1. #34641
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyriqo View Post
    Speaking with my FC, the shed some light on not buying the pot as I'll lose lorewise. However, I wanna experience endgame and I'm the grindy kind of player. Not that into questing. /shrugs
    Eh, everyone will be levelling for the first couple weeks. Not to mention all the players rerolling RDM and SAM. So if you start now and just go steadily through the MSQ, you'll probably reach max level alongside most players. Not the very edge players, but alongside the main wave.

    Also, I don't think any of the endgame raids are launching with 4.0. I think they start coming in a later patch. So you should be able to catch up in time for those launches.

  2. #34642
    http://i.imgur.com/MQ6cr0r.jpg

    Relevant to discussion. Somewhat. Maybe not.

  3. #34643
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilir View Post
    This basically.




    You should by the pots and look at the lore on youtube or whatever. Seriously the amount of story quests is insane.
    Ahead of you on the lore on youtube thing. And yes the amount of story quest is insane. I know I can get in the wave as @RohanV mentioned but being a FF fan for decades I'm inclined to enjoy SB by buying the pots and playing what I'd love (AST).

    I have limited playing time so I wanna take advantage of it instead of catching up (I know you can do it in 2 weeks or so, but with my schedule it'll take months).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aruhen View Post
    http://i.imgur.com/MQ6cr0r.jpg

    Relevant to discussion. Somewhat. Maybe not.
    Can't wait to be one of them tbh

  4. #34644
    Pandaren Monk The Casualty's Avatar
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    I think the better argument for healers instead of how much DPS they do, instead should be to encourage that the general rule for caster classes, ABC (Always Be Casting) applies to them as well.

    I mean really all jobs, aside from handling mechanics/swaps, should always either have a cast bar going or putting themselves on the global cool down with relevant abilities.

  5. #34645
    When I heal. I dps. When I tank, I expect my healer to dps. When i dps, who am i kidding fuck waiting in a queue. With no stance dancing they should be pushing to tell more healers to dps, not telling them it isn't their job.

  6. #34646
    Removing the stance dance actually has me interested in coming back. I never did end game raiding, but as I became a more competent healer fitting in DPS was a fun challenge. I wouldn't expect someone new to healing to DPS. The competency of the rest of the group also a big impact on being able to throw out DPS. Healers doing end game content should DPS when possible, leveling content depends on the situation, healer experience and other party members.

  7. #34647
    Quote Originally Posted by Fanuilos View Post
    Removing the stance dance actually has me interested in coming back. I never did end game raiding, but as I became a more competent healer fitting in DPS was a fun challenge. I wouldn't expect someone new to healing to DPS. The competency of the rest of the group also a big impact on being able to throw out DPS. Healers doing end game content should DPS when possible, leveling content depends on the situation, healer experience and other party members.
    Exactly.

    Like I said, some people act like it's such an absolute - as if healers should just be DPSing no matter what all the time - and it makes the debate seem so ridiculous, especially to newer or inexperienced healers.

  8. #34648
    I hope with the changes to cleric stance and whatnot that more healers dps. Especially in lower level content where even if someone stands in the bad stuff they won't be one shot. I know I was scared to dps while healing until I got comfortable with cleric stance dancing.

  9. #34649
    Scarab Lord Kaelwryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiaron View Post
    Wouldn't they need something like the Enhanced Raise-Trait to use Verraise in combat?
    They removed those traits from healers, so I assume all raises are base line useable in combat now. Not to mention SMN doesn't have a trait like that.
    Last edited by Kaelwryn; 2017-06-09 at 07:32 AM.

  10. #34650

  11. #34651
    7 DAYS TO EARLY ACCESS

    Starting to get that excited "make sure im doing bugger all that day" feeling.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  12. #34652
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    They removed those traits from healers, so I assume all raises are base line useable in combat now. Not to mention SMN doesn't have a trait like that.
    ACN's default raise didn't have the requirement to begin with, so there was no trait. I think the trait was there to prevent PLDs from combat ressing.

  13. #34653
    Over 9000! Graeham's Avatar
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    My main worry about early access is being too excited to sleep properly the night before.

    Not that I sleep properly anyway due to insomnia but still...

  14. #34654
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzaman View Post
    ___
    There is something very wrong with her face.

  15. #34655
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    The problem with these debates is that a lot of healers - especially in leveling pugs - often find that there's no time to be DPSing at all. Then they get people telling them, "But you're supposed to be DPSing!" and then their paper tank dies in the GCDs that they spend switching stances.
    This is pretty inaccurate across the entire game. Even in leveling (especially some of the earlier dungeons) there's just not any damage going out and healers are almost as potent as DPS. In HW leveling I wore my full DPS setup in Sword Oath, under-geared and 30pts in STR (back in the day), I was the epitome of paper tank. My IRL friend WHM who refuses to DPS was forced to heal full time, but even still I never died in a GCD or two. Not even in big pulls, and dear god especially not bosses, who don't even do damage in this game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    A lot of this stuff about "AFK healers" doesn't even apply until you're overgearing stuff, have a highly competent or careful group, doing downleveled stuff, or largely trivial content with two healers. There's plenty of other times where a healer can hardly stop spamming heals on their tank for even a moment on trash pulls in 4-mans.
    Misleading statement. This game overgears you before the content is even released almost 85%+ of the time. Every new dungeon that is released 90% of the playerbase overgears so technically only very rarely is a dungeon ever attempted at minimum ilvl, and lets be honest, that doesn't make it any harder, it just makes it take longer.

    You mention trivial content, but 85%+ of the content in the game is trivial concerning difficulty. There is very little chance of failure in anything short of EX/Savage. I've heard horror stories of Ozma, so I will include that as well, but that's not a lot of content in the grand scheme.

    I've never even seen a healer needing to spam heals on a tank, not even my STR paper tank required spammed heals.

    Also contrary to what some healers think, every single player doesn't need to be topped off 100% of the time. Once you're out of combat your health regenerates stupid fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    I wish they didn't close that thread.

    It's an important discussion to be had, I think.
    Same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Binaris View Post
    When I heal. I dps. When I tank, I expect my healer to dps. When i dps, who am i kidding fuck waiting in a queue. With no stance dancing they should be pushing to tell more healers to dps, not telling them it isn't their job.
    Agreed. Again, for all to see: I am 100% ok with 0 healer DPS paradigm, but the content needs to be tuned for significantly more healing uptime then, until that happens healers should not be activity average of 17% in a dungeon run.

    The CS change was much needed IMO, but coupling it with that statement sends incredibly mixed signals. It'd be like saying Robbing a bank is illegal, but we've made an industry wide change to leave all the cash sitting out in the lobby on tables. You're telling people not to do something, while simultaneously giving the tools to make it more mainstream/widespread and easier...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Exactly.

    Like I said, some people act like it's such an absolute - as if healers should just be DPSing no matter what all the time - and it makes the debate seem so ridiculous, especially to newer or inexperienced healers.
    As someone who's been incredibly active in said discussion I can count on 1 hand the amount of times someone said "healers should be DPSing no matter what all the time."

    The answer is 0 and I think a lot of posters will back me on that. If you want to make a statement, by all means please do, but keep the discussion grounded in reality and provide examples where applicable.

  16. #34656
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    I wish they didn't close that thread.

    It's an important discussion to be had, I think.
    With 1 week to early access, they may feel there's no additional discussion to be had for the moment. Honestly, I doubt anything new would be contributed at this point. Everything has been said on both sides and now it's just parroting and repeating what's already posted. I've seen claims suggesting some tweaks to WHM may happen for launch in response to feedback, which I guess we'll find out during E3 live letter. Once Stormblood is launched and people have leveled, they'll take fresh feedback again.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2017-06-09 at 12:58 PM.

  17. #34657
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    With 1 week to early access, they may feel there's no additional discussion to be had for the moment. Honestly, I doubt anything new would be contributed at this point. Everything has been said on both sides and now it's just parroting and repeating what's already posted. I've seen claims suggesting some tweaks to WHM may happen for launch in response to feedback, which I guess we'll find out during E3 live letter. Once Stormblood is launched and people have leveled, they'll take fresh feedback again.
    It's also worth noting 1 week before the launch is the time when most dev teams are setting the last few bolts in place and getting everything set to be as smooth as possible. They likely wouldn't be making any real balance changes, aside from obviously broken things which need to be fixed asap, for a bit. So feedback given at this point is largely useless. A month or so afterwards though I'm sure they'll be looking at thoughts and discussions for things to iterate on again.

  18. #34658
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    I've never even seen a healer needing to spam heals on a tank, not even my STR paper tank required spammed heals.
    I've been in a situation before (back when I still did the leveling roulette) in a starter instance where I had to work to keep the tank up, cos they wanted to pull half the trash before the boss at once and it pretty well killed my chance to DPS. On top of it the two DPS had poor AoE due to being synced down so it just made things take longer, cos I was unable to help kill. My gear was strictly leveling gear, white/green stuff of varying levels, maybe some aetherial items.

    So while it's far from the norm, it can and does happen.

  19. #34659
    I had a run once where a DRK had put his points and materia into (I think it was) DEX, but may have been STR. The healer said they were the spikiest, squishiest, tank they'd ever healed and were indeed spam healing them. The tank claimed there was a reason for their "build" and attempted to explain it at the end, but it seemed like total nonsense and only stressed the healer since he still tried pulling everything possible in one mass pull (with two DPS who were not strong on AoE).

  20. #34660
    Thankfully, that "bonus stat selection" is being axed as of Stormblood; combined with right side accessories being job-specific, should end the issue where people would have a pile of what is essentially useless stats (but muh ilvl!).

    Speaking of Stormblood...less than a week away now from early access. I'm ~200 scripture tomes away from my last 270 piece prior to the xpac, yet I have barely lifted a finger to get any. Expert roulette burnout finally set in, but I think it's more of the fact other games are of more interest currently. That changes as of a week from today, though.

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