1. #44661
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smellyead View Post
    Does Paladin get better/more fun?
    Nope it stays pretty slow and unsatisfying at 70. Once you played Dark Knight, you just can't go back.
    Some think the same about the White Mage, both classes are rather to the point w/o many extras to manage.

  2. #44662
    Quote Originally Posted by Smellyead View Post
    Does Paladin get better/more fun? Currently I'm only using 3 abilities unless I do a dungeon and I add Flash in, I'm level 45 at the moment and it's getting very boring now just pressing 1, 2 , 3 non stop.

    Should I of been a Warrior for wanting to tank later? Went Paladin since I thought the sword and board tanking style would be better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Nope it stays pretty slow and unsatisfying at 70. Once you played Dark Knight, you just can't go back.
    Some think the same about the White Mage, both classes are rather to the point w/o many extras to manage.
    Paladin is better at 70 for sure compared to how it plays at 75, you have a lot more abilities and combo chains to use. It's fine.

    My opinion if Dark Knight aligns with @Granyala opinion. It is more satisfying to play than PLD, but PLD is by no means bad. PLD compared to WAR and DRK is just...more straightforward? I guess would be the right term. It's really hard to play PLD "wrong" compared to WAR and DRK.

  3. #44663
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Never said that PLD was "bad". It is functioning, has great mitigation tools and still pulls decent DPS. It's actually my favorite tank to heal.

    Personally, I like the "no frills" design of WHM. Gives me the opportunity to focus on healing, rather than worrying about what card to burn / buff on whom. Sure many a tank feels the same about PLD, I am just not one of them. Then again, I don't tank raids, only dungeons. ^^

  4. #44664
    Pandaren Monk The Casualty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smellyead View Post
    Does Paladin get better/more fun? Currently I'm only using 3 abilities unless I do a dungeon and I add Flash in, I'm level 45 at the moment and it's getting very boring now just pressing 1, 2 , 3 non stop.

    Should I of been a Warrior for wanting to tank later? Went Paladin since I thought the sword and board tanking style would be better.
    At 70 you really don't use the Halone combo anymore. Or Flash for that matter. Circle of Scorn will hold enough hate for you to Total Eclipse spam in AoE or set up Goring Blade on multiple targets (depends on how many enemies you are fighting at once). There is a totally different rotation for single target where you will do Goring Blade combo for the DOT and several Royal Authority combos and end with another Goring Blade - this will be your Fight or Flight phase to get MP back and then you use Requiescat > Holy Spirit x 5 to burn through your MP.

    While I main Warrior and think it's the most fun of the 3, I have to give it to paladin this expansion to being better QoL over DRK. DRK right now outside of a situation where you are doing a Power Slash opener, have only 1 combo worth doing and Dark Arts nowadays has little in the area of decision making. Its essentially a 140 potency buff (excluding on CaS). To me it just feels spammy - especially if you don't like the repetitious combo of early/mid PLD.

    All of the above aside, any are viable and you can do the toughest fights in this game with any combination of tanks - perhaps duplicates not withstanding.

  5. #44665
    Quote Originally Posted by The Casualty View Post
    To me it just feels spammy - especially if you don't like the repetitious combo of early/mid PLD.
    Here's to hoping DA spam is something they're looking at for ShB.

    Though I'll be playing gunbreaker, gunblades are so stupidly useless that I just love them.

  6. #44666
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Casualty View Post
    At 70 you really don't use the Halone combo anymore. Or Flash for that matter.
    No and ... erm ... no.
    If you have DPS that know what they are doing, you will need both. Typically only at the start of the fight, say do 2x Halone in Shield oath, then you can switch over to DPS mode. If you gear lags behind the DPS' gear, you WILL have to switch back and use Halone to reestablish a comfortabe lead in threat.

    DPS mode of the tanks simply does not generate enough TPS in order to compensate for ilvl differences or to hold against initial burst of many classes.

    DRK mana is still limited, so you to prioritize spells. CnS > Bloodletter > rest. I agree though that DA usage has become way too spammy.

  7. #44667
    Pandaren Monk The Casualty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    No and ... erm ... no.
    DPS mode of the tanks simply does not generate enough TPS in order to compensate for ilvl differences or to hold against initial burst of many classes.
    I should have clarified. I'm mainly speaking from the perspective of max ilvl, either in savage raids or dungeons. The initial burst isn't an issue (even for orange parsing dps) as all DPS and healer classes now have ways to reduce their threat, and tank burst on an opener can be pretty decent as well. The only time anyone is doing enmity combos is if something goes south and the current tank unexpectedly dies and the other tank has to pick up without a threat lead. Shirk has effectively ended any threat issues for full party instances.

    I highly advise against using the first 6 GCDs for enmity moves if it can be avoided, as you will want your offensive cooldowns to line up with raid cooldowns, and that means at minimum for paladin that you are starting your burst ~19-20 seconds into the fight after you account for changing oaths, which is going to be right after most classes have finished. If you absolutely have to do an enmity combo, I would spend the first 3 GCDs on that, swap with the 4th, and then Requiscat and Holy Spirit Spam into GCD 9.

    As for dungeons, the boss doesn't live long enough for people to catch up on an initial threat of tank stance CoS + Shield Swipe or Path + Equilibrium and swapping to DPS and using your burst. In extreme cases you might have to use a threat combo near the end of the fight if the fight ends up dragging and the DPS is skilled but not skilled enough to know what buttons like diversion do.
    Last edited by The Casualty; 2019-04-07 at 04:33 PM.

  8. #44668
    Quote Originally Posted by The Casualty View Post
    I should have clarified. I'm mainly speaking from the perspective of max ilvl, either in savage raids or dungeons. The initial burst isn't an issue (even for orange parsing dps) as all DPS and healer classes now have ways to reduce their threat, and tank burst on an opener can be pretty decent as well. The only time anyone is doing enmity combos is if something goes south and the current tank unexpectedly dies and the other tank has to pick up without a threat lead. Shirk has effectively ended any threat issues for full party instances.

    I highly advise against using the first 6 GCDs for enmity moves if it can be avoided, as you will want your offensive cooldowns to line up with raid cooldowns, and that means at minimum for paladin that you are starting your burst ~19-20 seconds into the fight after you account for changing oaths, which is going to be right after most classes have finished. If you absolutely have to do an enmity combo, I would spend the first 3 GCDs on that, swap with the 4th, and then Requiscat and Holy Spirit Spam into GCD 9.

    As for dungeons, the boss doesn't live long enough for people to catch up on an initial threat of tank stance CoS + Shield Swipe or Path + Equilibrium and swapping to DPS and using your burst. In extreme cases you might have to use a threat combo near the end of the fight if the fight ends up dragging and the DPS is skilled but not skilled enough to know what buttons like diversion do.
    When i'm on RDM i wait for any PLD tank i'm with to go through the motions of grabbing threat for at least a few moves because if i Fleche into a dualcast Verfire/Verstone or pop a Manafication into embolden into corps-acorps into my melee combo ending in a Verholy/Verflare then i have Diversion once every 2 minutes. Two. Minutes. There are very casual tanks that can't deal with the sudden burst you get from things like a RDM or a SMN or something if its a back of mobs. I never have to do with that a DRK or even a WAR who of the three on paper should be the one with issues in terms of toolset and it doesn't apply to every PLD but of the 3 tank jobs its the one where the player can't spam something like Overpower or Unleash where even the crappiest WAR or DRK can easily maintain threat control while screwing up their dedicated rotation.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  9. #44669
    The Insane unholytestament's Avatar
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    Sure does seem to be a lot of server congestion issues lately. Guess there's a lot of WoW refugees and people coming back for Shadowbringers on my server...

    Two more weeks until the split. Think that will help?
    Last edited by unholytestament; 2019-04-07 at 11:21 PM.

  10. #44670
    It did for Chaos. I haven't seen a queue on Shiva since and its packed like a can of sardines right now.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  11. #44671
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    Sure does seem to be a lot of server congestion issues lately. Guess there's a lot of WoW refugees and people coming back for Shadowbringers on my server...

    Two more weeks until the split. Think that will help?
    Huh? I thought the split went through already.

  12. #44672
    The Insane unholytestament's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira View Post
    The EU one did I think it's sometimes next month for the NA one.
    April 23rd.

  13. #44673
    So its the FFXV event next week right? i wonder how many people that didn't playing XV will hear the boss theme and wonder if sokens started to rip off skyrim

    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  14. #44674
    Man this game is crazy for unlocking stuff. Been at 70 for a fair while and had a massive break, figured I'd start my end of expac cleanup of story and such and ended up unlocking like 10 new dungeons and a few raids. Holy crapbaskets.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    So its the FFXV event next week right? i wonder how many people that didn't playing XV will hear the boss theme and wonder if sokens started to rip off skyrim

    to be fair, in a certain Music Key a crescendo will sound fairly similar.

  15. #44675
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    No and ... erm ... no.
    If you have DPS that know what they are doing, you will need both. Typically only at the start of the fight, say do 2x Halone in Shield oath, then you can switch over to DPS mode. If you gear lags behind the DPS' gear, you WILL have to switch back and use Halone to reestablish a comfortabe lead in threat.

    DPS mode of the tanks simply does not generate enough TPS in order to compensate for ilvl differences or to hold against initial burst of many classes.

    DRK mana is still limited, so you to prioritize spells. CnS > Bloodletter > rest. I agree though that DA usage has become way too spammy.
    Speaking as a savage progressed tank through the first 2 tiers I don't even have flash on my bars (don't need it in dungeons tbh) and I definitely don't need it in raids.

    As far as RoH goes, if for some stupid reason the group wants me to pull (which is a sign of a dumb group) I only use RoH exactly once a fight, as Casualty mentioned.

    In an example like 03S, I'd have to use it maybe 3-4x a fight once, for each add. In Dungeons bosses I use it also exactly once before sitting in Sword Oath. Only very rarely does a DPS steal threat from me at the very end (1-4%), and I'll just cover them, or provoke.

  16. #44676
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    Man this game is crazy for unlocking stuff. Been at 70 for a fair while and had a massive break, figured I'd start my end of expac cleanup of story and such and ended up unlocking like 10 new dungeons and a few raids. Holy crapbaskets.
    Yeah, it's both good and bad. It's good because there's always something new to unlock, explore and experience...but it also means that sometimes to get to the stuff you REALLY want to be doing, you've got a LOT of stuff to slog through to get there.

    The vast majority of things in this game are unlocked as you progress through the MSQ, with some minimal amount of things unlocked on the side, but still require you to reach a certain point in the MSQ before it allows you to unlock them.

  17. #44677
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Speaking as a savage progressed tank
    I was talking about item level differences, sorry should have worded it more clearly.

    Sure, for you endgame BiS equipped tanks this might be a non issue (if you try to aggro a group with Circle of Scorn alone I'm sure you will lose aggro to random DPS picking a target and tunneling in that one) but it was my impression that this advice was given to a person that has't yet reached 70. So he will be behind in gear and in that scenario, there is no way around the aggro combo or flash unless you want your pulls to end in chaos.

    Trust me, I'd love to be able to forgo these things but even being 10ilvl behind is enough to need them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    So its the FFXV event next week right? i wonder how many people that didn't playing XV will hear the boss theme and wonder if sokens started to rip off skyrim
    Heheh, sure such short snippets may be similar but I doubt the entire track is like that.

  18. #44678
    I have a quick question, can I play the free trial indefinitely? I want to level all jobs to the maximum available level of 35 (I think?), can I do that or does the free trial end or will my character be deleted before I reach that point? Also, how long would it take me to level them all to 35? I want to get the most out of my free trial as I can, also it will show me if I can truly enjoy the game, I don't mind chilling in the low level areas since a new expansion will release in summer.

  19. #44679
    Scarab Lord TriHard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    I have a quick question, can I play the free trial indefinitely? I want to level all jobs to the maximum available level of 35 (I think?), can I do that or does the free trial end or will my character be deleted before I reach that point? Also, how long would it take me to level them all to 35? I want to get the most out of my free trial as I can, also it will show me if I can truly enjoy the game, I don't mind chilling in the low level areas since a new expansion will release in summer.
    Pretty sure you can just continue leveling all jobs to 35.

  20. #44680
    Quote Originally Posted by TriHard View Post
    Pretty sure you can just continue leveling all jobs to 35.
    Ah okay, and how would I be leveling them all? Do quests reset when I switch my job?

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