1. #43061
    Scarab Lord Kaelwryn's Avatar
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    I think with Thancred they were using bard in the sense of 'silver-tongued story-teller/performer' rather than Bard, the job. Because very few npcs *actually* have a job.

  2. #43062
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    They showed off a picture of the trust system with Thancred, Urianger and Y'shtola next to Yoshi-P's blm, so while its not 100% fact she's not a healer class I personally think its doubtful. Since dungeons are 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps and Urianger already fills the healer slot as AST.
    it's kinda strange they were so upfront about thancred and urianger's new roles but wouldn't say much about y'shtola though.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    Is there any reason that she couldn't be a new kind of healer? I'm assuming that we're going to get a new healer to go along with the Gunbreaker, and Y'shtola has pretty much always been a healer, unlike Thancred who was introduced as a Bard, flipped to being a Rogue out of nowhere when Yugiri showed up and is now showing up as a Gunbreaker in the cinematic.

    A darker themed healer is certainly something that could potentially workout well and would add some variety to the the current lineup of healers.
    this is what I was thinking. a dark healer sounds really cool.

  3. #43063
    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    it's kinda strange they were so upfront about thancred and urianger's new roles but wouldn't say much about y'shtola though.



    this is what I was thinking. a dark healer sounds really cool.
    Dancer does have to fit in there somewhere though, with how aware they are of letting down expectations and all the frenzying over Dancer, I feel like anything else would make people upset unless it came out next to it, and the dev team is in-touch enough with the playerbase I couldn't see them making a tone-deaf choice like not doing that.

  4. #43064
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    I think with Thancred they were using bard in the sense of 'silver-tongued story-teller/performer' rather than Bard, the job. Because very few npcs *actually* have a job.
    "Minfillia pls, you are 25, its time to go out and get a job"
    "Pff, whatever wagecuck, just hire a lalafell instead"

  5. #43065
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    I think with Thancred they were using bard in the sense of 'silver-tongued story-teller/performer' rather than Bard, the job. Because very few npcs *actually* have a job.
    So all the npcs are just living off gov't money in their parents basements? Leeching off society? Damn, that explains a lot....

  6. #43066
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    I think with Thancred they were using bard in the sense of 'silver-tongued story-teller/performer' rather than Bard, the job. Because very few npcs *actually* have a job.
    It's possible, we never actually see him using a bow afterall. Then again, we never see him singing songs, playing instruments, acting or reciting poetry. Either way, using the same term as a Job class was always going to be a mess if they were intending him to the in game version of William Shakespeare.

    He seems to dislike bows and creative artforms equally at any rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    So all the npcs are just living off gov't money in their parents basements? Leeching off society? Damn, that explains a lot....
    What does that make us then? Given that we're the only people who seem to be employed in any kind of fashion, by the people who are on benefits. The Eorzean economy is messed up!

  7. #43067
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    What does that make us then? Given that we're the only people who seem to be employed in any kind of fashion, by the people who are on benefits. The Eorzean economy is messed up!
    So.... we're leeching off of leechers... we're like... leech parasites!

  8. #43068
    Scarab Lord Kaelwryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    It's possible, we never actually see him using a bow afterall. Then again, we never see him singing songs, playing instruments, acting or reciting poetry. Either way, using the same term as a Job class was always going to be a mess if they were intending him to the in game version of William Shakespeare.

    He seems to dislike bows and creative artforms equally at any rate.



    What does that make us then? Given that we're the only people who seem to be employed in any kind of fashion, by the people who are on benefits. The Eorzean economy is messed up!
    Well, we are shown him as a womanizer and while not all bards are womanizers, its kind of a common trope for them to be? His glib, sorta carefree attitude in the start of ARR kind of lends himself towards being a bard archetype of sorts. I do agree tho, using both definitely makes things a bit wonky. Scholar is also another one where it can be weird tho probably less so than bard in this instance.

  9. #43069
    So I just got into heavensward a few days ago and my god did the patch content MSQ's from ARR take it out of me... Got no idea what they were thinking with that...

    I'm real worried for the combat, it didn't bother me so much early on because it was new and supposedly was supposed to get better later on because of off gcd's n stuff but man is it still slow... and I'm playing a monk which is supposed to be the fastest.

    Thought about swapping jobs to change it up, tried samurai but you barely get buttons for it early on. Dunno what's with MMO's obsessions with creating classes that are unenjoyable to play before you reach end game.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  10. #43070
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    So I just got into heavensward a few days ago and my god did the patch content MSQ's from ARR take it out of me... Got no idea what they were thinking with that...

    I'm real worried for the combat, it didn't bother me so much early on because it was new and supposedly was supposed to get better later on because of off gcd's n stuff but man is it still slow... and I'm playing a monk which is supposed to be the fastest.

    Thought about swapping jobs to change it up, tried samurai but you barely get buttons for it early on. Dunno what's with MMO's obsessions with creating classes that are unenjoyable to play before you reach end game.
    With post 2.0 that's just it, they weren't thinking. They were new to end game story questing and didn't think about how it would affect people leveling through 1/2/3 expansions later.

    As for the abilities, yes it does get a lot better, you're on the cusp of that, it really takes off post 60. Why it has to happen that way? Just the way it is with mmo's with levels, not a lot you can do to get around it, gotta have some reason to level.

  11. #43071
    almost done with levelling jobs doing the roullettes and boy am i glad. Don't know how it is in other regions but in eu on chaos the "wowfugee asshole" is getting easier to spot. A lot of "princess silvanas" going "LOL FUCKING FAGGOT NICE JOB DYING" when its a sprout not noticing something like ancient flare. Seeing that "its okay because this is how we act in lfr" get shot down by all 3 alliance raids telling them its not wow and they need to chill out was probably a strange reaction for this assholes used to being a dick as the norm. Since Shadowbringers got announced i run into a couple a week and its always someone with a warcraft character name.

    I miss the Kirito Starks, at least they just had stupid limit break macros.
    Last edited by dope_danny; 2019-02-10 at 02:51 PM.

  12. #43072
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    almost done with levelling jobs doing the roullettes and boy am i glad. Don't know how it is in other regions but in eu on chaos the "wowfugee asshole" is getting easier to spot. A lot of "princess silvanas" going "LOL FUCKING FAGGOT NICE JOB DYING" when its a sprout not noticing something like ancient flare. Seeing that "its okay because this is how we act in lfr" get shot down by all 3 alliance raids telling them its not wow and they need to chill out was probably a strange reaction for this assholes used to being a dick as the norm. Since Shadowbringers got announced i run into a couple a week and its always someone with a warcraft character name.

    I miss the Kirito Starks, at least they just had stupid limit break macros.
    I've noticed a fairly significant influx of sprouts on my server (Zalera) ever since the Twitch Prime promo kicked off last week or whenever. Zalera was actually locked for new character creation during primetime here a day or two ago, even though it's listed as a preferred server. Had me thinking that maybe hell froze over.

    Not surprising, all of the current preferred servers for NA will be part of the Crystal DC once that whole split happens. While I don't see it much as of recently, I vividly recall all the "call to arms" for people to transfer to servers that will remain part of Aether, dubbing it the "raid DC". Basically the same mentality that led everyone and their brother to dogpile onto Gilgamesh a couple years ago, but now on a datacenter level.

  13. #43073
    The Lightbringer Dartz1979's Avatar
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    my favorite race is the one with the tail so sexy.
    You can't take what ya can't see... *rolls d20* You rolled a natural 20* The skill of stealth is successful.

    Duelingnexus name: Jaina1337
    Blizzard Battle Tag: Jaina1337#1396

  14. #43074
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Dunno what's with MMO's obsessions with creating classes that are unenjoyable to play before you reach end game.
    It's a problem which is compounded by a lengthy leveling process that, in theory, is supposed to be a tutorial. In practice, the whole thing gets upended when you've one of the most important skills when you complete leveling, not early into it when you're getting started.

    It's why so many people get to max level without knowing how to play their class - They only got the chance to start learning at max level. They've got to unlearn all the bad habits they picked up during leveling and learn how to play the correct way. That takes a lot more time than it does to learn those bad habits to begin with.

  15. #43075
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    It's a problem which is compounded by a lengthy leveling process that, in theory, is supposed to be a tutorial. In practice, the whole thing gets upended when you've one of the most important skills when you complete leveling, not early into it when you're getting started.

    It's why so many people get to max level without knowing how to play their class - They only got the chance to start learning at max level. They've got to unlearn all the bad habits they picked up during leveling and learn how to play the correct way. That takes a lot more time than it does to learn those bad habits to begin with.
    FF XIV amplifies that effect, esp on secondary classes by constantly putting you into low level content when you level via DF.

    As for the "wowfugee" problematic: never witnessed that.

  16. #43076
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    With post 2.0 that's just it, they weren't thinking. They were new to end game story questing and didn't think about how it would affect people leveling through 1/2/3 expansions later.
    Yeah but god why did they not go back and address it.

    Its so awkward going from getting 25k xp per quest to all of a sudden for no apparent reason getting 4.8k per quest which is something they had to establish after the fact since these quests were originally made at level cap when you were getting 0 xp for them.

    Probably one of the easiest things to address, and they just haven't done it.

    As for the abilities, yes it does get a lot better, you're on the cusp of that, it really takes off post 60. Why it has to happen that way? Just the way it is with mmo's with levels, not a lot you can do to get around it, gotta have some reason to level.
    This isn't really an excuse, have the same issue with wow. Why they would make it so you have no idea how a class plays until you hit level cap and make them unenjoyable while leveling is beyond me. There's really no excuse for it in design as abilities are far from the only form of character progression.

    Like I'm not leveling right now at all because of abilities, I'm leveling to play through content and story. Its a story driven game...

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    It's a problem which is compounded by a lengthy leveling process that, in theory, is supposed to be a tutorial.
    The thing is leveling takes tremendously longer than a tutorial is meant to last. I've also never played an MMO that actually played like a tutorial while giving you abilities.

    It seems really arbitrary, like its just bad design from a long time ago that none of these games ever learned to grow out of. Especially in regards to dealing with expansions adding abilities and reworking classes.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  17. #43077
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    The thing is leveling takes tremendously longer than a tutorial is meant to last. I've also never played an MMO that actually played like a tutorial while giving you abilities.
    Very few are explicitly a tutorial as such, but the intention was always that you'd learn new skills at a gradual pace so you had plenty of time to get familiar with them, both solo and in group content, before you reached max level. You'd break up the learning curve into small managable chunks for players, so they'd not get overwhelmed by heaping 50+ skills on them at once.

    Players also expect that you can play properly by the time you hit max level too, and the only way to get that hands on experience in game is through leveling.

    I agree that it's bad, outdated design. It doesn't function well as a means of teaching the player at all. It feels restrictive for the players, can get warped and invalidated with class changes and expansions and doesn't actually achieve much but create a hurdle for players to get over before they can get to the "good" parts of the game. At it's worst, it effectively creates two entirely different play experiences, one for players below max level and one for those at max level.

    FF14 suffers with it perhaps more than most with the roulettes. Any time you get synced to a lower level you lose access to what are sometimes critical abilities for your Job to function. It's an awful feeling, and you're not actually getting better with your Job, just reinforcing potentially damaging habits.

  18. #43078
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    FF14 suffers with it perhaps more than most with the roulettes. Any time you get synced to a lower level you lose access to what are sometimes critical abilities for your Job to function. It's an awful feeling, and you're not actually getting better with your Job, just reinforcing potentially damaging habits.
    Yeah I actually loved the downscaling systems at first, but they're growing more and more tiresome as I get higher and higher. I have no idea why they decided to remove your skills instead of just lowering your dmg across the board. Just feels awful, and frankly it would be better for new players to see all the flashy moves other people get later on as a motivator.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  19. #43079
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    I've noticed a fairly significant influx of sprouts on my server (Zalera) ever since the Twitch Prime promo kicked off last week or whenever. Zalera was actually locked for new character creation during primetime here a day or two ago, even though it's listed as a preferred server. Had me thinking that maybe hell froze over.

    Not surprising, all of the current preferred servers for NA will be part of the Crystal DC once that whole split happens. While I don't see it much as of recently, I vividly recall all the "call to arms" for people to transfer to servers that will remain part of Aether, dubbing it the "raid DC". Basically the same mentality that led everyone and their brother to dogpile onto Gilgamesh a couple years ago, but now on a datacenter level.
    i made a new alt this week on one of the preferred servers and it's crazy how many people were running around. reminds me of ARR launch.

  20. #43080
    Had my first major jackass of Stormblood last night as well, though not a WoW name. Instead it was a XIV name... Elidibus. Credit, I suppose, as they were sowing chaos.

    Running Ridorana Lighthouse, this dragoon kept hitting some anime "I'm so powerful" macro and pulling every boss early. They were told to knock it off after the 2nd. We got to the mini boss with all the robots in groups and they did it again. Half the Alliances decided to stay out of the fight and some who were in didn't heal or attack so they never got aggro'd but were in the fight in terms of the lockout. All the robots went back to their starting position and they just hung out with everyone else locked out.

    All the Alliances agreed to wait out the loot timer and that lock out prevented the dragoon from pulling again. It was no secret they were going to be vote dismissed as soon as it was possible.

    So as soon as it WAS possible..... the dragoon popped a vote kick on their tank and with everyone expecting a vote kick for the dragoon they just clicked yes. -_-
    They then immediately vote dismissed the dragoon, but everyone felt sorry for the tank they unintentionally booted.

    Needless to say, the dragoon was reported.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    So all the npcs are just living off gov't money in their parents basements? Leeching off society? Damn, that explains a lot....
    All of the scions have retainers who are out stealing walls and roofs from houses to sell, of course.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    The thing is leveling takes tremendously longer than a tutorial is meant to last. I've also never played an MMO that actually played like a tutorial while giving you abilities.

    It seems really arbitrary, like its just bad design from a long time ago that none of these games ever learned to grow out of. Especially in regards to dealing with expansions adding abilities and reworking classes.
    Catch 22 is if you have all your abilities by level 10, people grow bored of having no progression to their character, to which the argument then tends to get thrown around that there should be no leveling whatsoever and that's just a huge can of insanity worms to untangle logistics of.

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