1. #45361

  2. #45362
    Quote Originally Posted by Isilarya View Post
    we had 2 groups on launch day level stuff from 60, one did dungeons mine did HoH made it a race. HoH lost by 4 minutes, so by all accounts if you are a solo dps HoH is better if you account for queues sanity or not. Same applies to palace sort of. Low level dungeon xp gains are a bit weird in that mob kills give you a massively skewed amount of xp vs what they do after like 55 so dungeons with premades might be faster for ARR / HW.
    Did you guys use POTD for 60-61?

  3. #45363
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    If every DPS job had the same potential DPS output there'd really be no point in groups having anything but the DPS that bring high utility. If that were the case there'd be nothing but Dancers in raid teams, and one Red Mage for the clutch healing and rezzing. Why would you bring a SAM or MCH if a Dancer could do the same damage and also bring all that sweet utility?

    Currently, groups choose to bring high DPS output jobs in order to push the DPS checks, that's why they bring MCH, BLM and SAM. It gives them some wiggle room

    I think they DO know what they're doing in that they're trying to have players play what they want and give each job a reason to be brought to the raid. They're attempting to balance the jobs value, not their performance which is an even more difficult thing to do since value is not as easy to parse as performance though they are absolutely related. I think they've done a pretty great job, all things considered.
    No actually there's no point in bringing jobs with utility with how it is right now (mainly dancer and ninja). As counterargument, what's the point of bringing the jobs with utility when you can bring a job that does more dps. And sure, in the top groups, people will want to bring jobs that have utility, but outside of that no one cares. All the groups I've talked to are full of sam, mch, and/or blm. It's ridiculous. Almost no ninja. People are playing dancer ofc cuz it's new but that won't last long if they stay this low.

    Like I said though, if drg gets nerfed...it's stupid. Might as well just have monk/sam/mch/blm dps comp.

    Also before anyone says anything, the dancer's buff strength comes from their dance partner buff, not the technical step. technical step isn't anything special. So you wanna bring dancer to buff 1 person at the cost of having a super low dps...?

  4. #45364
    Quote Originally Posted by blackblade View Post
    Did you guys use POTD for 60-61?
    i did the 59 dungeon. took 2 runs to lvl.

  5. #45365
    Quote Originally Posted by dk3790 View Post
    No actually there's no point in bringing jobs with utility with how it is right now (mainly dancer and ninja). As counterargument, what's the point of bringing the jobs with utility when you can bring a job that does more dps. And sure, in the top groups, people will want to bring jobs that have utility, but outside of that no one cares. All the groups I've talked to are full of sam, mch, and/or blm. It's ridiculous. Almost no ninja. People are playing dancer ofc cuz it's new but that won't last long if they stay this low.

    Like I said though, if drg gets nerfed...it's stupid. Might as well just have monk/sam/mch/blm dps comp.

    Also before anyone says anything, the dancer's buff strength comes from their dance partner buff, not the technical step. technical step isn't anything special. So you wanna bring dancer to buff 1 person at the cost of having a super low dps...?
    Really depends on the player I guess. Granted my sample pool is all of 1 night of running Titania and Innocence EX and a dungeon, but as a Dancer I was pulling ~10k DPS, which is lower than other DPS but not THAT much lower as to make the class worthless when coupled with their damage buffs.

    I get your point though, as it currently is the "utility" classes do DPS that is enough lower than the other classes as to not make them desirable to most groups.

  6. #45366
    I'd rather take a RDM or SMN than a BLM at the moment when it comes to pugs. The ability to res when it comes to new content is so helpful.

    As for the rest it doesn't really matter. Most players you encounter in pugs are average at best. Whatever high their class can reach they wont get near it.

  7. #45367
    Quote Originally Posted by blackblade View Post
    Did you guys use POTD for 60-61?
    Actually no what we used was probably only effective for the bleeding edge of ShB launch. We did Fates near Castrum Oriens. There was like 100 people zerging them it was wildly effective.

  8. #45368
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Really depends on the player I guess. Granted my sample pool is all of 1 night of running Titania and Innocence EX and a dungeon, but as a Dancer I was pulling ~10k DPS, which is lower than other DPS but not THAT much lower as to make the class worthless when coupled with their damage buffs.
    Considering that 99% is 9.4k on innocence and 9.2k on titania, I find it hard to believe you did 10k as dancer but w/e. They're around 9k right now on the high-end. Jobs like sam and mch are at 10k on the super low, not even looking, afk-end. It's a big difference. Most are at like 11k, with up to around 12k if they're getting catered.

  9. #45369
    Hmmm... 0 Deaths.



    Then I looked at some other fights:



    Then I said, I know for a fact that if I just spam Jolt or whatever the base RDM ability is I will do more damage:



    This is literally just spamming the 1 key nonstop, dualcast and all and using Fleche & Contre Sixte on cooldown. My RDM is 62 and solo, so no buffs like litany, or INT, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dk3790 View Post
    It's not really related to what you just said but it kinda just brought it up in my mind. If drg gets nerfed, they need to seriously re-evaluate what they're trying to do. If a job gets nerfed just because it has some raid utility, who the hell will play it? Let's just all roll sam, blm, and mch. I personally think this whole "dps needs to be less dps because they provide utility" is such nonsense. For me, the jobs that provide no raid utility shouldn't do more damage, it should be played because people want to play it. The jobs with more utility should be close in dps because itd be beneficial for raiding anyways if people played it just for the dmg because it provides something to the group.

    People playing the high dps jobs because it's high dps and then they also provide nothing, it's kind of annoying.

    tldr, if everyone stopped playing blm, mch, and sam because they aren't higher dps, it wouldn't be any loss because they don't provide anything anyways.
    It brings us back full circle to my original complaint, is that raid buffs actually do more to harm balance then just removing them and adding the synergy and depth internally in each job. I don't think DRG needs a nerf per se, but others need buffs, including tanks IMO. I feel like tank DPS was butchered this expansion. I can barely sustain 50% of a top DPS' performance, so now even the worst of average players outperform me. It makes me not feel rewarded for playing well.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    I wonder how much of this is due to language barriers.

    I'm not sure if it's a huge problem in other regions, but on EU servers I often end up in groups where the majority of the communication is in Itallian. Or Swedish, or Spanish. There is a different option to queue for French and German speakers, but English is the default for most of Europe that falls out of those two options. Queuing in the roulette and getting placed into a group that's chosen to use a language other than English is just par for the course. If you're completely unable to communicate with the rest of your group, situations are going to go sideways fast.

    I'd assume that some US data centers are in a similar position, where you'd have potential French speakers from Canada and perhaps a couple of Spanish speakers from South Americans who are playing there for latency reasons.
    I'm in NA and while what you're saying is certainly possible, I have to imagine that the sheer frequency of it implies that the theory isn't likely.

  10. #45370
    Quote Originally Posted by dk3790 View Post
    Considering that 99% is 9.4k on innocence and 9.2k on titania, I find it hard to believe you did 10k as dancer but w/e. They're around 9k right now on the high-end. Jobs like sam and mch are at 10k on the super low, not even looking, afk-end. It's a big difference. Most are at like 11k, with up to around 12k if they're getting catered.
    I don't run ACT, asked a buddy who I ran with that night how I was doing and he gave the number because he runs ACT. It may have been from the Expert dungeon we ran prior to the EX stuff while waiting for the rest of the group to be ready. Not sure. I actually didn't ask or pay attention to how my performance was during the trials. We cleared Titania EX 3 times and moved on to Innocence who we didn't clear once due to not being able to beat the enrage timer because we had a couple DPS who just flat out couldn't hack it, mechanics or DPS wise. I know I was at least performing up to par in that respect, just not sure what the number was.

    If that's the case where top end MCH, SAM and BLM are @ 12k and top end DNC are ~9.5k that's a more than minor difference. If they were only ~5% less that would be one thing, but that's like a ~30% difference, which is ridiculous. Thanks for the info.

  11. #45371
    If a DNC is doing 9.5k themselves, you have to also consider the increase in damage they're offering another DPS as part of their overall damage contribution. That's a key factor in support classes.

    Such is the situation of support classes. It's harder to quantify how much someone else's numbers are increased as a result of the support class' presence.

    9.5k seems like a wide gap to 12k but if that's 9.5 plus another 2k boosted as a result of their dance partner, etc. then you're actually balancing out more reasonably.

    I'll leave it to the more obsessive to math out everything and determine the minutia of the details, though. Our raid has always been about people playing what they like and we find a way to make it work as a group.

  12. #45372
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    It brings us back full circle to my original complaint, is that raid buffs actually do more to harm balance then just removing them and adding the synergy and depth internally in each job. I don't think DRG needs a nerf per se, but others need buffs, including tanks IMO. I feel like tank DPS was butchered this expansion. I can barely sustain 50% of a top DPS' performance, so now even the worst of average players outperform me. It makes me not feel rewarded for playing well.
    You wanna talk about not feeling rewarded....it's playing an actual dps job but you cant do your full potential cuz you don't have the right comp and if you do another dps is getting all the buffs. I never had issue getting 90% or higher in wow but it's such a freaking chore in this game. Someday, dps will be managing your own shit and not relying on other people's buffs and whatnot. Removing the debuffs was a good first step, time to do more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    If a DNC is doing 9.5k themselves, you have to also consider the increase in damage they're offering another DPS as part of their overall damage contribution. That's a key factor in support classes.

    Such is the situation of support classes. It's harder to quantify how much someone else's numbers are increased as a result of the support class' presence.

    9.5k seems like a wide gap to 12k but if that's 9.5 plus another 2k boosted as a result of their dance partner, etc. then you're actually balancing out more reasonably.

    I'll leave it to the more obsessive to math out everything and determine the minutia of the details, though. Our raid has always been about people playing what they like and we find a way to make it work as a group.
    It's 9.5k at the highest, like 100%. How many people do you think are doing that? The buff they give isn't worth bringing them over another job like mch right now. Only point to bring them right now is to pad someone's numbers. Also something else that wasn't mentioned since it's kind of off-topic but another issue with dancer right now is they're 100% rng-dependent so you can't even guarantee you can do 9.5k even if you are the best player in the world. Some pulls you will do much less with 0 fault. It's in a not good state atm.

  13. #45373
    Quote Originally Posted by dk3790 View Post
    It's 9.5k at the highest, like 100%. How many people do you think are doing that? The buff they give isn't worth bringing them over another job like mch right now. Only point to bring them right now is to pad someone's numbers. Also something else that wasn't mentioned since it's kind of off-topic but another issue with dancer right now is they're 100% rng-dependent so you can't even guarantee you can do 9.5k even if you are the best player in the world. Some pulls you will do much less with 0 fault. It's in a not good state atm.
    Nothing you said addressed my question. How much of an increase do their buffs/dance partner increase?

    You absolutely cannot take a class that is designed around increasing someone else's DPS as a support and look purely at the support class' direct DPS output and base an argument for them being horrible off that.

    If they're not offering enough in the increase on others' to balance it, then yes, 100% they need boosting. It's a new job, it's not a surprise. We've been through this multiple times now and the team has made tweaks in the first patch to start buffing the new job up in the past. But when I see people saying a class that's built somewhat as a support class isn't pumping out enough pure damage themselves, I have to ask if people are absolutely ignoring the concept of support / buffing another DPS in the equation.

    This is one of the reasons I get so damn irritated with the parser obsessed crowd. They so often get tunnel vision that the only thing they care about is how big their direct numbers are on a chart.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2019-07-23 at 05:53 PM.

  14. #45374
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I don't run ACT, asked a buddy who I ran with that night how I was doing and he gave the number because he runs ACT. It may have been from the Expert dungeon we ran prior to the EX stuff while waiting for the rest of the group to be ready. Not sure. I actually didn't ask or pay attention to how my performance was during the trials. We cleared Titania EX 3 times and moved on to Innocence who we didn't clear once due to not being able to beat the enrage timer because we had a couple DPS who just flat out couldn't hack it, mechanics or DPS wise. I know I was at least performing up to par in that respect, just not sure what the number was.

    If that's the case where top end MCH, SAM and BLM are @ 12k and top end DNC are ~9.5k that's a more than minor difference. If they were only ~5% less that would be one thing, but that's like a ~30% difference, which is ridiculous. Thanks for the info.
    It was the dungeon, The EX was like a little over 6k IIRC. Nothing terrible for a min ilvl first time to the EX, especially with that trap ass party.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    If a DNC is doing 9.5k themselves, you have to also consider the increase in damage they're offering another DPS as part of their overall damage contribution. That's a key factor in support classes.

    Such is the situation of support classes. It's harder to quantify how much someone else's numbers are increased as a result of the support class' presence.

    9.5k seems like a wide gap to 12k but if that's 9.5 plus another 2k boosted as a result of their dance partner, etc. then you're actually balancing out more reasonably.

    I'll leave it to the more obsessive to math out everything and determine the minutia of the details, though. Our raid has always been about people playing what they like and we find a way to make it work as a group.
    FFLogs is actually working on implementing a way to attribute padded DPS to the originator. I.e. DNC's DPS will be calculated in the logs by how much the player is boosted by, same with AST, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dk3790 View Post
    You wanna talk about not feeling rewarded....it's playing an actual dps job but you cant do your full potential cuz you don't have the right comp and if you do another dps is getting all the buffs. I never had issue getting 90% or higher in wow but it's such a freaking chore in this game. Someday, dps will be managing your own shit and not relying on other people's buffs and whatnot. Removing the debuffs was a good first step, time to do more.
    I mean tanks are basically DPS too. I hate feeling like buffs don't apply to me (cards, DNC, tether, etc.) or not having trick attack/litany/chain, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Nothing you said addressed my question. How much of an increase do their buffs/dance partner increase?

    This is one of the reasons I get so damn irritated with the parser obsessed crowd. They so often get tunnel vision that the only thing they care about is how big their direct numbers are on a chart.
    For me, on PLD, it was roughly a 600 DPS increase (or 9% gain). It's usually a bit higher on a DPS, but I'm not comfortable stating how much off the cuff because I haven't looked intimately at it.

    The parser crowd, IMO, is right to be annoyed only because it's breeding a situation that we didn't want, that even the devs acknowledged they didn't want, but then they turned around and did it anyway while simultaneously removing other aspects of the issue. It makes them look like they're not sure what they're doing, but then again, balance was never this games strong suit. Yes it's not ANYWHERE as bad as WoW's (which before @Dugna accuses me of being a hate boner wielder, is undeniably awful), but it's also an infinitely more intricate game with significantly more variables. I expect much better balance from SE, because they have significantly less variables.

  15. #45375
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Nothing you said addressed my question. How much of an increase do their buffs/dance partner increase?
    The buff that's possible to be up 100% of the time gives a 5% increase, the other one is a 5% increase to the raid/group on a 2 minute cooldown and the ridiculous Direct Hit and Critical hit buff is to the dance partner every 2 minutes.

    Let's say ~5% as a conservative estimate, for the 1 person who has the full time buff because that's really the only unique thing about Dancer is that 10% up time buff on one other party member, several other DPS classes have raid wide output buffs.. That means it would increase a top tier DPS doing 12k to 12.6 k, while they are only doing ~9-9.5k.... the 600 DPS added isn't worth the 2.5k+ gap between DNC and another DPS. And that 600 DPS is for a top tier performing top tier DPS class...and the 2.5 k difference is a top tier performing Dancer. The average players will have lower numbers which make the gap even more pronounced.

    You absolutely cannot take a class that is designed around increasing someone else's DPS as a support and look purely at the support class' direct DPS output and base an argument for them being horrible off that.
    See above. I agree with your logic, however putting that logic in practice as it stands now really just highlights that DNC isn't really worth the raid spot given the pretty huge disparity between them and most other DPS classes. There's a 25%+ difference in top tier performance outputs according to current parses.

    If they're not offering enough in the increase on others' to balance it, then yes, 100% they need boosting. It's a new job, it's not a surprise. We've been through this multiple times now and the team has made tweaks in the first patch to start buffing the new job up in the past. But when I see people saying a class that's built somewhat as a support class isn't pumping out enough pure damage themselves, I have to ask if people are absolutely ignoring the concept of support / buffing another DPS in the equation.
    All this. The job is fun to play and it's mechanics are fine (though it could stand to be a bit less RNG reliant), but just flat out isn't competitive with other DPS classes and needs buffing as far as it's own personal performance. That's a pretty easy fix though, comparatively, just tweak some potency numbers on their abilities and that's it, no huge mechanics changes really necessary.

    This is one of the reasons I get so damn irritated with the parser obsessed crowd. They so often get tunnel vision that the only thing they care about is how big their direct numbers are on a chart.
    To be fair, those parses provide hard evidence as to what the actual gap is and how much of a buff/ nerf is necessary. In most content it doesn't matter at all since it's not all that difficult. In the high end content with legit enrage timers and hard DPS checks though, performance is all that matters. In that kind of content, DNC is really not worth the raid spot currently, compared to other DPS classes because the 5% buff it gives doesn't make up for how much less it' DPS is from other classes.

    I love Dancer, it's the most fun I've had playing a job in a long time, but I can't argue with the numbers as they are. I'll still play it in dungeons and normal mode raids, but with current performance, I'll be aiming to get another higher performing DPS class ready for Extremes trials. I don't do Savage or Ultimate stuff.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    It was the dungeon, The EX was like a little over 6k IIRC. Nothing terrible for a min ilvl first time to the EX, especially with that trap ass party.
    Oof. Well...thanks for the information and pretty much solidifying my decision to gear something else out for that kind of content. No way can I compete for a spot in a raid team with performance like that.

    Like you said though, was my first time into either EX so sub par performance is somewhat expected, but I just don't see the performance going up enough from that garbage to something competitive enough to warrant a spot on a raid team.

  16. #45376
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    While I guess this is a possibility, anyone queuing in Duty Finder with a language option checked that they don't understand is pretty much asking for trouble.
    A lot of the issues arise because there simply isn't a language option for everyone. My options are Japanese, English, German and French. Europe has a lot more languages than just those four. Japanese isn't a European Language so I'm not sure why it was included to begin with, but I digress. Having every single European Language on the list would definately include everyone, but at the cost of super long matchmaking queues so it's simply too impractical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I can't deny the possibility that some folks simply don't respond at all is because they don't understand what's being said, but I'm not convinced that this is a reasonable excuse or root cause for groups failing to clear trials. I'd still think player skill is more to blame than anything else.
    I've also been put into matchmade groups with a partially premade group who are talking in Finnish, or Polish or some other language I don't have even a basic grasp of what's being said. Sometimes I am "That guy who doesn't understand what's being said". It's very alienating, to the point where I usually just turn the chat off. While it's never been the outright cause of repeated wipes and inability to clear content, it has caused a lot of issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    I'm in NA and while what you're saying is certainly possible, I have to imagine that the sheer frequency of it implies that the theory isn't likely.
    Possiably not. It's an issue I run into often enough for it to be a problem, but not having ever played outside the EU (I do kind of live here, playing in another region would cause all kinds of problems), I can't say with any degree of certainty if it happens elsewhere too. I was simply putting forwards an idea that would line up with my own experiences.

  17. #45377
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    A lot of the issues arise because there simply isn't a language option for everyone. My options are Japanese, English, German and French. Europe has a lot more languages than just those four. Japanese isn't a European Language so I'm not sure why it was included to begin with, but I digress. Having every single European Language on the list would definately include everyone, but at the cost of super long matchmaking queues so it's simply too impractical.
    While a fair point, I think the likelihood that someone in Europe doesn't speak/understand any French, German OR English at all are pretty slim.

    Those four languages were chosen for the base client because they represent the largest populations and most widely known languages around the world, aside from Mandarin and maybe Cantonese but those would be specific to the Chinese client I'm sure.

    I've also been put into matchmade groups with a partially premade group who are talking in Finnish, or Polish or some other language I don't have even a basic grasp of what's being said. Sometimes I am "That guy who doesn't understand what's being said". It's very alienating, to the point where I usually just turn the chat off. While it's never been the outright cause of repeated wipes and inability to clear content, it has caused a lot of issues.
    Which is unfortunate. Language barriers do obviously cause issues, that's not really but as you say, it wasn't the outright cause for the inability to clear content, which was the main point of the discussion.

    Possiably not. It's an issue I run into often enough for it to be a problem, but not having ever played outside the EU (I do kind of live here, playing in another region would cause all kinds of problems), I can't say with any degree of certainty if it happens elsewhere too. I was simply putting forwards an idea that would line up with my own experiences.
    Fair enough. I'm sure the issues you discuss would be pretty prevalent in a region so rife with different languages because of the number of countries involved. A similar situation just simply doesn't exist within the NA Data Centers. English is the hugely predominant language, and the vast majority of people who do speak another language also know enough English to make it not a problem in communication, though Exceptions do obviously exist. It would be like finding a Unicorn to end up in a PUG group on the NA data center with you being the only party member that spoke/understood English.

  18. #45378
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    The buff that's possible to be up 100% of the time gives a 5% increase, the other one is a 5% increase to the raid/group on a 2 minute cooldown and the ridiculous Direct Hit and Critical hit buff is to the dance partner every 2 minutes.

    Let's say ~5% as a conservative estimate, for the 1 person who has the full time buff because that's really the only unique thing about Dancer is that 10% up time buff on one other party member, several other DPS classes have raid wide output buffs.. That means it would increase a top tier DPS doing 12k to 12.6 k, while they are only doing ~9-9.5k.... the 600 DPS added isn't worth the 2.5k+ gap between DNC and another DPS. And that 600 DPS is for a top tier performing top tier DPS class...and the 2.5 k difference is a top tier performing Dancer. The average players will have lower numbers which make the gap even more pronounced.
    That's the detail I was looking for.

    And by that logic, yep, Dancer needs buffing, though I'm not really going to sweat it until the first patch. Square's addressed drastic gaps in the first patch after expansions before and I've felt they generally approach fine tuning with a scalpel rather than the chainsaw I was accustomed to in WoW. Perhaps sometimes even a little too conservatively, but better than the wild pendulum swing approach.

    I'm sure the official forums have plenty of people detailing the gaps and while the parsers are a hush hush thing officially, Square Enix most certainly has access to such data when they do their first pass on adjusting the jobs.

    To be fair, those parses provide hard evidence as to what the actual gap is and how much of a buff/ nerf is necessary. In most content it doesn't matter at all since it's not all that difficult. In the high end content with legit enrage timers and hard DPS checks though, performance is all that matters. In that kind of content, DNC is really not worth the raid spot currently, compared to other DPS classes because the 5% buff it gives doesn't make up for how much less it' DPS is from other classes.
    Right, that's using it as an evaluation tool. When it becomes a fixation purely on personal output and absolutely nothing else is considered, it's irritating.

    I love Dancer, it's the most fun I've had playing a job in a long time, but I can't argue with the numbers as they are. I'll still play it in dungeons and normal mode raids, but with current performance, I'll be aiming to get another higher performing DPS class ready for Extremes trials. I don't do Savage or Ultimate stuff.
    I'll let you know how our group handles Extreme Trials. Our dancer ain't changin' at this point. They're getting BLM up next for the variety, but they'll be sticking with Dancer for a while.

    I'm more concerned about our entire group having raid rust of having not done anything current in years. We've not had a full 8 and with only a few hours once a week, we were having laid back pony, then bird, farming nights. Just having fun doing the previous primals, treasure maps, and Chocobo racing.

  19. #45379
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I'll let you know how our group handles Extreme Trials. Our dancer ain't changin' at this point. They're getting BLM up next for the variety, but they'll be sticking with Dancer for a while.

    I'm more concerned about our entire group having raid rust of having not done anything current in years. We've not had a full 8 and with only a few hours once a week, we were having laid back pony, then bird, farming nights. Just having fun doing the previous primals, treasure maps, and Chocobo racing.
    I'm leveling everything else anyway at this point so it's not like I'm going out of my way to get away from Dancer. I'm sure there will be adjustments made pretty quickly. I'll likely go with Machinist because I'm having fun with that too so the gear I am gathering is applicable to Dancer anyway so whenever they're desirable again I'm all good.

  20. #45380
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Oof. Well...thanks for the information and pretty much solidifying my decision to gear something else out for that kind of content. No way can I compete for a spot in a raid team with performance like that.

    Like you said though, was my first time into either EX so sub par performance is somewhat expected, but I just don't see the performance going up enough from that garbage to something competitive enough to warrant a spot on a raid team.
    Nothing to be ashamed of. Finish leveling your MCH. We need a physical ranged. Or stay DNC and get really good at it and pad our BLM. Shouldn't have any issues clearing.

    Not like these content respecters:
    • 0 Deaths
    • Bottom SAM was spamming meditate in front of the boss? Not sure why
    • SCH was holding down his physick key harder than anything I've ever seen. The second I dropped below 95% HP, spammed Physick 2-3x, 81% overhealing


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