1. #47921
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    If all worlds were rejoined, they'd regain their full power and could just re-create their civilization ... for real, instead of an echo.
    Is that how things work though... Creation magic is a great tool for manifesting thoughts and even feelings but we've never seen it used to do more than just create things. It is creation magic after all, not just all purpose magic. The ascians might use it to re-create their civilization as they remember it but does it mean it is really them or just perfect copies? I'm focusing on the soul of an individual when I ask that.

    We don't know how ascian souls work except that for some reason they are able to linger in the plane between the material and the aetherial sea until they can manifest in a material form again, unless their souls are contained in auracite and also destroyed. I wonder if what Zodiark did is irreversible. If when he consumed the sacrifices he fed on their souls and not just their material forms. It might be impossible to bring back the ascians who died to Zodiark though the ones who got shattered by the sundering might come back after the rejoining is complete.

    I think the guy you are talking to is right. The ascians might just be working under assumptions born from their tempering than any real logic. I guess only they would know.
    "I have the most loyal fanboys. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand by Thoradin's Wall and massacre my own people and I wouldn't lose any fanboys. It's like incredible." - Sylvanas Windrunner

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  2. #47922
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    I think the guy you are talking to is right. The ascians might just be working under assumptions born from their tempering than any real logic. I guess only they would know.
    The thing about tempering is that even they might not know! They could just be chasing a lie and there's no way to restore their people.

    It may be possible (likely, even) that all they're doing is being driven to revive Zodiark for it's own purposes.

  3. #47923
    So sidebar, was doing my weekly clear with pugs on e6s as I hate to do, but this time, it wasn't hate... Our healers, somehow kept everyone topped off while sustaining a combined 20k dps. Our healers. 99th and 95th percentile on damage respectively.

    We had Garuda to 50% before Ifrit came out. Conflag was 19% or something stupid.

    I only managed a 40th percentile because:
    1) I'm stupid low ilvl.
    2) The other tank got clipped like an idiot, so I had to use HG to save us from a wipe on the tankbuster rip uptime.
    3) I suck.

    Working on E7S Enrage right now. Honestly, one of the best designed tankbuster mechanics I've seen in a long time. It's a great step forward to being less scripted and more random and needing adaption on the fly. I actually have enjoyed this tier decently so far, despite pugs being incredibly painful.

    Also please - if the party says clear, or last phase progression it does NOT mean P1 or add learning phase in E7S people >.<

    PF parties out here be lying big time. I now have to actually look at logs to see how many times someone has killed a boss before taking them in, because trap carries keep sneaking into my parties and are either deliberately acting like they've never cleared, or they were hard carried. Shouldn't need to spend 2 hours worth of wipes re-progging a SCRIPTED fight we've already all progged and cleared.
    Last edited by Wrecktangle; 2020-03-26 at 04:08 PM.

  4. #47924
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    PF parties out here be lying big time. I now have to actually look at logs to see how many times someone has killed a boss before taking them in, because trap carries keep sneaking into my parties and are either deliberately acting like they've never cleared, or they were hard carried. Shouldn't need to spend 2 hours worth of wipes re-progging a SCRIPTED fight we've already all progged and cleared.
    Eh, it's like any other social approval process. People pad their resumes for the same reason.

    People expect the world so applicants steadily engage in an arms race to see who can present themselves as being the most awesome while still being believable.

    If anyone were truly honest, they'd never get into any group. Even in the first week, you're expected to give that air of experience somehow.

  5. #47925
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Eh, it's like any other social approval process. People pad their resumes for the same reason.

    People expect the world so applicants steadily engage in an arms race to see who can present themselves as being the most awesome while still being believable.

    If anyone were truly honest, they'd never get into any group. Even in the first week, you're expected to give that air of experience somehow.
    While true,

    I always present myself as the correct level of experience. A great example being E5S. As a tank there are 2 different responsibilities. MT and OT. I don't clear it until I know both roles well. I get people joining my party and he's like you need to do the duty action and the add, I don't know how. I'm like then go back to a fucking learning party. You only know half your responsibilities.

    I also regularly host learning parties. In these parties I expect you to know up to that point. I will gladly teach anything after or we'll learn it together, but I don't hesitate to replace people if they lied. I had to do it just the other day with our Ramuh party. I flat out told the one healer, "Zoe, with all due respect this was a chain lightning learning party and you have not indicated that you know the fight to that point. I have to replace you, best of luck!"

    They alt-f4'd and I felt bad because they were clearly upset, but in 5 pulls we didn't make it past Fury's 14 once, they died every single pull or caused a wipe every single pull. What they did was disrespectful to the others trying to learn.

  6. #47926
    RIP Zoe. Never forget.

  7. #47927
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    Is that how things work though... Creation magic is a great tool for manifesting thoughts and even feelings but we've never seen it used to do more than just create things. It is creation magic after all, not just all purpose magic. The ascians might use it to re-create their civilization as they remember it but does it mean it is really them or just perfect copies? I'm focusing on the soul of an individual when I ask that.

    We don't know how ascian souls work except that for some reason they are able to linger in the plane between the material and the aetherial sea until they can manifest in a material form again, unless their souls are contained in auracite and also destroyed. I wonder if what Zodiark did is irreversible. If when he consumed the sacrifices he fed on their souls and not just their material forms. It might be impossible to bring back the ascians who died to Zodiark though the ones who got shattered by the sundering might come back after the rejoining is complete.

    I think the guy you are talking to is right. The ascians might just be working under assumptions born from their tempering than any real logic. I guess only they would know.
    Technically they want to rejoin the worlds which doesn't turn it back into that world it just rejoins everything that was split. They then want to kill everyone on our world -which is what Black Rose was meant to do but that plan leaked early- and use that to summon a rejoined Zodiark to undo the deaths of every one from their world using us as the fuel rather than natural life as they originally planned. I just assumed At least a portion of our worlds population must be reincarnated Ancients like the WoL is so thats a reason why they need us all gone otherwise those people can't be remade by Zodiark
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  8. #47928
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    So sidebar, was doing my weekly clear with pugs on e6s as I hate to do, but this time, it wasn't hate... Our healers, somehow kept everyone topped off while sustaining a combined 20k dps. Our healers. 99th and 95th percentile on damage respectively.

    We had Garuda to 50% before Ifrit came out. Conflag was 19% or something stupid.

    I only managed a 40th percentile because:
    1) I'm stupid low ilvl.
    2) The other tank got clipped like an idiot, so I had to use HG to save us from a wipe on the tankbuster rip uptime.
    3) I suck.

    Working on E7S Enrage right now. Honestly, one of the best designed tankbuster mechanics I've seen in a long time. It's a great step forward to being less scripted and more random and needing adaption on the fly. I actually have enjoyed this tier decently so far, despite pugs being incredibly painful.

    Also please - if the party says clear, or last phase progression it does NOT mean P1 or add learning phase in E7S people >.<

    PF parties out here be lying big time. I now have to actually look at logs to see how many times someone has killed a boss before taking them in, because trap carries keep sneaking into my parties and are either deliberately acting like they've never cleared, or they were hard carried. Shouldn't need to spend 2 hours worth of wipes re-progging a SCRIPTED fight we've already all progged and cleared.
    I've only seen post add phase twice for e7, it is sooooo damn easy.

    e6 and e5 are way harder

    Shiva definitely deserves her Mini-Ultimate nickname tho.

  9. #47929
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    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    Technically they want to rejoin the worlds which doesn't turn it back into that world it just rejoins everything that was split. They then want to kill everyone on our world -which is what Black Rose was meant to do but that plan leaked early- and use that to summon a rejoined Zodiark to undo the deaths of every one from their world using us as the fuel rather than natural life as they originally planned. I just assumed At least a portion of our worlds population must be reincarnated Ancients like the WoL is so thats a reason why they need us all gone otherwise those people can't be remade by Zodiark
    I'm with you for most of it but I was under the impression that after rejoining all worlds the souls that are still alive right now who were sundered ascians would become complete beings again and that then they would sacrifice all the newborn life that bloomed after the sundering to awaken the rejoined Zodiark. I'm not saying you are wrong though, everything you said is possible given what we know of them and their plan, but I interpreted it differently. Man, ascians and their plans are so shady.

    As for Black Rose, I don't think that's what it was meant to do. There's still six worlds left to rejoin. Wouldn't killing everyone in the Source before that defeat the point? Who would they sacrifice then?
    "I have the most loyal fanboys. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand by Thoradin's Wall and massacre my own people and I wouldn't lose any fanboys. It's like incredible." - Sylvanas Windrunner

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  10. #47930
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    I'm with you for most of it but I was under the impression that after rejoining all worlds the souls that are still alive right now who were sundered ascians would become complete beings again and that then they would sacrifice all the newborn life that bloomed after the sundering to awaken the rejoined Zodiark. I'm not saying you are wrong though, everything you said is possible given what we know of them and their plan, but I interpreted it differently. Man, ascians and their plans are so shady.

    As for Black Rose, I don't think that's what it was meant to do. There's still six worlds left to rejoin. Wouldn't killing everyone in the Source before that defeat the point? Who would they sacrifice then?
    I could be wrong since Stormblood was a hot minute ago but i always got the impression Solus wanted it sat on as a nuke button when the aether was ready, Gaius found out and shut down the project -or the ascians simply came to the conclusion it was actually detrimental rather than beneficial and gently pushed Gais into finding out about it- and trying and failing to destroy all samples, we accidentally found samples questing in SB and the Emperor/Zenos were behind its production being restarted and it accidentally leaking lead to the bad end future thats been averted since it being leaked and norvrant rejoining caused aether in the world to strangulate which is kind of antithetical to the plan to resummon Zodiark. Which is probably why the ascians who are clearly still messing with Garlemalde via Zenos have done nothing to stop Gaius and Estinien.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  11. #47931
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    The hypocritical message of Shadowbringers
    Interesting argument. I think we treat "ceasing to exist" differently than "never existing". Probably because the first is a real thing, while the second is hypothetical.

    For example, I think if the plot had been about Emet-Selch time-travelling back to prevent the creation of Hydalyn (or possibly preventing the calamity entirely), we would not see his actions as morally wrong. Oh, we'd probably still oppose him, because we like the world as it is. But we would not be repulsed at his actions.

  12. #47932
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    The hypocritical message of Shadowbringers

    Spoilers for 5.0

    Spoiler: 


    In the story of Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers, the main antagonist, Emet-Selch, is one of the last survivors of your usual JRPG ancient precursor civilization. Due to a calamity, almost the entire previous ancient civilization was wiped out, and the world irreparably damaged. To undo the damage and create world in which life can prosper once again, most of the people of the ancient civilization sacrificed themselves to stop and undo the destruction wrought by the calamity. For obvious reasons, the antagonist, Emet-Selch, feels deep trauma from having lost his friends, his family, nearly his entire people, and wants to bring them back. In Shadowbringers, Emet-Selch is trying to resurrect his dead people by creating another calamity that will sacrifice the lives the current civilization, the humanity that arose in the wake of the calamity thanks to the sacrifice of the ancients. (Also, BTW, Emet-Selch has no proof that this plan will actually work: he's going to kill billions of people - and has been killing billions of people - on the HOPE that this will all work out in the end).

    Also, the game goes out of its way to point out that the ancient precursor civilization was "objectively" better than modern humanity. Ancient humanity was blessed with gifts and abilities modern humanity does not have, and the people of the ancient civilization were so selfless and goodhearted, it'd be ridiculous to imagine humanity today being like them. Emet-Selch to the protagonist: "Do you seriously expect half of your mankind to sacrifice themselves for the other? Ofcourse they would not!". Thus, Emet argues that the old mankind is more worthy of the sacrifices of the new mankind than the new mankind is worthy of the sacrifices of the old mankind.

    So, TL;DR: Emet-Selch has a tragic backstory, wants to resurrect his people. The method in which he would try to resurrect his people involves the arbitray mass murder of modern life (by sacrificing them to bring back the old). Also, by his standards, the old mankind is "objectively" better than the new mankind, and thus we should erase modern life to bring back the old.


    In the same story, we have a heroic character, G'raha Tia, born as apart of modern day humanity. Earlier in FFXIV, G'raha Tia kinda sacrificed himself and went into stasis to preserve mankind from other existential threats I won't get into here. G'raha Tia wakes up in the future, several hundreds years after the story of Shadowbringers takes place. In the future, he finds out that Emet-Selch succeeded in his plan in Shadowbringers, and killed off a huge swath of the modern day humanity. Pretty much every character we met in FFXIV died in this calamity, including the protagonists. In the wake of this new calamity, another form of "humanity" arose. "the rule of law gave way to the rule of might, creating a world of ceaseless war". So basically, the FFXIV world went from something we IRL would consider to be "normal" to what we typically envision as post-nuclear apoclaypse anarchic wasteland. The new state of the world, the "new mankind", is objectively worse than what had come before.

    Horrified by this new world, G'raha Tia sets out to try to bring back the old mankind, the world - the mankind - of the current FFXIV story. G'raha Tia travels back in time, back to the current FFXIV story, to change the timeline by stopping Emet-Selch from sacrificing the current humanity. If G'raha Tia suceeds, the so called "bad future" will be undone, and the current humanity will continue on as usual. (BTW: when G'raha Tia began planning to go back in time, went back in time, and began trying to change the timeline, he had no proof that this plan would actually work at all. He even half suspected that he'd create a time paradox and accomplish nothing. He went through a herculean amount of effort on the HOPE that this would all work out in the end).

    So, TL;DR: G'raha Tia has a tragic backstory, wants to resurrect his people. The method in which he would try to resurrect his people involves the arbitray mass murder of modern life (by changing the timeline so that the people of the Age of Might would never be born, effectively killing them). Also, by his standards, the old mankind is "objectively" better than the new mankind, and thus we should erase modern life to bring back the old.

    Wait a minute... I smell something fishy here. Emet-Selch and G'raha Tia have the exact same backstory! They both survived an apoclaypse in which their humanity perished, witnessed a new, horrifyingly "inferior" successor mankind arise, and then set out to erase the new mankind to bring back the prior mankind. Why then, is Emet-Selch depicted as the villain, while G'raha Tia is depicted as the hero? If G'raha Tia is to be praised for his actions - trying to create an objectively better world - then shouldn't Emet-Selch be as well? Or, if Emet-Selch is supposed to be evil for trying to wipe people out to bring back the dead, then shouldn't G'raha Tia be depicted as evil for trying to do the same?

    Ofcourse, the writers don't seem interested in dealing with this issue. At the end of Shadowbringers, the heroes kill Emet-Selch, and the current mankind is saved... except G'raha Tia is still around, so it seems no time paradox has occured. Maybe... the old timeline - the humanity of the Age of Might - is still alive? Keyword: Maybe. Remember, G'raha Tia had absolutely no idea this would work out, and had every reason to believe that either 1. the timeline wouldn't have been changed at all or 2. he succeeded changing history, preventing the Age of Might from happening and erasing all of those people in it (except him in the new future... time travel logic doesn't hold up so just go with G'raha Tia being the exception). Perhaps the writers expected us to sympathize with G'raha Tia over Emet-Selch because the mankind G'raha Tia intends to wipe an entire world out for is OUR MANKIND, the people we know from the current FFXIV story? Ah, so it's okay for us to wipe out entire civilizations as long as it's not the protagonist's civilization? That... makes us no better than Emet-Selch.

    Oh don't get me wrong. Shadowbringers is a heartbreaking, yet inspirational story. However, the more I've thought about it, the more I go - EXCUSE ME?!?!? Though, I gotta give the writer's props: at least their contradictory message isn't anywhere near as overt as that of Ao no Kiseki's (oh boy... spoilers for that game, obviously)
    Except there is no future for the new life sprung from the timeline in which emet selch succeeded. That doomed timeline is assured to see the Ascians rejoin all elements to the source, thus eliminating any and all. They were doomed regardless as for whether or not Gratia succeeded.

  13. #47933
    Pandaren Monk The Casualty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nasuuna View Post
    I've only seen post add phase twice for e7, it is sooooo damn easy.

    e6 and e5 are way harder

    Shiva definitely deserves her Mini-Ultimate nickname tho.
    Agreed about E7. Its all about understanding the color/portals, and it took me the first week to really understand it. The latter half of the fight with the black/white + portals seems ultra complicated until you realize that based on the color of the North-most portal on the West side of the arena dictates whether you are alternating portals each time, or staying in your same spot.

    Shiva sorta reminds me of God Kefka as far as complexity of mechanics. Our major hang up was understanding and actually executing the bowtie strategy of the first Light's Rampant. Shiva has been a much harder fight than Titan, which is great - the only thing I'm not a huge fan of is the massive amounts of downtime in the middle during the phase transition after adds.
    Last edited by The Casualty; 2020-03-28 at 03:30 PM.

  14. #47934
    Quote Originally Posted by The Casualty View Post
    Agreed about E7. Its all about understanding the color/portals, and it took me the first week to really understand it. The latter half of the fight with the black/white + portals seems ultra complicated until you realize that based on the color of the North-most portal on the West side of the arena dictates whether you are alternating portals each time, or staying in your same spot.

    Shiva sorta reminds me of God Kefka as far as complexity of mechanics. Our major hang up was understanding and actually executing the bowtie strategy of the first Light's Rampant. Shiva has been a much harder fight than Titan, which is great - the only thing I'm not a huge fan of is the massive amounts of downtime in the middle during the phase transition after adds.
    As a white mage, let me get my free lillies lel

    super close to icelit dragonsong

  15. #47935
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Question for the more veteran players, is there plenty of group based team content or is all the end game focussed around raids?

    I used to play a dragoon, what's the state of that class nowadays? If my interest was to mostly look for team gameplay what class would you recommend for me? I can play all roles of the trinity fairly well.

    Any answers you could give me would be appreciated

    edit: I also don't own any expansion, can i just buy the complete edition and use that for my existing account?
    Last edited by Acidbaron; 2020-03-30 at 07:23 PM.

  16. #47936
    Decided to try the game, never had a more infuriating time trying to actually play the game than this game...

    Purchased it on steam several years ago but never played it after that, so trying to reactivate my account was an utter nightmare, first the launcher on steam failed to launch it (got around it by force running the .exe in the install directory, when i got on the launcher it was incredibly laggy (i have a 144hz monitor, the launcher felt like it was 30fps)

    logging in i had several option for a square enix account or a final fantasy account or a steam account or a facebook account (all which are apparently linked already) trying to get my password reset for any of them just kept me going around in circles... after like an hour of that managed to log in (god knows with which account) so it says i don't have a license for the game i purchased years ago so guessed this just meant subscription it directed me to shady ass website (mogsite) which couldn't have made it more confusing to just purchase gametime.

    Eventually purchased a service (gametime?) for 30 days, tried logging back in as i thought this would activate my account. Just directs me to mog site again, back to the circle of guessing which account i can actually log in with seen as i purchased the game/ service through steam i thought it would use my steam username/email but nope still the same. Nwo it says i'm locked out for several minutes.

    All around utter nightmare, bad experience and first impression of the game.

    Edit- k for some reason it didn't like me running it directly from the launcher because it classifies it as a different platform than through steam despite both being the same launcher (like wtf) managed to google a workaround by creating a shortcut and adding issteam to the end...loading up and logged it it acknowledge my license... to find i had a 6gb update, joy...i thought the entire point of steam was to keep games up to date in one unified area.
    Last edited by Frozenbeef; 2020-03-30 at 07:39 PM.

  17. #47937
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    Question for the more veteran players, is there plenty of group based team content or is all the end game focussed around raids?
    Aside from dungeon every patch that is even easier than current heroics in WoW, there are only raids.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    I used to play a dragoon, what's the state of that class nowadays?
    Insanely boring due to absolutely no variety in gameplay. Or was the question about DPS? All classes are relatively close.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    If my interest was to mostly look for team gameplay what class would you recommend for me? I can play all roles of the trinity fairly well.
    Any class should be fine in terms of output, just play something that doesn't bore you to death. I wish found one, but maybe you're luckier.
    Last edited by Rogalicus; 2020-03-31 at 02:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  18. #47938
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    Question for the more veteran players, is there plenty of group based team content or is all the end game focussed around raids?
    Except from 4 savage bosses and 2 extreme primals (a competent group downs the latter within one raid evening) every 6 months, there is no "team content" to speak of.
    It's mostly a solo experience.

  19. #47939
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    Aside from dungeon every patch that is even easier than current heroics in WoW, there are only raids.

    Insanely boring due to absolutely no variety in gameplay. Or was the question about DPS? All classes are relatively close.

    Any class should be fine in terms of output, just play something that doesn't bore you to death. I wish found one, but maybe you're luckier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Except from 4 savage bosses and 2 extreme primals (a competent group downs the latter within one raid evening) every 6 months, there is no "team content" to speak of.
    It's mostly a solo experience.
    Ah too bad, was looking for something that offered enough teamplay content without getting stuck into a daily schedule to raid.

    Bit of both on the dragoon question, but as i never got into heavensward i got more choice now. Good to know there's balance but if there isn't that much challenging content i guess balance means a whole lot less.

  20. #47940
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    Question for the more veteran players, is there plenty of group based team content or is all the end game focussed around raids?

    I used to play a dragoon, what's the state of that class nowadays? If my interest was to mostly look for team gameplay what class would you recommend for me? I can play all roles of the trinity fairly well.

    Any answers you could give me would be appreciated

    edit: I also don't own any expansion, can i just buy the complete edition and use that for my existing account?
    If I had to choose 2 melee, Dragoon would always be my first choice

    2nd would probably end up being a rdm/sum instead of a melee lel

    As for end game group content, theres lots of glamour runs, mount farm groups, fate groups, hunts, maps, ect. that you can just join.

    Pug life for savage is extremely viable as well, just put in your research to not be a floor tank dragoon.
    Last edited by Nasuuna; 2020-03-31 at 08:06 AM.

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