Complexity/customization idea to MoP talent system

[Dami]

Since the expansion was announced officially "some" people have been complaining about the 5-year-old new WoW and about the talent system only suggesting to come back to the old one. My idea is that depending on the hability you have chosen you can choose between one (or two if blizzard were generous) of the options below. The arrows indicate from what chosen hability/ies you can choose an option.


http://imageshack.us/f/843/talentsm.png/




Summoning spells are only : shadowfiend, lightwell, psyfiend, and barrier

[Mazi]

The problem with this is that you're getting it right back into having too many "options" where 1 is mathematically going to be far better than another. I don't really see the point of this either. :/

[Umbra]

It seems unnecessarily complicated.

[Dami]

not really, most option-choosing depends in your way to play the game or the sirtuation for example in a boss that "makes everyone to jump" you may like to choose mass levitation instead of 5 sec 15% speed with fade

[Mazi]

We already have that option because we can change on a fight to fight basis. All you are doing is taking the new stuff they added and trying to turn it into the current talent tree we have >_>

[Dami]

what I tried to tdo is what blizzard said: active variuos options that depend on your way to play and not 4 not-changing anything extra talent ponits. So you actualy can construct different valid builds with an interesting mix of talents.

For example I can choose the following "build" : Psychic Scream-shadow fiend with fear, Phantasm - invisibility with fade, , From Daekness comes Light - healing with SW, Angelic Bulwark -15% shadow reflection, Power infusion - Mind Spike no longer consume Vampiric touch, Void of shift.

Or: Void tendrils- possibility of tramp/slow protection, Body and soul - fade movement increase, Archangel - Mind Flay jump, Desperate Preyes - 20% increase in the next spell, Serendipity- haste after summoing spell, Vampiric Dominance

[Purple]

While I like the new system at a base, I have to think Blizzard are being more than a little naive if they really think min-maxers won't figure out the most functional options for specific specializations/instances, resulting in the usual copying of builds. I think it'll be fun, but, at the end of the day numbers are still involved and numbers will always be crunched by this community, no matter how insignificant. That's not a bad thing in my mind though.

Still, while I do like it, it's not to say I don't have criticism. I do wish one of the level 60 options felt more Shadow. All the others have an option that either is Shadow themed or that has another Shadow related effect when in Shadowform. None of the level 60 options really evoke that theme. Not to say they aren't useful, it's just speaking from a purely Shadow viewpoint, I can't imagine any of them having a visual that mixed with Shadow (I even see Desperate Prayer kicking you out of Shadowform like the old days).

At least they'll all still have their uses, but, I like my Shadows visuals.

[[-Spiritus-]]

Because you'll be able to swap on the fly, the "min/max" changes from tier based to encounter based. When they talk about "cookie cutter," I think they mean "this is absolute best for any given situation under this release build." I think they're OK with "this is the absolute best for encounter A, while that is best for encounter B" in the same instance. While technically it's just a shift, I think it is one they are OK with calling "not cookie cutter."

[Deleted]

While I agree there will still be a 'best' for most situations, the thing I'm really happy about is it will require an amount of actual thought before going into the fight to decide which talents you really want, obviously some more so than others. And that you will be able to tell the 'good' players as they'll have the best utilities.

A huge amount of the 'this sucks' posts I read (thankfully most of the trolls are now banned, +1 mods!) all say that it's obvious which 6 talents to take and when I look at the preview I just don't see that at all. Maybe it's me over-thinking things but when I think of them regarding current Firelands fights I want all of them equally on nearly every boss

[Ultima]

Reading posts from Priests that I respect and know to be good players, I have found diversity in their choices. Not only from each other, but also from mine (they're wrong and I'm right, but that's not the point).

However, if this thread doesn't discuss the OP and such. I will have to close face and slam threads. If you want to discuss the "official" talent trees: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...t-Talent-Tiers

[Dami]

go on Übermensch, enlighten us

[Dakara]

It doesn't matter if talent trees have 71 points or 2 points, there will always be a "cookie cutter build" in terms of output.... unless those talents are merely utility and offer no DPS, healing or mitigation gains. But going with utility talents, there's no need for large trees.

Remember, most talents were "increase by X%" "ability costs less, does more" "reduced CD" etc etc. By building those into the specialization, all your left with is the utility options (some classes had a few floating utility pts, others didn't).

However, having looked over the classes applicable to me, I note that in some cases, there is still only 1 way to spec. But it's still early days.

[Deleted]

It doesn't matter if talent trees have 71 points or 2 points, there will always be a "cookie cutter build" in terms of output.... unless those talents are merely utility and offer no DPS, healing or mitigation gains. But going with utility talents, there's no need for large trees.

Remember, most talents were "increase by X%" "ability costs less, does more" "reduced CD" etc etc. By building those into the specialization, all your left with is the utility options (some classes had a few floating utility pts, others didn't).

However, having looked over the classes applicable to me, I note that in some cases, there is still only 1 way to spec. But it's still early days.

I'm not sure I share your view on this. Sure, there is always a danger that we get stuck in cookie cutter thinking, but from a look at the talents (still early days, might change, etc) I hope that the new encounters will be designed so that everyone has to be more responsible for their own survival and that CC/interrupts/self healing for the individual matters. At least I think that makes for more interesting game play. Although of course, it may also complicate raids for averate guilds with average players, since it adds complexity.

It's still early days and I have no idea how it's going to turn out in the end, but I hope that it will help to create flexibility to come up with creative strategies and not just "tank tanks, healer spam heals and DPS facenuke anything in sight". I can imagine encounters where Vow of Unity would be awesome, and some where Void shift would be better. Some where levitate speed would win, etc. I guess it will also depends who you are raiding with, what sort of other tanks/healers/DPS you have in your raid and what they can bring to the table. It seems almost possible to treat it as a big lego army where you can construct something whole from a lot of different pieces.