[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[zito]

What delayed release?

That's how patches have worked since forever.

4.35 usually contains mini stuff and Eureka within the later patch after.

It's always been their patch layout. Example being 3.X having the main stuff like story, raids and whatnot, 3.X5 having the minor content pieces like Palace of the Dead and so on.

3.35 contained Palace of the Dead just like 4.35 has Heaven on High.

Your point is what? That because they've been doing it for awhile that it's justified? Cause it's not.

[Eleccybubb]

Your point is what? That because they've been doing it for awhile that it's justified? Cause it's not.

Complaining about it now when it's been a thing for the past 5 years seems kind of odd. Calling it delayed is flat out wrong too. It's how they've done their patches since 2.0.

The pacing of content really isn't that bad. Patch 4.3 was 21st May. 4.35 is right on schedule. The only thing delayed so far was the original Eureka. Which I agree from what it was I find it hard to understand why it was delayed.

Saying that how they deliver content being justified is subjective. Some like the way it's paced and others don't. As someone who plays casually I personally think it's fine. However the variety of content needs some work.

[Granyala]

The only thing delayed so far was the original Eureka. Which I agree from what it was I find it hard to understand why it was delayed.

Easy:
The tester team did not have the NM train and had to level / farm the conventional way.

[Eleccybubb]

Easy:
The tester team did not have the NM train and had to level / farm the conventional way.

HAH.

But yeah Eureka is literally just an instanced FATE zone. With the odd quest.

Sadly I imagine the next iteration Pagos won't be so different since the feedback they got won't have made it in time for this one.

[Granyala]

Even then, most retro fans actually liked it.

[Wrecktangle]

That's just a consequence of many players wanting to be entertained constantly to justify spending hours each day online. The developers can only pump out so much content with each new patch, so a lot of it ends up involving a 'grind' to varying degrees in order to make it last.

While what you're saying is 100% true, it's also incredibly misleading. There's a staggering difference between a shelf life of 3 hours and a shelf life of 3 months. Both offer entertainment and rewards, but one is clearly more valuable to an MMO player. FF14 consistently designs content that is either DoA, or dead shortly after. Compare that to something like Mythic +. That's not good design, and a pretty coat of paint can only hide it for so long.

I don't think it's the grinding that gets to people so much. Games like Diablo, Warframe and countless others have grinding as the primary mode of interaction in the game and those are successful enough.

The problem, at least where FF14 is concerned, is that it very often feels like a grind. Warframe serves up it's grind alongside some very satisfying game play, lots of potential playstyle options and delivers the whole thing wrapped in a power fantasy. You don't notice that you're grinding because you're too busy being a mass murdering Space Ninja for it to every cross your mind.

Making grind fun is all in the delivery, and Eureka really doesn't deliver.

Bingo.

Do you want to know what the real problem is?
Final Fantasy XIVs gameplay SUCKS outside of raids. (So does WoW's Btw.) Simple as that. The combat in this game is neither fun nor entertaining when presented w/o boss abilities to navigate around. You mindlessly spam the same 5 buttons for hours w/o needing to pay attention to anything, because the mobs either do not have abilities or (if low level) you are instagib anyway. That's also a reason why I hate questing and leveling so much (barring main story quests, where the story is the entertainment).

I hate to be the guy, but I always fondly remember vanilla WoW leveling. I loved the time it took. The feeling of progression and the danger (being careful about how many mobs, etc.). In modern WoW the only time I've felt similarly was fresh 110 in Suramar City, otherwise I agree entirely.

Let's be honest, Final Fantasy has never had the greatest gameplay in the world. Menu based combat wasnt exciting even in 1987, it was functional, but not always engaging. The issue the series has always had has been offering different solutions to the same problem.

It doesn't have to be that way though, I've always thought Squenix did their best work when they deviated from the traditional Final Fantasy formula. Like Chrono Trigger, it keeps a lot of the JRPG menu based mechanics in place, but offers enough fresh takes on the idea to be something special and memorable. Or Final Fantasy Tactics, which also kept a lot of the traditional Final Fantasy mechanics, yet something as simple as adding a gridded game board completely changed how it looks and feels to play.

Speaking personally as a huge fan of turn based combat I always go back to Mana Khemia as my go to turn based system. I still stand by the statement that it's the most fun turn based battle system I've ever played.

Most mainline FF's don't really have very good turn based combat. Games like Mana Khemia, Legend of Legaia, Shadow Hearts, Grandia, Battlechasers, FFT, Chrono Cross, and some others really did it better.

FFXIV's combat is perfectly fine for what it is. One of the biggest appeals of any main Final Fantasy game is being able to wander and explore an immersive and engaging game world whilst witnessing character development and cool events along the way - so the bulk of content is fairly easy to access and enjoy. There's usually a lot of side content that is more challenging and FFXIV is no different in that regard.

The fact that gathering and crafting are their own unique jobs is also very interesting to me. Usually I don't bother touching either role in MMO's but I made an exception for FFXIV since it's yet another way to soak up the game's vast lore.

I'm not sure I'd call bland empty instances zones as an immersive and engaging game world. I'll give FF14 plenty of credit though for its MSQ (even considering the bad bits) and the general world building elements.

I'm not a huge fan of the gathering/crafting stuff, but I can see its appeal and appreciate the design choices.

[Granyala]

I hate to be the guy, but I always fondly remember vanilla WoW leveling. I loved the time it took. The feeling of progression and the danger (being careful about how many mobs, etc.). In modern WoW the only time I've felt similarly was fresh 110 in Suramar City, otherwise I agree entirely.

I leveled a priest in TBC, so i do know a fair bit about harsh leveling.
Honestly, what I remember most was a retardedly fast respawn in zones I was mostly alone in and speing half my online time sitting on the ground drinking water.
The mobs themselves very rarely had any abilities worth mentioning (yet sometimes rather insane autohit damage to a clothie).

Leveling the first time was fun, because Azeroth was alien to me and there was a lot to explore. Leveling a second time (assuming you take the same path) then revealed what a hollow and actually boring experience it was. Well that was the time when I started to use my second monitor.

I strictly maintain that MMO combat in WoW style if friggin boring outside of bossfights. "Don't aggro too much" is pretty much the only danger that exists, because developers don't have the option to put mobs into the open world that have actual abilities you need to counter to survive b/c class diversity and balance does not allow it.

[lawow74]

From a business standpoint, it makes sense. Keep people hanging around for two straight months and possibly a third by staggering the release. The argument that it gives them more time to test holds a little weight, but the cynic in me sees disingenuous greed as what lies beneath that tissue-thin veil. Regardless, I'm still playing and will continue to do so. I have my gripes with how they handle aspects of the content, but so long as I still enjoy playing my chosen job, I'll stick with them. I'm not that strapped for cash or tight-fisted I feel I need to squeeze off the subscription drip from me into their coffers.

[Granyala]

I'm not a huge fan of the gathering/crafting stuff, but I can see its appeal and appreciate the design choices.

I like crafting / gathering a lot.
Only thing turning me away is the whole cycle of "dump millions into the RNG overmeld grind" and then try to make enough millions back to repeat the OM grind whenever new gear gets released.

The blue scrip gear certainly helps but HQing stuff with that gear is difficult b/c you are so far behind in stats.

[Granyala]

In fact, some specs/strategies were pretty overpowered. Warrior and Druid seemed like a bit of a slog at times, but SPriest was absurdly good and unkillable while leveling (even if you were wanding sometimes)


I really want to like crafting in XIV, but it always seems like you're just super ultra mega tryharding (and spending millions on millions of gil) for not much of a point in the end. You'd have to REALLY love the crafting to even break even on everything you spent and the stuff you can make often isn't even really that good. (Outside of crafted accessories for tanks to meld, huehue :| )

They can't just make crafting be the best gear I guess, but still. It never seems all that worthwhile for everything you have to give up.

Sure, if you were a veteran and had good gear. But as a 1st timer, SPriest was rather rough. Esp since you need so long to kill crap that stuff respawned all around you. I performed many a tactical suicide b/c it was faster that clearing out all trash to get out in one piece.


It's the same metagame as in EvE Online. Invest lots of ISK to get the means to make even more ISK but ultimately, there is no point.
Which is why I stay out of high end crafting, b/c I already have a medium house that is fully decorated.
To be frank: I do not have a practical use for millions of gil. I still have around 60ish, me thinks, not sure, Ifalna doesn't care that much and lets her retainer handle the financial details. ^^

[Wrecktangle]

It's funny, people say this but I leveled a lot of stuff in Vanilla/TBC and I just don't remember this.

I remember it being slow and questing being disjointed and whatnot, sure. But not any particular sense of danger. In fact, some specs/strategies were pretty overpowered. Warrior and Druid seemed like a bit of a slog at times, but SPriest was absurdly good and unkillable while leveling (even if you were wanding sometimes), shield spike Paladin couldn't pull enough mobs, Mage could do some absurd AoE things, Warlock was of course the king of soloing everything, my Rogue I grinded a lot to 60 just because everything died in Ambush > Gouge > Backstab most of the time.

Maybe coming from EQ my perspective of vanilla was a lot different, but I just don't remember this "dangerous world where you carefully pulled everything one at a time and were always close to dying" or whatever.

I played a Warrior in vanilla . You definitely needed to be careful but as @Granyala said, it wasn't because it was actually hard, just because mobs hit hard, and respawns/density were a little crazy, and in my case, lacked strong AOE tools.

[StrawberryZebra]

I played a Warrior in vanilla . You definitely needed to be careful but as @Granyala said, it wasn't because it was actually hard, just because mobs hit hard, and respawns/density were a little crazy, and in my case, lacked strong AOE tools.

Not entirely, there were a couple of mobs that had dangerous abilities. Most notable were Harpies with Execute if you were playing Horde - It had a habit of critting, was on a really short cooldown and since the mobs had no Rage bar, always dealt damage based on having 100 Rage. Being low on health when one respawned was a death sentence. Those were very much in the minoity however.

The bigger issue I ran into in Vanilla was having to stop after every mob or two to eat, drink and bandage up. Especially annoying in the Plaguelands, where pretty much everything slapped 30 second long DoTs on you that you had to wait out before you could actually recover from combat. It's not one of those things that was "hard", just needlessly time consuming.

As much as I criticise FF14's combat, it's at least reasonably quick to just barrel your way through a "Kill 10 Rats" type of quest. In Vanilla WoW I remember those being a bit of a chore unless you were over leveled, armed to the teeth or playing a Hunter.

[Granyala]

As much as I criticise FF14's combat, it's at least reasonably quick to just barrel your way through a "Kill 10 Rats" type of quest. In Vanilla WoW I remember those being a bit of a chore unless you were over leveled, armed to the teeth or playing a Hunter.

"gather 10 rats entrails" type of quests are waay worse. So many rats w/o organs! >.<

I rather like that FF doesn't spam you with combat quests, compared to WoW.

[Eleccybubb]

"gather 10 rats entrails" type of quests are waay worse. So many rats w/o organs! >.<

I rather like that FF doesn't spam you with combat quests, compared to WoW.

Nah but ARR spam of fetch quests just to get to Heavensward is hell dude.

[lawow74]

"gather 10 rats entrails" type of quests are waay worse. So many rats w/o organs! >.<

I rather like that FF doesn't spam you with combat quests, compared to WoW.

Three words: Aged Gorilla Sinew.

[Graeham]

Well, it is pretty much outright stated that there's going to be more Doma reconstruction quests in the future. Just as I hoped! Running around and talking to the NPC's for updated flavour text gave a mention of the Doman children behind the 'Adventurer's Guild'. So I'm guessing that's going to be next as it was a plot point that was tackled back in Mor Dhona but then put on hold.

[lawow74]

So, details have emerged about Heaven-On-High. To enter, you:

-Have to be lvl 61.
-Have to have completed the Stormblood main scenario quest Tide Goes In, Imperials Go Out (level 63 quest).
-Have to have cleared Floor 50 of POTD.
-Have to be in the Ruby Sea to queue to enter.

[lawow74]

It's cos 'no hardcore light party content' so POTD gets tarred with that brush. Meh, whatever. I'll clear it and get my Aether up to whatever is cap for floors 1-30 and then not really worry, cos I won't need the weapons and I won't need to level. It'll be for Tomestones and amusement.

[StrawberryZebra]

I can't help but think Heaven on High seems to have some quite strict restictions to it. Though I do wonder why you'll need to be 61+ with the job you want to enter as, it seems like that's going to really cut it's potential as a leveling tool.

I mean, I get that it's in a Stormblood zone, so you'll need to be able to enter it in order to unlock the content. That's fine. What I don't get is the POTD floor 50 restriction. It seems very arbitrary.

I get the impression that, as with other content, they're going to be too concerned with the story aspects and are going to end up ruining what could potentially be some fun, cool side content because of it. It's fine to just let things be fun on their own merits.

[Rogalicus]

I'm going to assume they just don't want PotD to be deserted. It will remain more effective for 1-60, Heaven on High for 61-70 and so, and so on.