[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[blackblade]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Eden so far. Boss 1 was cool, but 2 was a confusing cluserf@#$. After the third wipe I had to stop doing dps just to try and figure out what was going on and I still didn't get it. I certainly had fun explaining to my group why I wasn't using all my abilities Boss 3 was just dull, and boss 4 made me want to cut my own wrists. I haven't been this aggravated since Alexander back in Heavensward.

I didn't find the second boss that confusing. When they cast 'delay spell' that means the next mechanic is gonna get locked behind a timer, that's basically the entire gimmick.

That being said I died about 10 times on boss 4. so ymmv there. I mean, the last boss of the raid should be hard but damn.

[StrawberryZebra]

I mean how would you get around the burst window/multiplicative function? I can't see any reasonable way around it that makes sense or feels good from a gameplay perspective, but perhaps I'm not looking at it in a meaningful way?

Perhaps the easiest way is to what WoW was doing in WotLK, where everyone brings useful buffs and tools to a group. You wanted a DPS Warrior because they gave everyone extra crit, Rogues brought extra damage taken debuffs and so on. When everyone has useful effects tied to their class you end up trying to fill in a group around what classes you already had rather than building towards some hypothetical maximum DPS set up.

Of course, in 25 man raids it was largely irrelevent anyway. You'd be more or less gaurenteed to have everything you needed and raids were tuned around that assumption. You still have to deal with the multiplicative nature of the buffs, but they're spread out across the entire fight rather than being compressed into a burst damage window.

The downside to that is you end up with a lot of maintainance (de)buffs, or ones that apply automatically through your rotation. It's not the most interesting way to make sure everyone has a place, but it does mean that you're only going to fully bench a job when it's seriously underperforming.

[Wrecktangle]

Perhaps the easiest way is to what WoW was doing in WotLK, where everyone brings useful buffs and tools to a group. You wanted a DPS Warrior because they gave everyone extra crit, Rogues brought extra damage taken debuffs and so on. When everyone has useful effects tied to their class you end up trying to fill in a group around what classes you already had rather than building towards some hypothetical maximum DPS set up.

Of course, in 25 man raids it was largely irrelevent anyway. You'd be more or less gaurenteed to have everything you needed and raids were tuned around that assumption. You still have to deal with the multiplicative nature of the buffs, but they're spread out across the entire fight rather than being compressed into a burst damage window.

The downside to that is you end up with a lot of maintainance (de)buffs, or ones that apply automatically through your rotation. It's not the most interesting way to make sure everyone has a place, but it does mean that you're only going to fully bench a job when it's seriously underperforming.

My issue with this is that in large formats it's irrelevant. In smaller environments it's a frustrarion due to gaps in buffs. There's literally no upside to this method. This brings me back to my point, how do you do this in a meaningful way? WotLK doesn't work and neither does FF14 style.

[StrawberryZebra]

My issue with this is that in large formats it's irrelevant. In smaller environments it's a frustrarion due to gaps in buffs. There's literally no upside to this method. This brings me back to my point, how do you do this in a meaningful way? WotLK doesn't work and neither does FF14 style.

It only ended up being irrelevent in WoW because there were too few buffs spread across too many raid spots. It was still something of a concern for 10 man raids however.

In FF14, fitting 17 useful buffs across 8 slots leads to you needing to take more care in how you'd build your raid. Intentionally skewing the balance towards melee DPS and building it towards that goal would get you better performance than taking whoever. Allowing for more specialised groups does make choosing your lineup more interesting, and pushes the game away from having one specific meta comp into a place where multiple strong comps can exist at any given time.

[Aruhen]

Why is Apex Arrow on Bard 15 yard range when everything else is 25 yards... Feels so awkward on something like Titania when the growth happens.

Also bard is legit broken I swear. I did 10K DPS with 436 item level and I fucked up my dots almost every second time, capped my soul gauge for long periods, didn't use songs and so on.

[Wrecktangle]

I'd just say do what WoW (mostly) does right now. Have more functional utility than just raw statistical "utility".

Everyone having, "Button that makes the groups damage go up by 5%" is boring and leads to this situation. But active utility lets everyone feel like they're doing something cool without creating situations where we're all just waiting for our "5% MOAR DAKKA" buttons to come up and allows for groups to come up with some small semblance of their own way to do things. That and usually no one is really clamoring for one class over all others TOO much outside of cutting edge content.

DK's have Grip. Bears have Stampeding Roar. Hunters and Rogues get threat tools. Rogues have Shroud. Pallies get Protection and Spellwarding and Freedom and shit. So on and so forth.

XIV gives very little of that. Or at least, doesn't make it relevant. You often just get your personal cooldowns and then your "Buff the group" cooldown.

Agreed. Not a bad way to go, but without encounter design to back it up it's useless as I've indicated before. Although there are a lot of jobs, might be tough to really differentiate.

It only ended up being irrelevent in WoW because there were too few buffs spread across too many raid spots. It was still something of a concern for 10 man raids however.

In FF14, fitting 17 useful buffs across 8 slots leads to you needing to take more care in how you'd build your raid. Intentionally skewing the balance towards melee DPS and building it towards that goal would get you better performance than taking whoever. Allowing for more specialised groups does make choosing your lineup more interesting, and pushes the game away from having one specific meta comp into a place where multiple strong comps can exist at any given time.

Eh, meta would still exist due to mathematical maximum unless balance was super tight. Like I said, I'm not opposed to it, but I don't think it's better than simply not having it and investing that dev time into more complex jobs or systems design.

[dope_danny]

Currently lvl.75 on Miner farming the Ill Mheg Collectible and already at 28 yellow scrip tokens for the 40 scrip miner book so it looks like they actually balanced it right this time around and you wont hit cap and be stuck farming to be able to get to endgame mats like last time around.

[Onikaroshi]

Currently lvl.75 on Miner farming the Ill Mheg Collectible and already at 28 yellow scrip tokens for the 40 scrip miner book so it looks like they actually balanced it right this time around and you wont hit cap and be stuck farming to be able to get to endgame mats like last time around.

You can probably get one book off doing crystarium deliveries alone, you get SO many yellow scrips doing them. Not to mention nearly full levels of experience every 2-3 levels.

[Aruhen]

Don't forget to do the the older custom deliveries too. They scale up to your level and sometimes give bonus exp. Ton of yellow scrips too.

[Redwyrm]

Is there a good site that explains the different jobs (mechanics/playstyles/resource management/learnability)? I have always started off playing as a THM/BM but feel like I could be missing on other fun DPS'ers. I usually gravitate towards casters but have been known to enjoy WoW's paladin style (when it the class wasn't neutered).

[Wrecktangle]

I had my first ICE MAGE guys!

I think we had Tam Tara. He was a sprout (level 40). He just kept casting blizzard over and over. I asked him about it, no response. Then another player asked, and was like clearly he's an ice mage. I gave another 2 attempts at talking to them, kindly I might add. Then I kicked them.

I felt bad because he was a sprout, but if you can't communicate...I shouldn't have to feel that bad.

[Katchii]

Is there a good site that explains the different jobs (mechanics/playstyles/resource management/learnability)? I have always started off playing as a THM/BM but feel like I could be missing on other fun DPS'ers. I usually gravitate towards casters but have been known to enjoy WoW's paladin style (when it the class wasn't neutered).

I don't know of any specific site that does this well, but there are a lot of videos on youtube about it that give a lot of good information. I personally like the "Basically X Job" videos because they give good basic information and have some humor. They're all outdated as far as abilities go since many things were updated in Shadowbringers, but the basic gist/role of each job is still the same.

The FFXIV wiki pages and official pages also have decent explanations of each job too.

Bear in mind that you have different options depending on what level you are and what story content you've unlocked, and whether you want to spend any money.

1) Fresh characters have access to Gladiator/Paladin, Marauder/ Warrior, Pugilist/Monk, Lancer/Dragoon, Archer/Bard, Thaumaturge/Black Mage, Conjurer/White Mage, Arcanist/Scholar/Summoner

2) At level 10, after finishing your starting jobs level 10 job quest you are able to go and open up every other job in the game, which includes all crafters, gatherers and the Rogue/Ninja

3) At level 50, if you have Stormblood registered to your account, you are able to unlock Red Mage and Samurai

4) After gaining access to Ishgard by either buying a story skip potion or completing all of the story quests leading there, and having a level 50 job you can unlock Dark Knight, Astrologian and Machinist

5) At level 60, if you have Shadowbringers registered to your account, you are able to unlock Dancer and Gunbreaker

Hope this helps a little bit. Good luck!

[Redwyrm]

I don't know of any specific site that does this well, but there are a lot of videos on youtube about it that give a lot of good information. I personally like the "Basically X Job" videos because they give good basic information and have some humor. They're all outdated as far as abilities go since many things were updated in Shadowbringers, but the basic gist/role of each job is still the same.

The FFXIV wiki pages and official pages also have decent explanations of each job too.

Bear in mind that you have different options depending on what level you are and what story content you've unlocked, and whether you want to spend any money.

1) Fresh characters have access to Gladiator/Paladin, Marauder/ Warrior, Pugilist/Monk, Lancer/Dragoon, Archer/Bard, Thaumaturge/Black Mage, Conjurer/White Mage, Arcanist/Scholar/Summoner

2) At level 10, after finishing your starting jobs level 10 job quest you are able to go and open up every other job in the game, which includes all crafters, gatherers and the Rogue/Ninja

3) At level 50, if you have Stormblood registered to your account, you are able to unlock Red Mage and Samurai

4) After gaining access to Ishgard by either buying a story skip potion or completing all of the story quests leading there, and having a level 50 job you can unlock Dark Knight, Astrologian and Machinist

5) At level 60, if you have Shadowbringers registered to your account, you are able to unlock Dancer and Gunbreaker

Hope this helps a little bit. Good luck!

Thanks for the breakdown. I probably won't be job hopping much anyway since from what I remember you get better experience gains if your main job is a lot higher than the alternate job.

[Onikaroshi]

I found Eden to be great fun, can't wait for savage. Though it really shows people can't figure out what abilities happen when...

[Florena]

Thanks for the breakdown. I probably won't be job hopping much anyway since from what I remember you get better experience gains if your main job is a lot higher than the alternate job.

If your currently equipped job is a lower level than your highest level job, you get extra exp. So it's useful in leveling alt jobs but doesn't give your main job any benefit. I forget exactly what % it is. I want to say 100% extra exp from killing things up to level 70 then 50% after but I may be wrong. Only affecting exp from killing things not all sources like challenge logs and roulette bonuses.

[Granyala]

Just cleared Eden normal.

Awesome bosses, pretty intense healing for normal mode. I definitely like it and the story around it.
Also digging the FF-VIII inspired theme of the first 2 while not a fan of the latter two tracks.

Hope we get an explanation where the technology of Eden comes from.

- - - Updated - - -

I found Eden to be great fun, can't wait for savage. Though it really shows people can't figure out what abilities happen when...

Well to be frank: I blame the group frame buffs not showing timers.
It's pretty damn awkward having to target a player to see when the big boom is going to well.. go boom. No biggie for me, as I am a healer but being DPS suddenly having to target players just to see the timer of the bosses mechanic?

Painfully obvious that the UI was not designed with these kind of mechanics in mind.

[Onikaroshi]

Well to be frank: I blame the group frame buffs not showing timers.
It's pretty damn awkward having to target a player to see when the big boom is going to well.. go boom. No biggie for me, as I am a healer but being DPS suddenly having to target players just to see the timer of the bosses mechanic?

Painfully obvious that the UI was not designed with these kind of mechanics in mind.

Hopefully we get some UI improvements out of that particular boss. But honestly I was speaking mostly from an E4 perspective, people can't figure out the order of the mechanics and get wiped because this row is going to explode first! but they stand in it.

[Deus Mortis]

Currently lvl.75 on Miner farming the Ill Mheg Collectible and already at 28 yellow scrip tokens for the 40 scrip miner book so it looks like they actually balanced it right this time around and you wont hit cap and be stuck farming to be able to get to endgame mats like last time around.

I actually suggest doing older turn ins from Heavensward stuff, so at 12am/pm you do adamantite(Azys Lla) ore(23 yellow scripts) since you will be far above the level the node will automatically uncover so it saves you a swing, then you will use Discerning Eye->Impulsive Appraisal 2(since you are a high level this will automatically proc DE again)->Single Mind->Impulsive Appraisal 2->Single Mind->Methodical Appraisal. This will guarantee you 5 ores every single time, and if you're lucky the node will be a +2 and give you a total of 7 ore. You repeat this process on each node, so after the 12am/pm adamantite node you will hit Lumythrite Ore or Aurum Regis Ore at 2am/pm depending on which one is giving scripts for the day. From there just go down the list.

[Onikaroshi]

I actually suggest doing older turn ins from Heavensward stuff, so at 12am/pm you do adamantite(Azys Lla) ore(23 yellow scripts) since you will be far above the level the node will automatically uncover so it saves you a swing, then you will use Discerning Eye->Impulsive Appraisal 2(since you are a high level this will automatically proc DE again)->Single Mind->Impulsive Appraisal 2->Single Mind->Methodical Appraisal. This will guarantee you 5 ores every single time, and if you're lucky the node will be a +2 and give you a total of 7 ore. You repeat this process on each node, so after the 12am/pm adamantite node you will hit Lumythrite Ore or Aurum Regis Ore at 2am/pm depending on which one is giving scripts for the day. From there just go down the list.

But then you're not leveling, doing current collectibles nets you a bunch of XP so it's 2 birds 1 stone.

[Deus Mortis]

But then you're not leveling, doing current collectibles nets you a bunch of XP so it's 2 birds 1 stone.

That is very true.