1. #25481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    And that's just older consoles. When you start emulating PS1/2, each game requires specific settings that must be changed every time you switch games.

    Don't get me wrong, it's all doable and the game are certainly playable, it's just more of a pain than people make it out to be.
    i.e. They are pretty much full of hacks - game specific hacks.

    From the looks of things, there is no easy solution.

    Faithful to hardware accurate emulation is very expensive - even the SNES is not fully emulated; would need a 10GHz CPU for that and single core performance has hit a brick wall.

    Game specific hacks ... poor man's version of "porting the game".

    Perhaps if games were written in some kind of ultra high level language that clearly defines it's behavior - e.g. how input is tracked (polling or interrupt, acceptable input processing latency ... etc.), the exact timing of every display update; basically clear declarations of when and what piece of data must be available.

    Or perhaps written to some generalized virtual machine ...

    Quite sure it's possible, it's just that the games will look like trash due to inefficiency. :P

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Oh yeah, I emulate stuff all the time. Far easier than digging through boxes to find the right console, the right cords, hooking it up to my TV then looking for the game I want to play. Just saying, it's not as easy as some make it out to be. I mean sure, it's easy for me, but not for many of my friends.
    With die shrinks over the decades, I wonder how costly it would be to squeeze every console from pre-PS3/360 onto a single chip or a few chips - i.e. system on chip; assuming it's even possible to emulate the timing of those old chips using modern chips produced using current fab tech.
    Internet forums are more for circlejerking (patting each other on the back) than actual discussion (exchange and analysis of information and points of view). Took me long enough to realise ...

  2. #25482
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Step out of telegraphs AND adjust his loadout (gear, potions, ... etc.) - gear can even provide new spells and potions various effects.

    To be frank, if mobs don't have an ultra-strong unavoidable auto attack ... there is no need for a tank.

    Won't be surprised if combat is primarily around knowing when and what to attack, and when to retreat and recover (and rebuff + what buffs to use).

    Not as hardcore as that but you get the idea.
    At work, so I can't see the video, based on some comments I am assuming it's Bloodborne. Let's discuss based on your premise if "knowing when and what to attack". How exactly would that work? What would it look like? Retreating is valid, but how do you retreat when you're alone? Wouldn't the mob just follow you and interrupt your recuperation?

    Rebuff? What abilities need to rebuffed? What buffs are actually meaningful in combat? I can't think of any situation where what you (or SQEX) is proposing that is both engaging and rewarding from a gameplay perspective. As I mentioned the combat engine in this game is not tuned for in-depth solo combat.

    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Not as intense as Bloodborne of course but it can still be entertaining as you look for opening where it's safe to cast / move in for an attack.
    Kinda covered above. That makes sense, but I just don't understand HOW you would implement that type of encounter in this combat engine?

    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Not wipe for hours on end challenge but you have died / fail a few encounters a few times no?
    I had issues with one of the PLD quests. Not sure which one. It was near the bridge. There was a mechanic I was missing, that I EVENTUALLY figured out. I had no issues failing. Made me a better player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Mmh.. okay.

    See: there's your proof that I never died much.

    I had the most trouble with Paladin class quests. If your gear is not up to snuff, these can be quite brutal.
    Yep same here. I never upgraded gear lol. That was the challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aruhen View Post
    Its those little things that annoys me. I remember trying to play Xenosaga 1 and the could not get over how the text was slightly misaligned in the text box. I'm very picky. Heck if I see z-fighting in a game I literally just close it right away. It was hell trying to complete Skyrim... goddamn mountains.
    What's up homey, you can borrow my copies of XS1-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by sahlamuhla View Post
    Τo those complaining about the challenge and solo ability of palace of the Dead. I cannot guarantee that it will be hard but do remember that they are planning to release new GC ranks around 3.35-3.4 which also means the platoon feature that they were talking about where you ll be able to bring mercenaries from your GC and command them.
    They could go as far as to let you bring them in palace of the dead or let them have their specific dungeons.
    I'll lump this is in with the companion gambit system people have been speculating about. It's a cool idea (i've even proposed that WoW Garrison missions should have been like this: I.e. pick followers you need go out into world complete quest for their abilities (dispel/raid cooldown, DPS cooldown, heals, tank, etc.) however, the thing that I am most worried about is as soon as you need a group of NPCs automating combat for you, that removes fun from the game. I'd rather do it with real people at that point.

    When I think of the deep dungeon I envision something like Mushins Tower in BNS. Trying to kill the forms of Mushin was an absolute blast that pushed me to get better at the game and understand all my abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Sure some games are finnicky. And some games like Grandia II never run w/o bugs.

    But it certainly beats buying the console due to exclusivity bull.
    Haha, the real reason you an't emulate Grandia 2 very well is because that game in its OEM format is as buggy as my backyard. (hint. my backyard has a lot of bugs).

    I do love that game. Adored Millenia and the combat. WTB next gen Grandia game.

  3. #25483
    Not slamming a hammer down or anything, but a gentle nudge reminder that emulators are a bit off topic for the thread.

    I considered the previous Final Fantasy games, their music, etc. loosely on topic since Square still touches them for FFXIV all the time, but let's not delve too far into emulator talk.

  4. #25484
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Not slamming a hammer down or anything, but a gentle nudge reminder that emulators are a bit off topic for the thread.

    I considered the previous Final Fantasy games, their music, etc. loosely on topic since Square still touches them for FFXIV all the time, but let's not delve too far into emulator talk.
    You're just emulating a moderator!

  5. #25485
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    You're just emulating a moderator!
    I just want you kids to think I'm cool.

  6. #25486
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    I have discovered a most annoying bug.
    When I zoom in, light sources suddenly aren't rendered anymore.

    I love sitting on the "Fireplace for freezing Knights". When I AFK I usually zoom all the way in, to have my Cat sit there.
    Screenshots aren't ideal but I merely turned the cam a few degrees in pic 2 and 3. Suddenly all the orange lighting on her robes and the shadow on the wall is gone.

    Any explanations for this behavior? Seems really weird to me.

  7. #25487
    I am Murloc! Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    "Healthy mix? If one of the results is endless RMT spam ... I wonder if "healthy" is the right word.

    Also no direct player trading doesn't mean no trading at all. There is still the price regulated market board.

    Nothing wrong with your friend either a) getting a drop, b) paying for one on the market board.
    You obviously don't like the idea of a friend treating a friend little gifts, but get over it, people like to bring their friend into the game and give them a little help or gift here there. I bet most people would prefer that than your "no gift" policy.

    Doing something that please you (and you alone) and pisses everyone else off is a lot more "unhealthy" for the game IMO.

    We will never agree on this topic, and I am glad you are not a game designer.

  8. #25488
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I have discovered a most annoying bug.
    When I zoom in, light sources suddenly aren't rendered anymore.

    I love sitting on the "Fireplace for freezing Knights". When I AFK I usually zoom all the way in, to have my Cat sit there.
    Screenshots aren't ideal but I merely turned the cam a few degrees in pic 2 and 3. Suddenly all the orange lighting on her robes and the shadow on the wall is gone.

    Any explanations for this behavior? Seems really weird to me.
    A similar thing happens to shadows. For example go to Anyx Trine. Enter from the front door flying in and you can see the Aetheryte shadows but they're not circling around though. Move in closer and by that I mean literally right next to it and bam the shadows start moving around properly. Its probably some weird culling thing to save on resources.
    Last edited by Aruhen; 2016-04-27 at 07:24 PM.

  9. #25489
    Yay, finally hit 50 on my AST so went from potato gear to the decent 110 set my WHM was using. Now to start working on Heavensward content on my AST.

  10. #25490
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    The current WR for Mega Man X is a tie between an console run and an emulator run, so they seem to be accepted. Darn near every applicable game on the speedrun.com leaderboards has times from emulators, and SRL has them mentioned as legal for races. (As long as accepted by the community in general for a specific game)

    So there might be issues, but they're not a no-no by any means. I'm sure if there are issues with any given game, the community for it knows the time differences anyway. (And they're likely smaller differences than using JP or EN carts, or PRG0/PRG1 carts in the case of some NES games.)
    SRL allows them because it's more open to the public and it'd alienate a lot of people and quite honestly be quite dead. Speedrun.com is quite dead, a lot of speed run communities have their own sites. The MMX you cited, Hetfield's run is actually faster by a few seconds, it's not a tie, and this is an issue as you yourself don't realize. Hell I watch MMX speed runners, and it gets explained a lot of time why emulators are and aren't allowed. For MMX1 it's allowed and actually a disadvantage because it's close enough by a few seconds, however MMX2/'3 it becomes a huge difference where times aren't comparable at all. Which is why on MMX2/3, there's absolutely no emulator times. If there is a consistent in game time however, then that's what it is used. ZX for example, Tiki has top time because his in game time is faster but real time is slower than emulators. Loading for example is faster on emulators, and it varies machine to machine. If you can go through an official medium, then it's generally better accepted for speed running as they know that everything you do is the same as everyone else and not a potential cheat. A SM64 16star run was found to be an emulator cheat with save state splicing after analyzing the video with the music at points abruptly changing.

    All Games Done Quick, European Speedrunner Assembly, RPG Limit Break, etc, are all on official consoles for example.
    The huge issue with official mediums for old games is it's expensive, and not a lot of people are that dedicated, but emulators are not something that is generally accepted or even remotely accurate. Stuff like the first Shantae game costs a few hundred dollars and are extremely rare.

  11. #25491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    You obviously don't like the idea of a friend treating a friend little gifts, but get over it, people like to bring their friend into the game and give them a little help or gift here there. I bet most people would prefer that than your "no gift" policy.

    Doing something that please you (and you alone) and pisses everyone else off is a lot more "unhealthy" for the game IMO.

    We will never agree on this topic, and I am glad you are not a game designer.
    I don't really care what you do for your friends.

    I do hate RMT spam a lot though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    At work, so I can't see the video, based on some comments I am assuming it's Bloodborne. Let's discuss based on your premise if "knowing when and what to attack". How exactly would that work? What would it look like? Retreating is valid, but how do you retreat when you're alone? Wouldn't the mob just follow you and interrupt your recuperation?

    Rebuff? What abilities need to rebuffed? What buffs are actually meaningful in combat? I can't think of any situation where what you (or SQEX) is proposing that is both engaging and rewarding from a gameplay perspective. As I mentioned the combat engine in this game is not tuned for in-depth solo combat.
    Bloodborne/Souls games actually work off the same principles as fighting games like Street Fighter/King of Fighters.

    All attacks (both by the player and the mobs) have a "cost" in the sense that they have wind up and recovery times.

    Those wind up and recovery times are window of opportunity for attack - assuming you are in a position to do so.

    Ignoring PvP, where there is the baiting aspect and feinting, mobs in the Souls type games all have exploitable gaps in their attacks in which you can get a parry in (wind up) or can attack with no fear of getting hit yourself (recovery) - the latter is also a good time to heal up if you are low on HP.

    The skill is in judging when you can do what, as choosing wrong will get you kill in quick order, and how to counter incoming attacks.

    Watch the video. (The author actually uses fighting game terms like "punishing" (an attack). I only know of these terms because of GameFAQs I read in the 90s on KoF - I don't play it but I was bored.)
    Internet forums are more for circlejerking (patting each other on the back) than actual discussion (exchange and analysis of information and points of view). Took me long enough to realise ...

  12. #25492
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Bloodborne/Souls games actually work off the same principles as fighting games like Street Fighter/King of Fighters.

    All attacks (both by the player and the mobs) have a "cost" in the sense that they have wind up and recovery times.

    Those wind up and recovery times are window of opportunity for attack - assuming you are in a position to do so.

    Ignoring PvP, where there is the baiting aspect and feinting, mobs in the Souls type games all have exploitable gaps in their attacks in which you can get a parry in (wind up) or can attack with no fear of getting hit yourself (recovery) - the latter is also a good time to heal up if you are low on HP.

    The skill is in judging when you can do what, as choosing wrong will get you kill in quick order, and how to counter incoming attacks.

    Watch the video. (The author actually uses fighting game terms like "punishing" (an attack). I only know of these terms because of GameFAQs I read in the 90s on KoF - I don't play it but I was bored.)
    I don't think he was asking about the mechanics of BB, but rather how any of that would make sense in FFXIV.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Remilia View Post
    SRL allows them because it's more open to the public and it'd alienate a lot of people and quite honestly be quite dead. Speedrun.com is quite dead, a lot of speed run communities have their own sites. The MMX you cited, Hetfield's run is actually faster by a few seconds, it's not a tie, and this is an issue as you yourself don't realize. Hell I watch MMX speed runners, and it gets explained a lot of time why emulators are and aren't allowed. For MMX1 it's allowed and actually a disadvantage because it's close enough by a few seconds, however MMX2/'3 it becomes a huge difference where times aren't comparable at all. Which is why on MMX2/3, there's absolutely no emulator times. If there is a consistent in game time however, then that's what it is used. ZX for example, Tiki has top time because his in game time is faster but real time is slower than emulators. Loading for example is faster on emulators, and it varies machine to machine. If you can go through an official medium, then it's generally better accepted for speed running as they know that everything you do is the same as everyone else and not a potential cheat. A SM64 16star run was found to be an emulator cheat with save state splicing after analyzing the video with the music at points abruptly changing.

    All Games Done Quick, European Speedrunner Assembly, RPG Limit Break, etc, are all on official consoles for example.
    The huge issue with official mediums for old games is it's expensive, and not a lot of people are that dedicated, but emulators are not something that is generally accepted or even remotely accurate. Stuff like the first Shantae game costs a few hundred dollars and are extremely rare.
    Serious question, is hetfields run considered invalid or something due to being on emulator?

  13. #25493
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Haha, the real reason you an't emulate Grandia 2 very well is because that game in its OEM format is as buggy as my backyard. (hint. my backyard has a lot of bugs).

    I do love that game. Adored Millenia and the combat. WTB next gen Grandia game.
    Grandia II had one of the most enjoyable RPG battle mechanics I've seen. The ability to cancel the enemies abilities if you timed your attacks right and combo up certain attacks to flat out shut an enemy out was always cool, the story was fun and yeah Millenia was awesome. I thought Magna Carta on PS2 was going to be the next gen Grandia game because the battles have a similar mechanic but man...I was sorely disappointed.

    OT: I'm anxiously excited for Deep Dungeon. Additional game play avenues for solo players are always welcomed to me. I'll reserve judgement until I see it in action though because I have a lot of questions about it now.

  14. #25494
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Grandia II had one of the most enjoyable RPG battle mechanics I've seen. The ability to cancel the enemies abilities if you timed your attacks right and combo up certain attacks to flat out shut an enemy out was always cool, the story was fun and yeah Millenia was awesome.
    Yep, but I also loved the music and he rather dark, religion critical theme of Grandia II.

    Fun fact: Granyala was originally inspired by Lord Granas. I wondered what a female version might sound like.

  15. #25495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I don't think he was asking about the mechanics of BB, but rather how any of that would make sense in FFXIV.
    Because FFXIV can use the same mechanics - in the most general sense.

    This is already kind of a thing in regular dungeons, many DPS classes have "empowered" windows for attacking (e.g. Deathwyrm stance, Raging Strikes ...) and you normally do your best to line it up with the gaps in a bosses attack pattern where the boss is open to attack and your wind ups (i.e. casting) aren't going to get interrupted - the worst is when you have all CDs and buffs up and the boss "vanishes" and become untargetable ... @#$%
    Internet forums are more for circlejerking (patting each other on the back) than actual discussion (exchange and analysis of information and points of view). Took me long enough to realise ...

  16. #25496
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Because FFXIV can use the same mechanics - in the most general sense.

    This is already kind of a thing in regular dungeons, many DPS classes have "empowered" windows for attacking (e.g. Deathwyrm stance, Raging Strikes ...) and you normally do your best to line it up with the gaps in a bosses attack pattern where the boss is open to attack and your wind ups (i.e. casting) aren't going to get interrupted - the worst is when you have all CDs and buffs up and the boss "vanishes" and become untargetable ... @#$%
    Reminds me of 3.0 and the days learning the intricacies of Neverreap...as BLM...oh boy.

  17. #25497
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Serious question, is hetfields run considered invalid or something due to being on emulator?
    Only for X2/3. X1 emulates fine but slower, X2/3 however do not. It's finicky.

  18. #25498
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    the worst is when you have all CDs and buffs up and the boss "vanishes" and become untargetable ... @#$%
    Ooh how I hate that on Echnida. Timings are often unpredictable due to the groups varying DPS and they can royally screw your Enochian because you don't have stuff to attack.

    Though most bosses have such a window tight at the start. Often I am through with my high DPS opener by the time mechanics start to hit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    Reminds me of 3.0 and the days learning the intricacies of Neverreap...as BLM...oh boy.
    Fun fact: did it today for the lulz as BLM (first time too).

    Dat last boss... WTF. And I thought that guy was annoying as a healer.

  19. #25499
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Fun fact: did it today for the lulz as BLM (first time too).

    Dat last boss... WTF. And I thought that guy was annoying as a healer.
    Two keys to success:

    1. Never do a full opener at the start; boss does invuln phase 15ish seconds into the start of the fight, so by the time you can really get things rolling for the opener, you'll run into a big wall of nope.

    2. Stand near the outer edge of the arena; lowers the chances you'll have a tornado run into you (namely from behind, since there won't be any there). It's rare that the tornadoes circle along the edge of the arena.

    Now I need to read up on how to not get slapped around 75% of the time during the Sephirot fight. Did that for first time couple of days ago and pretty much just wanted to walk off the platform.

  20. #25500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Ooh how I hate that on Echnida. Timings are often unpredictable due to the groups varying DPS and they can royally screw your Enochian because you don't have stuff to attack.

    Though most bosses have such a window tight at the start. Often I am through with my high DPS opener by the time mechanics start to hit.
    In general, the concept of "attack window" is already in the game.

    Casters have to decide whether they can get a cast off or they have to dodge NOW.

    Melee who have to gap close have to decide if they can bail out of danger in time.

    The game will punish your reckless attacks in the form of HP loss or even death.

    HW adds the "empowered" states, giving a cost on "missing" attacks (due to the need to dodge), which further adds a lay of complexity - i.e. you are punished again for a bad decision.
    Internet forums are more for circlejerking (patting each other on the back) than actual discussion (exchange and analysis of information and points of view). Took me long enough to realise ...

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