State of Holy Paladin on 4.3 PTR

[Nightsalt]

I must make several comments to the upcoming changes. To be noted that I am a PvE Holy Palladian and this will only be from that point of view. I know that PvP will have its own set of concerns.

1. Holy radiance with the 3 second cast time also seems a bit long as it is coming from an instance cast. The nice thing about the 4.0 holy radiance was that we could use a group heal while moving and that we knew exactly where the epicenter of the spell would be. Something else that I would like to add about this is the fact that there is no CD on the spell is very nice but the mana cost will prevent us from using this spell this spell too often. Even more now that Blizzard has increased the cost of this spell from 30 percent of base mana to 35 percent of base mana.

“Holy Radiance now has a 3.0-second cast time, no cooldown, and requires a player target. That target is imbued with Holy Radiance, which heals them and all group members within 10 yards instantly, and continues to heal them by a smaller amount every 1 second for 3 seconds.”

2. Now let’s talk about protector of the innocent through Beacon of Light. As it sits you can choose to put 3/3 talent points into this talent to increase the amount that this would heal the caster thus transferring ½ of that to the beacon target. While blizzard will still allow this spell to heal the caster but with 4.3 this will no longer transfer any of this heal to the beaconed target.

“Beacon of Light is triggered by Word of Glory, Holy Shock, Flash of Light, Divine Light and Light of Dawn at 50% transference and Holy Light at 100% transference. It does not transfer Holy Radiance, Protector of the Innocent or other sources of healing.”.

3. Light of dawn currently affects 5 targets and we can glyph into this to effect 6 targets. This spell is going to be changed in 4.3 to always affect 6 targets but we may now glyph this spell to only affect 4 targets but the 4 targets will receive a 25% increase. (I am going to use 100 healing for easy math) So 6 targets at 100 equals 600 and 4 targets at 125 equals 500.

“Light of Dawn now affects 6 targets (base effect), up from 5.” “Glyph of Light of Dawn now lowers the number of targets to 4, instead of increasing targets to 6, but increases healing by 25%.”

4. This next topic I am going to bring up will spark a lot of discussion but I feel that it must be brought up. As it sits now we may judge every 8 seconds giving us 15 percent of base mana. With the new change Blizzard is getting rid of the current system and only making us judge once every 60 seconds to keep up a new style of mana regeneration. This is nice in the fact that it will free up global cooldowns but we will be losing mana regeneration. I have played with this on the PTR and from what I can see it will be reducing our current mana regeneration by approximately 15 to 20 percent.

“In addition to providing haste, the effect from Judgements of the Pure now increases mana regeneration from Spirit by 10/20/30% for 60 seconds.” “Seal of Insight, when Judged, no longer returns 15% base mana to the paladin. Judging Seal of Insight still causes damage, and melee attacks will still restore 4% of base mana.”
Please feel free to discuss this among ourselves. I would like to add that if I have something wrong please correct me but don’t blast me. Thank you.

[Pasture]

^ It's been proven a lot of times on these and other forums that the judgement change is a buff unless you have gone out of your way to avoid spirit. If, like many Paladins, you pick up as much spirit as possible, then these judgement changes are a huge mana regeneration buff. Not having to waste a global cooldown every 10 seconds probably offsets the loss of throughput cause by PotI not transferring through beacon any more. LoD change is a buff.

The main thing to be concerned about is the new HR. We can't assist on the raid while tank healing as we used to. As such, if we're dedicated tank healers we will probably see our hps drop since we can't invest time on the raid without beacon transfer. As dedicated raid healers we will probably see our hps increase.

[Tatsu]

^ It's been proven a lot of times on these and other forums that the judgement change is a buff unless you have gone out of your way to avoid spirit. If, like many Paladins, you pick up as much spirit as possible, then these judgement changes are a huge mana regeneration buff. Not having to waste a global cooldown every 10 seconds probably offsets the loss of throughput cause by PotI not transferring through beacon any more. LoD change is a buff.

The main thing to be concerned about is the new HR. We can't assist on the raid while tank healing as we used to. As such, if we're dedicated tank healers we will probably see our hps drop since we can't invest time on the raid without beacon transfer. As dedicated raid healers we will probably see our hps increase.

The way it looks now with HR when the raid is stacked we will be better raid healers than other classes and they should be on tanks during stack up phases.

[Emaias]

Intellect>Spiri>>Mastery to ~2k>Haste to ~1k>>More haste??>>crit
I have a post up about the stat priority and through all of the collaboration (I use that term LOOSELY at best) and all the testing I've done on my own I can safely say that the stat priority above is pretty damn accurate come 4.3. A lot of people really don't agree, but then again they haven't tested my methods in a raid, though I have no proof I can assure you I'm not trying to corrupt all that is and ever will be, Holy Paladins.

Where in gods name did you get these numbers? Decided that 1k and 2k were pretty round numbers and went from there?

[Erous]

My holy paladin is OP on the PTR. I love the new Holy Radiance changes and I kind of miss them on live right now

[Deleted]

Please feel free to discuss this among ourselves. I would like to add that if I have something wrong please correct me but don’t blast me. Thank you.

1. 3 seconds cast? have you played on the PTR or just reading the patch notes ?

With talents it comes down to 2,5s cast. With realy basic gear with not-so-high Haste you turn this down to ~2,2s. With the 100% uptime Judgements of the pure buff you get this down to ~2,0s. Not counting the infusion of light procs that makes it 1,something seconds, nor counting any kind of Haste from essencial raid buffs like the 3% haste buff.



2. Protector of the inocent Beacon transfer has a realy large overhealing component. Yes its a nerf, and i understand that, but quite honestly if you count out the overhealing done, this can amount to a 4-5% effective healing nerf, tops.


3. The whole idea of the light of dawn glyph is that if you are in a 5 men group or (perhaps) 10 men group, the glyph is useful, if you are in a 25 men group the glyph is useless. Blizzard already stated they wanted major glyphs to be a choice, with a good side and a bad side for each situation.

In a 5 men group its a no brainer that you rarely have 5 people in front of you so the glyph is awesome. In a 10 men group, in most fights you have, in some you don't.
Seems clear that blizzard wants the LOD glyph to be useable in 5 men and BGs pvp situations only (to convince pvpers to actualy spec for LOD), with perhaps a few 10 men encounters.



4. This is untrue. If you played with a holy paladin on the PTR that is not on a pure PVP gear (you probably did if you see a 15-20% mana regen nerf), you would see that the mana regen is basicaly the same or even a little higher than in 4.2 with 378 PVE gear.

One other misconception is that people state they judge for mana every 8 seconds, wich is a blatant lie. Healing any kind of hard content you can't simply aford to judge every 8 seconds as clockwork. You cast instant cast spells with 1,5s GCD, you cast spells that are 2,0s cast for main tank healing, you can't simply say that you ALWAYS judge on every cooldown available. If you said 10-12 seconds on average, i would agree perhaps.


I've played for hours and hours and hours in the PTR and quite frankly the 4.3 PVE holy paladin is much stronger (imho ofc)

Holy radiance is fine. 4.2 holy radiance would heal as an AOE heal with 20s cooldown and have a 1,5s cast time (Global cooldown is still downtime!), the 4.3 has 0,5s extra "downtime" in casting time, but gives you access to more light of dawn heals due to giving holy power, and gives you a CHOICE if you can keep using it or revert to tank healing.


I personaly think that the 4.3 holy radiance is worse in 5 men (but LOD glyph helps in AOE healing), is a slight improvement in 10 men and its a huge buff in 25 men (yes, even with the soft-cap)

[Bostonian]

I personaly think that the 4.3 holy radiance is worse in 5 men (but LOD glyph helps in AOE healing), is a slight improvement in 10 men and its a huge buff in 25 men (yes, even with the soft-cap)

Hmm, and I thought it was the other way around. It thought a 10 sec HoT when people are stacked in 25 man would make Holy Radiance better. Do you know if there are a lot less encounters where the whole raid needs to stack? if so, I guess you would be right..

[CMKenneth]

this 4.3 hpal changes are a nice buff to pve healing, but have completly murdered pvp healing. really, we have no burst heals, and please dont tell me "use flash of light lols" ... its like trying to fill a swimming pool with a tea spoon. While at the same time a warrior is emptying the pool with his mighty bucket of rage.

im getting really tired of seeing all the discussion on the pve side of things... i guess palas will realize how bad things are when they start to pick shammans or disc preists to fill their spots on rbgs, not to mention arenas.

[Emaias]

this 4.3 hpal changes are a nice buff to pve healing, but have completly murdered pvp healing. really, we have no burst heals, and please dont tell me "use flash of light lols" ... its like trying to fill a swimming pool with a tea spoon. While at the same time a warrior is emptying the pool with his mighty bucket of rage.

im getting really tired of seeing all the discussion on the pve side of things... i guess palas will realize how bad things are when they start to pick shammans or disc preists to fill their spots on rbgs, not to mention arenas.

Im sorry I forgot the main point of this game was PvP... Oh wait... That's right, PvP wasnt out for several months after release due to some players not wanting to PvE and blizz catering to them. This game was based around PvE, the lore, the zones, everything. PvP is a SIDE part to this game not the main point. And the second they stop changing PvE to cater to PvP the better. Everyone knows WoW's PvP is a complete joke anyway. You want to seriously do PvP go play some other game where it isn't a joke.

[Rege]

this 4.3 hpal changes are a nice buff to pve healing, but have completly murdered pvp healing. really, we have no burst heals, and please dont tell me "use flash of light lols" ... its like trying to fill a swimming pool with a tea spoon. While at the same time a warrior is emptying the pool with his mighty bucket of rage.

im getting really tired of seeing all the discussion on the pve side of things... i guess palas will realize how bad things are when they start to pick shammans or disc preists to fill their spots on rbgs, not to mention arenas.

Not sure if troll....

...but I hope sure hope so.

PvP is the best it's been in awhile. If you are hard casting consistently, you are doing it wrong. If a warrior is killing you, you are doing it wrong.

With full Ruthless gear, gemmed, reforged, and enchanted properly, you should never go oom unless your team are full of fails.

Bottom line, aside from the loss of a second Speed of Light (which is offset by the CD reduction on Divine Protection), Holy will still be very strong in S11. If you are having trouble now, I'd just wait til 5.0.

[Dayn9]

Holy is currently average in pvp, despite the fact that 1,5k pros whine about holy paladins everyday.

It will stay that way in season 11, since there isn't a single nerf to sub rogues, frost mages, affliction warlocks and feral druids (ele shamans, boomkins and shadowpriests could fit, but they're not nearly as hard to deal with), which are worse than plague for holy paladins.

PS : you can definitely oom, even though it takes some time. Manaburning rmps / lsd2 / shadowplay can get you oom pretty quickly though