More questions about fans!

[Cantii]

Y'all are probably getting sick of me and my fans by now... but I value your input :P

I'm looking for a rear exhaust fan for my Storm Sniper as I want to move the Blade Master that I have there right now back to its rightful place as a pull fan on my Hyper 212+. So with that, I decided to see if I could get a 140mm fan on there, but then I saw that it only has mounts for 120mm fans, and that made me very sad. Then, I found this: The Scythe Kaze Maru 2, a 140mm fan with 120mm mounts, which is like, ZOMG WANT. I've noticed that even a 120mm fan doesn't completely cover the exhaust grill (i.e. properly mounted, I can see the frame), so I'm thinking that this will completely cover the grill with little/no overlap and would also provide better exhaust for my Super Duper Positive Pressure rig.

So guys, whaddya think? Should I grab this, or look for another 120mm to put there? If you think the latter, I'm open to suggestions.

A pic of my airflow to help in understanding:



Even with all my fans, the thing is extremely quiet. So quiet, I can actually sleep with my computer on, now, and I'm an extremely light sleeper.

Thanks!

P.S. My Xigmatek 4-in-3 HDD cage arrives tomorrow... I can't wait

[Xuvial]

The rear grill is too small to take advantage of a 140mm. It only barely covers 120mm dimensions so with a 140mm you'll have an extra 10mm around the edges which are just blocked by...metal.

My suggestions for your super-duper-positive-pressure rig is to just slap an Ultra Kaze 1200-1800rpm on there (not sure if they come in PWM). Those 7 (or 9?) bladed fans are some of the highest performance fans on the market, and you need something like that since it's your only exhaust -_-

[BicycleMafioso]

You sure that top is intake btw? It should be exhaust.

[Sephiracle]

You sure that top is intake btw? It should be exhaust.

I mentioned that in the last time he had a fan question. Think he said that it somehow lowered his temps.

The rear grill is too small to take advantage of a 140mm. It only barely covers 120mm dimensions so with a 140mm you'll have an extra 10mm around the edges which are just blocked by...metal.

Even if he gets a larger fan that won't take full advantage because of the smaller grill, the fan will pull more air out at a lower RPM and less sound than a 120mm would.

[Cantii]

I mentioned that in the last time he had a fan question. Think he said that it somehow lowered his temps.



Even if he gets a larger fan that won't take full advantage because of the smaller grill, the fan will pull more air out at a lower RPM and less sound than a 120mm would.

With the positioning of the top 200mm fan on the Storm Sniper, it actually does it justice to have it as intake as it blows air directly down and into the cooler (if it's a tower cooler positioned front-to-back). Doing so has decreased my CPU temps significantly (2-3C drop instantly). You could say, "Well, it's best to have it as exhaust because heat rises." To that I say, "I have a bunch of fans. Heat goes where I tell it to go." My case has plenty exhaust, and this case was meant for high positive pressure (the damn thing is steel mesh, ffs, it's one massive dust filter ), and with the right fans and right configuration, unconventional setups work wonders.

However, depending on your case, your mileage may vary. If you had, say, a HAF X with two top 200mm fans, flipping the front top to intake will benefit it greatly. If you had an Antec Nine Hundred Two, the position of that top fan is in such a place where flipping it to be intake is a bad idea. With that, I leave you with this thread to read over.

For you, tetris

@Xuvial The Ultra Kaze is stupid loud (3000 RPM, 120x38) It's also something I would stick on my Hyper 212+ if I wasn't concerned about sound Though, what about the 120mm version of the Slip Stream? Or even an Aerocool Shark? As you can see, I'm trying to get the quietest air-cooled setup while not sacrificing performance. Though, I agree with Sephiracle that even though the grill itself is a little bit smaller, just the fact that the Kaze Maru 2 would be churning out the same amount, if not more, air at a lower speed would compensate for the grill... Let's brainstorm!

I've also read from quite a few places that just having no exhaust (and cutting out the grill itself) is actually better than having a fan there. Anyone ever tried this? I know the folks over at OCN have (I troll the air cooling section like crazy) and wondering about this myself.

Edit: My two NF-P12s are en route to me from Austria (had to RMA them, damn things were leaking), so I'll be replacing the 120mm on the HDD cage with that (that white LED with the orange fan is just fugly, plus I've read that it's pretty loud). So keep in mind I have 1 NF-P12 to play around with, though I might just keep it on the bottom.

[Milkshake86]

I mentioned that in the last time he had a fan question. Think he said that it somehow lowered his temps.



Even if he gets a larger fan that won't take full advantage because of the smaller grill, the fan will pull more air out at a lower RPM and less sound than a 120mm would.

Id have to say the airflow has to be aweful and any temps dropping w/ all intakes is more than likely superficial. As it stands now its just fresh air hitting any sensors causing what id assume to be inaccurate readings. Heat rise's and with a top intake your forcing it back down and with top and bottom intakes you are literally smashing the hot air into the middle.

I would personally stick to the mesh panel size in the back so if its 120mm stick with a 120, i would also change the top intake back to exhaust and let the air flow work as it was designed .

Front intake bottom intake, rear top exhaust making an up and back airflow away from GPU CPU etc.

[Cantii]

Id have to say the airflow has to be aweful and any temps dropping w/ all intakes is more than likely superficial. As it stands now its just fresh air hitting any sensors causing what id assume to be inaccurate readings. Heat rise's and with a top intake your forcing it back down and with top and bottom intakes you are literally smashing the hot air into the middle.

I would personally stick to the mesh panel size in the back so if its 120mm stick with a 120, i would also change the top intake back to exhaust and let the air flow work as it was designed .

Front intake bottom intake, rear top exhaust making an up and back airflow away from GPU CPU etc.

Heat rises when left alone, yes, but heat goes where ever you tell it to go otherwise. I have all PCI expansion slots open to allow air to flow freely as well as my PSU acting as exhaust, I push the air in the direction I want it to go, and it goes there, it's not a difficult concept. There have been arguments that it causes convection, but the convection is so minimal that there is no impact, especially since the air is being forced out anyway through other openings. Then again, heat rises at such a slow rate, it doesn't even matter anyway.

If anything, a top exhaust with a tower style CPU cooler with front-to-back orientation will only *take* air from the cooler, depending on where it's positioned. On something like an Antec 900, the top fan is positioned behind where the CPU cooler would be, so that being exhaust isn't a big deal, but when the top fan is mounted directly in front of the CPU cooler's intake, then there's definitely something to that. With this setup, the top fan sucks air down, giving the CPU cooler fresh, cool air to use instead of what's inside of the case, which if that air was left to its own devices (e.g. heat rising), then it's already warmed air and not doing anything other than feeding warm air to your CPU cooler.

As far as readings go, I seriously doubt any drop in temperature is "superficial" or merely the air itself causing inaccurate readings, especially when it comes to CPU temperatures. Merely flipping the top fan around to intake has caused CPU temperatures to drop significantly (confirmed not only by sensor readings but by physically touching the cooler while operating under full load and physically feeling a difference in temperature, same with the north and south bridge, even my GPU temperatures dropped a degree or two).

Since the link I'd posted didn't show up, here: http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling...g-warning.html

[Xuvial]

Nice read from OCN (as always).

Remember that 140mm fan that I had drawing in air from the bottom and it hardly had any effect on GPU temps? Well about a week ago I did more or less what that OCN guy has done - make the 140mm stand straight to be in line (angled slightly up) with my 200mm front intake. To be precise, the GPU's edge is practically RESTING on my fan keeping it steady. Yay, no more whiteboard-marker-support-stick for the GPU. I've also put my spare blademaster just under the DVD drive as an intake to balance out my 120mm+200mm exhausts. There's no fan mount there so I...err...just kinda pushed it into place till it stopped moving. Who says you need to secure fans with screws/etc, as long as it doesn't vibrate like crazy or get loose it's fine

The problem was that the 200mm wasn't blowing air hard enough (even with my HDD cage removed) for fresh air to reach the GTX580's air-hungry dual fans. So in theory, the 140mm fan's job is to greatly accelerate the air being taken in by the 200mm - and it works! Works far better than trying to take in air through the bottom. I'll post pics and some results when I get home

But I probably wouldn't do something messy like try to cut out my rear fan grill. Granted, all it does is hinder the rear fan's full performance. But for people like us who're running our CPU's with a SINGLE fan in push, the rear fan is needed to exhaust the air out. I would only agree with completely removing the rear fan + grill if you have a push-pull setup on the CPU, e.g. Hyper212 + 2x120mm's or a V6/V8/D14/etc.

edit: noob question, how do people get such a clean cut on their metal cases? I've never cut metal...or hell, even wood...(didn't take any workshop classes back in school, I stuck to science/math/etc). What tool(s) do they use? When I get the chance I want to make my CPU cut-out larger and possibly remove the rear fan grill.

[Cantii]

Nice read from OCN (as always).

Remember that 140mm fan that I had drawing in air from the bottom and it hardly had any effect on GPU temps? Well about a week ago I did more or less what that OCN guy has done - make the 140mm stand straight to be in line (angled slightly up) with my 200mm front intake. To be precise, the GPU's edge is practically RESTING on my fan keeping it steady. Yay, no more whiteboard-marker-support-stick for the GPU. I've also put my spare blademaster just under the DVD drive as an intake to balance out my 120mm+200mm exhausts. There's no fan mount there so I...err...just kinda pushed it into place till it stopped moving. Who says you need to secure fans with screws/etc, as long as it doesn't vibrate like crazy or get loose it's fine

The problem was that the 200mm wasn't blowing air hard enough (even with my HDD cage removed) for fresh air to reach the GTX580's air-hungry dual fans. So in theory, the 140mm fan's job is to greatly accelerate the air being taken in by the 200mm - and it works! Works far better than trying to take in air through the bottom. I'll post pics and some results when I get home

But I probably wouldn't do something messy like try to cut out my rear fan grill. Granted, all it does is hinder the rear fan's full performance. But for people like us who're running our CPU's with a SINGLE fan in push, the rear fan is needed to exhaust the air out. I would only agree with completely removing the rear fan + grill if you have a push-pull setup on the CPU, e.g. Hyper212 + 2x120mm's or a V6/V8/D14/etc.

edit: noob question, how do people get such a clean cut on their metal cases? I've never cut metal...or hell, even wood...(didn't take any workshop classes back in school, I stuck to science/math/etc). What tool(s) do they use? When I get the chance I want to make my CPU cut-out larger and possibly remove the rear fan grill.

I stalk on OCN all the time, I love finding those articles and ehume seems to have the brunt of them, good stuff.

That is definitely something I need to look in to, though, I've been contemplating putting a fan between my front intake and GPU to help streamline airflow. Maybe I'll do that with my new NF-P12s I'm getting from my RMA, though I think a 140mm would be better (I'm looking at the TY-140, now, as it has mounting holes for 120mm, if I can find it.. but from the looks of it, it's been discontinued, at least in the states So it may still just be the Kaze Maru 2). As far as securing fans in your 5.25" bays, you may want to try using "ziptie screws", they seem to work really well.

With getting that smooth, clean cut on metal cases, they use a Dremel tool and then file it or sand it to a smooth finish. I'm *definitely* thinking about removing my rear fan grill and just putting a fan there to optimize exhaust (I know, no fan is better, but I just want to keep dust out :P)

[Xuvial]

Here we go...



Benchmarks when I CBF.