Combat looks very stiff

[ptwonline]

Having watched some of the very recent vids I agree that some of the animations look...off. They are definitely improved but some things still feel not quite right. Part of it is because the combat animations are primarily just the upper body and so the whole thing makes the body look off. Also, the running animation strikes me as a bit funny but I can't quite put my finger on why.

I am not too concerned though. It looks like the kind of thing that could be fixed with relatively minor tweaks to add some in-between animation sort of like what WoW did a couple of years back.

[Smitzelplix]

Well there is some validity to the statement about no auto-attack contributing to it. I think it's that combination with the global cooldown that can make it...not as smooth. There are a lot of other games out there that don't have auto-attack and the combat looks fine, but I don't recall them having a global cooldown to make it appear as if your characters is not doing anything in between attacks.

The whole looking like your characters aren't doing anything does seem to smooth out quite a bit when there's a more seasoned player behind the keyboard and they have many abilities at their disposal. Again I point to the same video I posted on the front page of this topic, it doesn't seem like there is any of that downtime that you mention, which I have seen myself as well, also in this video each attack seems to transition into the next quite smoothly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT4cLHU3Yd0

[Drifted]

Actually, he didn't instantly attack him on a personal level. He addressed the "valid point" with "Right because that have anything to do with auto-attack" and then revealed the ulterior motives of pro-wow anti-everythingelse fanboyism. If it isn't appropriate to call people out on their BS, then what is okay to you?

Outright dissing the idea with no explanation that having no auto attacks could have jack shit to do with the clunky feeling of combat animation. And after that moving to "You are snotty faced WoW elitist" wildcard. Fair enough the original argument wasn't exactly the pinnacle of intelligence but still.

Should we completely ignore people's "valid points" because we know they're just rancoring? Or should we just continue to address the same insanity and rancoring that has happened and will continue to happen? Personally, I'd rather cut it down at the root and move on than endure endless bickering and rancoring. Fair enough?

Of course not. Someone throws shit into my face or tries to clearly troll me I use that "Report Post" button.

And while you're definitely entitled to your opinion, I'm failing to understand why you're coming in here to white knight for someone whose sole purpose was to come and flame a game neither they nor you have any interest in. The funny thing about you defending him is I've looked through your post history and it looks like you are exactly the same way. I'm loving reading through your comments in other threads that clearly elicit your true feelings about this game. Now, pray tell me, what drew you to this thread?

Recent posts on main page I think it was. Thought it was WoW forum post. Reason I continued reading this and ended up commenting was that clunky and stiff combat animation is one of my dislike reasons. So it pigued my interests what other people feelings were.

I checked out my post history's newest 4 pages. With fast skimming I found one comment about TOR and it was more about overzealous fan boys shouting how everything else is shit and TOR will be new messiah. So I'm not exactly stalking TOR forums dissing this game in every turn. Also I don't have habit of checking every poster's history before quoting them. Joenano's comment didn't seem too flamy or troll seeking. If he was indeed purely trolling then he can go and jump off the balcony for all I care. But he still had a valid point. No auto attacks make it look like really clunky and it doesn't please me aesthetically at all.

Even if I'm reserved towards TOR and might whine about it's flaws doesn't mean I don't have any interests to it. I have exactly the same rights to comment about it's flaws in this thread as next person got rights to praise it.

[LoLHellcy]

I found that no matter how smooth/stiff combat looks on video's it's never a real indication how it will feel in game. I do agree with you that "it's the key to the right feeling of your character" and in the end it's a deal breaker for me.

its the only reason i prefer wow to rift tbh....

i've heard good things about SWTOR, i hope it has good, reactive character animations.

[-aiko-]

Remember kids, beta =/= free trial. You're playing to give them feedback on things to change, not to test out the final product. Things are changing really quickly now that we're a month and a half away.

[Meleti]

Remember kids, beta =/= free trial. You're playing to give them feedback on things to change, not to test out the final product. Things are changing really quickly now that we're a month and a half away.

And reworking combat animations entirely is not likely to be one of those changes.

[oplawlz]

This is how all games without autoattack feel to me, very stilted. I definitely don't get that "I'm an elite warrior" feel in the swtor beta, even as a jedi with their fancy animations.

[Morbownz]

One thing I dont think I have seen on any SWTOR beta vid is people using jump in PvP, clever movement can be a big factor in PvP success as it can help deal and avoid damage... I imagine jumping during PvP combat in other games has become second nature to alot of gamers, it has to me.

[Valeron]

The combat is supposed to be choreographed right? I think that is why there is a gcd so that there is no conflict with animations. I surmise that this is why there isn't an auto attack either.

The combat animation doesn't root you in place once you have selected an ability does it? That drove me nuts in Aion.

[oplawlz]

The combat is supposed to be choreographed right? I think that is why there is a gcd so that there is no conflict with animations. I surmise that this is why there isn't an auto attack either.

The combat animation doesn't root you in place once you have selected an ability does it? That drove me nuts in Aion.

Nah, it doesnt lock you down like Aion.

One thing I dont think I have seen on any SWTOR beta vid is people using jump in PvP, clever movement can be a big factor in PvP success as it can help deal and avoid damage... I imagine jumping during PvP combat in other games has become second nature to alot of gamers, it has to me.

Jump works the same way in swtor as it does in wow, no worries there

[Deleted]

loool I see gcd being mentioned here, wtf is the problem with that? 90% of all the abilites for the wow classes have em, 1.5 sec gcd except dk/rogue. Same shit in swtor, 1.5 sec, hows that a problem?

[Bulwarked]

Anyone have a clip of character's just running in place or just running in general. I'd love to take a look at the animations. I'm going to be picking up swotr, just like most of my friends, but haven't really looked into the animation much. Which is surprising, I generally like looking at these things. I've been studying 3D character animation for over a year now and I'm studying body mechanics more specifically right now which this subject falls right into place. Sorry if there have been videos linked already I'm just in a bit of a rush since I've got work in under an hour. Thanks!

[Alatian]

It's a Bioware game. Bioware are pretty notorious for having bad animations.

With that said, the animations are kind of hit and miss for me. Sometimes, they look really good. For example, in the BH vs Jedi Knight trailer, where the Jedi Knight throws his saber, catches it, twirls it around once, and then force leaps. That looked really cool. Other times, it looks very stiff. In particular, the running and shooting animations (especially with one pistol) look odd.

Stop giving ancedotes of your beta experiences.
Stop breaking the NDA.

(This is in regards to every thread on this site, not just this thread)

---------- Post added 2011-10-30 at 06:58 AM ----------

For people that played in old beta builds, or watch old videos, yes, you will see clunky things. When I played it at PAX, I felt it was smooth as butter.

As said, the videos do the game no justice. It's one of those games that you need to put a little time on to start loving it.

Animations and stiff looking movement is in the eye of the beholder. To me personally, it's beautiful. To others, it's not. I look at other games that other people feel are superb in this department, and I see clunky things. I see WoW as disguising their poor animations by adding spins and flashing lights. Same with GW2. I've seen videos that show bad players hitting the same button 10 times. It makes it look boring and clunky. I see Tera in the same light. All the moves are over the top and just silly. Many people will whole heartedly disagree with those statements. That's because it's personal, like beauty.

You've yet to see "good" players play TOR. You've yet to see high level characters with more than a couple abilities so anything more than stand still and hit a boss. If you want to really compare what you are seeing to another game, compare it by level. All the low level TOR videos compared to other games at low level are not even comparable in my eyes. It's like night and day.

I can't understand the comments about not flinching when taking damage, yet in the same thought, comparing it to WoW's combat. I don't see their characters flinching either. I don't see that in many games actually. Or if they do, it's not realistic enough to matter. If they get hit in the side, they don't recoil the correct way for it. If they get knifed in the hamstring, they don't lurch and fall down. Etc etc. Don't put this game on a pedestal to complain at when the games you are comparing to are not doing the same things you are complaining about.

To be fair, other games like WoW, GW2 and Tera can't do the subtle, nuanced animations of Swtor.

WoW is on a 7 year old engine. I don't think their moves are particularly flashy: what makes the combat is ease of movement and auto attacks. Auto attacks allow combat to seem way more active then they actually are. This might be why we see complaints about ToR combat.

GW2 and Tera need flashy abilities because they're action based. If I see a Guardian power up an attack that'll send me flying, I need to know which direction to dodge. Players in action orientated games need large, obvious abilities because otherwise dodging would be useless. I actually like the animations in both those games quite a bit (even though I don't particularly care for Tera), but as you said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[Klur]

What bothers me is the movement, or lack there of, in the vids, even the one linked on the first page. I know the vids are to showcase the warzone, but it still kind of throws me when everyone just stands there trading blows. And that scares me, because if there's one thing good about WoW it's that it's simple animations don't really get in the way of movement. Sure, hunters laying traps while running can look awkward, but for the most part the animation's are pretty smooth. SWTOR has much more complicated animations and I'm wondering how they'll look when players are actually running around like they most certainly will in pvp.

This seems to be a common problem in mmo's. It seems like the animators and designers think people will just run up to each other and just spam abilities, and the way animations become disjointed by player movement really hurts the gameplay for me.

[zealous]

Bioware are pretty notorious for having bad animations.

I've been playing their games for 10+ years and I have yet to see any of their animations fall short of the standards of the time the games are released in.

I've played each BW game except Jade Empire and nothing by way of sub-par animations ever caught my eye, ever.

I think bold statements like "they are pretty notorious for having bad animations" aren't really appropriate when it's your personal opinion. Mine differs and I've never heard any such complaints from any of my friends or WoW guildies, most of which have played at least both parts of DA and ME.

You're not exactly an ideal analytical machine, if you excuse my saying so.

So perhaps you'd use phrases like "I didn't like the animations in *insert game here*" rather than statements like "they're notorious for" that seem to hint you posses some kind of generally accepted data.

What bothers me is the movement, or lack there of, in the vids

Believe me, those are just bad videos in the sense that the players are bad, not the mechanics/animations. I've seen in-game beta footage and it's NOTHING like that.

Look at this vid for example, it's TB playing at a gaming convention. It's from an old build meaning the animations and graphics have improved a lot since then, but it shows that combat is really dynamic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luKyn...layer_embedded

Watch this and you will see just how badly the promo trailers represent the combat in the game. Even with NO keybinds which slows PvP down considerably, the combat in this vid looks very dynamic to me.

(Watch at least half of the vid, the beginning is kind of slow and the guy runs ninjaing nodes a lot at first, more than actually fighting people).

[Raeli]

And reworking combat animations entirely is not likely to be one of those changes.

I should point out that this Game Testing isn't your typical Beta, even without breaking NDA you can see some of the major changes they're making just between conventions that are only a few weeks apart. The game is clearly becoming far more refined and complete, but there is still a good month at least until the servers launch, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a patch before the end of January with a massive amount of changes after they get data from the general populace.

[zealous]

I should point out that this Game Testing isn't your typical Beta, even without breaking NDA you can see some of the major changes they're making just between conventions that are only a few weeks apart. The game is clearly becoming far more refined and complete, but there is still a good month at least until the servers launch, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a patch before the end of January with a massive amount of changes after they get data from the general populace.

There are rumors that the last patch brought in a massive animations upgrade. Don't know how true those rumors are ofc.

[Tore]

Ooh, I've thought of something I can add that doesn't break NDA.

Most of what any non-beta participants have seen has been low level content. You have precious few abilities in low levels which means you have yet to witness multiple abilities strung together as what occurs in higher levels. The combat animations are quite dynamic in terms of defensive and offensive motions and meld together quite seamlessly once you have a sufficient amount of them. You can see some of what I'm talking about in the level 25 Tatooine (legal) convention videos.

Another reason for possibly looking stiff in the videos is that the characters appear to lack any kind of idle combat animation that takes place between abilities and blocks. That might be something bioware can look into to fill those empty spots that make it seem jumpy and stiff.

I understand where people are coming from though. The official Bioware videos, even at higher levels, make the animations look very sporadic and kind of non-fluid. I'd like to give specifics about how those animations look in-game, but I can't. There is a beta and I am in it--all I can say.

[Cakka]

Ooh, I've thought of something I can add that doesn't break NDA.

Most of what any non-beta participants have seen has been low level content. You have precious few abilities in low levels which means you have yet to witness multiple abilities strung together as what occurs in higher levels. The combat animations are quite dynamic in terms of defensive and offensive motions and meld together quite seamlessly once you have a sufficient amount of them. You can see some of what I'm talking about in the level 25 Tatooine (legal) convention videos.

Another reason for possibly looking stiff in the videos is that the characters appear to lack any kind of idle combat animation that takes place between abilities and blocks. That might be something bioware can look into to fill those empty spots that make it seem jumpy and stiff.

I understand where people are coming from though. The official Bioware videos, even at higher levels, make the animations look very sporadic and kind of non-fluid. I'd like to give specifics about how those animations look in-game, but I can't. There is a beta and I am in it--all I can say.

Get off your high horse, I'm pretty sure everyone here who has even the slightest interest in this game has seen lot more than the official BW videos.

[Nihilim]

Get off your high horse, I'm pretty sure everyone here who has even the slightest interest in this game has seen lot more than the official BW videos.

Not sure if you have said the combat is stiff, but if you have AND you have indeed seen more than official BW videos, you surely would've seen how combat is NOT stiff nor clunky.