1. #34861
    People seem to have no idea how intimidating healing is to a "I've never played an MMO before" just purely on NOTHING but the fact that "if I screw up, we wipe and they'll be mad" perception. This whole mess just confirms for many they shouldn't even risk trying it. If they screw up healing, they're bad. If they don't DPS because they're paranoid about screwing up healing, they're bad.

    I realize if it's an experienced healer being lazy that's different, but I still think this whole thing keeps new players or lifelong DPS from every bothering.

    FC has coaxed one new player through this. We have another who tried healing for the first time in any MMO and they're going back to ranged DPS because they don't like the stress of healing.

    Not that it affects me that much either way. I don't play to min/max my time per minute of efficiency, so I guess I haven't noticed the "epidemic" of tragically slow runs caused by lazy healers. I'll leave it to others to raise their blood pressure over these issues.

    I'd be in favor or more healing instensive mobs and bosses in dungeons, though. I agree they're too faceroll, but I blame 8 man normal as the primary culprit causing that.

  2. #34862
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    People seem to have no idea how intimidating healing is to a "I've never played an MMO before" just purely on NOTHING but the fact that "if I screw up, we wipe and they'll be mad" perception. This whole mess just confirms for many they shouldn't even risk trying it. If they screw up healing, they're bad. If they don't DPS because they're paranoid about screwing up healing, they're bad.

    I realize if it's an experienced healer being lazy that's different, but I still think this whole thing keeps new players or lifelong DPS from every bothering.

    FC has coaxed one new player through this. We have another who tried healing for the first time in any MMO and they're going back to ranged DPS because they don't like the stress of healing.

    Not that it affects me that much either way. I don't play to min/max my time per minute of efficiency, so I guess I haven't noticed the "epidemic" of tragically slow runs caused by lazy healers. I'll leave it to others to raise their blood pressure over these issues.

    I'd be in favor or more healing instensive mobs and bosses in dungeons, though. I agree they're too faceroll, but I blame 8 man normal as the primary culprit causing that.
    I m obviously not referring to new players though. Even though I doubt in current dungeons that it would take a pro to notice you can fit in dps.
    I never healed end game content before either and I tried it for the first time in HW and for the most part especially during dungeons I could not help but wonder why people would refuse to dps... literally NOTHING happens. Vaault was the only place that literally pushed my limits a bit more (while lvling) and I could still fit in a little dps.

  3. #34863
    Quote Originally Posted by sahlamuhla View Post
    Saw a post on reddit about a fully geared DRK using nothing but flash throughout a whole dungeon run and his defensive cds when needed because a healer was not dpsing and had 40% overheal. When they asked him why he wasnt dpsing he said his job is to tank.
    I wouldn't have the patience the make a dungeon run that awfully slow for me but imho kuddos to the guy who did this no matter how passive aggressive this was. If that is what it takes to force a healer to dps in trivial content instead of standing afk waiting for the hots to tick then so be it.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...g_nothing_but/

    EDIT: also some of the community restored a little bit of my faith in people on twitter. Somebody twitted "so now that rdm has vercure can we call them bad for not utilizing their whole kit and healing?"
    To which the response was "RDM can heal whenever it does not need to dps. Which is never". I feel like a lot of healers who refuse to dps do not get this part.
    Saw this too, blew my mind. Loved it.

    Quote Originally Posted by sahlamuhla View Post
    When more strict healing mechanics are introduced I promise I ll stfu forever about healers needing to dps.
    Same here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    People seem to have no idea how intimidating healing is to a "I've never played an MMO before" just purely on NOTHING but the fact that "if I screw up, we wipe and they'll be mad" perception. This whole mess just confirms for many they shouldn't even risk trying it. If they screw up healing, they're bad. If they don't DPS because they're paranoid about screwing up healing, they're bad.

    I realize if it's an experienced healer being lazy that's different, but I still think this whole thing keeps new players or lifelong DPS from every bothering.

    FC has coaxed one new player through this. We have another who tried healing for the first time in any MMO and they're going back to ranged DPS because they don't like the stress of healing.

    Not that it affects me that much either way. I don't play to min/max my time per minute of efficiency, so I guess I haven't noticed the "epidemic" of tragically slow runs caused by lazy healers. I'll leave it to others to raise their blood pressure over these issues.

    I'd be in favor or more healing instensive mobs and bosses in dungeons, though. I agree they're too faceroll, but I blame 8 man normal as the primary culprit causing that.
    On one hand I'm very lenient with new players. I've never told a new player how to play optimally. Not once. I've only ever given them tips if they were doing something catastrophically wrong.

    On the other hand, if you're level 60 you're no longer a new healer and my patience for ineptitude wanes considerably quicker.

    I will never berate a single person for trying and failing. I will always pity someone who refuses to try for fear of failure.

  4. #34864
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Saw this too, blew my mind. Loved it.



    Same here.



    On one hand I'm very lenient with new players. I've never told a new player how to play optimally. Not once. I've only ever given them tips if they were doing something catastrophically wrong.

    On the other hand, if you're level 60 you're no longer a new healer and my patience for ineptitude wanes considerably quicker.

    I will never berate a single person for trying and failing. I will always pity someone who refuses to try for fear of failure.
    100% agreed. God knows how many times I wiped my static while switching from PLD to DRK to progress through gordias savage.

  5. #34865
    I find the obsession with healer DPS as a bit silly considering beyond dungeons it tends to get really frantic for them; especially since DPS like to quite literally "stand in the fire" as much as humanly possible.

    That said, I've always been a "stance swapper" because I cannot withstand being idle for any length of time. So the changes to Cleric stance have really excited me. Means I can be a lot more offensively minded now without worrying(thanks to the GCD) I'll be healing like a lemon at a critical juncture. In fact, I think it might be my favorite update as menial as it seems it's a huge deal for me personally.

    In fact I'll be hopping on my AST here soon to complete the story and prepare for the release.

  6. #34866
    Pandaren Monk The Casualty's Avatar
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    After finally deciding to level up my healers, I'm baffled at how people can just sit and do nothing. I did a run on my Scholar a couple of days ago, where one of the DPS and the Tank were green leafs, and I threw 1, exactly 1, heal the entire instance (not counting the push button abilities of Eos) - granted it was a lower level instance, but I've seen people play SCH and just stand there while the fairy main heals the entire dungeon while they quite literally AFK 100% of the time.

  7. #34867
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by The Casualty View Post
    After finally deciding to level up my healers, I'm baffled at how people can just sit and do nothing. I did a run on my Scholar a couple of days ago, where one of the DPS and the Tank were green leafs, and I threw 1, exactly 1, heal the entire instance (not counting the push button abilities of Eos) - granted it was a lower level instance, but I've seen people play SCH and just stand there while the fairy main heals the entire dungeon while they quite literally AFK 100% of the time.
    I feel you. And frankly seeing scholars sitting idly tiggers me 10 times as much compared to seeing AST or WHM not dpsing. One because the god damn fairy takes care of everything in dungeons and 2 because they have the strongest dps kit out of the 3 healers by a mile.

  8. #34868
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Meanwhile, reddit and the official forums will continue to water all the land with tears about their DPS queues being too long and people need to play more tanks/healers.
    Were it not for at least 2 of my FC folks maining tanks, I would be leveling as a tank first. That said, soon as I bring BLM to 70, when I'm not working on gathering/crafting, I'll be running leveling roulettes as a tank job so that I have that covered for whenever FC folks and/or friends aren't on to run stuff.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Casualty View Post
    After finally deciding to level up my healers, I'm baffled at how people can just sit and do nothing. I did a run on my Scholar a couple of days ago, where one of the DPS and the Tank were green leafs, and I threw 1, exactly 1, heal the entire instance (not counting the push button abilities of Eos) - granted it was a lower level instance, but I've seen people play SCH and just stand there while the fairy main heals the entire dungeon while they quite literally AFK 100% of the time.
    But Bane is such a fun button to hit and see all the AIDS go on all the mobs, though...even if it is getting the shit nerfed out of it (thanks, SMN ).

  9. #34869
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sahlamuhla View Post
    EDIT: also some of the community restored a little bit of my faith in people on twitter. Somebody twitted "so now that rdm has vercure can we call them bad for not utilizing their whole kit and healing?"
    To which the response was "RDM can heal whenever it does not need to dps. Which is never". I feel like a lot of healers who refuse to dps do not get this part.
    That is a dumb answer. There are situations where off healing can prevent a wipe, even if it lowers DPS.
    Depends on the actual healing capabilities of the class though. Most of the time, interfering with a healers job will only generate useless overheal.

    PS: I finally completed the main story. Woo, so proud of myself. *-*

  10. #34870
    Over 9000! Graeham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    That is a dumb answer. There are situations where off healing can prevent a wipe, even if it lowers DPS.
    Depends on the actual healing capabilities of the class though. Most of the time, interfering with a healers job will only generate useless overheal.

    PS: I finally completed the main story. Woo, so proud of myself. *-*
    Gratz! Just in time for 4.0, then!

  11. #34871
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    That is a dumb answer. There are situations where off healing can prevent a wipe, even if it lowers DPS.
    Depends on the actual healing capabilities of the class though. Most of the time, interfering with a healers job will only generate useless overheal.

    PS: I finally completed the main story. Woo, so proud of myself. *-*
    It's really not worth it and I only ever healed myself in any game as a means to alleviate the healer's overall focus. I would rarely, if ever, heal another player unless the healer was dead. That said, this is coming from the perspective of a PLD.

    PLD, WHM, AST - never "mained" a dps class nor got one to cap.

    Might go BRD for the expansion though as that was my original desire but my mother "took" it from me. At least this time around it'll be much better designed and play like an actual BRD. >:

  12. #34872
    Just gonna say. This community can sometimes get a bit defensive sometimes methinks.

    Said in chat "I'm not happy with them reducing the amount of Dungeons in Stormblood but I will wait and see what the new content is like".

    People apparently took that as me insulting the entire game and told me to go back to WoW.

  13. #34873
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Just gonna say. This community can sometimes get a bit defensive sometimes methinks.

    Said in chat "I'm not happy with them reducing the amount of Dungeons in Stormblood but I will wait and see what the new content is like".

    People apparently took that as me insulting the entire game and told me to go back to WoW.
    Welcome to gaming.

    Can't critique fuck all and some of the smaller communities get these extreme "clique" type behaviors to them that make them really unpleasant to interact with.

    I remember being frustrated by the inventory issues when I was crafting/gathering and my FC at the time acted like I had just shot their dog. Granted, I should expect as much when you've got little fucking nerds staying up until 4am on a school morning listening to Yoshi and attempting to translate because, "MOI KAWAII GIRL WHO SPEAK JAPANESE SO KEWL!" Don't think I've ever hated a woman as much as her. She was like the worst kind of stereotype with an army of dumb shits following her lead.

    Said anything bad about FFXIV and it was hell to pay. Then some wonder why I get so annoyed with "weeb" stuff. It's not so much the styling and content thereof but the people who often congregate around it.

    That said, blind devotion is something most if not all games suffer from. ...That instance was just particularly taxing.
    Last edited by Rudol Von Stroheim; 2017-06-13 at 06:08 PM.

  14. #34874
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    Welcome to gaming.

    Can't critique fuck all and some of the smaller communities get these extreme "clique" type behaviors to them that make them really unpleasant to interact with.

    I remember being frustrated by the inventory issues when I was crafting/gathering and my FC at the time acted like I had just shot their dog. Granted, I should expect as much when you've got little fucking nerds staying up until 4am on a school morning listening to Yoshi and attempting to translate because, "MOI KAWAII GIRL WHO SPEAK JAPANESE SO KEWL!" Don't think I've ever hated a woman as much as her. She was like the worst kind of stereotype with an army of dumb shits following her lead.

    Said anything bad about FFXIV and it was hell to pay. Then some wonder why I get so annoyed with "weeb" stuff. It's not so much the styling and content thereof but the people who often congregate around it.

    That said, blind devotion is something most if not all games suffer from. ...That instance was just particularly taxing.
    Thats standard for anything though, why specifically hate "weebs". You go to a concert and bash the band, you think you wont get punched in the face? Go to a sports event and bash the local team, your going to be leaving wearing a dozen beers. Sit in any other games lobby, or main city, and bash the game and people are going tell you get lost. Book fan sites, movie fan sites, so on and so on. People invest in their hobbies. They get emotionally attached. They might recognize faults, but they don't want to sit around complaining about their past time. Their trying to enjoy their time.

  15. #34875
    Quote Originally Posted by Resiak1066 View Post
    Thats standard for anything though, why specifically hate "weebs". You go to a concert and bash the band, you think you wont get punched in the face? Go to a sports event and bash the local team, your going to be leaving wearing a dozen beers. Sit in any other games lobby, or main city, and bash the game and people are going tell you get lost. Book fan sites, movie fan sites, so on and so on. People invest in their hobbies. They get emotionally attached. They might recognize faults, but they don't want to sit around complaining about their past time. Their trying to enjoy their time.
    So telling someone to "go back to WoW" is an acceptable response for being barely critical and not even bashing the game?

    All I said was that the 1 dungeon thing had me a bit sceptical but was hopeful the content replacing it would make up for it.

    They acted as though me saying that meant I hated the entire game.
    Last edited by Eleccybubb; 2017-06-13 at 06:24 PM.

  16. #34876
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Just gonna say. This community can sometimes get a bit defensive sometimes methinks.

    Said in chat "I'm not happy with them reducing the amount of Dungeons in Stormblood but I will wait and see what the new content is like".

    People apparently took that as me insulting the entire game and told me to go back to WoW.
    Reducing the amount of dungeons? What's the number count of HW to SB launch? I don't recall seeing anything on dungeon quantity.

  17. #34877
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Reducing the amount of dungeons? What's the number count of HW to SB launch? I don't recall seeing anything on dungeon quantity.
    Odd numbered patches get 1 dungeon instead of 2 and a unique piece of content replaces the lost dungeon. Was in one of the last few live letters if I recall. I was more referring to post launch. Should have been more specific there.

  18. #34878
    Quote Originally Posted by Resiak1066 View Post
    Thats standard for anything though, why specifically hate "weebs". You go to a concert and bash the band, you think you wont get punched in the face? Go to a sports event and bash the local team, your going to be leaving wearing a dozen beers. Sit in any other games lobby, or main city, and bash the game and people are going tell you get lost. Book fan sites, movie fan sites, so on and so on. People invest in their hobbies. They get emotionally attached. They might recognize faults, but they don't want to sit around complaining about their past time. Their trying to enjoy their time.
    You mistaken critique for outright bashing.

    Bashing would be more irrational, less focused and often hyperbolic: "This game sucks. Why do I even play this piece of shit?"

    Critiquing/Complaining is often more specific: "I really hate the inventory limitations. All of my retainers are filled to the max and I still need so much more."
    Last edited by Rudol Von Stroheim; 2017-06-13 at 06:42 PM.

  19. #34879
    Wait. One dungeon? What?

    Nvm. Answered above as I typed.

  20. #34880
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Odd numbered patches get 1 dungeon instead of 2 and a unique piece of content replaces the lost dungeon. Was in one of the last few live letters if I recall. I was more referring to post launch. Should have been more specific there.
    I'm sort of okay with this but like you, skeptical. Depends on what it is and the quality of.

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