1. #47601
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Anybody still alive here?
    Got to Raktika on my alt before I stopped. Currently just logging in to do Gold Saucer stuff and leveling up my Red Mage. Hoping to get the mage role questline done and then do the final role quest before 5.2 hits.

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  2. #47602
    Ive been lvling a new alt with friends lately, been having a fun time and re experiencing the arr story again and noticing a lot of things i missed before.

  3. #47603
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    any MMO is designed to be played with friends/guidlies otherwise things get boring way too fast as there is only so much you can do on your own, playing with other people is what keeps many interesting in playing games.
    For a game that's designed to be played with friends it does a terrible job of putting you in a situation where you can actually make friends.

    Throughout all my time playing from Heavensward until Shadowbringers, I've never spoken to another player in game outside of the occasional hello at the start of a dungeon. Never had the need to whisper anyone. Never been in a situation where others have had to whisper me. Even tactics talk before a dungeon run is a rarity.

    All I ever see in chat are ASCII pictures of Moogles, Cats and idiots showing off their "LIMITO BREAKU!!" macros. I'm not even sure why I still have it on anymore.

    I've always considered the other players in FF14 to be more of a handicap than anything else. Most of the time I queue up for group content it feels like half the group is deadweight. Which is fine - The game encourages you to think of them as nothing more than expendable idiots, to be discarded when you're done with them 10 minutes from now.

    Outside of group content I've got no need to interact with other players in any capacity. So I don't bother. Judging by the way no one as ever tried to start a conversation with me, neither does anybody else.

    Quite frankly, it seems more like friends are a timid suggestion more than a hard and fast requirement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Yup, MMOs pretty much suck as a single player game.
    It depends what you want to get out of them. You're probably not going to beat the latest content solo, but if you just want a low effort way to relax while still feeling like you're working towards a larger goal then they're great.

    You get to go at your own pace and do your own thing. Single player games tend to fall flat here because they're largely one-and-done affairs these days.

  4. #47604
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    For a game that's designed to be played with friends it does a terrible job of putting you in a situation where you can actually make friends.

    Throughout all my time playing from Heavensward until Shadowbringers, I've never spoken to another player in game outside of the occasional hello at the start of a dungeon. Never had the need to whisper anyone. Never been in a situation where others have had to whisper me. Even tactics talk before a dungeon run is a rarity.

    All I ever see in chat are ASCII pictures of Moogles, Cats and idiots showing off their "LIMITO BREAKU!!" macros. I'm not even sure why I still have it on anymore.

    I've always considered the other players in FF14 to be more of a handicap than anything else. Most of the time I queue up for group content it feels like half the group is deadweight. Which is fine - The game encourages you to think of them as nothing more than expendable idiots, to be discarded when you're done with them 10 minutes from now.

    Outside of group content I've got no need to interact with other players in any capacity. So I don't bother. Judging by the way no one as ever tried to start a conversation with me, neither does anybody else.
    While working on my Ninja ARR relic, I queued for Amdapor Keep through Duty Finder. Two other people in the group were pretty talkative, and I chatted with them. After the dungeon run, they invited me to their FC. Whenever someone logs on, everybody greets the person who logged on. People inviting others to groups all of the time, including weekly treasure chest runs. A couple weeks later, they began assembling a group to raid Eden Savage, and I joined in.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    For a game that's designed to be played with friends it does a terrible job of putting you in a situation where you can actually make friends.

    ...

    Quite frankly, it seems more like friends are a timid suggestion more than a hard and fast requirement.
    That's pretty much the post-WoW MMO design philosophy. The baseline player is the casual who never groups up with other players, but the mere existence of other players is reassuring, and the player always feels like they have the choice to eventually branch out and group up with other players.

    Personally, I played WoW without having ever joined a guild. Sure, I had people on my friends list who I grouped up with to do battlegrounds, arenas, or raids, but I mostly played WoW by myself. In addition to having the option of grouping up with other players whenever I wanted, WoW offered a vast array of content I could do in a single game. One day, I could decide to start trying to get into raiding and even do some heroic. Another day, I could try doing rated battlegrounds and arenas. Another day, I could just decide to consume the lore and story and work on questlines. Another day, I could try to farm items for a transmog. Another day, I could go achievement hunting. The game was also being continually developed: it wasn't like an RPG series where the characters and setting change and all of your progress is reset every time a new game came out. I also loved the Warcraft universe.



    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    You get to go at your own pace and do your own thing. Single player games tend to fall flat here because they're largely one-and-done affairs these days.
    ^^^^

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  5. #47605
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Anybody still alive here?

    Apart from me doing the pixie quests to level secondary classes, my cat is having a really nice vacation.
    I'm here! Just lurking until an interesting discussion pops up that interests me. I do not have an active sub atm, games got nothing going on right now. I'm also kinda burned out on MMO's. Despite new WoW raid content, I haven't resubbed either. Vacation is nice, but I'm super bored. In ONE hell of a game hole right now. Replayed Bloodborne and DS3 and now I'm bored again.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    I would like to say yes. The honest answer is no.

    I'm at a place now where I've got little left to really log in for. Shadowbringers has taken too many steps in the wrong directions for me to enjoy it. So I unsubbed, and quite frankly I can't see myself ever coming back.
    Shadowbringers was a great FF14 expansion, but it's still just the same old, same old. This is the first time in years I haven't finished a Savage raid tier that I actively played in. I was literally bored by time I got to Titan. While I loved Automata, the aesthetics don't do anything for me so I have no desire to run the 24 mans like I did the Tactics series, and any other content in the game is superfluous IMO.

  6. #47606
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Shadowbringers was a great FF14 expansion, but it's still just the same old, same old. This is the first time in years I haven't finished a Savage raid tier that I actively played in. I was literally bored by time I got to Titan. While I loved Automata, the aesthetics don't do anything for me so I have no desire to run the 24 mans like I did the Tactics series, and any other content in the game is superfluous IMO.
    Aside from the Savage part (because I don't partake in the high end content) pretty much this.

    The story in Shadowbringers, and the presentation of it, were phenomenal but the rest of the content was the same old, same old stuff. I'm looking forward to the patch for the new story and stuff, but that's about it.

    I'd be playing New Game + if it gave xp as a way to level alts, but with absolutely zero rewards, there's no incentive for me to do that over other stuff.

    I'd tried Blue Mage a bit, got it to level 60 and got all the overworld spells and finished the job quests but it's still just too gimmicky. Although a full group of all Blue Mages on farming runs is pretty awesome, but it loses it's flare pretty fast IMO. BLU really is ridiculously OP.

  7. #47607
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    While working on my Ninja ARR relic, I queued for Amdapor Keep through Duty Finder. Two other people in the group were pretty talkative, and I chatted with them. After the dungeon run, they invited me to their FC. Whenever someone logs on, everybody greets the person who logged on. People inviting others to groups all of the time, including weekly treasure chest runs. A couple weeks later, they began assembling a group to raid Eden Savage, and I joined in.
    I won't deny that such things happen - Afterall, it's how I ended up growing my guild in WoW back when I played. However almost all of the dungeons I've done in FF14 have been in almost complete silence. Usually not even a "hello" when we get started and people leave at the end without saying a word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    That's pretty much the post-WoW MMO design philosophy. The baseline player is the casual who never groups up with other players, but the mere existence of other players is reassuring, and the player always feels like they have the choice to eventually branch out and group up with other players.
    I'm glad you linked the video - It's one I like to bring up myself whenever people complain about solo players in MMOs. Far too often there's the expectation that because you're in a world where there are thousands of other players that you should be interacting with them all. I've always considered that argument to be baseless, everyones situation is different.

    I do disagree that being completely outside of a social circle is a broken game state though. I've never had a social circle at any point playing FF14 and that's never felt like a broken game to me. My in game goals have almost never required the input of other players.

    I'm much more talkative in games like LoL, Rocket League or even Street Fighter than I am in FF14. Those are games that put me in situations where I need to interact with other players. Usually because our goals are either identical or adverserial. Either way, other players are having a direct impact on my play experience in a way that MMO's with all their countless thousands of players never really seem to manage.

    That may sound very strange to some, but everyone who queued for my LoL games has done so for the same reason - To win. Those other people I can see in Limsa, or Orgrimmar or Lion's Arch can all have massively different in game goals they want to achive. It doesn't really give you a lot of reasons to get to know people outside of those who share similar interests.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Shadowbringers was a great FF14 expansion, but it's still just the same old, same old.
    I think it's more of the same old that's bothered me really. Without belabouring a point, I've repeatedly criticised many parts of FF14's design. Those problems have never really been addressed by the Dev team and having nothing new in Shadowbringers has really brought those issues to the forefront.

    I've had enough and wanted something new. It's why I've been giving MTG Arena a try. For someone whose never played MTG before, it's been a fun experience all round so far. I can't see myself ever taking it seriously, but it's a huge change of pace to what I would usually play.

  8. #47608
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    I think it's more of the same old that's bothered me really. Without belabouring a point, I've repeatedly criticised many parts of FF14's design. Those problems have never really been addressed by the Dev team and having nothing new in Shadowbringers has really brought those issues to the forefront.
    They're probably scared of changing what they believe is a "winning formula".

  9. #47609
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    I think it's more of the same old that's bothered me really. Without belabouring a point, I've repeatedly criticised many parts of FF14's design. Those problems have never really been addressed by the Dev team and having nothing new in Shadowbringers has really brought those issues to the forefront.

    I've had enough and wanted something new. It's why I've been giving MTG Arena a try. For someone whose never played MTG before, it's been a fun experience all round so far. I can't see myself ever taking it seriously, but it's a huge change of pace to what I would usually play.
    I think I've been playing this game consistently for just over a year so I'm not an experienced player but I keep seeing vets complain about this and it confuses me. What is the "same old"? To me so far it's been pretty entertaining and patches bring varying degrees of new content, some of them bring a new GATE, some changes to professions, some to jobs, usually a dungeon/trial, sometimes things like Hildibrand quests, they add new/different mechanics with alliance raids, etc. A diverse amount of content in their patches compared to other MMOs. So what is this "same old" vets are always complaining about? Are people expecting another ARR revamp of the game every patch or is it just another way of saying "I'm bored of MMOs and want to play something different"?
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  10. #47610
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    or is it just another way of saying "I'm bored of MMOs and want to play something different"?
    Basically, yeah.

    We all go through phases with games, and frankly most games don't actually change much. (And when they do, people complain about that, too)

    It's just that often times people feel the need to dig for a "reason" that they stopped liking something as much.

  11. #47611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    It's just that often times people feel the need to dig for a "reason" that they stopped liking something as much.
    Yup, I think that one devotes years to an MMO is the culprit for that. Many people don't want to face the fact that it has all been for "nothing" and then demand changes etc. so they can soldier on.

  12. #47612
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    Shadowbringers has taken too many steps in the wrong directions for me to enjoy it. So I unsubbed, and quite frankly I can't see myself ever coming back.
    Overdramatic much?

    I'm just using time until 5.2 to level odd jobs/Crafting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    For a game that's designed to be played with friends it does a terrible job of putting you in a situation where you can actually make friends.
    Psssst. Making Friends isn't the games job. It is yours.

  13. #47613
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    I think I've been playing this game consistently for just over a year so I'm not an experienced player but I keep seeing vets complain about this and it confuses me. What is the "same old"?
    I'll paint the picture. ARR came out and it was great, fresh, and new. It was actually pretty good too despite some real clunky stuff. Then HW came out, and it took everything good about ARR turned it up to 11 and it was excellent. At this point it's been 4 years.

    Then SB comes out, and it's arguably worse than HW, not to mention it's a literal carbon copy of HW to the point where people could predict entire patches worth of content. At this point some players were kind of tilting their eyebrows, not worried, but curious about the template. Stuff like Eureka divides the playerbase and creates some friction. At this point 6 years has gone by.

    Then ShB comes out and it's great. Takes HW up to 11, but the players who raised their eyebrows see another 2 years of literal identical content and are now officially disappointed. You could argue that this is the "people are bored of MMO's, but I don't think that's fair. For instance I'm only bored of FF14 because it isn't giving me any content I enjoy. The raid content is too similar to years past, and the supplementary systems haven't changed or been updated in any meaningful fashion. Then the dev team doubles down on what I consider to be poor decisions (Thinking Eureka was successful because a lot of people did it, when it was almost assuredly because the Relic was held hostage).

    FF14 is a great game, but IMHO I think it's only using 30% of it's genuine potential. This is of course an opinion, but that's how highly I think this game could be with some changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Basically, yeah.

    We all go through phases with games, and frankly most games don't actually change much. (And when they do, people complain about that, too)

    It's just that often times people feel the need to dig for a "reason" that they stopped liking something as much.
    People definitely do complain about change, and rightfully so sometimes. I haven't stopped liking FF14. I still love the game, but it just holds my attention less and less, to the point that the only 2 things I actually look forward to now are the MSQ and the new PLD abilities. I can just sub to new expacs to get that. I say this as a savage raider too, so keep that in mind.

    I just wish there was more to do. I don't need the game to rule my life, but I'd love a reason, ANY reason to log in and play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Yup, I think that one devotes years to an MMO is the culprit for that. Many people don't want to face the fact that it has all been for "nothing" and then demand changes etc. so they can soldier on.
    I don't think this is relevant TBH, at the very least definitely not to me. I know 99.46% of all gaming is strictly a hobby to pass time. I just want to have fun when I log in that's all, but I can't find any fun activities in this game right now barring raiding, and even that got old WAY too quick.

  14. #47614
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    I'll paint the picture. ARR came out and it was great, fresh, and new. It was actually pretty good too despite some real clunky stuff. Then HW came out, and it took everything good about ARR turned it up to 11 and it was excellent. At this point it's been 4 years.

    Then SB comes out, and it's arguably worse than HW, not to mention it's a literal carbon copy of HW to the point where people could predict entire patches worth of content. At this point some players were kind of tilting their eyebrows, not worried, but curious about the template. Stuff like Eureka divides the playerbase and creates some friction. At this point 6 years has gone by.

    Then ShB comes out and it's great. Takes HW up to 11, but the players who raised their eyebrows see another 2 years of literal identical content and are now officially disappointed. You could argue that this is the "people are bored of MMO's, but I don't think that's fair. For instance I'm only bored of FF14 because it isn't giving me any content I enjoy. The raid content is too similar to years past, and the supplementary systems haven't changed or been updated in any meaningful fashion. Then the dev team doubles down on what I consider to be poor decisions (Thinking Eureka was successful because a lot of people did it, when it was almost assuredly because the Relic was held hostage).

    FF14 is a great game, but IMHO I think it's only using 30% of it's genuine potential. This is of course an opinion, but that's how highly I think this game could be with some changes.
    Hm I think it may have a different opinion because I recently just played through the entire game thrice (since I wanted a character on each data center), so maybe I was able to notice the contrast between expansions better. None of them has felt identical. Each one iterates on what worked and then tries new things as the game progresses.

    HW story and setting was amazing and then SB's story is pretty bad.. but everything else about it was great. This will probably mean nothing to a veteran but gameplay segments being made more relevant to storytelling than previously was a great thing I noticed in SB. The most noticeable one to me was protecting the diplomats from Lakshmi's tempering. ARR and HW instanced quests were, that I remember for the most part, just go to a place and kill some mobs then go to another place. The Lakshmi encounter was like doing a trust dungeon boss before the system was even a thing. Another thing off the top of my head is the Omega bosses, specially Doomtrain, finally a fight that's not just a circule/square arena but did involve a bit of moving around. There's also Hell's Lid, an optional dungeon that opened a whole little storyline with a few trials that I haven't even finished yet, HW had plenty of optional dungeons but the trial count is larger in SB as far as I've been able to unlock with the fights being different, that free falling section on the white tiger fight was really fun and unique. And then there's the raids, seems the devs like to add new ideas for mechanics in Alliance raids and that has definitely made encounters in Ivalice feel much different than the Void Ark ones. If anything I wish they did reuse some mechanics sometimes because there are some fun fights in the old raids, but at least when a raid pops in roulette it feels unique (except CT). The only raid I haven't been interested in has been Copied Factory but I guess it's because I don't care about Nier so nothing about it felt particularly interesting, nor did I notice any new mechanics introduced in it.

    No patch content has felt identical. But I do agree people can pretty much predict when the relevant content will come out. Their release schedule is very clear and consistent, you know which patch Normal Raids are going to come out, which patch the Alliance raids will come out, when the beast tribes will be added, etc. I don't think that's a negative, but it is very predictable. And I can understand if the content added isn't to someone's liking. But identical? I really can't see that having gone through it all in succession.

    As for it's potential, I agree with that. I find myself wishing they did have another ARR remake of the game just to break the shackles that 1.0 and PS3 support were during 2.0's initial development. I just imagine what this game could be if it had got proper development time and resources.
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  15. #47615
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    What is the "same old"?
    To give you an example, the Job I tend to play most is the Summoner. In the latest expansion the Job recieved a slightly different version of the Bahamut summon in the form of Phoenix. The Phoenix version of Dreadwyrm trance is identical, just with another icon. The method you summon Phoenix is identical to how you summon Bahamut. The skills available when Phoenix is summoned are identical to Egi Assault. The Enkindle skill for Phoenix is identical to Ark Morn, the Enkindle summon for Bahamut.

    The Scholar, the other Arcanist job, got slightly modified versions of existing skills they've already had for years. Another pet summon that's functionally identical. Another AoE heal that's functionally identical. Another mandatory upgrade to your damage spells. The only ability that's remotely interesting for the Scholar that has been added in the past 2 expansions is Recitation - A cooldown that removes resource costs and forces an auto crit. Even that isn't exactly mindblowing.

    They have in all respects, quite litterally, just given me more of the same skills. Nothing new, nothing exciting or different. Just more of the same.

    In terms of content, they've added more story. More housing, more cosmetics etc. Nothing that stands out as being new or unique, just more of the same kind of content for the same kinds of player. The games reward structures are identical throughout each expansion. Their patch cycles and content releases are so predictable you can tell which patch is going to have new raids, new dungeons and new MSQ from here until eternity.

    Quests and FATES almost exclusively fall into being kill quests or fetch quests. I struggle to think of any content I've done that was anything other.

    The game found a comfortable groove to run in and has never even tried to pull itself out and experiment with something different. They just keep adding more and more of the same stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    They're probably scared of changing what they believe is a "winning formula".
    I think you're right. Their experience with 1.0 has made them highly risk averse and it shows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    Psssst. Making Friends isn't the games job. It is yours.
    Whenever I do group content I spend ~15 minutes in a dungeon with 3 completely silent expendable arseholes. Hardly a solid foundation to build enduring friendships from.

    Thats the only time I ever have to interact with other players in any capacity.

  16. #47616
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    To give you an example, the Job I tend to play most is the Summoner. In the latest expansion the Job recieved a slightly different version of the Bahamut summon in the form of Phoenix. The Phoenix version of Dreadwyrm trance is identical, just with another icon. The method you summon Phoenix is identical to how you summon Bahamut. The skills available when Phoenix is summoned are identical to Egi Assault. The Enkindle skill for Phoenix is identical to Ark Morn, the Enkindle summon for Bahamut.

    The Scholar, the other Arcanist job, got slightly modified versions of existing skills they've already had for years. Another pet summon that's functionally identical. Another AoE heal that's functionally identical. Another mandatory upgrade to your damage spells. The only ability that's remotely interesting for the Scholar that has been added in the past 2 expansions is Recitation - A cooldown that removes resource costs and forces an auto crit. Even that isn't exactly mindblowing.

    They have in all respects, quite litterally, just given me more of the same skills. Nothing new, nothing exciting or different. Just more of the same.

    In terms of content, they've added more story. More housing, more cosmetics etc. Nothing that stands out as being new or unique, just more of the same kind of content for the same kinds of player. The games reward structures are identical throughout each expansion. Their patch cycles and content releases are so predictable you can tell which patch is going to have new raids, new dungeons and new MSQ from here until eternity.

    Quests and FATES almost exclusively fall into being kill quests or fetch quests. I struggle to think of any content I've done that was anything other.

    The game found a comfortable groove to run in and has never even tried to pull itself out and experiment with something different. They just keep adding more and more of the same stuff.
    That's fair. An expansion is when you'd expect larger job changes to happen and from what I've heard ShB didn't do much of that compared to the other expacs. I was playing Sch before ShB dropped and what changes they did do were for the worse to me, nothing interesting about slapping the floor during aoe pulls when there's no healing to be done, and the rest didn't seem to change much. Then again I also keep hearing people say Drk plays entirely different now, Mch feels like a new job with all the changes, and Smn and Nin feel almost as new with the adjustments from the patches to make their playstyle better. I don't usually dps and never played Drk before ShB only after so can't comment how true that is. But thank you for the explanation in that regard.

    As for the rest yeah, the non raiding content is just fluff. Game is missing more things to do in the overworld. Finding FATEs that connect to another is one of the few cool things I noticed but after three expansions I can see it not having any novelty anymore for an older player. Hunts and Special FATEs would be cool but they are just static and not a new feature. This is a problem every MMO seems to have though and I don't know what could be done, but I guess its their job to find that out.

    Also you don't mention raiding so I guess that's not content you care about? It seems to be the main aspect of the game where they do try to experiment with new things but if it's not your thing then it doesn't really matter.
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  17. #47617
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    To give you an example, the Job I tend to play most is the Summoner. In the latest expansion the Job recieved a slightly different version of the Bahamut summon in the form of Phoenix. The Phoenix version of Dreadwyrm trance is identical, just with another icon. The method you summon Phoenix is identical to how you summon Bahamut. The skills available when Phoenix is summoned are identical to Egi Assault. The Enkindle skill for Phoenix is identical to Ark Morn, the Enkindle summon for Bahamut.

    The Scholar, the other Arcanist job, got slightly modified versions of existing skills they've already had for years. Another pet summon that's functionally identical. Another AoE heal that's functionally identical. Another mandatory upgrade to your damage spells. The only ability that's remotely interesting for the Scholar that has been added in the past 2 expansions is Recitation - A cooldown that removes resource costs and forces an auto crit. Even that isn't exactly mindblowing.

    They have in all respects, quite litterally, just given me more of the same skills. Nothing new, nothing exciting or different. Just more of the same.
    That's the Catch-22 for developers.

    As soon as they do make changes to a job, people flip out and act like the game kicked their dog. (Hell, I've heard people say that there were TOO MANY changes to jobs in ShB. Go figure.)

  18. #47618
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    That's the Catch-22 for developers.

    As soon as they do make changes to a job, people flip out and act like the game kicked their dog. (Hell, I've heard people say that there were TOO MANY changes to jobs in ShB. Go figure.)
    The formula works, and I'd rather they not change it. Look at wow, most of the changes they've made have just been awful. In FF I can still get BiS, I can still work towards something meaningful, it's not 100% RNG. There's so much I love about the fact that it DOESN'T change drastically every expansion.

    Is there some things they could fix? Sure, like server responsiveness and the like obviously.

  19. #47619
    Any motivation to get me through the slog that is 1-50? I'm new and heard it pays off in the end.

  20. #47620
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    Also you don't mention raiding so I guess that's not content you care about? It seems to be the main aspect of the game where they do try to experiment with new things but if it's not your thing then it doesn't really matter.
    Not anymore I don't. I did the whole hardcore raiding thing in WoW way back in TBC and WotLK. I'm no longer at a point in my life where I can dedicate the time and effort to raiding that it requires.

    I used to queue for the 24 man raid content on occasion, but as someone who didn't enjoy Nier the 24 mans in Shadowbringers aren't appealing or interesting for me anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    That's the Catch-22 for developers.

    As soon as they do make changes to a job, people flip out and act like the game kicked their dog. (Hell, I've heard people say that there were TOO MANY changes to jobs in ShB. Go figure.)
    Both too many and too little changes can be true. Machinist recieved almost a complete overhaul while others recieved nothing noteworthy. I only really play Summoner and Scholar, so I can't comment on what has and hasn't happened for other jobs.

    The core of my Job complaints is that nothing has felt like an improvement to my Job for the past couple of expansions. It gets to a point where I get bored of things staying the same. Those issues pale in comparison to all of the other areas I think the game has had for improvement over it's lifespan and has chosen not to take the opportunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    The formula works, and I'd rather they not change it. Look at wow, most of the changes they've made have just been awful. In FF I can still get BiS, I can still work towards something meaningful, it's not 100% RNG. There's so much I love about the fact that it DOESN'T change drastically every expansion.

    Is there some things they could fix? Sure, like server responsiveness and the like obviously.
    I on the other hand consider the Raiding gear system they currently use to be something of a disaster. Sure, there's far less RNG than WoW, but that doesn't mean that having to go through multiple item trades in order to get a single upgrade is in any way a good system. For example, trading in Phantasmagoria Tomestones for Mowens Token, then trading Mowens Tokens for a weapon.

    Or having to trade Book of Inundation for a Deepshadow Solvent which you can then trade for an upgrade, etc etc

    It's a big reason why raiding never had any appeal for me - I can't be bothered showing up to a raid with a flowchart for all the upgrades I can get and the path I need to take.

    It's symptomatic of the game as a whole though. Most, if not all, of the secondary systems have a lot of extra steps which aren't required. Like having to manually hand over quest items. Or having to use the bank/AH through a retainer. Or how about having to find a crafter/visit an NPC to insert materia. Or needing to swap your weapon, then equip the crystal before you can change jobs.

    I realise those are all minor things - But all those minor inconveniences add up over time.

    By far the biggest thing I think they could stand to fix though is the UI. It's both overdesigned and underfuntional. The job gauges for most jobs are the worst way to display information I've seen in a game made in the past decade. You don't have a choice to opt out of using them, they're displaying mandatory information.

    The lack of reasonable macro support is another huge issue for me. I've yet to come across any functional mouseover macros in my time playing, and for a game that wants you to cast abilities on your allies while also being able to see what mobs are doing, that's a massive drawback. Ones which should work in theory often misfire if you're using them on an oGCD and the lack of queuing for macros causes all kinds of strange issues. And the amount of errors you get... Ugh.

    Then there's a whole host of other smaller UI issues that bother me, like not being able to see your actual ping to the server,

    Aaaaanyway, I'm going to leave it there. Hopefully you're seeing my point, even though on a second reading this post sounds far more ranty than I had intended. The TLDR is my issues are less to do with the gameplay and more with the systems surrounding it that could be vastly improved.

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