1. #41681
    Fluffy Kitten Remilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    *chuckles*
    Well personal DPS isn't much of a concert for me, because I am paired with a damage greedy SCH/AST player who quite likes the fact that I do the healing and she gets to lolDPS.
    Can I have you as my healing buddy.

  2. #41682
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Do you guys remember that post I made a while back about the PLD who did nothing but shield lob?

    Well he's back with a new post, and unfortunately he never took me on my offer to teach him how to PLD. It's worth a solid read if you have some popcorn handy.

    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...is-with-people
    There a TLDR? It's a 24 page long thread with most of it just being "report him." There a specific post in there you wanted us to see?


    I always thought the idea of a BLM being a burst caster with the ability to store instant casts as a mechanic to offset bad swings would be cool. You'd always want to have 1-2 on hand, but never want to be capped kinda thing. I don't think BLM needs the AF swing, Enochian Timer, Umbral Hearts, and Foul to be a compelling/fun job. It is a little overbearing IMO. I'm not entirely sure how I'd rework it tbh as I don't have a ton of experience on it.

    Regarding SMN I really don't like the spellset. It just doesn't feel like what a SMN to me would cast. I don't have enough experience to give any concrete rework thoughts on it though.
    BLM is the epitome of a turret caster with big flashy spells that put out big numbers, which feels amazing when you're able to actually do that. The problem is your DPS plummets the second you have to move at all because of how tight the Enochian timer is and how it works. Having to keep it up for 30+ seconds when the buffs only last 15 and having to switch ice and fire in tandem by casting the right spell at the right time, all while dodging mechanics and making sure you land somewhere within enough time left to actually cast your spell...it's infuriating, for very little actual gain since other classes can do the same or better damage with far less effort and frustration.

    I just enjoy SMN because it's a pet class and affords a huge amount of flexibility and survivability in all content. I'll admit the toolkit isn't very Summoner-ish, with the "Summoning" part being mostly relegated to a targettable DoT. I'm not sure how i'd rework it either, but I'd tie the primals and their powers more directly to the class rather tem being more of a side thing. Maybe having them be similar to now, but also having the active one augmenting your spells to do different things. Like Ifrit would make your spells more fire aspected with burn DoT's and fire aesthetics, with Titan being more direct damage and slows or embrittle type things, Garuda would be wind aspected, obviously, with spells for DoT's, slashes, and haste buffs or something.

    Another option would be for the Summoner "abilities" being command type spells that affect the egi directly and have almost ALL of the damage come from the pet, so the Summoner is really just a conduit that channels, controls and applies the power of the primals directly to the Egi with supporting abilities that empower and assist the egi. Maybe have the SMN spells be super weak but they cause the egi to attack or do some action, so the Summoner still directly controls everything that's going on and when, but adds a little more of the SMN feel to the class rather it just being the FFXIV equivalent of an Affliction Warlock.

  3. #41683
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    There a TLDR? It's a 24 page long thread with most of it just being "report him." There a specific post in there you wanted us to see?
    No TLDR - it's worth its # of pages in gold if you can find the time.

    BLM is the epitome of a turret caster with big flashy spells that put out big numbers, which feels amazing when you're able to actually do that. The problem is your DPS plummets the second you have to move at all because of how tight the Enochian timer is and how it works. Having to keep it up for 30+ seconds when the buffs only last 15 and having to switch ice and fire in tandem by casting the right spell at the right time, all while dodging mechanics and making sure you land somewhere within enough time left to actually cast your spell...it's infuriating, for very little actual gain since other classes can do the same or better damage with far less effort and frustration.

    I just enjoy SMN because it's a pet class and affords a huge amount of flexibility and survivability in all content. I'll admit the toolkit isn't very Summoner-ish, with the "Summoning" part being mostly relegated to a targettable DoT. I'm not sure how i'd rework it either, but I'd tie the primals and their powers more directly to the class rather tem being more of a side thing. Maybe having them be similar to now, but also having the active one augmenting your spells to do different things. Like Ifrit would make your spells more fire aspected with burn DoT's and fire aesthetics, with Titan being more direct damage and slows or embrittle type things, Garuda would be wind aspected, obviously, with spells for DoT's, slashes, and haste buffs or something.

    Another option would be for the Summoner "abilities" being command type spells that affect the egi directly and have almost ALL of the damage come from the pet, so the Summoner is really just a conduit that channels, controls and applies the power of the primals directly to the Egi with supporting abilities that empower and assist the egi. Maybe have the SMN spells be super weak but they cause the egi to attack or do some action, so the Summoner still directly controls everything that's going on and when, but adds a little more of the SMN feel to the class rather it just being the FFXIV equivalent of an Affliction Warlock.
    We're on the same page here.

  4. #41684
    In my experience there's less drama overall in FFXIV...but when there is drama it tends to be the sort where those responsible are insanely stubborn.

  5. #41685
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    No TLDR - it's worth its # of pages in gold if you can find the time.



    We're on the same page here.
    I read it. That person acts like a 12 year old trying to be mature and coming up with "mature" arguments and failing miserably. Glad I'll never have the honor of grouping with them.

  6. #41686
    Speaking on SMN, what I would like to see would be mechanically more similar to BRD. Rather than summon different pets specifically, have it be more channeling the spirit of a given aspect and what you do changes based on that, i.e. rotating stances with different elemental powers whose effects change based on what you want to do and what you've done mechanically. For example, going to a Leviathan aspect and dousing an enemy, then to a Ramuh aspect and electrocuting the fuck outta them. Or perhaps it's two summons at once with opposing elements whose abilities sync together. Debuff with one and slam them with the other, and rotate back.

  7. #41687
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    In a perfect world, they'd all be equally desirable for their own reasons outside of their healing prowess.
    And in a real world, encounter A gets much easier with Option B, whereas Encounter B prefers Option A.
    Net result: if you want to optimize, you have to have all 3 healers at your disposal or people will moan at you.
    Raids with a richer roster will just rotate healers depending on the encounter needs.

    Ever remembered raiding Sunwell w/o a Shaman?
    Well, neither do I.
    While not necessarily this extreme, that is the direction in which you are heading.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Remilia View Post
    Can I have you as my healing buddy.
    Hmm... maybe if I can pet your ears. They look plushy and soft.

    Don't get my wrong though: I still expect you to be able to recognize critical situations which you HAVE TO heal with me because the design prohibits complete 1 man healing.

    Kefkas Archangel would be one such example. Very difficult to impossible to bring all peeps to 100%, simply because I do not have enough time and s/o needs to tend to the tank... God, I swear that them tanks love to eat extra big hits when you try to keep them at 100%.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    I’ve seen and commented in the thread @Wrecktangle referred to on OF.
    Same.
    While I can understand the frustration, the OP of said thread has a point: insults are a no-go.

  8. #41688
    Hopefully they announce the new expansion and add another healer. Maybe Dancer. If I have to twerk to heal though, I'll be concerned.

  9. #41689
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon Claws View Post
    Hopefully they announce the new expansion and add another healer. Maybe Dancer. If I have to twerk to heal though, I'll be concerned.
    They will. They will only give a hint at the first job though.

    Word of advice. Look at the shirt Yoshida is usually wearing. Last time he wore a Scarlet Witch one which was Red Mage and a Spiderman one for Samurai. (Sam Raimi sounds a lot like it I dunno)

    Plus fanfest streams are free this year so YAY! Also the goodies are going on Mogstation. It's FF7 themed minions and Cloud's bike from Advent Children.

    Only downside is streams won't get The Primals concert.

  10. #41690
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Ever remembered raiding Sunwell w/o a Shaman?
    Well, neither do I.
    While not necessarily this extreme, that is the direction in which you are heading.
    I also don't remember raiding Sunwell without Holy Paladins, Disc and Holy Priest and Resto Druids either. Because those healers all brought unique strengths to the table.

    Mages ended up getting benched for Sunwell, but that was mostly due to the design direction they'd taken at the time where talents that reduced spell cast time also reduced the benefit the spell got from Spell Power. It left them in a place where their damage just didn't scale well enough to be competative. Thankfully Blizard seem to have learned from that mistake and haven't repeated it.

  11. #41691
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    They will. They will only give a hint at the first job though.
    I just want another healer, preferably DNC or maybe a new job altogether.

  12. #41692
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon Claws View Post
    Hopefully they announce the new expansion and add another healer. Maybe Dancer. If I have to twerk to heal though, I'll be concerned.
    At this juncture, I do not see any point to new classes. The ones we have already feel horribly homogenized, esp the healers.
    Considering that there are only 8man raids, how many more classes do they want to shove into this game?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    I also don't remember raiding Sunwell without Holy Paladins, Disc and Holy Priest and Resto Druids either. Because those healers all brought unique strengths to the table.
    SW was a 25man raid though, not an 8man raid. There were enough spots for the 4 healing classes we had back then.
    In FF We are already at the point where people must choose 2/3 healers and as you can see, some peeps are crying for more.

    If SE is dumb enough to add more healers, they will either remain carbon copys of each other or they will put further pressure on stuff like balance, niches and and support beyond healing.

    If you put people in a position in which they are forced to make a choice, they are compelled to optimize further.

  13. #41693
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    It this juncture, I do not see any point to new classes. The ones we have already feel horribly homogenized, esp the healers.
    Considering that there are only 8man raids, how many more classes do they want to shove into this game?

    - - - Updated - - -



    SW was a 25man raid though, not an 8man raid. There were enough spots for the 4 healing classes we had back then.
    In FF We are already at the point where people must choose 2/3 healers and as you can see, some peeps are crying for more.

    If SE is dumb enough to add more healers, they will either remain carbon copys of each other or they will put further pressure on stuff like balance, niches and and support beyond healing.

    If you put people in a position in which they are forced to make a choice, they are compelled to optimize further.
    FF11 ended with... what, 22 jobs before they stopped making frequent content for it?

    XI also has the case of being an entirely different game from a different time, and mechanically, only four or five of those jobs were powerful and the rest were just cross-class fodder, but I digress.

    I don't really feel much homogenization honestly, all of my bars feel different to play, and all of my setups don't feel like I'm doing X thing except with an axe instead of a sword.

    Some classes need to have their niche defined sure, like DRK has been dead as the "anti-magic" tank since PLD was able to block magic, but that needed to happen, and DRK is confirmed getting a rework.

    Honestly though, I'd be fine with this being the last round of jobs unless they wanted to bring in just one fan favorite every expansion, Blue Mage and Dancers have been something people have wanted since 2.0, even if they have to find a strange niche (Blue Mage melee support? According to a leaker who's been consistently right about nearly everything since before 4.3 came out). Dancer will almost definitely be a healer though, unless Square wants to take the game the way of Rift and make a designated support role and throw a bunch of buffer/debuffer jobs into it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, if Summoner gets a rework, can we just have them be Stand-users beating the hell out of people with quick-summoned full primals instead of egi?

  14. #41694
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veluren View Post
    I don't really feel much homogenization honestly, all of my bars feel different to play, and all of my setups don't feel like I'm doing X thing except with an axe instead of a sword.
    Go play a tank.
    It's literally the same 1-2-3 combo crap for every tank.
    Aggro combo vs DPS combo (you spam the latter 99% of the time), tank stance vs DPS stance (you avoid tank stance as much as possible).
    Only the buttons are of a different color.

    SCH is nicely different from WHM, I agree. AST is just a carbon copy of WHM with cards attached (Diurnal) or with shields instead of HoTs (Nocturnal).

  15. #41695
    Finally left the Cerberus novice network today. Just went full on cesspit/drama mode. Gonna stick with the mentor crown though.

    Without naming and shaming some guy said "I dindu nuffin wrong" then it erupted into an argument between him and some other guy about it being racist..... I mean the guy calling it racist was flat out wrong but neither of them would shut the hell up or take it to private tells.

    And during that argument/flame war was fucking impossible to help 1 or 2 people who were asking for help.

    I thought Louisoix had a bad NN in the past but Cerberus is just shitposting and drama for the most part.
    Last edited by Eleccybubb; 2018-09-30 at 10:41 PM.

  16. #41696
    Fluffy Kitten Remilia's Avatar
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    Speaking of SCH, let me have two fairies out at once please. If only so I can be a broken lazy healer with two mobile healing turrets.

  17. #41697
    SCH at low levels is hilarious. I once stood there and danced while the fairy kept the tank alive in I think Tam-Tara.

  18. #41698
    Quote Originally Posted by lawow74 View Post
    Speaking on SMN, what I would like to see would be mechanically more similar to BRD. Rather than summon different pets specifically, have it be more channeling the spirit of a given aspect and what you do changes based on that, i.e. rotating stances with different elemental powers whose effects change based on what you want to do and what you've done mechanically. For example, going to a Leviathan aspect and dousing an enemy, then to a Ramuh aspect and electrocuting the fuck outta them. Or perhaps it's two summons at once with opposing elements whose abilities sync together. Debuff with one and slam them with the other, and rotate back.
    I hadn't ever played the newly designed bard until today. I must say I regret not playing it sooner. If they could take something like this and put it on Summoner with more direct damage spells I'd be all for it.

    I don't mind the current Summoner play style, honestly, but it doesn't feel like a Summoner at all.

  19. #41699
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Finally left the Cerberus novice network today. Just went full on cesspit/drama mode. Gonna stick with the mentor crown though.
    I did the same (I'm also on Cerberus EU), I was in novice network due to being a returner but that chat is just pure 100% random chatter. Can't say I noticed much drama but the channel feels as if I joined a random discord that has a closed group of veteran friends that only talk with eachother. I'd even go as far as to say that novices are afraid to even pose a question because of this. Don't think I saw a single novice using it in ~2 weeks that I've been reading it.
    "Loss of blood... My only weakness!"
    ~ Warlord Khan, Magicka

    Anyway, if you don't already see where I'm going with this, allow me to spell it out: the only meaningful MMORPG "endgame" -- i.e., something novel to do after the progression process is over -- is that of the sandbox.

  20. #41700
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    SW was a 25man raid though, not an 8man raid. There were enough spots for the 4 healing classes we had back then.
    In FF We are already at the point where people must choose 2/3 healers and as you can see, some peeps are crying for more.
    As you say, we're already in the situation where at least 1 of those healers needs to be benched for 8 man content. Sadly, because of how the AST is designed, other healers need to bring extra tools to the table beyond just healing to be competative. If Squenix add more, then those healers without buffs or extra utility are going to be benched for AST every single time.

    Which is really the issue, the AST is too strong in groups. You said it yourself, AST is a carbon copy of WHM with cards attached. Rather than nerf what makes AST unique, maybe give other healers their own unique tools to compete.

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