1. #33821
    Bloodsail Admiral Gutler's Avatar
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    MCH BRD and RDM for me gonna feel so good to be a mobile BRD once again.

    Sig by Elyssia "When you do things right people won't be sure you've done anything at all"

  2. #33822
    Over 9000! Graeham's Avatar
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    MCH is my current main. I intend to go through 4.0 as PLD for the sake of quicker queues as almost everybody is going to be queuing up as a DPS. I want to soak up the story and enjoy it without people spoiling it for me, so playing PLD makes that easier as it mitigates the amount of time spent standing around whilst waiting for a duty to pop.

    Once at 70, we supposedly get decent armour through job quests which should be enough to sign up for the end game dungeons. I'll gather tomes through that particular method and also work on getting SAM from 50 to 70. I intend to make SAM into my new main but I want the hype surrounding it to die down a little. Assuming I enjoy it, I can use the tomes gathered on my PLD to gear it up.

    That's my plan, at least.

  3. #33823
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I don't think it's conceited for a game designer to want you to play the game you just bought instead of skipping 90% of it and bitching on the forums about how the game is dead and there's nothing to do and there's not enough content. Which seems to be the norm for the types who tend to want to skip everything and only raid. I just can't get my head around "I bought this new game, I should get to skip all of it for free" mentality. Just doesn't compute for me.
    I on the other hand think it's extremely arrogant for a developer to demand that you play the story in it's entirity. Even if you use the MSQ skip potion, you're still going to have to level, you're just free to do it your own way. You're not "skipping" anything but the cutscenes and unlock quests, allowing you to do the content you want, rather than the content the developers have mandated that you do in order to participate in anything but open world content.

    I think of it like going to McDonalds and asking for no pickles on your burger. There's one small part of your meal that you dislike, but you can get it removed by simply asking for it. No fuss, no muss. The MSQ in FF 14 is the same kind of deal, people enjoy the rest of the game, there's just one minor detail that they would prefer not to have to deal with. These people are also paying customers, I don't see why they should pay extra to opt out of content they don't like doing.

  4. #33824
    Quote Originally Posted by sahlamuhla View Post
    Even with these changes I bet you shit healers still wont dps
    Who are you to judge how someone plays their own job? Unless you're doing Savage content it doesn't matter at all and doesn't hurt anyone. If targets are full health then yeah I agree dpsing is better than absolutely nothing or overhealing but would I get mad if they weren't dpsing, no cause I'm not a dick nor is it affecting me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    I on the other hand think it's extremely arrogant for a developer to demand that you play the story in it's entirity. Even if you use the MSQ skip potion, you're still going to have to level, you're just free to do it your own way. You're not "skipping" anything but the cutscenes and unlock quests, allowing you to do the content you want, rather than the content the developers have mandated that you do in order to participate in anything but open world content.

    I think of it like going to McDonalds and asking for no pickles on your burger. There's one small part of your meal that you dislike, but you can get it removed by simply asking for it. No fuss, no muss. The MSQ in FF 14 is the same kind of deal, people enjoy the rest of the game, there's just one minor detail that they would prefer not to have to deal with. These people are also paying customers, I don't see why they should pay extra to opt out of content they don't like doing.
    I absolutely agree and it's amazing so many people are getting mad over optional things that aren't even aimed towards them. Kids will literally bitch about anything so it's kinda expected, as sad as it is.

  5. #33825
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    I on the other hand think it's extremely arrogant for a developer to demand that you play the story in it's entirity. Even if you use the MSQ skip potion, you're still going to have to level, you're just free to do it your own way. You're not "skipping" anything but the cutscenes and unlock quests, allowing you to do the content you want, rather than the content the developers have mandated that you do in order to participate in anything but open world content.

    I think of it like going to McDonalds and asking for no pickles on your burger. There's one small part of your meal that you dislike, but you can get it removed by simply asking for it. No fuss, no muss. The MSQ in FF 14 is the same kind of deal, people enjoy the rest of the game, there's just one minor detail that they would prefer not to have to deal with. These people are also paying customers, I don't see why they should pay extra to opt out of content they don't like doing.
    I think it's extremely arrogant to want to skip all of the content and go right to the end. If you dont like their content, dont play the game. Why is it just the mmo community that think their special and should not have to play the game. I can't load up other rpgs and just skip to the final bosses. I cant think of any other game where you can skip the story and just go right to the end. If you don't like the MSQ, you don't like the game. Plain and simple. Move on.

  6. #33826
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aruhen View Post
    Either way has anyone decided to change their mains with the new info? I'm debating switching to my old main BRD.
    Didn't get any relevant info about WHM, so I cannot decide.
    I doubt I will change main though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawrajishxc View Post
    Who are you to judge how someone plays their own job? Unless you're doing Savage content it doesn't matter at all and doesn't hurt anyone.
    Except make the dungeon go a lot faster. Healers can do some pretty neat DPS.
    Also please stop with the "who are you to judge". In MMO-group content there is only one way to play correctly: maximizing output while minimizing downtime.
    You can herp-a-derp on your quest mobs while solo all you want.

  7. #33827
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Didn't get any relevant info about WHM, so I cannot decide.
    I doubt I will change main though.

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    Except make the dungeon go a lot faster. Healers can do some pretty neat DPS.
    Also please stop with the "who are you to judge". In MMO-group content there is only one way to play correctly: maximizing output while minimizing downtime.
    You can herp-a-derp on your quest mobs while solo all you want.
    The only noticeably time it went by faster was when holy spamming during speed runs were a thing. It's no big deal if they're not dpsing as it's not going to make it go by that much faster. Not everyone is going to want to play a healing class just to dps during downtime. It's people like you that give gaming communities a bad rep because you think they should be playing a certain way.

  8. #33828
    Quote Originally Posted by Resiak1066 View Post
    If you don't like the MSQ, you don't like the game. Plain and simple. Move on.
    Condensing a complex game like FF14 down to a series of predominently single-player quests is disengenuous in the extreme. The game has so much more to offer than just the MSQ, one can very easilly dislike the MSQ while also being engaged by the core game play.

    The "MSQ or GTFO" attitude is more harmful than you realise, it's pushed away practically everyone I've tried to introduce to the game. Part of that is the shear length of the questlines, but also the community attitude that's made them feel very unwelcome. Which is a shame, they've enjoyed the dungeon content and PotD, but not the hostility from a minority of players who insist that the story is the most important part of FF 14.

  9. #33829
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    I on the other hand think it's extremely arrogant for a developer to demand that you play the story in it's entirity.
    So you think it's arrogant for the creator to design their game to be played a certain way, but demanding the game change to suit your desires isn't arrogant at all?

    There are a dozen MMOs that don't give two flips about story. FFXIV is one of the few that crafts the game around the idea that the story is important. Rather than play a dozen other MMOs that suit said storyless tastes, FFXIV needs to change to be the same as the others?

    Alrighty then, but I'm going to reserve the right to seriously blow my top if people start complaining there's not enough raid content because the developers are "wasting their time" with story content every patch instead of pumping out more raid content. >:|

  10. #33830
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    They did kind of discuss the reasoning behind this. They basically said that the majority of people who purchase the boosts are gamers who have played games before and don't need as much coaching, but even then players who boost a job are highly encouraged to go and do the Hall of the Novice in order to learn their role and their job actions in order to play effectively.

    I'm OK with this implementation, not excited or anything, but the game needed it at this point in order to alleviate the time needed to get to endgame and play with veteran friends.

    We'll inevitably see people with boosted jobs doing horribly in dungeons/ raids, but we see that now with people who leveled normally so I don't really see how this will have a huge effect on the game play experience. We'll need to deal with them the same way we do now...however that might be depending on the person.
    Best post I've seen on this forum in a while. Informative, unbiased and offers insight in reasoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I'm just uneasy with the argument of "anything that brings in more players is good for the game" mentality. There's a difference between "more money" and "good for the game's longevity and health of its development direction."

    We could adopt models that appeal to the XBox Live crowd and implement a ton of mobile game methodologies to get more players. That would be GREAT if we got another million people, right?! ಠ_ಠ
    Not necessarily "ANYTHING" that brings in more players. Most people don't advocate that and you're just being obtuse Faroth you know better! That said, getting MORE players into the game is good, especially if the cost to existing players is negligible-to-non-existent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    They won't because they don't see it as their role and probably, due to the absence of parsing, are under the impression that they can't contribute meaningfully.

    I myself had that belief for quite a while until some people here explained stuff to me and encouraged me to check out ACT.
    Ohhhh did I help contribute with this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Resiak1066 View Post
    I think it's extremely arrogant to want to skip all of the content and go right to the end. If you dont like their content, dont play the game. Why is it just the mmo community that think their special and should not have to play the game. I can't load up other rpgs and just skip to the final bosses. I cant think of any other game where you can skip the story and just go right to the end. If you don't like the MSQ, you don't like the game. Plain and simple. Move on.
    I can think of a few games. Ironically SQEX games. Chrono Trigger (can fight Lavos right away LOL) and FF15. You can turn the game on, seconds later you get a timeskip and the final boss. (i kid i kid).

    In gaming I agree that it isn't commonplace, but Zebra does kind of have a point if you look outward. if I buy a movie I don't have to watch the whole thing if i don't want too. I can skip to wherever I want. If I order Chicken Alfredo at a restaurant I can tell them to add or remove whatever I want.

    I can't think of any gaming examples off the top of my head, and I will personally state that I think people "should" play through the story, but the option to skip it should exist and shouldn't be a huge issue among the community. I would also support the idea of SQEX strongly incentivizing players (maybe via a reward structure to visit the Inn and watch cutscenes).

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawrajishxc View Post
    The only noticeably time it went by faster was when holy spamming during speed runs were a thing. It's no big deal if they're not dpsing as it's not going to make it go by that much faster. Not everyone is going to want to play a healing class just to dps during downtime. It's people like you that give gaming communities a bad rep because you think they should be playing a certain way.
    A good Healer can do like 80% of a DPS's damage. That's basically the equivalent of doing a dungeon with 2 DPS or 3 DPS. I don't know about you, but I'd rather 4 man it than 3 man it.

    Also fun fact, it is faster, especially taking into consideration % of time.

  11. #33831
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Except make the dungeon go a lot faster. Healers can do some pretty neat DPS.
    Also please stop with the "who are you to judge". In MMO-group content there is only one way to play correctly: maximizing output while minimizing downtime.
    You can herp-a-derp on your quest mobs while solo all you want.
    I wish more people would stop this "minimize downtown" mindset in MMOs, though. This genre wasn't always about corporatized mentality where time is money and every moment must be maximum efficiency or you're wasting your time. Some of the absolute BEST dungeon runs take twice as long because the group actually chats, geeks out, cuts up, and has fun with each other, despite being strangers.

    WoW's design, which most MMOs have adopted, really did gut the concept of socializing as they altered the MMORPG into the modern MMO of maximized speed and minimum downtime.

    I had countless hours of fun in EverQuest and never once got to max level the entire time. Because you just had fun talking with new friends between fights. The experience of the game and each outing to fight whatever was fun, not the "endgame is the only game" mentality.

    There's a LOT that's been lost from EQ days that MMOs could benefit from. One being adding tons of stuff without saying anything about it and not putting everything in the patch notes. FFXIV does better than others with keeping some surprises out of notes, but not to the level EQ did... conspiracy theories ran wild on the forums over additions the developers randomly added without announcement.

    Oh, but look at me.... I'm rambling again.

  12. #33832
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    A good Healer can do like 80% of a DPS's damage. That's basically the equivalent of doing a dungeon with 2 DPS or 3 DPS. I don't know about you, but I'd rather 4 man it than 3 man it.

    Also fun fact, it is faster, especially taking into consideration % of time.
    You could be the best healer in the world but you're never going to do 80% of a dps's dmg, idk where you came up with that. I said it IS faster, just not by much unless you're doing big pulls in a regular dungeon in which it doesn't matter anyways.

  13. #33833
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Not necessarily "ANYTHING" that brings in more players. Most people don't advocate that and you're just being obtuse Faroth you know better! That said, getting MORE players into the game is good, especially if the cost to existing players is negligible-to-non-existent.
    That is most definitely the mentality I've felt is argued. Anything that brings in more players is better. A sense of community and demographic is irrelevant so long as more players are brought in. I've even seen it directly stated that targeting a certain demographic of player type is asinine and should not be desired, that a community of like minded players is, in fact, inherently negative.

    So like I said above, I'll reserve my right to enrage if/when I start seeing people saying MSQ needs to be removed from each patch because it's "wasting resources" that could go to raiding.

  14. #33834
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawrajishxc View Post
    The only noticeably time it went by faster was when holy spamming during speed runs were a thing. It's no big deal if they're not dpsing as it's not going to make it go by that much faster. Not everyone is going to want to play a healing class just to dps during downtime. It's people like you that give gaming communities a bad rep because you think they should be playing a certain way.
    I guess you never ran ACT.
    Typically I do around half of what a good DPS does. So instead of 2 DPS you would have 2.5DPS, which is an improvement of 25%. More so if the DPS are undergeared / doing it wrong.

    Holy/Assize/Wind-III spamming is still a thing... if your tank pulls more than the 3 mobs per group that is.

    Yes, absolutely you have to play a certain way. Classes are DESIGNED in a way that there is only one direction to follow. Deviate from that and you are essentially playing badly/failing (depending on the severity of the deviation and content difficulty).

    I know today's people are raised with "you are a special snowflake" "you are good just the way you are" "not your fault" while still getting the prize.
    Except... It's a lie.
    We all have to conform and meet other peoples standards (in this case, game designers and the other players), social group games are no different.
    If you go "but Imma like being an ICE mage, ice is cool!", expect to get flak for it. Same would be true for a healer that stands around 80% of the time because mobs hit like wet noodles and there is nothing to heal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Ohhhh did I help contribute with this?
    Both, you and KrayZee back in the day.

  15. #33835
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    "but Imma like being an ICE mage, ice is cool!",
    .......... Ice e what you did there. ಠ_ಠ

  16. #33836
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I wish more people would stop this "minimize downtown" mindset in MMOs, though. This genre wasn't always about corporatized mentality where time is money and every moment must be maximum efficiency or you're wasting your time. Some of the absolute BEST dungeon runs take twice as long because the group actually chats, geeks out, cuts up, and has fun with each other, despite being strangers.
    Oh, I absolutely agree. I still fondly remember a quirky deadmines RP run that took 2 hours.

    Problem is: 99% of the people are not interested in talking.
    They are doing the dungeon for the 65th time in order to get currency or xp etc. Also, most groups chat via TS while playing so they can have the best of both worlds.
    Fact: as long as we steamroll through the content because of [reward] and not because of [hey, I feel like running the vault right now!] efficiency is king, because ultimately: farming is not fun.

  17. #33837
    Scarab Lord Anzaman's Avatar
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    You can't expect me to deal damage as tank, it's my job to take hits and keep them on me, not to deal damage.

    *Only spams Flash in Ex roulette*
    "You don't pay my sub!"

  18. #33838
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawrajishxc View Post
    You could be the best healer in the world but you're never going to do 80% of a dps's dmg, idk where you came up with that. I said it IS faster, just not by much unless you're doing big pulls in a regular dungeon in which it doesn't matter anyways.
    Yeah 80% is a bit high, esp on single target. 50% is more realistic.

    I can put blackmages to shame in short burst AoE scenarios though.
    Dat Assize yo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzaman View Post
    You can't expect me to deal damage as tank, it's my job to take hits and keep them on me, not to deal damage.

    *Only spams Flash in Ex roulette*
    "You don't pay my sub!"
    Well I do have to confess that I regularly slack on dropping grit and doing the DA-SE thing. Just so annoying to be oom when excrement hits fan unexpectedly. ._.

  19. #33839
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzaman View Post
    You can't expect me to deal damage as tank, it's my job to take hits and keep them on me, not to deal damage.

    *Only spams Flash in Ex roulette*
    "You don't pay my sub!"
    Ugh don't remind me. I had a Warrior who did 350 dps in Xelphatol once...

  20. #33840
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillpapps View Post
    Ugh don't remind me. I had a Warrior who did 350 dps in Xelphatol once...
    How did he manage to hold threat? Oo

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