[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Granyala]

The concept of an MMO being "IRL Replacement" or encouraging "Unlimited time" has always been extremely degenerate. Not to mention that it's almost always characterized by shitty treadmills and grinds.

It's a video game, same as any other. It's ok for it to run it's course and be finite. Seeing people act like it's somehow abhorrent to think about logging out and doing something else is just a bit disturbing.

Projection much?

No one except a few extreme cases thinks that way.
Also, no one forces people to do everything there is to do in an MMO. Only people with very poor self control or people with way too much time on their hands (Hi jobless people) even attempt that.
Most players I know pick and choose what they like and do that and none of them has any problem whatsoever to be "done for now" and pursuing another hobby.

Also: some of the expectation of "unlimited stuff to do" certainly stems from the monthly fee that most MMOs ask for.

Personally speaking: FF-XIV is pretty damn close to unlimited for me. Job + Household eat a crapton of my time, then there are my flute and my piano who look at me with puppy-eyes begging for attention, then there are family and friends, my Swiss colleague who wants to play other games too ... phew some days kitty doesn't get played with at all. :X

[Graeham]

I think it's fine for MMO's to be time sinks. Not just for players with a lot of free time but also for those who have minimal free time but want stuff to work towards. Anyone who says FFXIV is lacking in content is almost always incorrect - it has vast swathes of content! It may not be to their tastes, but it's there. Heck, I didn't bother with PvP until the Garo event. I wanted the mounts, achievements, gear sets and titles for the sake of bragging rights. I've since acquired them and now do PvP daily since I want to get things like the Twin Adder PvP mount and the mini airship mount. Not just for bragging rights, but because I find it fun now.

Maybe someday I'll even get into crafting/gathering.

[StrawberryZebra]

I think it's fine for MMO's to be time sinks.

The problem is when they are time sinks exclusively. While FF 14 has done a reasonably good job at avoiding this pitfall, plenty of other MMO's rely on lazy skinner box methods to keep the players engaged.

The good MMO's have time sinks, but don't thrive on how much of the players time they can devour.

[Anzaman]

Just reached level 70 on Machinist.

Then I noticed that I'm still using Zurvan gun.. drop rates seems quite horrible for weapons.

[Kyriani]

Just reached level 70 on Machinist.

Then I noticed that I'm still using Zurvan gun.. drop rates seems quite horrible for weapons.

Do your level 70 class quest. You'll get a 290 weapon and a 290 left side set.

[Anzaman]

Do your level 70 class quest. You'll get a 290 weapon and a 290 left side set.

Aye, already done - it's just that even in 69 dungeon, I was still shooting with my good old HW gun.

[Kaelwryn]

Aye, already done - it's just that even in 69 dungeon, I was still shooting with my good old HW gun.

I got to 70 on AST without changing from Canopus Lux. =\

[Granyala]

The problem is when they are time sinks exclusively. While FF 14 has done a reasonably good job at avoiding this pitfall, plenty of other MMO's rely on lazy skinner box methods to keep the players engaged.

I guess this is why Legions endgame didn't click at all with me.
It's all "run this, run that you MIGHT get sth with a low % chance".

I vastly prefer FF-XIV where I can see right away how much effort sth is going to take and can decide off the bat if it is worth it for me.

- - - Updated - - -

I got to 70 on AST without changing from Canopus Lux. =\

Same with my WHM me thinks.
Dork was more lucky, had stashed away a 300 weapon from expert.

[zito]

I used my 60 rdm weapon all the way to 70. Saw one weapon drop but lost the roll cause it had to be in the one group we got double rdm

[Berethos08]

You do not have access to your job defining abilities for at least 50 levels, usually 60 and in most cases even level 70.

Most jobs get several job defining abilities starting around level 30, not 50. Some don't get the final piece until close to or at 70, but suggesting that you don't have any job defining abilities until level 50 or later is just flat out wrong.

Bard - you get your first song at level 30, your second song at level 40, and the final song at level 52. Everything else is supplemental to the "singing archer" that is fully established by that time and began at level 30.

Ninja - Mudras are a major component, and you have all three plus your speed boost buff by level 45. Everything else builds off of that base.

Monk - the core, which is based around building and maintaining Grease Lightning Stacks, is in place by level 40.

Black Mage - switching between Umbral Ice and Astral Fire is pretty much a thing from level 2, and everything all the way to 70 builds on that early base.

Summoner - this one does straddle the line more...all pets are available by level 45, as are your dots and most main spells, so it has those defining abilities well before 50...but the other half of the job, with Dreadwyrm Trance, doesn't fall into place until level 60. Still, DWT isn't the only job defining ability of the job.

Dragoon - similar to the above, it has many of its abilities pre-50, starting with the jumps given at level 30, but the second half of its identity in Blood of the Dragon doesn't start until 54. Later bloomer as well, but still has job defining abilities well before it reaches that point.

Machinist is another one like those two - you get Reload and Quick Reload from the get-go (since the job starts at 30) and Wildfire in the 30s and that's definitely a job defining ability, but you also don't get the heated versions of abilities until level 64.

Red Mage and Samurai...even though Red Mage starts at 50, if you look at the levels of the various abilities, it can use most of its kit by level 40, and its signature Dualcast is available from level 1. Samurai has its job defining Iaijutsu ability at level 30 (though it does take till level 50 to gain access to all three Sen...but then again, that's where you start).

Healers - all pretty much have their identity as a healer solidified pretty early on, and the abilities you get as you level do more to reinforce that identity instead of being the job defining aspect.

Tanks enjoy a similar place, where added abilities as they level reinforce the job defining abilities given in the 30-40 range.

So I definitely challenge the notion that you don't have access to your job defining abilities for "at least 50 levels" much less anything higher than that...and it looks like I've got evidence to back up my claim.

[xuros]

My character is still very low. 34 or close to it. If i decided to come back would i have to complete all of two xpacks story lines or would i be able to level up and pick up the new story line with the newer xpack? Also is there a way to turn off that stupid mount music? I like the score from the game but HATE that dumb chocobo music and the music that plays when you mount up.

[Anzaman]

Also is there a way to turn off that stupid mount music?

System Configuration -> Sound Settings -> "Play music when mounted."

[lawow74]

My character is still very low. 34 or close to it. If i decided to come back would i have to complete all of two xpacks story lines or would i be able to level up and pick up the new story line with the newer xpack?

You can slog through it or you can buy a story skip potion for I think $15.

[StrawberryZebra]

So I definitely challenge the notion that you don't have access to your job defining abilities for "at least 50 levels" much less anything higher than that...and it looks like I've got evidence to back up my claim.

You will not unlock both Enochian and Fire 4 on a BLM until level 60 - Both of which are hands down the most important skills in your rotation. You won't be able to experiment with Enochian until level 54 either. Astral Fire and Umbral Ice do get you into the habit of switching your spells up, but how the job plays changes massively at 60. At no point before you unlock both will your DPS plummet should you lose AF or UI.

SMN gets Dreadwyrm at 58, but Bahamut at 70. Given how central Bahamut is to the SMN play style now, not having access to it sooner really does leave you feel like you're playing half a job.

SCH won't get Lustrate, you know one of the two skills they'll actually use their Aetherflow on, until level 50. The other one is at 52.

MCH don't get Gauss Barrel untll 52, which unlocks their Heat Gauge - By far their most important mechanic for Stormblood. Ammo is functionally just extra damage on your next 3 abilities and doesn't really constitute a seperate mechanic by itself. You won't get the skills to properly manipulate your Heat until 62 and 66, leaving you playing an incomplete class for 30+ levels.

DRG's don't get Blood of the Dragon until 54, nor do they get both Fang and Claw and Wheeling Thrust until 58. All of which are key parts of the DRG's damage rotation.

PLD's don't get to play around with their Oath Gauge until they get Sheltron at 52. DRK's don't unlock any skills that use their blood gauge until 62. WHM's don't get access to their lillies until 52, nor will they get chance to familiarise themselves with the Confession mechanic before it's dropped on them at 70.

I could harp on for a while about this, but hopefully I've made my point. Just because not every Job will be out in the cold until level 70, doesn't mean that for most of them the interesting parts don't come well after level 50. Some melee classes don't even get beyond a two button combo until level 30! I realise that they're deliberately keeping things simple for first time MMO players, but locking away huge shifts in class play style at higher levels is doing all of your players a diservice.

[Granyala]

So I definitely challenge the notion that you don't have access to your job defining abilities for "at least 50 levels" much less anything higher than that...and it looks like I've got evidence to back up my claim.

As far as I am concerned, low level gameplay is irrelevant.
Esp when stuff changes so drastically like it did with BLM once you hit 60 in HW. That is, imho, bad design b/c low level is supposed to teach you how to play the class.
Spreading out abilities, so you don't get 4 filled up bars all at once and learn to play the class properly by being exposed to situations where you could assess when a given spell new works and when not used to be the point pf leveling.
Nowadays, it's just used as a timesink filled with meaningless freeloot content standing in your way of actually interesting gameplay at endgame.

Don't get me wrong: super early level should be freeloot, so the game is newbie friendly. After lv 20 difficulty should GRADUALLY ramp up to the point that you get a SMOOTH transition up to savage raiding at max level.

WoW and FF are more like: all content is a 1 maybe a 2 or 3 (eg Shinryu). Then savage raiding drops a 10 on the player.

[Berethos08]

I could harp on for a while about this, but hopefully I've made my point.

Yeah, you've made the point clear that you don't actually understand the difference between "job defining abilities" - things like Bard songs or Dragoon jumps or Summoner pets or Black Mages Fire and Ice abilities - and "job defining rotations" - the application of the job defining abilities in a certain way, often supplemented by another key skill - as your examples all include examples of the latter.

My whole point was showing how you start getting key job defining abilities long before you get those - what those abilities that you list do is largely *complete* the job, but they are not the sole job defining elements...nearly all of which you start getting in the 30s (if not earlier).

Of course, if what you really meant was that jobs don't become interesting until they get more of the mechanics, and that happens far too late for too many jobs, then I'll tend to agree.

But "getting job defining skills" and "getting job defining rotations" are related but not the same.

Also, did you not notice that I mentioned several of the same examples you used as part of my point, and even point out that some jobs don't feel complete until you get those abilities in the 50s, 60s, or at 70?

It's almost as if you read my first sentence and rushed to respond.

[dope_danny]

Its been too long now since i had a bullshit weapon grind, Relics for 4.1?

Hopefully now i main RDM i get a good looking one for once.

[Aruhen]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...over_there_in/

well here we go again with the speculation like Void Ark in 3.0.

[Granyala]

But "getting job defining skills" and "getting job defining rotations" are related but not the same.

Getting job defining rotations is what matters and what gets in far, far too late in the leveling process.

[Anzaman]

Send help! Ever since I got music roll from Lost Canals, I've been stuck in my house, with door locked.