1. #36821
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzaman View Post
    Nice, I'm slowly gearing myself with Ex roulette.

    Already started alt jobs tho, Miner 70 and Paladin soon 63.. would have been already, but instance server decided to die and I couldn't continue dungeon spam.
    Premade parties work after a few mins.

  2. #36822
    Scarab Lord Anzaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Premade parties work after a few mins.
    Well, didn't work earlier at least - had full premade and plans to do daily Ex, spent 45 minutes in "Reserving" -step until it booted us off from it.

  3. #36823
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzaman View Post
    Well, didn't work earlier at least - had full premade and plans to do daily Ex, spent 45 minutes in "Reserving" -step until it booted us off from it.
    Oh. Was for me. Did some Doma Castle spam for XP and gear.

  4. #36824
    Quote Originally Posted by Veluren View Post
    Yeah, that's why I don't bother posting in here, at the end of the day no-one can change opinions on this stuff but it's still volatile, so it just ends up being circle jerks and rudeness, something I want no part of.

    Shame, too, I like conversing in here when the conversations to be had are worthwhile.
    I miss Wrecktangle. While I barely agreed with some of the stuff he said I did get where he (?) was coming from. I also enjoyed how there were actually debates going on instead of this useless bickering.

    That sure sounds elitist/echo chambery.
    Yeah, whatever, go on with your back and forth "your wrong, no YOUR wrong" conversations.

    I wish I was as geared as you some of you guys are. I'm here waiting for my friends to catch up as we're taking it easy considering we have another week before Omega.

  5. #36825
    Quote Originally Posted by Aruhen View Post
    I miss Wrecktangle. While I barely agreed with some of the stuff he said I did get where he (?) was coming from. I also enjoyed how there were actually debates going on instead of this useless bickering.



    Yeah, whatever, go on with your back and forth "your wrong, no YOUR wrong" conversations.
    Uhm there was bickering then as well.

  6. #36826
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Uhm there was bickering then as well.
    I'm not denying that but there was a lot of constructive stuff going on too. Now it just seems like its almost all bickering.

  7. #36827
    Quote Originally Posted by Aruhen View Post
    I miss Wrecktangle. While I barely agreed with some of the stuff he said I did get where he (?) was coming from. I also enjoyed how there were actually debates going on instead of this useless bickering.
    I wasn't aware that he stopped posting here, I enjoyed debating with him. Very respectful even if you didn't see eye to eye.

  8. #36828
    Quote Originally Posted by Aruhen View Post
    Yeah, whatever, go on with your back and forth "your wrong, no YOUR wrong" conversations.
    So you don't want conversations like that to take place yet you go ahead and make a comment like this. You'd just have been better off not quoting me and moving on.

  9. #36829
    I have not read the whole conversation but basically : if you're bad, just accept that you're bad and accept that people might want to help you. If you don't accept help because you feel insulted... well then don't complain if get rid of a nuisance like you.

    If you're bad but acknowledge it (nothing wrong with that, not everyone is good by default) and accept criticism : i would never kick you or whatever ... UNLESS this is a farm group where it implies smooth and fast run. It has nothing to do with you as a person, just that you need to improve before you can join me on that sort of content.

    I'm the first one going to help and take my time with new players/bad players that want to improve.

    But if you don't want to, you can just fuck off.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And I'm saying that because I am not perfect myself and I sometimes fuck up, play very poorly (it happens to everyone I think).

    When I was younger I was not really good but I accepted the advices and actually worked to get better.
    _____________________

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  10. #36830
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilir View Post
    I have not read the whole conversation but basically : if you're bad, just accept that you're bad and accept that people might want to help you. If you don't accept help because you feel insulted... well then don't complain if get rid of a nuisance like you.

    If you're bad but acknowledge it (nothing wrong with that, not everyone is good by default) and accept criticism : i would never kick you or whatever ... UNLESS this is a farm group where it implies smooth and fast run. It has nothing to do with you as a person, just that you need to improve before you can join me on that sort of content.

    I'm the first one going to help and take my time with new players/bad players that want to improve.

    But if you don't want to, you can just fuck off.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And I'm saying that because I am not perfect myself and I sometimes fuck up, play very poorly (it happens to everyone I think).

    When I was younger I was not really good but I accepted the advices and actually worked to get better.
    That is pretty much it. I don't think anyone was going further than that really. I know I'd excuse myself or be receptive to help if I was majorly fucking something up, but not everyone is like that. Just people need to not get upset if they get asked to leave/kicked because they won't accept help. I know some people will point to things the devs say but reality does not play out like any dev wants in these games.

  11. #36831
    Instances are back up on EU.

  12. #36832
    So that my words dont get twisted from earlier. Yes I do think its wrong that people do low DPS. If I go on my 62 samurai and just spam 1 combo over and over without even doing sen dumps or kenki dumps I do more than that. My problem is the community embraces this, then anyone who disagrees is elitist. If I as a tank just flashed, and didnt use any dps abilities but Held agro, people would have a field day on me. Same with healers, if all they do is heal and stand around blowing GCD's then people are like use a offensive spell or something. But a DPS underperforming so dramatically, and everyone freaks out.

    The reason some runs IE: Final Steps of Faith, The menagerie, Steps of Faith or other get auto dropped when people go into them is cause there is nothing I can do to help. I cant tell a dps there doing poorly or how to improve, I cant tell the healers to put up dot, I cant tell the tanks to get threat then go dps stance. Your not allowed to give feedback. I ran into a BRD today who did 1400, 600 under what I did at 2k. Why, they didnt know what there songs did, and didnt have there damage cool down on there bar. Work with them on 2 pulls and there already at 2600 boss dps. But If I call out the samurai in DF and try to help him, then Im the idiot who has to burn 30, along with the rest of my group?

    Seriously, if the community could hold each other accountable, then people would find DF would be better not worse. IMHO.

  13. #36833
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgtkreoss View Post
    Seriously, if the community could hold each other accountable, then people would find DF would be better not worse. IMHO.
    But the thing is, more often than not, I'd think they'd just use it as another excuse to kick people. I have no problem with a damage meter for personal use, but one you can throw out in people's faces will serve to drive a wedge further into the group dynamic and instead of help bring people together, drive them apart. People wouldn't care why you do poorly, they just want to cut the dead weight. I think this is the sentiment the devs have and it's why they keep official support for such tools out of the game and make their open use a bannable offense.

    Of course, I have a pretty pessimistic view of people in situations like these, where there are no real consequences for their behavior, as is the case in all such virtual environments.

    That said, I'm in full support of exercising your right to vote dismiss. If it works, it works. If not, oh well. I got vote-kicked out of POTD a while back by someone who 'didn't like my playstyle', apparently charging forward and doing stuff on my own that was taking all 3 of them to do back behind me was an affront for them. They were all in together, and I was the outlier. But so be it, I just requeued and ran on.

    Finished Stormblood. Last trial, got in a group, wiped for 45 minutes until a healer's gear broke, vote abandoned. Next group, wiped once, got it the second try. Took about 2 hours total.

  14. #36834
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgtkreoss View Post
    So that my words dont get twisted from earlier. Yes I do think its wrong that people do low DPS. If I go on my 62 samurai and just spam 1 combo over and over without even doing sen dumps or kenki dumps I do more than that. My problem is the community embraces this, then anyone who disagrees is elitist. If I as a tank just flashed, and didnt use any dps abilities but Held agro, people would have a field day on me. Same with healers, if all they do is heal and stand around blowing GCD's then people are like use a offensive spell or something. But a DPS underperforming so dramatically, and everyone freaks out.

    The reason some runs IE: Final Steps of Faith, The menagerie, Steps of Faith or other get auto dropped when people go into them is cause there is nothing I can do to help. I cant tell a dps there doing poorly or how to improve, I cant tell the healers to put up dot, I cant tell the tanks to get threat then go dps stance. Your not allowed to give feedback. I ran into a BRD today who did 1400, 600 under what I did at 2k. Why, they didnt know what there songs did, and didnt have there damage cool down on there bar. Work with them on 2 pulls and there already at 2600 boss dps. But If I call out the samurai in DF and try to help him, then Im the idiot who has to burn 30, along with the rest of my group?

    Seriously, if the community could hold each other accountable, then people would find DF would be better not worse. IMHO.
    You can say what you want though. You can criticize, you can call people out for bad performance. The only thing you can't do is refer to dps numbers or let on that you run a parser. I've seen plenty of people call out bad tanks, bad healers, and yes bad dps. I've seen plenty of people try to teach other players, and I've seen plenty of people both take and reject that advice.

    And yes. You enacted a vote kick, and it failed. The other people where willing to work with the player and get through the dungeon. This is why I like the community as I tend to see more patience and willingness to help each other then I did in past mmos. It's not perfect. No online communities are, but in my experience, it's one of the better ones.
    Last edited by Resiak; 2017-06-25 at 05:11 AM.

  15. #36835
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resiak1066 View Post
    And again, you formed the party. With expectations. This is different and I would not expect you to leave. My comments are in regards to the duty finder and roulettes. I have no expectations when joining these. Random groups are random groups.
    There is nothing to comment, really.
    Even in DF, if you have a faceroller who does not want to improve and who hinders the group to the point of constant wiping, the faceroller has to go.
    Simple as that.

    While I am annoyed by people who do crap DPS, I rarely kick them solely for that, because in the end, dungeons are so short that it's a 5-10 minute difference at best.

    As for "Giving advice and expecting instant improvement": You all do realize that this is fairly rare, right? Sure, sometimes the mistakes are grand, obvious and easily corrected (like a BLM not using fire or a monk not using rockbreaker in AoE) but doing low DPS b/c having a gap between casts (no. 1 reason for crap DPS in my experience) or having bad DoT/Buff uptime (no. 2 reason) is not as easily corrected within one dungeon run, let alone a complex bossfight. That takes time and practice.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgtkreoss View Post
    Seriously, if the community could hold each other accountable, then people would find DF would be better not worse. IMHO.
    Yes and no. I used to do Log analysis for my raiding guild back in WoW.

    Following problem:
    DPS meters are a complex tool and it requires a fair bit of the following 3 things to read them correctly:
    -class knowledge
    -encounter knowledge
    -statistical knowledge of how a class performs at certain gear points

    Sadly, most of the people (myself included) do not have that knowledge for all classes. They look at the overall number and start bitching, which is very rarely helpful. You need to go in depth in FF-logs in order to assess what exactly the person is doing wrong and why. That's virtually impossible to do during a dungeon run with chain pulls.

    That being said: Yes, I do think DPS should be held accountable for crap performance. Us healers and tanks certainly are (and boy do they flame if I make a repeated mistake).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Resiak1066 View Post
    You can say what you want though. You can criticize, you can call people out for bad performance. The only thing you can't do is refer to dps numbers or let on that you run a parser. I've seen plenty of people call out bad tanks, bad healers, and yes bad dps. I've seen plenty of people try to teach other players, and I've seen plenty of people both take and reject that advice.
    I only say sth if I can see what he is doing wrong and can tell him how to do it right in the same sentence.
    Given that I rarely play DPS, that doesn't happen very often.
    Last edited by Granyala; 2017-06-25 at 07:54 AM.

  16. #36836
    I dunno instead of a dps parser in game, they could put something like a ranking (that only you see) of your performance at the end of a boss/dungeon. Maybe it will wake some people up ?
    _____________________

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  17. #36837
    Finally downed you know who but man did ver raise get a good showing, i earned those 7 commendations!

    RDM pro tip: take the regen cross class skill and after your first aoe melee use manamanipulation to refill so you get 4 full power aoe hits before jumping back for scatter. it was a life saver.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  18. #36838
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilir View Post
    I dunno instead of a dps parser in game, they could put something like a ranking (that only you see) of your performance at the end of a boss/dungeon. Maybe it will wake some people up ?
    Doesn't solve the fact that the community needs to be able to assess DPS damage.

    If a boss wipes us due to enrage I want to know WHO slacked off instead of having to issue blanket statements at all DPS players.
    I don't like to yell at people that perform good.

  19. #36839
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Doesn't solve the fact that the community needs to be able to assess DPS damage.

    If a boss wipes us due to enrage I want to know WHO slacked off instead of having to issue blanket statements at all DPS players.
    I don't like to yell at people that perform good.
    Oh i agree but SE will never solve this issue :/ They are too afraid to offend their playerbase
    _____________________

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  20. #36840
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Doesn't solve the fact that the community needs to be able to assess DPS damage.

    If a boss wipes us due to enrage I want to know WHO slacked off instead of having to issue blanket statements at all DPS players.
    I don't like to yell at people that perform good.
    Honestly i find a detrimental player can easily be spotted if you know the class. Take RDM. I have yet to see a bad RDM use skills like the mini bloodlust or aggro dump, verraise to save healer mana and so on. None of it will show specifically on them for a straight dps meter but like Tolkein said "The party can only move as fast as its slowest member".
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

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