[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Kazgrel]

Well i finished the main story and while it felt a bit abrupt in wrapping some things up and introducing others again way too soon its easily been one of the strongest stories of the expansion. and i was wondering when Nero would show up again after World of Darkness, but i guess this means the final Trial of HW will be Omega Weapon?

Overall a solid story patch. Just Void Ark and the spoilered event left to tie things up before the almost certain 4.0 jaunt into the piney mountain forests of Ala Mhigo an maybe the outer empire near Xelphatol i assume.

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I imagine the eyes will be what powers the Omega Weapon as a step up from the primals, unless maybe the Void Queen finale raid plays a part

Highly doubt there will be a tie-in between the Shadow of Mhach (Void Queen) storyline and the MSQ. But then again, they did pull Nero back into the main story after his foray into the CT series.

Never thought of the idea that Omega Weapon could be a 3.5 trial; we'll likely have last of the Warring Triad there, for one.

[dope_danny]

Highly doubt there will be a tie-in between the Shadow of Mhach (Void Queen) storyline and the MSQ. But then again, they did pull Nero back into the main story after his foray into the CT series.

Never thought of the idea that Omega Weapon could be a 3.5 trial; we'll likely have last of the Warring Triad there, for one.

I think we get void ark part 3 as the final raid while alex savage is meant to remain the 'hardcore' option, last of the triad will be the side story and OW will be the MSQ trial in the next patch. Which wraps up all of the remaining story threads of HW if i'm not forgetting something.

[Extremities]

Legion just makes me appreciate how polished FFXIV is. I much prefer the community in FFXIV too. I never really found a cool group of like-minded players to hang around with back when I played WoW. Yet I can log in even during dry periods in FFXIV and have a lot of fun just chatting away and doing random stuff with my friends there. Then again those 'dry periods' don't last very long since the game is updated fairly consistently.

I agree, FFXIV is extremely polished and I may check it out again soon. I am enjoying Legion at the moment but I do have to say the one and only ONE thing that bothered me about FFXIV was that the world felt "boxed in" similar to Everquest 2. The zones felt "small" and not apart of a world. One thing Legion and Blizzard has done well is make their game world feel like a world. As much as I don't have a problem with zones, ala EQ/FFXIV, the world of FFXIV doesn't feel like a world, just yet. Original FFXIV did. But, none the less, FFXIV is an incredible game.

[Eleccybubb]

Legion just makes me appreciate how polished FFXIV is. I much prefer the community in FFXIV too. I never really found a cool group of like-minded players to hang around with back when I played WoW. Yet I can log in even during dry periods in FFXIV and have a lot of fun just chatting away and doing random stuff with my friends there. Then again those 'dry periods' don't last very long since the game is updated fairly consistently.

Honestly dude I fully agree with you here but I have noticed some crazies in certain social aspects of FF14. Got an alt in an FC on Odin and this guy made 2 Lalafell jokes. Nothing like extreme but people jumped on him in chat saying he was "racist". Must say the tears of the triggered were good fun to laugh at. Literally here are the jokes and 1 I remember from reddit.

What do you call a sunbathing Lalafell? A baked potato

What do you call a male Lalafell? A Lalafella

Not exactly the funniest ones but jesus people losing their shit over that is just crazy imo.

[Anzaman]

This journal is dangerous to my health.

[Eleccybubb]

This journal is dangerous to my health.

I made a custom emote in which I throw it right in Khloes stupid face.

[Anzaman]

I made a custom emote in which I throw it right in Khloes stupid face.

And it blew up.

[lawow74]

I agree, FFXIV is extremely polished and I may check it out again soon. I am enjoying Legion at the moment but I do have to say the one and only ONE thing that bothered me about FFXIV was that the world felt "boxed in" similar to Everquest 2. The zones felt "small" and not apart of a world. One thing Legion and Blizzard has done well is make their game world feel like a world. As much as I don't have a problem with zones, ala EQ/FFXIV, the world of FFXIV doesn't feel like a world, just yet. Original FFXIV did. But, none the less, FFXIV is an incredible game.

I don't know if they changed it, but even with the seamless nature of WoW's major areas, I feel much more part of a world in FF14 because it has a strong day/night cycle and variable weather.

[Graeham]

POTD is pretty profitable now - I got some V grade materia and a few minions from the bronze trimmed sacks as well as some less valuable stuff. I can only wonder what they'll add in the higher floors once they're opened up.

[Kazgrel]

I think we get void ark part 3 as the final raid while alex savage is meant to remain the 'hardcore' option, last of the triad will be the side story and OW will be the MSQ trial in the next patch. Which wraps up all of the remaining story threads of HW if i'm not forgetting something.

3.5 will see the final chapter of the Shadow of Mhach questline, and it'll also serve as the "catch up" 24m, while Creator Savage remains the most difficult experience. I'm not 100% sold on us seeing OW as a trial or in a dungeon before 4.0, but I'm certainly not opposed to it. 3.4 MSQ leaves enough intrigue that I'm already convinced I'll be playing xpac 2 whenever it arrives.

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POTD is pretty profitable now - I got some V grade materia and a few minions from the bronze trimmed sacks as well as some less valuable stuff. I can only wonder what they'll add in the higher floors once they're opened up.

Too bad the Samsonian hairstyle (which drops from the bronze coffers or whatever those new ones are called) isn't able to be put on MB. It can be traded, though, but seeing there's a limit on gil that can be traded at one time, not a great solution.

Crud, so much I want to do this weekend. Sophia (norm and possibly EX), Creator floors, bit of decorating the apartment, and possibly some POTD to 1. try and snag that hairstyle and 2. get some more 235 weapons for alt jobs.

[Anzaman]

..bit of decorating the apartment,..

I just finished mine.





Might add something more later, but after this buying frenzy, I need to control my Gil-usage a bit.. still at 18 mil tho.

[lawow74]

POTD is pretty profitable now - I got some V grade materia and a few minions from the bronze trimmed sacks as well as some less valuable stuff. I can only wonder what they'll add in the higher floors once they're opened up.

Confirmed, I made 1.3M Gil yesterday off the materia and other junk the sacks gave me.

[Faroth]

The only one that matters is the cheesey A8 one.

This is fact. I need an orchestrion roll stat!

[Kazgrel]

I just finished mine.

Might add something more later, but after this buying frenzy, I need to control my Gil-usage a bit.. still at 18 mil tho.

Having not owned a house or managed a FC house in game before, I pretty much didn't have anything to put in mine. Got a telescope or such from retainer venture yesterday, so I decided "eh, why not put the room to use"...and away I went. I have all of 4-5 things out of 50 in there, so I have a looooong way to go, but I can pretty much craft everything but the largest aquarium (which is 4* CRP specialist locked), and a lot of the mats are either easily farmed or sold for dirt cheap on various vendors.

[Granyala]

That Aquarium looks totally cool :O

[Remilia]

Yeah, we got a G4 Aquarium, just wish there wasn't the limit. Want more fishies in there. Also wtb tapping the aquarium freaks out the fish, but alas that's not there. >.>

[Graeham]

Well, I didn't get any lines for the Wondrous Tails this week.

At least it serves as another means of keeping old content relevant.

[Lillpapps]

I just finished mine.

Might add something more later, but after this buying frenzy, I need to control my Gil-usage a bit.. still at 18 mil tho.

Have you considered using a Mahogany Partition Door instead? Fits a lot better with the interior imo.

[Anzaman]

Have you considered using a Mahogany Partition Door instead? Fits a lot better with the interior imo.

Possibly, but I like the door I'm using currently. Thanks for the tip anyways.

[Wrecktangle]

Again, it comes back to a matter of your perception is nothing matters and so far aside from character power, I've not put my finger on what you think does matter. You do mention spell effects, like warlock green fire, below but likewise dismiss glamour as being tired whereas they are essentially the same with one being glamour for the spell. So I'm having difficulty figuring out the type of rewards you'd like to see. (Other than one mentioned further below).

My personal stance is that everything, one way or the other should interact with character power. Character power doesn't have to be direct strength increases. It can be new features, glamour, etc. I gave an example earlier of Chocobo Racing unlocking new movement skills (sprinting, super jumping, diving, etc.). This would be an increase in character power. This would also be considered horizontal progression because it does not replace or make something else obsolete.

While its 100% true that spell effect changes are a form of glamour, they're quite different, they're also arguably 3 million times more cool considering it's something fresh, its another way to differentiate your character and would be additional horizontal progression if you wanted to unlock multiple spell effect glamours (assuming the unlocking process was actually engaging).

So again, what would be useful or fun that Palace of the Dead (or similar content) could offer that wouldn't be ilvl based nor glamour based? I presume we're excluding minions and mounts on top of glamour and armor/weapons that offer power increase. What would then be the desired reward?

Excellent question. This all goes back to my original post. Lack of horizontal progression severely limits the amount of reward structures available.

Because there is no spell effect glamour you can't use that. Because Materia are just stat sticks, they can't use that. Because there's no new abilities or tricks to learn they can't use that. These are just some examples of things that could be actual horizontal systems that could be given as rewards to various side-content, but they don't have them, therefore they can't use them.

To explicitly answer your question - I have NO idea what the reward should or could be in the existing framework. I can't think of a single thing that's worthy.

I'm conflicted on that. It goes back to the argument of easy mode Alexander + Savage Alexander. The multiple versions/difficulties of the same raid is something I still haven't entirely decided where I fully fall on. An 8 man would be nice to be able to run it later with new players to let them see it, but the new Wondrous Tails may help with pushing those to stay active as well, so that aspect may be addressed.

We've discussed this several times and agree. If I am forced with the existing paradigm then my statement still stands about an 8m version. If we're going out a step further, then really I wouldn't need it because raid content would be robust enough.

I like dungeons. How long have people in WoW complained about 2 years without a single new dungeon? :/

I love dungeons. Just not FF14 dungeons. So much wasted potential. They're too linear, too easy, and too restricted in variety. One big thing they do right though is making multiple version of them. I.e. same art assets completely new bosses/monsters/mechanics. I do wish they'd have used a better naming convention, but hardly an issue worth discussing.

I just imagine dungeon scenarios where things change mid dungeon, a little RNG, a little danger or difficulty, etc. For reference I don't think WoW does dungeons particularly well either.

But going with that thought, so far you're leaning the same direction WoW has taken. Less dungeons, more raids. Add more raids, add more raid bosses, focus on raids.

Less dungeons? I never said that. I just want slightly bigger raids so they don't have fucked all difficulty progression and loot distribution. I don't even want more (but wouldn't be opposed, see: 8m version of 24m). I'm saying that its silly to assume they can't do both with proper resources, the question as always is do they have those resources? We don't know.

I'd like to see larger raids with more bosses, but with the tight turn around time, I also feel a need to try and be mindful of what's reasonable. We're not talking about a team as big as Blizzard and the amount of new models and things they put out is still impressive to me. Include the fact that they're working out of Japan with essentially live-development localization and it's quite a bit.

I think one critical mistake you and others are making here is defining what's reasonable. We don't know what is reasonable for them, we don't know how much bigger their staff has gotten, we don't know their budget differentials between expacs, and we have no idea how their process flow functions. Its super easy to assume that the status quo is the limit of what they can do, but that's a foolish assumption. Years back I was a junior mortgage underwriter, and the "daily quota" was approx 7 loans a day. My friend and I were both crushing slightly more than double a day, and that's barely pushing it.

They could easily have tools in place that allow them to build and test dungeons in approximately 3 weeks. They may not and a dungeon could take 1.5 months. The art team could make everything in 2 months, or they could do it in 1 week. The point is we have 0 insight so we shouldn't assume that they can't do something. I happen to be a business systems analyst who acts as a liaison between IT developers and the business. So I'm familiar with negotiating wants up front, then having them curtailed by what is actually possible. If I shot up a proposal for a system implementation and said, I don't want to burden you guys I know you have it tough so please we can release in 3 months, I'd get laughed out of the room because they could get it done in 4 weeks, but they're not going to offer that up if they aren't asked too because it will allow them to prioritize other projects they may want to work on.

If we could get WoW sized raids every 6 months while still getting new dungeons, trials, Primal EX trials, MSQ, new crafting additions, and new side games and mini-games, I'm all for it, sure.

Probably be hard pressed to find anyone who isn't

Investing profits back into the game I fully believe is done on a regular basis, though some is of course supporting other projects.

I'm not sold personally. Investment would imply growth, but their template hasn't changed. That means that the game can be running on fundamentally a similar budget as previously. There are other mitigating factors behind the scenes like additional staff, etc. that COULD be the target of investment, but even still I'd imagine that'd be visible in the content.

But to take a stance of I want what I want and it's someone else's problem to give it to me comes across as willfully ignoring reality, if not a bit entitled. Throwing money and more people at it doesn't produce instant results, as we've clearly seen with WoW continuing to increase their team working on WoW, yet each expansion takes as long as they ever did with continuing content droughts.

Probably poorly stated on my part, because that's not what I intended. The point of this is that I cannot fathom their internal processes so I'm not going to worry about it, and neither should any of you. I'm going to ask for what I want, if they shoot it down, that's that. Curtailing what I ask for because of nonsensical feeling of their workload is beyond silly though.

Would you walk into Chic-Fil-A and say, I want a medium #1, but it doesn't need to be fresh or anything, I don't want to burden you with providing an improved service.

The employee behind the counter would look at you like you're the strangest freaking dude alive.

I'm pretty happy with the regular, consistent release of content with new encounters that are generally pretty enjoyable from a smaller team.

Me too. My issue is that, maybe they should make the team a little bigger, to push maybe enhanced, or larger, or more, or better content. Or HELL; what if they could push the same content in 2 months instead. That's an alternative too (not personally one I'm TERRIBLY interested in, but nonetheless it's an option).

They haven't confirmed anything, it's still speculation. But I get the feeling players still expect three.

Geomancer
Beastmaster
Necromancer
Time Mage

I'd like to see RDM be a melee caster with a mix of Melee/Caster abilities. Maybe toss in something akin to NIN's ninjutsu combos to trigger some debuff/buff/minor heal options to keep that "jack of all trades" vibe without making them the overpowered "do everything, only take RDM" possibility.

SAM I would like to see as a tank, despite Yoshida making some comments of it as a DPS in the past. I'd like to be a SAM tank / NIN dps player.

What exactly would a Geomancer do like mechanically? (As a HUGE FFT fan) I just couldn't think of a single thing worthwhile.

Beastmaster I felt the same about. Its gimmick would be a pet class, arguably a melee one to offset the SMN, but other than that I can't think of anything. Even still I can't think of any compelling gameplay or weapon choices for this class.

Necromancer I feel like is already redundant with SMN (given SMN's Bio, Miasma, etc. oriented spells) wouldn't you agree? Would you go pet class style with it? Then we'd have 2 ranged pet classes. I could however argue for a scythe being their weapon, so there's that.

Time Mage is null and void. That's the AST (granted I'm not sold on the implementation of it, it's very clear that the Time Mage was the inspiration).

My thoughts on RDM was a DPS system of Rapier based sword attacks, that were periodically empowered by spells and were heavily based on MP and TP. I.e. They'd use a oGCD fire buff move, that makes next 1 (maybe more than 1?) attack become AOE or deal bonus damage/effect. Alternatively could use blizzard oGCD that would then give them MP regenerative properties, etc.

I firmly believe that a Jack of all trades approach would be very wrong for them.

And thus we come full circle to my first quote on this post... Aside from glamour, mounts, minions, and power boosting, what would feel rewarding as a sense of progression coming from this content?

Enjoying this conversation, even if we veer into theoretical MMO design with it somewhat.

Agreed - having a ton of fun discussing the intricacies (also makes slow days at work go by quicker )

I feel that I answered that question in a bit more depth further up in this post. Let me know if you think I still missed it.

I noted for game changing (or class as you're noting) items isn't going to be fun when you replace it and potentially changing your cycle / rotation.

What? Please tell me you're kidding? This is like you advocating that pressing 1-2-3 would be both fun and ideal for years to come. No other input or engagement required. ADAPTATION is a huge part of the fun in gaming. Let me take a stab here. You don't play any PVP games (fighting, mobas, pvp in ff14, etc.) do you? I feel like I can safely say that the only thing you enjoy is 100% scripted, no surprises, no difficulty based gaming. Nothing wrong with that, to each their own

Yay? I noted items that come into play with balancing at the start. You noted balancing both too, which is where it becomes an even bigger issue. And FFXIV is still not balanced especially when WAR and SCH are very preferred for many situations.

WAR and SCH are definitely overtuned, but they're not such a huge outlier that it's the end of the world, especially with recent fixes.

True balance where you can literally bring anything and everyone of equal skill and still go through the content is hard to do and I have yet to see a game that has done it.

TECHNICALLY - true balance implies all characters are perfectly balanced identically to each other which we'd both agree on is likely impossible. That said my argument was functional balance which is where everything is viable, and within a fairly close margin of each other, which both games have arguably achieved these days.

Reducing cooldown increases power, though in a more broken way because it doesn't scale linearly and effects the entire rotation or the entire outcome of the class. Which is why I specifically noted certain things like game changing, or well class changing in your example. The moment you add effects that change how classes work you (technically) rework how the rotations and such work and it may become a mandate especially when there's no con. I'll note something that honestly is better and isn't just straight up power increase as you're suggesting, which is literally the definition of vertical progression.

Items, temporary things that get replaced cause reasons, not the entire gameplay, though they can do that, it would be more suited for expansions.

The definition of vertical progression is the act of obtaining something that makes something else obsolete. This is my personal definition, you are MORE than welcome to pick it apart or provide your own. However, it looks fairly similar to yours.

You asked me to come up with an effect that was interesting. I did in my opinion, do you disagree? I did however make the mistake of labeling one of the rows Horizontal Power. That was a mistake and I am sorry. Should have been effect power, (a result of the constant discussion on both itemization and reward structure ).

The things you want would be more suited to skill specialization that's not on an equipment or anything temporary. Everything that you're asking for would be better suited if it weren't on items really.

I actually agree with this, however on the flip side what if generic items HAD buffs/effects, etc, let's even say some recurring (i.e. maybe the effect existed in SCoB, and maybe we see it again final tier of Alex, or in a Tomestone piece), i.e. the Gierskogul effect I developed and other pieces had other buffs and you could develop sets that had some synergy with them.

note: I am not saying this is a good idea or bad. Simply that it is another idea.

Just to pick an example from PSO2 cause they do stuff like this. Certain Photon Arts and all Techniques have customization capability. However, every single one of em has a detriment to go along with it so you weigh your choices and it becomes a lot more even field without a straight power push.

Original DC PSO player here. One thing I want to note about this idea is that you don't necessarily NEED a detriment. It's certainly a valid system and actually sounds very interesting based on the below text. Another approach, and typically the one that I advocate for the power of effects themselves are the detriment, (if you're familiar with business it's called opportunity cost). The cost (detriment) of picking this trait is the loss of all the other bonus effects. Neither is right or wrong IMO.

What your suggestion has absolutely no cons to it, which is why it's a straight up power increase. A horizontal progression for skills has to be balanced out by something bad, since pretty much the definition of vertical progression is power increase.

My suggestion being the Jump/Gierskogul effect right? Naturally it has no direct cons, because you're looking at it in a vacuum. You assumee that there'd be no other competition of effects (there would be if I had my way). In this vein using a weapon as my example was probably a poor decision, but easily remedied by this:

Tomestone Weapon:
Equip: The unbridled rage of Nidhogg empowers you granting a second charge of BotD.
Equip: While BotD is active all damage is increased by 2%
Equip: Reduces the cooldown of Dragonfire Dive by 30s.

Think aesthetically your BotD is now red and maybe more violent looking? DFD can also look different too. Mechanically you get the flexibility of a second charge of BotD and small damage buffs.

Savage Weapon:
Equip: Alexander's Judgment transforms Gierskogul from a line AOE to a large circular AOE.
Equip: After casting Gierskogul your next attack deals 20% more damage and fires in a line AOE.
Equip: Hitting 2 or more targets with Gierskogul causes it to not cost any BotD.

Think aesthetically your Gierskogul circles around you in a fairly large radius (this changes positioning, and look). Maybe it has hints and splashes of white to go with Holy theme of Alex. Mechanically you get the benefit of wide attack, reduced cost for hitting multiple targets and you get your next attack basically transformed into the old Gierskogul. So the next attack deals 20% additional damage, but is also now a line AOE, again with maybe like a blast of white light.

Now you have 3 weapons of general equal coolness (assume math is relatively equal with slight nod to savage).

Let's even take it a step further. What if there was a mechanic that allowed you to transfer a single effect like this off old gear into new gear? Could be a PotD style, offer up equipment go into dungeon and it creates an item that allows you to transfer it to an item to later have a crafter apply to new gear? Or alternatively could be a new mechanic/system that was for both pulling off and putting on.

What if gear could be "powered" up to allow more slots for effects. Again, just ideas, whether good or bad.

Tried Sophia Ex earlier, darn she has a lot health - can't wait to upgrade my i235 bow.

Liking the fight, it's not that hard - but small mistakes are quite punishing, position yourself in wrong angle and off you go. We have healer announcing scale side and strength, so rest of us can focus on boss. But well, mathematical mistakes happened, and will happen - when your healer tells you to go to left side with small impact force.. well.. you do hope that it's correctly calculated. Few times flew all the way through platform to death, haha.

So not currently subbed, but what are the actual mechanics of the fight. it looks like a terribly boring tank and spank (like 1 AOE to get out, non-threatening adds, and a super obviously telegraphed and easy to handle leviathan platform mechanic.

That said it's absolutely stunning to behold and the music was neat, but not my fav.

I don't know if they changed it, but even with the seamless nature of WoW's major areas, I feel much more part of a world in FF14 because it has a strong day/night cycle and variable weather.

I love the LOOK of FF14s world. I LOVE the feel of the broken Isles. If that makes sense. It's not graphics, but design etc.

Also WoW does have variable weather as best I can tell, but I could be wrong and maybe its location based.