View Poll Results: Friend Right Or Wrong?

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Holyshnikies View Post
    Friend says healing meter doesn't matter for disc priest.

    I dont know whether its him being arrogant or if this is true.

    Long story short. Im in all 353/359 gear in firelands. Was on a boss fight. Only did 6.1% overhealing yet #1 in healing.

    I was mainly healing both tanks and myself if I took damage.

    But besides that, he said in general that disc healing doesnt matter on the meters. Yet I disagree see as how im generally a tank healer and dont heal the raid unless i have the mana to spare or time. Yet, the other classes are on raid heals and random heals on the tanks.

    What do you guys think?

    Your friend is actually slightly wrong:

    Healing meter doesn't matter for ANY healer.

    There are a few fights where raw healing output will tell you a lot about how the healer did. However, for most fights the healing meter doesn't tell you enough to adequately say X healer did better than Y healer. There's class mechanics to take into account and within the class there are haste caps and playstyles that could drastically change healing numbers. One healer might be blanket healing while another is spot healing spike damage. Often the blanket healer will do more HPS, but the spike healer is just as important to keeping the raid alive. Unless there are GLARING differences in healing (Like triple the healing of someone else of the same class/given the same job) then don't rely on meters to guage your healers. A good raid leader can easily tell who's doing their job better without Recount anyways; Though it can be a useful tool to help pick out specifics.
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  2. #42
    He's wrong about the "disc priest" things. If you really want to read the meters, then it's equally accurate for every healer. Shields DO show up on meters.

    But as already pointed, healing meters don't really means anything as long as the boss die.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombpanda View Post
    If people are avoiding everything they can avoid, and they are dieing, healer is not healing enough.
    If people are living, healer is doing their job correctly.

    Especially in a raid setting, Healing Meters are pretty useless in my opinion except for joking around with your fellow healers. Just because Healer 1 has a higher HPS than Healer 2, it doesn't mean someone isn't doing their job/their best (unless people are dieing).
    Are you kidding? I do not think you are even a healer. The meters may not matter as much as they are made out to be, but they do not lie. I am a resto druid running HM 10's 5/7 with a pally and a priest most of the time and at the end of the fights i am consistently 2+ million above the other two with less over heals. That being said, meters have all kinds of interesting stats that mean a lot of very important things, so anyone that thinks they are irrelevant is either just bad or is just trolling this thread.

  4. #44
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Gothenburg, Sweden
    Worldoflogs matters, what healing you do compared to other classes in your own raid doesn't matter, what healing you do compared to other people of the same class doing the same job matters.

    And btw, people saying "IM HOLY PALA, I HEAL TANKS STILL TOP EVEN THO NO RAID HEAL" does not matter the slightest, it means you play with shit people.

    To answer the question, they do matter. A boss dying means the healing was good enough, but there could still be really bad people healing that got carried and they don't deserve their raidspot.
    Last edited by Heathern; 2011-10-31 at 04:57 PM.

  5. #45
    As many have said. Healing meters are crap and should be removed from addons.

    A Paladin WILL overheal alot with beacon + zillion healing crits. It's all about who dies, and who were suppose to keep him/her alive. If it was the healers fault or the DPS fault.

    If no tank dies, if no DPS dies, if no healer dies. You've done well. If people start dying, you need to discuss what went wrong, and don't use meters.

    It really doesn't apply the same for DPS.
    If 10 DPS just can stand there dealing their dmg for the entire fight without much to think of, and someone is 5-6k lower then everyone else.. It's pretty easier to tell he's slacking.
    DPS usually only have one job, kill the boss. On some fights some guy might kite or handle adds.
    But do you really say: "Oh god you sucked because you only did 50% of our DMG even if you did your job excellent with kiting!"? No you don't.
    Do you say "Lol Paladin I healed 2x more than you even though you kept the tanks up and we all did our part perfect!"?.. No you dont.

  6. #46
    Alright, healing meters don't matter, blah. I agree.

    when you top the meters as Disc priest, you can just think "yeah disc priest is good on that fight", then you do the fight again as resto sham, holy pal and are STILL ahead of the priest disc you're healing with...then you can compare.

  7. #47
    Field Marshal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyshnikies View Post
    Friend says healing meter doesn't matter for disc priest.
    I dont know whether its him being arrogant or if this is true.
    He's right to some point. Healers don't use meters to show who's the best simply by looking at who's rocking the #1 spot up top. You use it to see if he's healing his assigned targets and if he is using the right spells (situational)

    Quote Originally Posted by Holyshnikies View Post
    Long story short. Im in all 353/359 gear in firelands. Was on a boss fight. Only did 6.1% overhealing yet #1 in healing.
    Off Topic; I think this is you being arrogant now..
    OT; Disc priests barely do any overhealing; your "healing done" is mostly done by absorbs and mutigation and shields snipe a lot of healing. Explanation: You put a shield on the MT. MT takes big hit; the whole shield is used and you got credit. Since you were assigned as tank healer there is a good chance you top the rest with a heal. The other healers did good leaving that for you as they don't need to waste mana on a target that isn't their assignment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holyshnikies View Post
    I was mainly healing both tanks and myself if I took damage.
    You did as you where supposed to, but how about them? You are giving us irrelevant info here, you could've said "and the guy assigned to raid had #1 on my target (the tanks) as well" <- that would be questionable but still usually not worth looking deeper into. Tanks take more damage than the average raider. You need to compare Tank 1 with 50% of the dps fx.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holyshnikies View Post
    But besides that, he said in general that disc healing doesnt matter on the meters. Yet I disagree see as how im generally a tank healer and dont heal the raid unless i have the mana to spare or time. Yet, the other classes are on raid heals and random heals on the tanks.
    You say "the others". I'm assuming you were running with 3 healers and that they were two healers sharing the raid healing. Did you put their healing together and compared to yours? I'm guessing if you did you would see it was fairly balanced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holyshnikies View Post
    What do you guys think?
    I think you should refrain from using healing meters. There is no point to use it unless you wipe over and over and that it's clearly the healing that is the problem. Then you look at if people are healing their assignments, then if they are struggling with mana, then you look damage taken to see if people are "standing in the fire" and THEN you can if you really have to; look at HPS spikes on WoL. Recount/skada cannot show you how the healers were doing when the boss did crazy dmg, they give avarage (which is useless, people don't die to average damage).

    I hope this helps you and your friend.

    I forgot to mention; Addons suffer from range/bad sync along with other wierd stuff. Maybe there's a talent that isn't calculated right or the combat log isn't being processed right. There's only so much an AddOn can do.
    People survived? You didn't wipe? Healers did their job. As for who is carrying? Try stop healing for a couple of seconds and see if things turns to chaos lol.
    Last edited by Tmannen; 2011-10-31 at 05:19 PM.

  8. #48
    Warchief Viscoe's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Bluebell Town
    The only meter that should matter to healers, in my opinion, is the DeathCount addition to Recount (dunno if Skada has a counterpart because I don't use it.)

    As a raid leader (though a DPS) I have found infinite use out of DeathCount - "Oh you died because you were on the wrong side of Ony; oh you died because you didn't receive any healing for 9 seconds" etc
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  9. #49
    Here is the thing.

    Healing meters doesn't matter to see who is the best healer.

    Healing meters matter to things like:

    If one of your healers is too low and you are killing the boss, you have two options, you could do the boss with one less healer (although it is not mandatory) and that healer is at the bottom simply because there is little to heal or that healer should improve his healing because its been carried (but remeber certain classes have less hps thoughput than others).

    If one of your healers is low and people in the raid are dying, then that healer is underperforming and should improve.

  10. #50
    Healing meters ARE important, but you can't just look at the raw numbers and base all your opinions on a healer's effectiveness on them.

    That would be like looking at DPS numbers and not taking into account fight mechanics that can sway numbers (fury warriors cleaving & WW on Marrowgar or DBS back in ICC, for example).

    Healing meters are a helpful GUIDE to determining a healer's effectiveness, you just need to have some basic understanding of all the healing specs/classes and how they heal the fight. Saying "lol, the boss is dead, problem?" is a woefully unacceptable way to judge healer effectiveness. Healing meters coupled with overhealing done is a good way to see who is performing and who is being carried.

    Saying healing meters don't matter is wrong. Judging healer effectiveness by only looking at meters is also wrong.

  11. #51
    Healing meters are relevant when comparing two people doing the same job on the same fight, sometimes.

    If two people are doing raid healing, and the raid is generally at full, healing meters MIGHT be able to tell you which of the raid healers is faster on the draw, or it might tell you who has better spell selection. It also might just tell you which class is better (disc is going to be better, especially in the case where there's predictable raid damage and they can preshield, shaman will be better when they can get max use of chain heal and only a handful of people take damage, etc), or it might just not tell anything really. If the raid is down at half the whole fight, then healing meters will tell you which healer is pulling more weight, and in that very specific instance, it's helpful.

    So healing meters aren't completely useless all of the time, but they're not helpful very often. As others have mentioned, logs are far more helpful.

  12. #52
    Field Marshal Zenchi's Avatar
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    No, me and a pally healer once did 12k HPS on Halfus normal, because we had to thanks to no avoiding and a severely undergeared tank. But on Shanoxx HC I did no more then 7k because people were avoiding stuff and I was surrounded by excellent healers.

    I used to have a guild leader who thought HPS worked like DPS, I had do alot of useless healing because I wasn't getting my healer cape if I wasn't doing enough HPS.

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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    I am not sure if it is possible to be more wrong than this when it comes to healing. DPS trying as hard as they can to top meters is generally bad, as they will probably be more focused on how much DPS they are doing than the mechanics of the fight. A healer focusing on topping meters will very likely cause a wipe. Any healer can top healing meters whenever they want to. The drawback is that they will probably be OOM for most of the fight. Healing smart and doing your assigned job is always 100% more important than the actual HPS you are putting out.
    This De Coubertin-ish way really doesn't suit me.

    A healer focusing on topping meters how can go OOM? Hope you (or betther, the most) don't mean "topping the meters for a while"...because my way of topping is at the end of fight coming out with a BIG parse.

    And there's no f*****g way a healer whos gonna do this will cause a wipe. Very likely it will carry you on a better progression.

    Doing the healing job is simple: Do not fail on encounter mechanics and HEAL. No matter how u want lie yourself around by sayin' "job here job there smart bla bla". Holding back because its not "smart healing" is awfull, given the current stage of gear and mana issues, wich are almost none for 3 specs out of 5.
    Seeing healers ending the fight with 50% more mana is disgusting.

    On your next boss, when'll end up saving 25, 30% of mana just ask yourself this question: "could i have healed more ?" If the answer yes then you actually have some room to improve.

    Edit to clarify:

    As i said, it's not important, it depends on yourself.
    You want just to make you C grade job, then go on.
    For me, and i'm DEAD SURE its the same for every healers in very top-end guilds(wich is not my guild), a simple C grade job its not what i want.
    I go for the A-grade job, i don't wanna look at the recount, once the boss is dead and have the feeling of beeing carried. I aim on looking at the parse and sayin' "ok i was really there and i seriously put up something more then a Barrier and a HoH".

    It's a personal choice. The most won't agree with this, but for those who do, don't get fooled and squeeze everything you can if u feel that way.
    Last edited by Purpleisbetter; 2011-10-31 at 07:54 PM.

  14. #54
    healing meters mean jack squat 'long as you're defeating the boss. In a 10man scenario you can almost solo heal all the fights just with divine aegis from PoH so usually you're on top of the charts. in pugs meters would be the only reason to use them unless you're flexing your e-peen with your core raid.(who doesn't) but logs are defiantly the way to go if you wanna see where your healers are at in the raid.

  15. #55
    Healing meters don't mean anything. It just shows how much healing you did, but you can be number one in heals and still wipe. As long as everyone lives and does their and you don't oom too fast, you did your job as a healer.
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  16. #56
    Blademaster dragtch9's Avatar
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    May 2010
    Sacramento, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by stuntz View Post
    Healing meters are very situational.

    Take heroic rhyolith for example.

    Some weeks our healers pull 6-9k hps on the fight and heal it easily. Other weeks they're 15k+ and dps are falling over from standing in crap.

    Odds are, if healers are healing higher than average, than the raid is likely taking higher than average damage. It's all relative.
    This is a fantastic example, I think. On our first H Rhyo kill, I did something like 11k HPS as a resto druid, and this was with a lot of overhealing. On all of our failed attempts, I would sit at around 18k HPS with very little overhealing, just because so much was wrong with the attempts.

  17. #57
    Healing meters meens nothing if ppl dont die - but if ppl start dieng and the meter shows that healer A healed for 50% of healer B then its a usefull tool to find out who is not pulling their weight.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by dragtch9 View Post
    This is a fantastic example, I think. On our first H Rhyo kill, I did something like 11k HPS as a resto druid, and this was with a lot of overhealing. On all of our failed attempts, I would sit at around 18k HPS with very little overhealing, just because so much was wrong with the attempts.
    Rhyo is a good example of RNG, if volcano's keeps spawning on the other side of the room than healers will be very busy and get higher HPS. If ur lucky and volcano's spawning in rhyo's path most of the time than u see low HPS compare this last case with a Druid healer in ur team than most likely the other healer is alot lower in hps.

    There's no other fight like this in FL.

    But Healing meters says a few things, my healing meter only shows up after combat and that allows me to see the HPS after the fight. It shows me if the raid took more damage than usual or if the raid took lesser damage than usual. Higher hps than normal often means people slack on avoidance, easy to check with the damage taken tab. As read leader / gm its my job to tell people to move more or tell gj on the movement.

    I do only 10mans and if one of the other healer is unusually low on the meter than theres a chance thats something is wrong with the connection or the Damage Taken meter is extremly low. If the Damage Taken is normal than i will whisper him to ask if he's lagging a bit.

    If im lower on HPS than normal ill look quick on why without going to WoL, but never use the healing meters to show off or tell people that they suck as thats not the use of the healing meter imo.

    If the boss dies in the end nobody cares about the healing meter anyways, as they all go OMG i pulled xxk amount of dps in 9/10 times.
    Its a tool incombination with damage taken to see if either the raid did well or the raid were slacking nothing more nothing less
    Last edited by DerrHans; 2011-11-01 at 12:38 PM.

  19. #59
    The Patient Madam's Avatar
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    Jul 2010
    Just for the fun of it, let's compare cooldowns for a moment. Since the beginning of Cata, we have seen many Holy Priests switch to Disc because of Barrier, yet PW:B doesn't show up on any meter, same with PS. If meters mattered why all the unhappy Holy Priests?
    Now let's look at the Druid, they have Tranquility and when timed correctly have huge healing spikes that DO show up on the meter/logs. Why not just stack all Resto Druids and call it a day?
    On Baleroc, the healer that heals the fist spark has to be a Healing God, just look at those healing numbers, am I right?

    When raiding, meters and logs should be used as a learning tool, analyze the good and bad. Many enjoy competing for top spots, let them it is just human nature.

  20. #60
    If you are healing 3/10ths of the raid then it doesnt matter if your #1 on the healing meters, you arent relevant to the entire fight. Its a waste not having a disc priest aoe heal as they have Divine Aegis and POM. If everyone lives the meters don't matter, but at the same time it sounds like you came here fishing for compliments. Doing your job is its own reward.

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