1. #25501
    So I'm actually curious, did they ever mention the ability to save different UI presets? Because I swear it feels like I heard them mention that at one point. It would be awesome to switch between different ones depending depending on your role or something. Hate having to constantly move my enemy list around.

  2. #25502
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    18,491
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Casters have to decide whether they can get a cast off or they have to dodge NOW.
    Seriously are we even playing the same game?
    90% of all avoidable damage will interrupt your cast.

    So if you just started a cast and the boss places a yellow circle under your butt, get out. If you continue your cast you will get the damage AND your cast will get interrupted.

    Only time when you let a cast run through is if it is already > 75%. Let it run to 85 and start moving. Client lag will do the rest.
    @Kazela: yep was quite funny to run into the wall of "nope". Been so long since I did NR, I completely forgot about his bubble.
    I should continue that damn main quest already... still have the Antitower quest b/c I never continued once I unlocked expert. Too busy with other stuff. :X

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aruhen View Post
    Hate having to constantly move my enemy list around.
    Why do you need to do that? I have it in the same place with all roles.

    I did move the raidframes for 24mans a bit though because they were overlapping.

  3. #25503
    Legendary!
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    On the road to my inevitable death.
    Posts
    6,362
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Seriously are we even playing the same game?
    90% of all avoidable damage will interrupt your cast.

    So if you just started a cast and the boss places a yellow circle under your butt, get out. If you continue your cast you will get the damage AND your cast will get interrupted.

    Only time when you let a cast run through is if it is already > 75%. Let it run to 85 and start moving. Client lag will do the rest
    Heh. Your 3rd paragraph more or less invalidates your 2nd. Wouldn't your decision be based on the mobs cast time? Aren't you assuming every mob has the same cast time for all their casted attacks?

    Also DD mobs could have longer cast times and Spell Speed might be more abundant on DD gear. So deciding whether to squeeze another attack in might be something you have to think about - i.e. It's trivial to design for it.
    Last edited by SodiumChloride; 2016-04-28 at 10:18 AM.
    Internet forums are more for circlejerking (patting each other on the back) than actual discussion (exchange and analysis of information and points of view). Took me long enough to realise ...

  4. #25504
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Why do you need to do that? I have it in the same place with all roles.

    I did move the raidframes for 24mans a bit though because they were overlapping.
    As a Ninja I don't need to pay attention at the threat so I keep it in the corner out of view. When I'm playing a tank I'd rather have it more to the center so its easier to keep track of it. Its not really a big thing but there are things I prioritize more as a certain job. For example do I really need the alliance tab on my DPS that doesn't have access to a res? Not really.

    Only time when you let a cast run through is if it is already > 75%. Let it run to 85 and start moving. Client lag will do the rest.
    Stuff like this I find differentiates the good players from the bad. You can get a decent chunk more of extra DPS by doing things like this. It reminds me of Touch of Karma from Monks in WoW and standing in stuff that would otherwise one shot you to gain a decent chunk of extra DPS.
    Last edited by Aruhen; 2016-04-28 at 10:33 AM.

  5. #25505
    Quote Originally Posted by Aruhen View Post
    As a Ninja I don't need to pay attention at the threat so I keep it in the corner out of view. When I'm playing a tank I'd rather have it more to the center so its easier to keep track of it. Its not really a big thing but there are things I prioritize more as a certain job. For example do I really need the alliance tab on my DPS that doesn't have access to a res? Not really.
    I think most people prefer to have it be a certain way no matter what. I know I do. Even if I don't need that info, it's still there. It's nice because that way when i do need the info, I know where it is, I am used to it being there. Different strokes for different folks I guess though, no real reason SE shouldn't make a fairly simple feature like that available to us. It could be stored locally so not even taking up any of their resources.

  6. #25506
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Bloodborne/Souls games actually work off the same principles as fighting games like Street Fighter/King of Fighters.

    All attacks (both by the player and the mobs) have a "cost" in the sense that they have wind up and recovery times.

    Those wind up and recovery times are window of opportunity for attack - assuming you are in a position to do so.

    Ignoring PvP, where there is the baiting aspect and feinting, mobs in the Souls type games all have exploitable gaps in their attacks in which you can get a parry in (wind up) or can attack with no fear of getting hit yourself (recovery) - the latter is also a good time to heal up if you are low on HP.

    The skill is in judging when you can do what, as choosing wrong will get you kill in quick order, and how to counter incoming attacks.

    Watch the video. (The author actually uses fighting game terms like "punishing" (an attack). I only know of these terms because of GameFAQs I read in the 90s on KoF - I don't play it but I was bored.)
    I'm an avid member of the FGC (fighting game community) so these terms and what you're saying is second nature to me. It's also why I am inherently good at BNS as well considering the combat is very similar to GG/Blazblue (bursts/tech chases being very important in that combat engine).

    With that said, I know how BB plays, it's similar to DMC (Devil May Cry), do damage, dodge roll, do damage, etc. I beat the original DMC on DMD mode (basically aids mode) when I was a kid. It cost me 2 controllers out of frustration.

    Now with that out of the way I'll let Bovinity answer for me below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I don't think he was asking about the mechanics of BB, but rather how any of that would make sense in FFXIV.
    This exactly. I completely understand how BB plays and how the combat is both rewarding, difficult, and strategic. What I fail to see is how exactly could this be implemented in a tab target MMO?

    Trust me when I say I am one of the few people on this thread that actually agrees with you that the combat engine in FF14 is garbage for any kind of in-depth or rewarding solo gameplay, but I'm not sold going anywhere near BB is the way to go given the massive changes to combat required, I'd argue there are much more efficient ways to go about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Grandia II had one of the most enjoyable RPG battle mechanics I've seen. The ability to cancel the enemies abilities if you timed your attacks right and combo up certain attacks to flat out shut an enemy out was always cool, the story was fun and yeah Millenia was awesome. I thought Magna Carta on PS2 was going to be the next gen Grandia game because the battles have a similar mechanic but man...I was sorely disappointed.
    As a HUGE fan of HTK's art I was really hyped for MC2 on the PS2, but was like you incredibly disappointed. I still actually have the poster that came with the game somewhere LOL.

    I actually liked the combat in Grandia 3 more so than 2. 2 was very good, but Magic was far too powerful and trivialized the game. In 3, the characters aren't nearly as exciting, but magic is more appropriately balanced and the air combos are surprisingly fun.

    Fun fact, the game with the best turn based combat I've ever played is the Mana Khemia series (1 and 2). I actually wanted to fight and power up my characters because not only did they have an excellent combat system, but your animations and skills actually changed and got stronger and more graphically intense as you grew stronger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Yep, but I also loved the music and he rather dark, religion critical theme of Grandia II.

    Fun fact: Granyala was originally inspired by Lord Granas. I wondered what a female version might sound like.
    Ah nice. I actually always saw your name and thought of Aeris' mother and Grandia 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Because FFXIV can use the same mechanics - in the most general sense.

    This is already kind of a thing in regular dungeons, many DPS classes have "empowered" windows for attacking (e.g. Deathwyrm stance, Raging Strikes ...) and you normally do your best to line it up with the gaps in a bosses attack pattern where the boss is open to attack and your wind ups (i.e. casting) aren't going to get interrupted - the worst is when you have all CDs and buffs up and the boss "vanishes" and become untargetable ... @#$%
    You're reaching PRETTY far on this one. If you're referring to attack windows as the "most general sense" I'd offer you that attack windows are ultimately irrelevant in a single monster vs. single character combat situation.

    How would you retreat once your BURST CDs are done? You can't run from mobs. You have no way to defend or dodge or counter incoming damage.

    Basically what you're saying is dodge telegraphs, use abilities, kill enemy. Honestly that's no different than killing a B rank hunt. Which is exactly what I stated in my OP would be the issue with this content.

    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    In general, the concept of "attack window" is already in the game.

    Casters have to decide whether they can get a cast off or they have to dodge NOW.

    Melee who have to gap close have to decide if they can bail out of danger in time.

    The game will punish your reckless attacks in the form of HP loss or even death.

    HW adds the "empowered" states, giving a cost on "missing" attacks (due to the need to dodge), which further adds a lay of complexity - i.e. you are punished again for a bad decision.
    Again see above, while the concept of attack window is in the game (and I agree it is), it's still irrelevant from a gameplay perspective because what exactly should you do once that phase is over? Run? Defend? Heal? Dodge Telegraphs?

    Where exactly is the FUN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Seriously are we even playing the same game?
    90% of all avoidable damage will interrupt your cast.

    So if you just started a cast and the boss places a yellow circle under your butt, get out. If you continue your cast you will get the damage AND your cast will get interrupted.
    This is similar to what I said above. Basically just dodge telegraphs, attack, and thats it.

    Basically instanced hunts 2.0. Probably the least gratifying content I've ever seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Heh. Your 3rd paragraph more or less invalidates your 2nd. Wouldn't your decision be based on the mobs cast time? Aren't you assuming every mob has the same cast time for all their casted attacks?

    Also DD mobs could have longer cast times and Spell Speed might be more abundant on DD gear. So deciding whether to squeeze another attack in might be something you have to think about - i.e. It's trivial to design for it.
    Sure they could have longer cast times, but this doesn't solve or explain how there is supposed to be any fun. You still just dodge telegraphs, there simply isn't any room in the combat engine to make engaging solo player content.

  7. #25507
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Because FFXIV can use the same mechanics - in the most general sense.

    This is already kind of a thing in regular dungeons, many DPS classes have "empowered" windows for attacking (e.g. Deathwyrm stance, Raging Strikes ...) and you normally do your best to line it up with the gaps in a bosses attack pattern where the boss is open to attack and your wind ups (i.e. casting) aren't going to get interrupted - the worst is when you have all CDs and buffs up and the boss "vanishes" and become untargetable ... @#$%
    That's a real stretch there. Why do you keep wanting to make this game more like an action game? There are already other games out there like this. Recently I decided to give Devilian a try and it seems to be more like what you are looking for in a game. It's basically an ARPG(Diablo 3, Path of Exile) mixed with an MMORPG. It plays like an ARPG, but is in a persistent world like an MMORPG. It's actually pretty fun so far.

  8. #25508
    Fun fact, the game with the best turn based combat I've ever played is the Mana Khemia series (1 and 2). I actually wanted to fight and power up my characters because not only did they have an excellent combat system, but your animations and skills actually changed and got stronger and more graphically intense as you grew stronger.
    Will definitely need to check these out.

    Also, @SodiumChloride ;honest question. Why do you play this game? Every time I come into a FFXIV thread you're a part of, it seems like you're just trying to turn it into something else. If they could just change this or add that, do this instead of that, remove this, I don't like that, this other game does this better, etc...

    I admit, there are some things I don't like about FFXIV, and some things I would change if I had a say... however I accept that I'm not the only one playing, that SE knows what they're doing, and trust them to do what they think is best. SE does not have a history of making big changes because of player feedback, small ones here and there sure, but nothing game changing really.

  9. #25509
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Also, @SodiumChloride ;honest question. Why do you play this game? Every time I come into a FFXIV thread you're a part of, it seems like you're just trying to turn it into something else. If they could just change this or add that, do this instead of that, remove this, I don't like that, this other game does this better, etc...
    I know right? It's like he wants to make all games just like all other games. Games are different for a reason. If you like a game, play that game, don't try to make other games that have their own identity that different people enjoy be like those other games. If you like a game, play it. If you don't like a game, don't play it. Pretty simple concept really.

  10. #25510
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    18,491
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Heh. Your 3rd paragraph more or less invalidates your 2nd. Wouldn't your decision be based on the mobs cast time? Aren't you assuming every mob has the same cast time for all their casted attacks?
    UI delay, server delay + the time I need to move my butt out of there = the point becomes moot.
    Hint: taking avoidable damage is generally NOT a good idea, esp in a raid environment where you are often punished by getting vulnerability stacks.

    It's quite rare that I am in a position where I can let the cast through AND have enough time to spare in order to get out of there.

    Could they change the design? Sure. Could they give out levels of haste that actually make a difference (read 30% less cast time or more)? probably.
    Will they ever do that? I doubt it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle
    Ah nice. I actually always saw your name and thought of Aeris' mother and Grandia 2.
    ^_^
    Last edited by Granyala; 2016-04-28 at 04:42 PM.

  11. #25511
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Seriously are we even playing the same game?
    90% of all avoidable damage will interrupt your cast.

    So if you just started a cast and the boss places a yellow circle under your butt, get out. If you continue your cast you will get the damage AND your cast will get interrupted.

    Only time when you let a cast run through is if it is already > 75%. Let it run to 85 and start moving. Client lag will do the rest.
    @Kazela: yep was quite funny to run into the wall of "nope". Been so long since I did NR, I completely forgot about his bubble.
    I should continue that damn main quest already... still have the Antitower quest b/c I never continued once I unlocked expert. Too busy with other stuff. :X
    It's a matter of learning the latency and how much give it provides to allow shuffle stepping.

    Antitower's pretty neat. The last boss is a nod to FF4 (and a bit creepy, depending on who you ask). Worth having it as part of the MSQ.

  12. #25512
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    18,491
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    It's a matter of learning the latency and how much give it provides to allow shuffle stepping.
    Yes I do it all the time on my WHM but BLMs casts are usually too long to take advantage of that.
    Either that or I just have shitty luck with placement timings.

  13. #25513
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Yes I do it all the time on my WHM but BLMs casts are usually too long to take advantage of that.
    Either that or I just have shitty luck with placement timings.
    It's a combination of practice and gear, specifically spell speed. Thinking back, I started noticing maintaining the rotation started becoming much easier as early as ilvl 180 gear (the old upgraded law gear). Nowadays I'm just rubbing my hands together in anticipation of more and more spell speed (I'm a whopping 211 ilvl currently, should jump a bit later today when I get 230 hat).

  14. #25514
    Legendary!
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    On the road to my inevitable death.
    Posts
    6,362
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    You're reaching PRETTY far on this one. If you're referring to attack windows as the "most general sense" I'd offer you that attack windows are ultimately irrelevant in a single monster vs. single character combat situation.

    How would you retreat once your BURST CDs are done? You can't run from mobs. You have no way to defend or dodge or counter incoming damage.

    Basically what you're saying is dodge telegraphs, use abilities, kill enemy. Honestly that's no different than killing a B rank hunt. Which is exactly what I stated in my OP would be the issue with this content.



    Again see above, while the concept of attack window is in the game (and I agree it is), it's still irrelevant from a gameplay perspective because what exactly should you do once that phase is over? Run? Defend? Heal? Dodge Telegraphs?

    Where exactly is the FUN?
    Why do you assume they will just recycle the mobs from the open world?

    It's obvious if they want to make it challenging they will redesign the mobs - i.e. no auto attack that can't be dodged.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Could they change the design? Sure. Could they give out levels of haste that actually make a difference (read 30% less cast time or more)? probably.
    Will they ever do that? I doubt it.


    ^_^
    Then it's settled.

    Just give the mobs long cast times and add recovery times.
    Internet forums are more for circlejerking (patting each other on the back) than actual discussion (exchange and analysis of information and points of view). Took me long enough to realise ...

  15. #25515
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    18,491
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Then it's settled.
    Just give the mobs long cast times and add recovery times.
    As I said: they won't change it. So while it might be a nice idea in theory (one would actually have to playtest to see if it is fun in practice) the discussion is rather moot.

  16. #25516
    Legendary!
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    On the road to my inevitable death.
    Posts
    6,362
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    As I said: they won't change it. So while it might be a nice idea in theory (one would actually have to playtest to see if it is fun in practice) the discussion is rather moot.
    Why won't they have the mobs in DD with longer cast times and recovery times? (If it adds to the gameplay.)
    Internet forums are more for circlejerking (patting each other on the back) than actual discussion (exchange and analysis of information and points of view). Took me long enough to realise ...

  17. #25517
    Over 9000! Graeham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    9,511
    I'm working on getting DRK to 60 now. Ironically mostly so I can use the Ravana EX DRK sword since it looks really good. I also want the title 'Grandmaster of War' that you get after hitting level 60 on every DoW class/job.

    We're supposedly getting some fresh information on 3.3 'today' (29th) so that should help stir up some excitement!

  18. #25518
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Rigging your election
    Posts
    33,440
    So any thoughts on what this patch 3.3 reveal might bring?
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  19. #25519
    I'm personally hoping for new info about the treasure dungeons.

  20. #25520
    Over 9000! Graeham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    9,511
    Quote Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
    So any thoughts on what this patch 3.3 reveal might bring?
    They'll probably announce what the two new dungeons are. I suspect it'll be Hullbreaker (Hard) and either The Aery (Hard) or a completely new dungeon for facing off against Nidhogg for the final time.

    I suspect they'll go into more detail in regards to this 'Palace of the Dead' and the 'Treasure Dungeons' that they've mentioned. They may also reveal the next 'Triad' fight and elaborate on what the next 'Void Ark' raid will be.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there's another attraction announced for The Gold Saucer either.

    Most of the minor stuff will likely be revealed in the patch trailer/patch notes closer to the time. They also tend to keep details of the MSQ's under wraps so I don't expect much to be shown in that department.

    So long as it's bigger than 3.1 I'll be content.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •