1. #46861
    Quote Originally Posted by RohanV View Post
    If you don't have free GCDs, then every single utility spell becomes a dps loss. In particular, I like Ret paladins being able to toss a Cleanse, a Blessing of Freedom, a heal or two, etc. To me, that's central to the class identity. Thus it's very important for Ret paladins to be non-GCD locked. Of course, it's possible to take this too far. See the design of the WoW Classic paladin, for example. Nothing but empty GCDs for you to spend utility on.

    Now, FFXIV can get around this to a degree by making utility be off-GCD.
    Contrary to popular belief I'm 100% ok with this and encourage it. I believe that utility should be powerful and that using it should be a DPS loss (albeit minor). That's what makes it a meaningful choice otherwise there's no opportunity cost. That's one reason I DO like Ret. But who am I kidding, I'd make the spec GCD locked an all utility oGCD if I had my way lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    If you are talking about the bulk of the community: they are completely incompetent in both games. There is a reason why I never set foot into a PuG raid in WoW or in FF.
    Speaking personally I think it comes down to comparing the high end pug not the whole pie. Just the specific subset of the pie. This has actually always been my point when arguing both games. In WoW, even with bad players I can at least count on decent, a solid floor of performance. I cannot say the same with FF14. It took me almost 10 hours to clear E2S last week in pugs because I let my (former) shit ass cabbage static talk me into waiting till after Thursday to pug. I had some of the most pathetic players I've ever seen group after group. People who not only couldn't do mechanics with any reasonable consistency, but just flat out didn't know how to do DPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    Is there any reason for this?

    I brought up DS to with regards to it's anticpation. You'll spend a lot of your time in combat, particularly with bosses, waiting for a swing so you can dodge and go on the offensive. With how fragile the player is it creates quite a tense experience even with very little in the way of actual mechanics. FF14 on the other hand has always handled anticipation very poorly in my opinion. You spend 2 whole minutes waiting and building up to Bahamut and when you finally get there, it's a very underwhelming pay off for all the hard work. The Scholar feels the same too, where the Fairy Gauge skills are a let down. Even a White Mage's Misery feels lackluster for the time it takes to ready, and Astrologians Divination isn't exactly the high point of the Job it really should be.
    Katchii nailed it on the head pretty much. I don't disagree on the anticipation comments and do agree that it's an enjoyable feature of the DS series, but just wanted to kinda point out that the combat isn't the highlight of the game for me (Sekiro on the other hand).

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I can't speak for @Wrecktangle but based on what I know, I'd bet it has to do with player agency and the decision making process. It's not your decision, you're not choosing to pause and make a decision on which ability to use or what you're going to do in a given situation, the game is forcing you to not do anything during that time period. Being GCD locked means you need to make a decision at every GCD on what ability to use, when and why.
    Bingo.

  2. #46862
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post

    I don't really know how to articulate it but here goes: WoW's class mechanics are mechanically deeper, requiring a deeper understanding of the class and it's underlying mechanics in order to really bring forth their potential, however once you HAVE that understanding, the actual execution feels boring because it boils down to hitting the correct button out of like 4 buttons. In FFXIV, the situation is the opposite. The class mechanics are pretty shallow and you don't need to have a deep understanding of the class mechanics to bring forth their maximum potential, but the sheer number of abilities you have to use to maximize your output requires you to pay attention to (in some capacity) what you're doing regardless of your skill level.
    This is true.

    People also talk about how the CPM in FFXIV is low, which is of course true - but at the same time, that doesn't mean you hit the keyboard less often than in WoW for example.

    In the end, I'm playing FFXIV not like this: (0s)1 - (2,5s) 2 - (5s) 3
    Everyone plays FFXIV like this: (0s)1 1 1 1 1 1 1 (2,5s) 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 (5s)3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
    and when you add all the oGCD it becomes like this:1 1 1 QQQQQ EEEEEE 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 RRRRRR 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 YYYYYY 3 3 3 3 3 3 3

    When I play WoW, it looks like the exact same game, fewer buttons and/but less "chained" too .
    i.e.: 1 1 1 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 3 3 3 3 1 1 1 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3

    Sure thing, I have "more time" to do the 1 - 2 - 3 than I do in WoW... at the same time however, I have less time to do the oGCDs than I do in WoW and I have to crawl over my whole keyboard to do them all, in a specific order too to not mess up some weird cooldown timings.
    A Dragoon using Geirskogul before or after Mirage Dive when it should be the other way around due to it granting the first/second Eye and all that.

    That's why to me, FFXIV combat doesn't feel slow at all.
    Maybe I picked the exact opposites in classes (WoW = Hunter, FFXIV = Dragoon) but I feel super busy in FFXIV even though I have fewer CPM compared to my hunter in WoW.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2019-08-13 at 09:58 PM.

  3. #46863
    Maaaaan the crafting game is strange this expansion. I've had recipes taking me back to Southern Lanoscea for Grapes, to sea of clouds for Lemons, bottom of lakes in ala mhigo for salt. Honestly maybe half the ingredients or less for culinarian come from norvrandt. Which canonically i guess makes sense but its such a change to the usual mmo expansion garbage of "urrrr, this is space iron! yeah thats right, so this expansion mine this iron and forget the old pre expansion iron thats now magically redundant!".

    Boy is it a lot of legwork as miner and botanist. I've seen so many retainers in ARR zones farming and i forgot they did that.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  4. #46864
    In other news:



    I guess that's cool.

  5. #46865
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Yeah it's nice when that happens.
    @Danny: well the only thing that is weird about requiring non Norvrandt materials is that it would be rather stressful for our character to constantly go back and fourth between the worlds.

  6. #46866
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Speaking personally I think it comes down to comparing the high end pug not the whole pie. Just the specific subset of the pie. This has actually always been my point when arguing both games. In WoW, even with bad players I can at least count on decent, a solid floor of performance. I cannot say the same with FF14. It took me almost 10 hours to clear E2S last week in pugs because I let my (former) shit ass cabbage static talk me into waiting till after Thursday to pug. I had some of the most pathetic players I've ever seen group after group. People who not only couldn't do mechanics with any reasonable consistency, but just flat out didn't know how to do DPS
    sounds just like me lol. e2s just pointed out major flaws in my static and i ended up clearing with a pug. but even "farm parties" suck ass at e2s. people still can't look away from the eye. dps being shit at cycles and getting multiple debuffs. people think it will get easy with gear but i doubt it. too many people trying to raid that just suck at this game.

  7. #46867
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    Maaaaan the crafting game is strange this expansion. I've had recipes taking me back to Southern Lanoscea for Grapes, to sea of clouds for Lemons, bottom of lakes in ala mhigo for salt. Honestly maybe half the ingredients or less for culinarian come from norvrandt. Which canonically i guess makes sense but its such a change to the usual mmo expansion garbage of "urrrr, this is space iron! yeah thats right, so this expansion mine this iron and forget the old pre expansion iron thats now magically redundant!".

    Boy is it a lot of legwork as miner and botanist. I've seen so many retainers in ARR zones farming and i forgot they did that.
    Almost wonder if they are looking at other MMO's not just WoW that piss away their old content and pretend like it no longer exist. I have been wondering why I have seen higher level player in some of the 10-20 and 20-30 zones. I figured they were just leveling professions from scratch.

  8. #46868
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    Almost wonder if they are looking at other MMO's not just WoW that piss away their old content and pretend like it no longer exist. I have been wondering why I have seen higher level player in some of the 10-20 and 20-30 zones. I figured they were just leveling professions from scratch.
    Honestly i don't think its a bad thing. It was nice to have a reason to go through central thanalan again and listen to that music, maybe res a dead sprout that got thousand needle'd and hand out those coblyn minions i get when i don't need more gold.

    Doing it without the new alarm system however would have sucked. That is amazing. Just open up your log, select the item and hit square/right click and that ephemeral type node gives you its spawn times and an ingame alarm 3 minutes before it spawns you can do one or on repeat as long as you are logged in. Hitting a bunch of those to go between stuff all over the world and across each expansion has really kept miner and botanist more interesting compared to just farming collectibles at a single point in a single zone for scrip. Might be way less common when i cap all crafter jobs but its still a lotta hours of gameplay and farming mixing up where you are and what you are doing which in the longrun feels like a nice way to avoid burnout before the crafting beast tribe shows up.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  9. #46869
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Oh you can do that ingame now?
    I always used FFXIV clock for that.

    "Farming" collectibles at only one spot... ouch. That sounds inefficient.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    people think it will get easy with gear but i doubt it.
    EVERYTHING™ get easier with gear and more DEEEPS.
    Sure, the instagibs will still instagib but a dead DPS is not much of a problem if you can take the enrage timer out of the equation due to overgearing the crap out of any given encounter. That won't happen while the content is current though. At least not to a ridiculous degree.

  10. #46870
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    ...Just open up your log, select the item and hit square/right click and that ephemeral type node gives you its spawn times and an ingame alarm...
    This is the kind of bullet point information I'm spoiled to seeing for WoW here on MMO-C. I was still using a website. Christ I could have used this a few days back when I was grinding out CUL.

    I know it's laid out rather well in the Patch Notes, but I feel I have to dig for the patch notes through the launcher, then dig through the patch notes for relevant information to me.

  11. #46871
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    Just open up your log, select the item and hit square/right click and that ephemeral type node gives you its spawn times and an ingame alarm 3 minutes before it spawns you can do one or on repeat as long as you are logged in.
    I don't say that very often, but I love you! xD
    Always used an external website.

  12. #46872
    Well i'm down to one Crystalline Mean questline left for Leatherworker. I wonder if this unlocks anything at the end like all the role quests. The CUL/ALC one was interesting and kind of makes me think people will miss Amaro's when Shadowbringers is over. FFXIV's Chocobo's are kind of lacking in terms of being more than mounts with nothing like Fat Chocobo, Choco hot and cold or Chocobo Gardens and the like from other games so the Amaro as their Norvrandt counterparts were a nice change of pace and its a shame they might be left behind.

    Unless you get every class to 80 for the Amaro mount i guess
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  13. #46873
    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    sounds just like me lol. e2s just pointed out major flaws in my static and i ended up clearing with a pug. but even "farm parties" suck ass at e2s. people still can't look away from the eye. dps being shit at cycles and getting multiple debuffs. people think it will get easy with gear but i doubt it. too many people trying to raid that just suck at this game.
    Yep. Exactly the same. It's crazy I now have to join parties and look at peoples logs more than ever and be like this dude is a trap remove him. Normally I'd just go with it and then move on to a new group, but tank slots are fucking hard to come by in ShB so I am way more choosy and protective of my time than I used to be.

    Some of my "weekly 2 chest" groups were worse than fresh fucking learning parties. Like come on. I also don't think gear will make a difference. These people aren't hitting 8% enrage, they're hitting 18% (in reclears mind you). Gear isn't gonna make that up. Sure a tier or two down the road, but right now and next patch? No chance IMO.

    On a plus side - I cleared Levi. Gonna start Titan learning tomorrow I think. I managed to find a group of people doing E2S and they were pretty good (about 5 of them) and they invited me to E3S reclear. I said I have only been to enrage, so if they're ok with that and they were. We straight carried a SMN who (had cleared already mind you) failed nearly every mechanic possible every single pull. Tsunami one pull, Maelstrom the next, Current, Tidal Wave, Smokers, you name it he died to it. Solid 9th percentile DPS too, almost missed the DPS check because of him.

  14. #46874
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    Well i'm down to one Crystalline Mean questline left for Leatherworker. I wonder if this unlocks anything at the end like all the role quests.
    No unlocks in terms of game systems but there is a nice little conclusion quest.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    On a plus side - I cleared Levi.
    Grats!
    Yeah 18% will not be compensated within this tier.

  15. #46875
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Yep. Exactly the same. It's crazy I now have to join parties and look at peoples logs more than ever and be like this dude is a trap remove him. Normally I'd just go with it and then move on to a new group, but tank slots are fucking hard to come by in ShB so I am way more choosy and protective of my time than I used to be.

    Some of my "weekly 2 chest" groups were worse than fresh fucking learning parties. Like come on. I also don't think gear will make a difference. These people aren't hitting 8% enrage, they're hitting 18% (in reclears mind you). Gear isn't gonna make that up. Sure a tier or two down the road, but right now and next patch? No chance IMO.

    On a plus side - I cleared Levi. Gonna start Titan learning tomorrow I think. I managed to find a group of people doing E2S and they were pretty good (about 5 of them) and they invited me to E3S reclear. I said I have only been to enrage, so if they're ok with that and they were. We straight carried a SMN who (had cleared already mind you) failed nearly every mechanic possible every single pull. Tsunami one pull, Maelstrom the next, Current, Tidal Wave, Smokers, you name it he died to it. Solid 9th percentile DPS too, almost missed the DPS check because of him.
    tbh e2s was so annoying i'm kind of over the tier already. not really interested in pugging this stuff weekly lol. ever since creator i lose interest in doing savage quicker and quicker.

  16. #46876
    Well.... I have to play FFXIV through (a paid per traffic) VPN now.
    Unplayable otherwise.

    I guess the 50cent to 1€ per month is not a whole lot, but 20 second long lags won't get you anywhere when you are trying to raid with your friends.

    F-u Telekom, seriously.

  17. #46877
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Such an amazing Cover of an already great song from this Expansion.

  18. #46878
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Grats!
    Yeah 18% will not be compensated within this tier.
    Thanks! Titan is pretty intense. Still learning P1. I haven't put much time in yet, hoping to this weekend.

    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    tbh e2s was so annoying i'm kind of over the tier already. not really interested in pugging this stuff weekly lol. ever since creator i lose interest in doing savage quicker and quicker.
    Preach man.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Well.... I have to play FFXIV through (a paid per traffic) VPN now.
    Unplayable otherwise.

    I guess the 50cent to 1€ per month is not a whole lot, but 20 second long lags won't get you anywhere when you are trying to raid with your friends.

    F-u Telekom, seriously.
    welcome to my nightmare. I've been using Mudfish ever since the move. I've played countless online games and somehow FF14 is by and far the most inconsistent and worse latency i've ever experienced in the US. Hell I get the same ping on an AUS WoW server as I do casually in FF14's.

    Blah blah it's on my end, yeah sorry don't buy that.

  19. #46879
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Costa del Sol jumping puzzle is eroding my soul

    Haha last stretch you're jumping on little jenga pegs haha very funny

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - Druid / Steam / MyAnimeList / IMDB - - - - - - - - - - - -

  20. #46880
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Got up 80% or so before I gave up.
    Jumping itself isn't the problem, having 99 guys jump in front of you gets ... annoying after a while.

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