[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[StrawberryZebra]

Yeah, you've made the point clear that you don't actually understand the difference between "job defining abilities" - things like Bard songs or Dragoon jumps or Summoner pets or Black Mages Fire and Ice abilities - and "job defining rotations" - the application of the job defining abilities in a certain way, often supplemented by another key skill - as your examples all include examples of the latter.

I was talking from a strictly mechanical point of view. In most cases, getting access to the mechanics that make your job different to others is tied to the levels different sections of the job gauge are unlocked. Bard songs are cool and all, but they're not what makes playing a Bard feel different to a Machinist. Giving the Ninja Jump skills won't automatically make it play like a Dragoon.

Jobs are defined by more than just their surface elements and sharing abilities with older FF jobs of the same name.

[Graeham]

I'm glad that more and more 1.0 music is being added to the game. It's pretty great - though I do love the stuff from 2.0, 3.0 and 4.0 as well.

[threads]

i did it guys

[Kaelwryn]

Nice, congrats! I'm at 4/12.

[Anzaman]

Gz, 7/12 here.

[Ragnarocket]

0/12

I've never been online when it's up. Sad day...

[Anzaman]

And that's that - O1S down on first evening, 3 fights left.

[Skizzit]

So as a recovering WoW mini pet addict, I saw pictures and videos of many of the minions in FFXIV before I ever played the game and in particular, the Lesser Panda pet. I always knew that as soon as I leveled up, I would hunt down where that little guy came from and make it mine. Well, today I did my first ever run of Palace of the Dead, having no idea what kind of rewards you could get outa there besides xp and wouldn't you know it, I got myself my own Lesser Panda out of the very first sack I had appraised! And then, while still reeling from that excitement and surprise, I got the flying kitten minion out of the third sack! This game is totally going to reignite my pet addiction...

[Graeham]

@Anzaman Congratulations!

@Skizzit I feel you. I, too, spent a lot of time collecting minions - and mounts - in WoW and FFXIV is no different! In case you do not know already, you can use /beckon to encourage some minions to perch atop your character's shoulder. Some minions also have special animations and interact with certain other minions.

[Faroth]

I actually have taken to not doing MSQ roulette simply because I'm one of the many who would only be there for the (bonus) tomes, and they are tomes I am in zero honest need of at this point. I have been dumping any and all poetics on umbrite for the past 2 weeks and almost have enough to finish the rest of the anima weapons. So with the MSQ roulette, I'd be in there on a tank job pretty much pulling the entire dungeon at once. It was fun to do that a dozen or so times, but after a while it reaches the point of "why do I do this", so nope. I actually agree with calls to make those two dungeons solo instances, thus allowing new players to experience them with cutscenes and all instead of being stuck in cut scene hell while the rest of the group plows through the entire dungeon.

Most people running them are either there for tomestones or the xp bonus now. Pretty rare to get the new player bonus.


Got to 310 Creation, so EX/Trial tonight and then Omega (which I forgot about) tonight will cap. Didn't play much at all this weekend or last week. Been busy with other things lately. Paladin is 70, so NIN up next so the retainer can start leveling. Probably won't push that too strongly and settle into a comfortable routine to go back and knock out Assassin's Creed: Unity before Uncharted in late August.

Having finished the paladin job quest.... meh. Didn't care for it. I wish the quests would be more focused on wicked plots and stopping crime in Ul'dah. There wasn't much "knight of justice" or holy knight vibe from the quest in Stormblood except one point.

[Deleted]

Struggling to be motivated for get RDM 70. Main is BLM but i want a backup class, RDM is interesting. NIN and CUL @ 70 too.

Anyone have a 70 rotation for RDM?

Also did 1s the other night, 2 try and we downed it. Watching a vid on it made it appear much harder then it was. Was happy with my dps as there is so much movement and i fucked up Ench buff, lost it for 20 secs! finished on 3400 at 314i

[Wrecktangle]

My point is that you can't afk and accomplish the goal, you have to pay attention and do something constantly or else you won't be there for the FATE and won't get credit, even if that something is incredibly simple.

If you're in a group, you can totally AFK for credit. I've done it and I've seen tons of people do it. I've even seen it where an entire 8 man group was AFK because everyone had the same idea LOL.
If you're solo and there are other people there killing it, run in press flash a bunch, or AOE some mobs and leave. 2 mins later a gold icon pops up on your screen (source: I've done it over a hundred times).

You definitely don't need to pay attention to auto pilot to a location or spam a few AOEs and leave.

Leveling sucks in any game because you spend days with a barely functional character just to fill the bar x times.
That's why I always use the most effective method. With effective I mean "least time spent per level".
It doesn't get much more effective than leveling off the bonus from daily random dungeon, esp if you blitz through with friends.

Strictly speaking from my experience I usually enjoy the leveling more than end game in most games because a tired ass ilvl grind isn't fun to me. When games gives you more than just ilvl or gear to grind it's usually keeps me interested longer. That's why I like leveling so much. You're constantly unlocking new things that change up gameplay. That's why if you remember my dream MMO post way back was tailored around the idea that a perpetual skill engine allows you to constantly create and hone skills to change your gameplay whenever you "needed"(enemy, area, boss, etc.) too or "wanted" (bored, came up with a new idea, etc.) too.

I guess this is why Legions endgame didn't click at all with me.
It's all "run this, run that you MIGHT get sth with a low % chance".

I vastly prefer FF-XIV where I can see right away how much effort sth is going to take and can decide off the bat if it is worth it for me.

Not counting relic grinds of course right . Just the opposite is why I get annoyed with FF14's endgame. I can log on 1x a day and be done for an entire week in less than 2 hours total if I don't raid savage. I have x amount of tomes to accrue a week and 1x normal raid part to acquire.

The advantage that M+ had is that I didn't chase any upgrades off it (I never do off RNG that's a recipe to kill yourself over or get burned out). I played it because it was fun and challenging and occasionally offered me direct power rewards, artifact currency (which empowered my character in ways that weren't always ilvl based). That to me is an infinitely better system for character progression. Now granted I'm a player with self control and have a career/home/SO/hobbies so naturally I play less, but I also avoid specific things that will burn me out.

The problem I have with FF14 at end game is that there's not even any content to do that. I'm ilvl 320 or so and I haven't set foot in savage because I haven't been motivated to find a static. I could pug for sure and I very well may, but other than leveling up jobs I don't have any aesthetic interest in the only content left is menu based content or grinding things I've already grinded (ground?) countless times for reasons none other than to kill time. That means that I play effectively 2-3 hours a week, 10 a month. It's hard to justify even a paltry $13 or whatever a month on that. I get frustrated because I truly think the game can be more.

Sidequests (They're not rewarding just xp, challenging/engaging, repetitive in tasks, tedious to solo and obnoxious when too many are doing them)
Daily quests (They're not rewarding just xp, challenging/engaging, repetitive in tasks, tedious to solo and obnoxious when too many are doing them)
Palace of the Dead (It's not rewarding just xp, challenging/engaging, repetitive, tedious to solo)
Dungeons (They're not rewarding just xp, challenging/engaging, repetitive)
24 mans (They're not rewarding, challenging/engaging, repetitive)
Trials (They're not rewarding, challenging/engaging, repetitive)
Guildhests (They're not rewarding, challenging/engaging, repetitive)
Leves (They're not rewarding, challenging/engaging, repetitive)
Crafting (It's not rewarding, challenging/engaging, repetitive)
And some would argue Main Scenario quest chain fits those requirements.

Conveniently leaving only one thing: Raiding.

So yeah, it's the same tired argument I've seen dozens upon dozens of times. "Raiding is the only real content, everything else is a waste of resources." And you've made it pretty clear you find anything other than Mythic/Savage content to be pretty much trash.

@ Guildhests - Actually at their time were very forward thinking. I actually was impressed by them and their purpose. They were a tutorial of sorts. They demonstrated failure or significant difficulty if you ignored the lesson they were teaching you (adds, mechanics, timing, telegraphs, etc.). Nowadays with level sync being way overtuned people just blow through them so they no longer have value which is unfortunate. If you asked me back then if they were rewarding I would say yes.

@ Crafting - would be fine if it was actually relevant (IMO of course). The problem is that gil is an unnecessary resource (you don't need it for anything). Couple that with the fact that crafting doesn't offer anything necessary (due to accessibility) and you get something that is just woefully underutilized given how neat its system is. If you harken back to my dream MMO post you'd remember that crafting was actually at the forefront of the gameplay. You explored to fight and gather to create ever more diverse and powerful tools and enchantments. It was a power loop that the more effort you put it, the better your return, which then allowed you to go even further and do even more.

@ Dungeons - would be fine if they scaled appropriately. Sync shouldn't be max IMO. It should be the absolute bare minimum to survive. If you wanted me to really wishlist it, I'd make them scale UP. Not us DOWN. They could find ways to make them more engaging (a la random modifiers). In fact, this just gave me an even better idea:

Remember I proposed the battle arena a while back? What if the battle arena was FF14's own M+ system? What if you went to Gold Saucer, you could get put into a trial or dungeon randomly. It syncs upwards (i.e. max level, but min ilvl), and each party member rolls a dice and then the system randomly selects one (or if there were multiple of the same it picks that one). Give a way like Wondrous Tails (reroll points, etc., make them harder to accrue/store) to swap out bad combos of debuffs.

You could have 20% less HP (maybe even 50%). Materia could be broken (imagine my materia system, not the boring stuff now). Enrage (once enemies hit 50% hp they begin casting an enrage ability) that if they're not killed by then they do tons of damage (making CC more relevant). Also means AOEing down could be riskier. What if there was a reverse run modifier? I.e. you started at the end, and had to get out before a timer ended (Super Metroid escape sequences go!)? No telegraphs modifier? Escort Modifier, that enemies would actually be programmed to drop aggro and harass at times? Maybe IronMan modifier? Anytime anyone dies every gets weakness or you only get X amount of res's a run or both?

The idea would be that these stat modifiers and dungeon modifiers could stack up making wildly different dungeon adventures. It adds a system where things are repeatable, engaging and challenging. We could even add Trials into this. Imagine Garuda EX, scaled for level 70, where there are no telegraphs and you have 50% less HP, and you can only res 2x. You'd probably need tank LB to survive the ultimate attack, etc. What if we added positive roulette functions to it via some reward? Like if you did something well maybe there was an item you could burn to add a positive dice roll. It could have vuln down buffs, damage up buffs, faster GCDs/spell speed, increased HP, faster LB generation, permanent sprint, etc.

The harder part IMO would be building a reward structure of this. Gil, Tomestones, etc. would suck. Gear is too binary for it to be relevant here. Relic weapon wouldn't work people would rage its gated behind content that you have to keep your eyes open to succeed. Thoughts?

@ Trials - are good. I have very little issue with them other than the recent 2's level of difficulty/fluidity.

@ 24 mans - actually 24 man raids are their own biggest problem. I think they'd be completely badass tuned at low savage difficulty (the kind people are literally pugging right now) for 8 people. Something to explore and fight cool new bosses. IMO large party content really just isn't that much fun, especially considering how separated from the other alliances you are. I found 10 man raiding much more fun than 25m in WoW, and I never found "large scale seige content very fun". Again, strictly IMO.

@ Leves/Sidequests, Beast Tribe Quests - the biggest issue with these is that they just don't do anything other than the bare minimum. These should be mechanisms that supplement FATEs and make the world feel alive. They should find ways to make these impact the zone they're in and make people want to go look for them or do them. I have very little ideas to supplement this ideology.

Again, this is all IMO. I'm pulling data based on a decade+ of playing tons of different MMO's and models and what aspects to those games that I liked.

You know in WoW, getting transmog was a 2 year active debate? Practically an all out tooth and nail fight to claw for it, across 6 capped threads (every thread maxed out the number of replies) that was constantly argued against because it "wasn't content" and would detract from getting content, i.e., more raids and was a waste of time nobody wanted or would use.

Primarily because raiders didn't see the point and thus dismissed it with the simple phrase "that's not content."

Yep I'm familiar with it. I even took part in it (Which side do you think I was on?). I love side content as much as the next guy I truly do. I just think the side content we have kinda sucks. It doesn't offer a ton of replay-ability, depth, or reward. I don't find clicking on shit in menu's fun. I'll give you an example with WoW I think I told you about before. Back in the day of Garrisons and mission boards, I was INCREDIBLY disappointed with the approach they took of making it menu based. I would MUCH rather have had the content be me and my followers actually going out into the world, and fighting off the mark I signed up for. Let's say I was a DPS and the mark called for taunt, and healing. I'd know to grab a tank NPC and a healer NPC. If it asked for high DPS maybe the damage it dealt wasn't super high, but the DPS check required I bring 2 DPS with me (so triple DPS), and not miss an interrupt. They could have used the *shudders* action button to control my other 2 DPS' interrupts. Shit like that would be fun, repeatable, engaging content. Nope they went with menu content. /sigh.

But what do FATEs do that other content doesn't do better? Keeps the world alive and active. It keeps people out there doing things rather than every zone being a complete ghost town since everyone is sitting in a city or their Order Hall queueing for their next mini-game attraction run.

I could posit that the MSQ technically does this better, invalidating your point. I say this because when I was doing Atma's a couple weeks ago, It was a ghost town everywhere I went. I farmed so many FATEs alone. The only time someone came to help me was a sprout. Thus, evidence points to the MSQ doing this better than FATEs do.

So yeah, I like doing FATEs sometimes. I wish they were more active for longer through the life of each expansion rather than just the first week. I do wish there were more FATEs like Foxy Lady and Ixion. Foxy Lady was pretty fun, even if the mechanics aren't hard once you know the three main things she'll do. Could they be better? Absolutely, they could have more impact on the world, especially for failing them. But they're still a form of content.

Meh game crashing FATEs aren't my idea of fun personally, but I can't disagree with the statement that it does apply to others. I know cat ears gets a lot of kids wet. Not my cup of tea though. I'd even bet some FF14 players would literally murder someone to get their miqote a SECOND set of cat ears. lol I think I'm kidding... I hope...

I'd love to see zones with 3-4 FATEs that spawn simultaneously with Ixion/Foxy Lady/Odin/Bahamut scale FATEs that can't be "down 1, move to the next" but need to be downed within a time of each other, spreading groups out and making you have to legit deal with them rather than swarming one at a time. Or dealing with them in different orders has different effects, makes them harder/easier, etc. Zone wide events utilizing FATEs would be great, especially if they had negative impacts on players as a whole for failing them. But sadly, if such a thing happened? Players would be furious their precious time was impacted by something they weren't a part of. How dare the world have consquences? How dare the game not be entirely for them the moment they log in! And this is why we can't have nicer, more exciting, things.

I'm not super enthused by your 1st example, but I know that you and I long for days requiring a cooperative community so I can respect that and get on board with the concept for sure.

Another improvement I wouldn't mind seeing that actually could be implemented? Merge Legion's World Quest system concept with FATEs and have some that last longer, despite players completing their requirements, and grant a variety of rewards. Maybe a FATE is up for 30 minutes in Yanxia that gives 10 tomestones of Creation. Maybe another in Azim Steppe gives 5,000 gil. One thing I did like a lot about the World Quest system was being able to target my goals (do I want resources, gold, crafting item, gear, etc) and I could go after the ones that granted what I needed at the time. The same with FATEs in XIV offering: Bonus XP, Tomestones (and it could be some give verity, some creation), gil, GC seals, allied hunt marks, etc.) would be a cool update on the system.

I'd be on board with that. What i'd also like is the ability for FATEs to scale. Let me use a job I want to level to farm max level stuff so I am not feeling like I'm missing out. You could actually get me doing FATEs if they offered rewards similar to WQs, and let me level sub jobs.

But anyway, yeah, they're still content. They're just content you don't like. But then, again, you've voiced you don't particularly like dungeons and 24 mans either, for largely the same basic reasons - you don't find them engaging and find them repetetive. That's an opinion. It's not somehow non-content.

Sorry this has been a staggering read. I do appreciate if you actually read it. I clarified earlier that when I say it's not content, it is explicitly my opinion. It is not a fact, nor is it anyone elses. I merely stated my opinion, and cite examples that support my case. As always I welcome anyone to discuss or refute my examples or add their own.

[Kazgrel]

I got to 70 on AST without changing from Canopus Lux. =\

I did the same with WHM. Didn't upgrade a single item from 60-70, but considering that a majority of xp for that was via leveling and 50-60 roulette, it wasn't necessary. I did get Castrum Abania a couple of times and only once did I struggle...but in that one case, the tank had barely 32k hp (for reference's sake, my level 60 tanks have ~35k).

- - - Updated - - -

@Anzaman Congratulations!

@Skizzit I feel you. I, too, spent a lot of time collecting minions - and mounts - in WoW and FFXIV is no different! In case you do not know already, you can use /beckon to encourage some minions to perch atop your character's shoulder. Some minions also have special animations and interact with certain other minions.

Found out by sheer accident that the new turtle minion (Ghido) will "fight" with any nearby Exdeath minion. Got a good laugh out of that.

- - - Updated - - -

Most people running them are either there for tomestones or the xp bonus now. Pretty rare to get the new player bonus.


Got to 310 Creation, so EX/Trial tonight and then Omega (which I forgot about) tonight will cap. Didn't play much at all this weekend or last week. Been busy with other things lately. Paladin is 70, so NIN up next so the retainer can start leveling. Probably won't push that too strongly and settle into a comfortable routine to go back and knock out Assassin's Creed: Unity before Uncharted in late August.

Having finished the paladin job quest.... meh. Didn't care for it. I wish the quests would be more focused on wicked plots and stopping crime in Ul'dah. There wasn't much "knight of justice" or holy knight vibe from the quest in Stormblood except one point.

I'm not even really hurting for xp that bad now (BLM, WHM and DRK at 70, so anything else is for funsies). Let alone poetics...between 50-60 roulette and hunts, I'm bathing in those things. Almost have enough umbrite stocked away to finish the remaining 5 anima weapons.

[Faroth]

I'm not even really hurting for xp that bad now (BLM, WHM and DRK at 70, so anything else is for funsies). Let alone poetics...between 50-60 roulette and hunts, I'm bathing in those things. Almost have enough umbrite stocked away to finish the remaining 5 anima weapons.

Understandable, but I was initially noting the MSQ as a way to break up PotD grinding to level, so.... that was kinda the point. Once you're done leveling, obviously it's not as big of a factor.

[Kazgrel]

Understandable, but I was initially noting the MSQ as a way to break up PotD grinding to level, so.... that was kinda the point. Once you're done leveling, obviously it's not as big of a factor.

I used it during HW, pre-PotD, for leveling up tank jobs in particular. Chain pulling from start to whatever wall/gate was presented was fun for a bit...then it got as old as how PotD is for most folks now.

Good thing is that there's a healthy amount of options available, although I do sympathize with dps, since queues for anything that isn't PotD takes forever and ten days.

[Faroth]

I do sympathize with dps, since queues for anything that isn't PotD takes forever and ten days.

And here I am just starting to level NIN next... T-T

Probably do HW beast tribes for the first 3 levels and hunt bills while waiting for queues to pop. Or I'll do a lot of pvp, which doesn't take too long to pop and gives decent xp even if you lose.

[Daws001]

Struggling to be motivated for get RDM 70. Main is BLM but i want a backup class, RDM is interesting. NIN and CUL @ 70 too.

Anyone have a 70 rotation for RDM?

Also did 1s the other night, 2 try and we downed it. Watching a vid on it made it appear much harder then it was. Was happy with my dps as there is so much movement and i fucked up Ench buff, lost it for 20 secs! finished on 3400 at 314i

I was just thinking of giving BLM a go now that SAM and RDM are at 70. Here's a great RDM guide on their official forums.

[Katchii]

If you're in a group, you can totally AFK for credit. I've done it and I've seen tons of people do it. I've even seen it where an entire 8 man group was AFK because everyone had the same idea LOL.
If you're solo and there are other people there killing it, run in press flash a bunch, or AOE some mobs and leave. 2 mins later a gold icon pops up on your screen (source: I've done it over a hundred times).

You definitely don't need to pay attention to auto pilot to a location or spam a few AOEs and leave.

But you do. Not very much admittedly, but you still have to open your map, locate the FATE, get on your mount, point yourself in the right direction, get to the FATE, dismount, level sync if necessary and then activate the necessary abilities to get credit. You cannot simply AFK and get credit, you can only AFK after doing the above set of things. You have to participate....a minimal amount admittedly, but you have to repeat the above steps every 2-3 minutes minimum to make FATE grinding worthwhile (if you can even find a group, but that's a different story). I'm not arguing that it's fantastic, engaging/ fun game play, but you have to be engaged...meaning you have to participate you have to be aware and do things, you have to make decisions and take action...even if those decisions and actions are incredibly minimal.

[Kazgrel]

And here I am just starting to level NIN next... T-T

Probably do HW beast tribes for the first 3 levels and hunt bills while waiting for queues to pop. Or I'll do a lot of pvp, which doesn't take too long to pop and gives decent xp even if you lose.

Do the HW beast tribes for DoW/M have scaling xp for 60+? I did not think to try them out.

[lawow74]

Do the HW beast tribes for DoW/M have scaling xp for 60+? I did not think to try them out.

No, the XP caps at around 103k per. The mobs keep scaling up, though, which is mildly annoying, but...meh, still not very tough. If you do them and all the HW Hunts you get around 1.2M XP a day.