1. #45381
    Herald of the Titans The Oblivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriHard View Post
    And you are getting banned. End of story.
    See what I did there? :^) Yoink
    nope, i wont.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Binaris View Post
    As they should. Difference in playstyle is a valid kick. Playing so poorly that it makes you wonder how someone could either be so ignorant or so inconsiderate is surely a difference. It is not your job to teach someone how to play their class. Trying to do so will almost always get you reported. The best thing you can do is say nothing unless it is something clearly visible without meters. Self buffs and full mp were always good indicators.

    - - - Updated - - -



    No ban. Gms have outright said difference in playstyle is a kickable offense. The issue is when verbal harassment comes with that kick.
    we never say anything because of how care bear the community is, we just kick the leeches and move on

  2. #45382
    Quote Originally Posted by Binaris View Post
    IM not talking for the people who had a bad run or are simply lacking the gear. If I had a dollar for every person I run into that outright plays wrong, refuses to use abilities, and simply commits the douchebaggery of demanding carries, I wouldn't have to pay my sub.

    Ninjas who are salty they aren't rogues refusing to use ninjutsu
    Black mages rping that they are scared of fire, or even more shockingly, try to argue mathematically that ice is only a 10% loss.

    General bad play at expert dungeons should not be acceptable. There is no reason for it, the game makes it obvious what you SHOULD do to at least have an acceptable performance. Many ignore that like it is an artform.
    I can't help but feel like this phenomena must be either on a different datacenter or grossly exaggerated. I almost never see stuff like this.

    In what must be thousands of expert roulettes by now and many other runs, most players who do stuff like this are just not aware they should be playing any differently. The ice mage has become something of a meme but I have yet to see it even once and I've done a lot of roulettes.

    I can count on one hand how many times I've seen someone on my datacenter being intentionally bad, and that was a bard in a 3-person premade who literally wouldn't move because she was salty that Bardmage was a thing in Heavensward. "if they're going to add cast times then i'm just not going to move".

    Quote Originally Posted by The Oblivion View Post
    we never say anything because of how care bear the community is, we just kick the leeches and move on
    It's less of care bear and more that GMs actually enforce their own rules.

    I don't really see it as a bad thing that you're not allowed to berate a player for possibly just being inexperienced or bad at MMORPGs. You still have the option to kick them, and can if you want. I don't know what's wrong with also enforcing, partially community-side, the idea that you're not allowed to belittle people. You're perfectly allowed to give advice or ask them wtf is going on, you're just not allowed to abuse them.
    Last edited by Irian; 2019-06-06 at 04:55 AM.

  3. #45383
    Herald of the Titans The Oblivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    I can't help but feel like this phenomena must be either on a different datacenter or grossly exaggerated. I almost never see stuff like this.

    In what must be thousands of expert roulettes by now and many other runs, most players who do stuff like this are just not aware they should be playing any differently. The ice mage has become something of a meme but I have yet to see it even once and I've done a lot of roulettes.

    I can count on one hand how many times I've seen someone on my datacenter being intentionally bad, and that was a bard in a 3-person premade who literally wouldn't move because she was salty that Bardmage was a thing in Heavensward. "if they're going to add cast times then i'm just not going to move".

    It's less of care bear and more that GMs actually enforce their own rules.

    I don't really see it as a bad thing that you're not allowed to berate a player for possibly just being inexperienced or bad at MMORPGs. You still have the option to kick them, and can if you want. I don't know what's wrong with also enforcing, partially community-side, the idea that you're not allowed to belittle people. You're perfectly allowed to give advice or ask them wtf is going on, you're just not allowed to abuse them.
    also known as care bear.

  4. #45384
    Quote Originally Posted by The Oblivion View Post
    also known as care bear.
    So you think not allowing people to abuse pugs who are worse than them is equivalent to being a care bear?

    I'm really glad you don't run any MMORPGs.

  5. #45385
    Bloodsail Admiral Dugna's Avatar
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    sounds like some of yall should never run random que content ever, if you don't wish to deal with the variable of bad players then don't sign up for the roulette.

  6. #45386
    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    I can't help but feel like this phenomena must be either on a different datacenter or grossly exaggerated. I almost never see stuff like this.
    Chances are that if something like this is happening a lot to someone, the common thing in all these instances and situations is that the person who keeps "stumbling onto bad players" isn't aware of him/her being a problem or at least part of the problem (raging or being toxic just makes things go from "slightly bad" to real bad).

    I played MMORPGs for a LONG time now and this almost never happens to me. Not in WoW, Rag or FF when I played it.

    TLDR; if it happens a lot with "you", consider "you" being the problem.
    Thanks for the heads up!

  7. #45387
    I see a lot of people bashing on the use of ACT or kicking random bads. Here is my input on this. I pretty much use ACT all the time just to figure stuff out. My parses have always been mostly oranges and high purples. That being said I never played the elitist card in groups or flaunted my deeps.
    ON THE OTHER HAND.... sometimes there are players who are bad at a level that is impossible to be bad.
    Riddle me this. How can a warrior of 395 average ilvl with the fucking Eureka 405 weapon be dealing 1700 dps in a lakshimi farm run?
    It's almost mathematically impossible. Even if the dude was literally spamming one combo the entire fight and expending his bar on fel cleaves every so often I m pretty sure he d be dealing more than 2k.
    I ve had even worse in expert roulettes. How can you have played these many hours of the game (cause it takes quite a few hours to get to max on this game) and be this clueless about at least the most basic things that your class does.

  8. #45388
    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    I see a lot of people bashing on the use of ACT or kicking random bads.
    I'm personally hugely in favor of both of these things, although I can't speak for anything else.

    ACT is almost mandatory if you want to become really good at the game, as many savage fights balance themselves around enrage timers to make sure you can't just fall all over your face, spam raises and get by. I'm also in favor of kicking players who are so far below the demands of that particular dungeon because getting wordlessly kicked a lot might give them the hint that they're dragging a party down without having to be a douche about it. Hell, I'd even suggest acknowledging players who aren't doing great as long as you're not a huge ass about it.

    The only thing I'm personally strongly against is shit talk and abuse towards underperforming players. I've never been on the receiving end of it but I can't fucking stand this very WoW-born MMORPG mentality of shitting all over a player just because they may not know the game as well as someone else. It's childish as hell and should be shamed way more than the person who might be trying to learn a new class should be.

  9. #45389
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephre View Post
    Because the vast majority of the community simply don't care if they're bad, they play for fun, this isn't WoW where everyone has their heads up their own ass over how good they are and that's a damn good thing because that shit breeds toxicity and FFXIV doesn't need WoW's toxicity seeping in.

    I'd also recommend not using ACT to mock people or mentioning ACT, it's not a popular addon for a lot of people and from what I've read on the reddit SE can suspend/ban you if you use ACT to abuse people over their performances, whether that's true or not, I don't know but be careful when using it.
    Toxicity is a bad thing but if you r advocating that people not knowing their rotations is a good thing.... oh boy

  10. #45390
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    But using your specific example, you would have been fine/content/happy with your performance but seeing the actual numbers made you not so much. You admitted that knowing/seeing the numbers affected your experience negatively, where you would have been fine otherwise.
    Frustration is one of the reasons why we strive to be better. Not just in video games.
    When playing a musical instrument and my playing sucks/is not presentable to others, that feeling of inadequacy (as long as it isn't overwhelming to the point that you give up ofc) spurs you to practice more, get better and ultimately "win" by presenting a more refined piece.

    Mistakes are the best teachers available, covering them up so the feels do not get ruffled is the worst thing one can do. I get that many people love pretending and love lying to themselves though. See it plenty in all kinds of real life situations, not many people actually like to self reflect.
    Last edited by Granyala; 2019-06-06 at 12:11 PM.

  11. #45391
    People analyzing performance on dungeon runs that were obsolete the day they came out and getting angry about people's DPS are basically creating their own frustration.

    "You know, I know this DPS isn't performance up to par. I know that when I can't see ACT and the run goes smoothly with no wipes and finishes in a reasonable time, the experience is just telling my brain that everything is going okay. After nine years, you know what I realize? Ignorance is bliss."

    If you're doing savage raids, I get it. If you're watching ACT like a hawk in roulettes and pouring over it afterwards, you're just abusing yourself.

  12. #45392
    Quote Originally Posted by Binaris View Post
    Meh, I use ACT in dungeons so that I can see whose playstyle differs from my own. I like to play like I have other relying on me and put forth the effort. Act tells me when someones playstyle does not match that so I know who I can vote to remove based on difference in playstyle.
    I might need to use this. This words just so passive aggressively that it fits in with the the typical anti-ACT person frothing at the mouth over reporting people who use ACT. I love it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Not doing your best =/= being carried. There's a pretty profound difference, IMO, to having a "less than average run" and being carried.
    Speaking strictly of dungeon content, there really isn't. AOE is a one button rotation for most jobs. The floor is so astronomically low that all you have to do is push AOE buttons and an occasional oGCD and you can do the near maximum amount of damage your job can for your current gear level.

    In the example provided (and one I have from last night), 2K DPS is not acceptable in a dungeon run, it wasn't acceptable at i300, and it sure as hell isn't acceptable at i390+. I had a BRD in Ghimlyt Dark who did literally 2.2k DPS overall. He was i395 ish (400 tomestone and a crafted 390 weapon).

    This is exactly why they don't want meters in the game. "Difference in play style" as you put is not a good enough reason to kick someone, unless they're literally holding the group back from completing the content.

    While in principal I agree with you wanting to kick them, because they're being dead weight, kicking them is unnecessary. You'd still be able to complete the content with them performing that way.

    Kicking someone for low DPS is technically harassment on your part. Though it could be argued they're harassing you by being that bad and actively hindering the party efficiency, the TOS don't work that way currently, and I can understand why.
    The problem with this - IMO is that even my fabled shield lob only tank made it to level 50+ with only a singular instance of someone calling him out (me). That means he did 10+ dungeons with someone only calling him out ONE TIME. It also means he had no troubles completing said dungeons. We have to draw a line as a community that is reasonable and unfortunately the devs have done a terrible fucking job setting the floor so astronomically low that stuff like this happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    I can't help but feel like this phenomena must be either on a different datacenter or grossly exaggerated. I almost never see stuff like this.
    Do you run ACT? Yes or no.

    I don't really see it as a bad thing that you're not allowed to berate a player for possibly just being inexperienced or bad at MMORPGs. You still have the option to kick them, and can if you want. I don't know what's wrong with also enforcing, partially community-side, the idea that you're not allowed to belittle people. You're perfectly allowed to give advice or ask them wtf is going on, you're just not allowed to abuse them.
    Who said ANYTHING about berating a player for being bad or inexperienced? Not a single person here wants to harass or berate a player. We want the ability for them to see how poorly they're playing and be able to point them to resources to help them improve. Not a SINGLE pro-parser person wants to harass another player, nor do we want punishment for harassment to go away.

    You are not allowed to give advice in the current environment. Sure you can, but not only does it fall on deaf ears (because there's no proof the advice is accurate or relevant), but players are empowered in the current environment to report people for anything their heart desires.

    Quote Originally Posted by evertonbelmontt View Post
    Chances are that if something like this is happening a lot to someone, the common thing in all these instances and situations is that the person who keeps "stumbling onto bad players" isn't aware of him/her being a problem or at least part of the problem (raging or being toxic just makes things go from "slightly bad" to real bad).

    I played MMORPGs for a LONG time now and this almost never happens to me. Not in WoW, Rag or FF when I played it.

    TLDR; if it happens a lot with "you", consider "you" being the problem.
    It happens all the time to me, 99% of the time I don't say a word. Only in the truly bad cases do I say something. If you don't run ACT you simply don't have the tools or information to make the claim you're making. Ignorance is bliss as they say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    I see a lot of people bashing on the use of ACT or kicking random bads. Here is my input on this. I pretty much use ACT all the time just to figure stuff out. My parses have always been mostly oranges and high purples. That being said I never played the elitist card in groups or flaunted my deeps.
    ON THE OTHER HAND.... sometimes there are players who are bad at a level that is impossible to be bad.
    Riddle me this. How can a warrior of 395 average ilvl with the fucking Eureka 405 weapon be dealing 1700 dps in a lakshimi farm run?
    It's almost mathematically impossible. Even if the dude was literally spamming one combo the entire fight and expending his bar on fel cleaves every so often I m pretty sure he d be dealing more than 2k.
    I ve had even worse in expert roulettes. How can you have played these many hours of the game (cause it takes quite a few hours to get to max on this game) and be this clueless about at least the most basic things that your class does.
    Bingo. For additional context, I have saved parse runs of me as a PLD, in i296 gear (had to cheat to sneak into Lakshmi EX) doing 1700 DPS as main tank, in FULL TIME SHIELD OATH.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Frustration is one of the reasons why we strive to be better. Not just in video games.
    When playing a musical instrument and my playing sucks/is not presentable to others, that feeling of inadequacy (as long as it isn't overwhelming to the point that you give up ofc) spurs you to practice more, get better and ultimately "win" by presenting a more refined piece.

    Mistakes are the best teachers available, covering them up so the feels do not get ruffled is the worst thing one can do. I get that many people love pretending and love lying to themselves though. See it plenty in all kinds of real life situations, not many people actually like to self reflect.
    Couldn't have said it better myself. There would be growing pains for sure, but as a whole the community would level up and get better and be more inclined to help people. Think about it for a second. If you cleared the dungeon, but saw the other DPS do more than triple your DPS. You might say, damn what the fuck did I do wrong? We have the same gear. Hey man, how'd you do so much damage? The more experienced player would look and be like XYZ. Maybe he points them to a guide, maybe he says something stupid like lol you fucking scrub get good, but then you report him and it's no different than today.

    That's a core issue this game is facing and it's one WoW has already. The community has gotten considerably better over the years as their skill levels improve. The difference is in FF14, only EX/Savage players are getting better and as they improve and the others stagnate friction continues to build and build because SE thinks its wiser to mix these playerbases whereas WoW feels it's better to segregate them.
    Last edited by Wrecktangle; 2019-06-06 at 01:49 PM.

  13. #45393
    Elemental Lord Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Okay, so we need to separate different situations honestly. If there's a grey parser in your savage raid who's spamming Blizzard 3 or something. Kick him. No question. Savage is the hardest content in the game outside of the Ultimate fights and you need to put in the appropriate skill and effort to do them. But if they're doing a dungeon why does it matter? Some people in this game, in fact probably a very large amount, play the game purely for the story. They don't want to spend hours practicing at a dummy, reading job guides, and looking over logs just to be better at content that doesn't require near that level of play. I mean some of the jobs in FFXIV can be kinda complex or at least not very straightfoward, so I don't really blame people who don't really know how to play their jobs so long as they aren't holding me back from completing content.

    I feel like you guys think you're saving these people, but in reality a lot of them probably don't care to spend the time to get better, because it honestly does take time practicing and analyzing your play before you become good. If they're in savage or extreme? Kick them. If they're AFK/Not attacking/Auto attacking/Causing excessive wipes? Kick them. If not, then why does it really matter? Don't get me wrong, seeing low numbers on ACT would probably bother me too, but at the end of the day if that shit bothers you then just don't turn it on in irrelevant content. I'm gonna keep it on when I see fit because I don't get triggered by that shit unless it has negative consequences for me, but if you do get triggered by it, then do yourself a favor and leave it off.

    My point is that in a lot of cases, you're wasting your breath. People don't care to get better because they don't need to. They are enjoying the game as it is and that's good enough for them. If that's not good enough for you then either run with friends who are good or turn ACT off so you don't tilt yourself.

  14. #45394
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    Okay, so we need to separate different situations honestly. If there's a grey parser in your savage raid who's spamming Blizzard 3 or something. Kick him. No question. Savage is the hardest content in the game outside of the Ultimate fights and you need to put in the appropriate skill and effort to do them. But if they're doing a dungeon why does it matter? Some people in this game, in fact probably a very large amount, play the game purely for the story. They don't want to spend hours practicing at a dummy, reading job guides, and looking over logs just to be better at content that doesn't require near that level of play. I mean some of the jobs in FFXIV can be kinda complex or at least not very straightfoward, so I don't really blame people who don't really know how to play their jobs so long as they aren't holding me back from completing content.

    I feel like you guys think you're saving these people, but in reality a lot of them probably don't care to spend the time to get better, because it honestly does take time practicing and analyzing your play before you become good. If they're in savage or extreme? Kick them. If they're AFK/Not attacking/Auto attacking/Causing excessive wipes? Kick them. If not, then why does it really matter? Don't get me wrong, seeing low numbers on ACT would probably bother me too, but at the end of the day if that shit bothers you then just don't turn it on in irrelevant content. I'm gonna keep it on when I see fit because I don't get triggered by that shit unless it has negative consequences for me, but if you do get triggered by it, then do yourself a favor and leave it off.

    My point is that in a lot of cases, you're wasting your breath. People don't care to get better because they don't need to. They are enjoying the game as it is and that's good enough for them. If that's not good enough for you then either run with friends who are good or turn ACT off so you don't tilt yourself.
    I mean if people offer advice and suggestions and you don't care, especially that you're making things worse for your party by being useless, then why not kick them? Maybe if they get kicked enough they'll take the small amount of time to look up a quick guide and instantly have a better understanding of their job. When I'm a healer in 375 green gear, the tank pulls wall to wall, and the mobs take 50 years to die, and the bosses take 50 years to die, and I'm doing second highest damage behind the tank, that's a problem. What? We should just be kind and nice to these people who play an MMO and don't care about anything but the story, despite the weight they put onto others, even if it is sometimes irrelevant content?

    It's amazing to me how scared people are of trying to encourage people to be better, and when you say something you're instantly the bad guy because "It's just a game" or something. Some people are totally unaware of how badly they are doing, and since you could get banned for even mentioning it to the group or even talking about it casually you can, these people just never have any reason to improve. If that's the kind of attitude some people want to take it's no wonder players never get better like that.

    I play several jobs, but healer the most, so believe me when I say a lot of ignored mechanics, bad DPS, and bad tanks put a lot of weight on myself, which is why it's frustrating you make an excuse for someone that can't watch a 10 minute video and use the time in casual content to improve their rotations. I mean these days it's just wasted time to try and explain, but I've met sprouts that are more willing to listen to advice than fucking vets who have played for much longer and still are not good. I never go out of my way to be rude but I'd be lying if I said it's a bit depressing.
    Last edited by La; 2019-06-06 at 02:27 PM.
    *Insert every single ridiculous PC parts detail here that no one cares about*

  15. #45395
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    If you cleared the dungeon, but saw the other DPS do more than triple your DPS. You might say, damn what the fuck did I do wrong? We have the same gear. Hey man, how'd you do so much damage? The more experienced player would look and be like XYZ. Maybe he points them to a guide, maybe he says something stupid like lol you fucking scrub get good, but then you report him and it's no different than today.
    I've never met a player that was rude when I asked what I did wrong and why he performed so much better. Quite the contrary, lots of people were willing to help.
    This is the way I learned how to get good in WoW. Ask experienced folks, take hints thrown my way seriously and read up in forums.

    Many people don't care though. They want to look at pretty gfx, mash a few buttons and get their reward centers triggered w/o putting in effort. You will never convert these.

  16. #45396
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    I can't speak for others but I for one wouldn't want to be kicked out of a dungeon after a 20 minute queue without anyone saying a word to me. If I'm underperforming, feel free to tell me (although, y'know, in a constructive way, not just "you suck"), but don't kick me without a word. Not that this has happened to me, just sayin'

    (I also don't know if I'm underperforming or not because the last time I tried ACT it was a clunky annoyance to set up and I deleted it)
    Last edited by Cattleya; 2019-06-06 at 04:03 PM.

  17. #45397
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattleya View Post
    (I also don't know if I'm underperforming or not because the last time I tried ACT it was a clunky annoyance to set up and I deleted it)
    Idk when you tried it last, but if you try to install a bunch of things it can be a bit of a pain. Lately I just install ACT itself, and then Cactbot (which is just a plugin to hibiyasleep's version of overlayplugin, links are easy to follow on cactbots website). Easy to install DPS meter and DBM like program all in one? Yes please.

  18. #45398
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Frustration is one of the reasons why we strive to be better. Not just in video games.
    When playing a musical instrument and my playing sucks/is not presentable to others, that feeling of inadequacy (as long as it isn't overwhelming to the point that you give up ofc) spurs you to practice more, get better and ultimately "win" by presenting a more refined piece.

    Mistakes are the best teachers available, covering them up so the feels do not get ruffled is the worst thing one can do. I get that many people love pretending and love lying to themselves though. See it plenty in all kinds of real life situations, not many people actually like to self reflect.
    This is a mentality I can get behind.

    I just wonder how many people let the meters affect them like the bolded. I'd rather folks be mediocre and having fun in a video game, than them having magnificent performance and not really enjoying the "game" part of it.

    I'm well aware it's possible to do both, it just feels like some people take the meters WAY too seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    I might need to use this. This words just so passive aggressively that it fits in with the the typical anti-ACT person frothing at the mouth over reporting people who use ACT. I love it.
    People using ACT shouldn't be reported, people using it as a tool to decide who to blind kick out of a party should be. That's not what it's for. It's to help people improve. If the person with low performance refuses to improve or do better THEN kick them. But don't just look at their numbers and blind kick them like a couple others are advocating.

    Speaking strictly of dungeon content, there really isn't. AOE is a one button rotation for most jobs. The floor is so astronomically low that all you have to do is push AOE buttons and an occasional oGCD and you can do the near maximum amount of damage your job can for your current gear level.

    In the example provided (and one I have from last night), 2K DPS is not acceptable in a dungeon run, it wasn't acceptable at i300, and it sure as hell isn't acceptable at i390+. I had a BRD in Ghimlyt Dark who did literally 2.2k DPS overall. He was i395 ish (400 tomestone and a crafted 390 weapon).
    That's a pretty egregious example, agreed. I'm more speaking of someone who's not doing things optimally, but still doing things, and just getting lowER numbers because of it. Not someone who's putting forth no effort whatsoever.

    The problem with this - IMO is that even my fabled shield lob only tank made it to level 50+ with only a singular instance of someone calling him out (me). That means he did 10+ dungeons with someone only calling him out ONE TIME. It also means he had no troubles completing said dungeons. We have to draw a line as a community that is reasonable and unfortunately the devs have done a terrible fucking job setting the floor so astronomically low that stuff like this happens.
    I agree with you. He should have been called out sooner. You didn't need ACT to know that he was terrible though.

    The problem is, tanks and healers are able to get away with loads more shit than DPS because of how queuing works. If a DPS sucks in a dungeon and won't do better, they'll get kicked without a second thought because they're easily replaced. Tanks and healers are usually not so easily/quickly replaced because once they get kicked it could take just as long, if not longer, to wait for a new one than it would be to just suck it up and finish the dungeon.

    Efficiency takes priority over pretty much everything else in most cases, unless the player is toxic as well as terrible, in which case they'll get booted for harassment or I'll just leave and try again.

    Who said ANYTHING about berating a player for being bad or inexperienced? Not a single person here wants to harass or berate a player. We want the ability for them to see how poorly they're playing and be able to point them to resources to help them improve. Not a SINGLE pro-parser person wants to harass another player, nor do we want punishment for harassment to go away.

    You are not allowed to give advice in the current environment. Sure you can, but not only does it fall on deaf ears (because there's no proof the advice is accurate or relevant), but players are empowered in the current environment to report people for anything their heart desires.
    There were at least two people in this thread advocating for blindly kicking a player because of bad performance. No advice, no pointing towards resources, just looking at their performance and then kicking them for "difference in playstyle." Which is exactly the kind of thing the devs are trying to prevent by being so heavy handed about parsers. Low performance on it's own should not be a bootable offense. Low performance coupled with laziness or an unwillingness to improve or do better should be.

    I understand the issue with feeling like you're walking on egg shells any time you feel like you want to speak up to help someone out. But you don't need ACT to know when someone's performance is terrible, REALLY terrible, like shield lob guy, ice mages or level 30+ people who haven't gotten their advanced job.

    It happens all the time to me, 99% of the time I don't say a word. Only in the truly bad cases do I say something. If you don't run ACT you simply don't have the tools or information to make the claim you're making. Ignorance is bliss as they say.
    You may not have numbers to back it up, but in obvious cases you don't need ACT to see bad performance. It takes more effort for sure, but if it's THAT bad you'll be watching them regardless. Like seeing mages not casting, seeing tanks only using one move or not doing their combos correctly, seeing DPS only using their number 1 move or not moving around for positionals, etc...Which IMO is less effort than looking at the parse and analyzing what it says.

    Having the numbers in cases like this is really just a liability IMO because it gives you ammo that you shouldn't be using and could be reported for bringing up in chat.

    Couldn't have said it better myself. There would be growing pains for sure, but as a whole the community would level up and get better and be more inclined to help people. Think about it for a second. If you cleared the dungeon, but saw the other DPS do more than triple your DPS. You might say, damn what the fuck did I do wrong? We have the same gear. Hey man, how'd you do so much damage? The more experienced player would look and be like XYZ. Maybe he points them to a guide, maybe he says something stupid like lol you fucking scrub get good, but then you report him and it's no different than today.

    That's a core issue this game is facing and it's one WoW has already. The community has gotten considerably better over the years as their skill levels improve. The difference is in FF14, only EX/Savage players are getting better and as they improve and the others stagnate friction continues to build and build because SE thinks its wiser to mix these playerbases whereas WoW feels it's better to segregate them.
    That's a fair assessment. I agree that having them out in the open for everyone to use would be better than what we have now, specifically for the reasons you've given. The rules around it need to change though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    People analyzing performance on dungeon runs that were obsolete the day they came out and getting angry about people's DPS are basically creating their own frustration.

    "You know, I know this DPS isn't performance up to par. I know that when I can't see ACT and the run goes smoothly with no wipes and finishes in a reasonable time, the experience is just telling my brain that everything is going okay. After nine years, you know what I realize? Ignorance is bliss."

    If you're doing savage raids, I get it. If you're watching ACT like a hawk in roulettes and pouring over it afterwards, you're just abusing yourself.
    I agree with this as well.

  19. #45399
    Scarab Lord TriHard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Oblivion View Post
    nope, i wont.

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    we never say anything because of how care bear the community is, we just kick the leeches and move on
    You definitely will, Naoki has made it pretty clear that if it's used against players then it becomes an issue the support team has to deal with.
    I hate leechers as much as anyone else but if I see anyone use parsers against players, then they're banned within a few days.

    Also for the guy who said support won't do anything, you're an idiot. I've gotten people banned for abusing it in the past and will continue to do so moving forward.
    So yeah, you will get banned. An IRL friend of mine even got a suspension for it 2 months ago.

  20. #45400
    I use ACT for two reasons: when I'm savage raiding and just figuring things out for myself and when a dungeon is going spectacularly slowly and I just want to sate my own curiosity about exactly how bad a particular player (or players) is. Even when I was doing more damage as a healer than one of the dps in a particular dungeon, I didn't use it to berate that player. I've always viewed ACT (and damage meters in other games) as a personal tool and whatever data it shows me isn't to be shared with other people unless they specifically ask for it.

    Sometimes I offer to help, sometimes I don't. I think one of the weirder things is that in my experience, people tend to readily accept unasked for help or advice for dealing with fight mechanics, but will tell you to go fuck yourself if you try to offer up suggestions for playing their class a bit better.

    But at the end of the day, if a dungeon run takes an extra 5 or 10 minutes because of one person playing like ass, it's still only an extra 5-10 minutes. Trial farming I tend to accept as doomed for failure 90% of the time so it generally doesn't even bother me there.

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