1. #48361
    Where do YOU level?
    If it's your second job and not Squadron, instances or PotD, it's not the fastest (in all of them, BLM is stupidly strong, if you ever ran PotD with 2 BLMs as a melee, you would've noticed)
    If it's your first job and you are doing MSQ. You *never* pull more than 1 mob, because MSQ quests XP is the fastest way to level and MSQ quests aren't designed like that.

    "lmfao"

    Granyala gets it.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2020-05-25 at 09:48 PM.

  2. #48362
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    19,025
    Quote Originally Posted by The Oblivion View Post
    there is nothing i can do to help you LMFAO
    Likewise.
    You go on ahead, playing the game wrong and waaah waah'ing on the forums, while the rest of us uses efficient means to level and get out of the low level drag ASAP.

  3. #48363
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    And we are discussing outliers anyway and not a "general problem
    We're not "discussing" anything. You're busy asserting that you're right and I've walked away. There's no point me putting the effort into a two way discussion when you've demonstrated that you've got nothing to add but are only interested in "winning" this conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Esp considering that you rarely need to kill more than 3 mobs for a quest.
    The issue tends to be that those mobs are spread out, and Black Mages have a somewhat lengthy ramp up period before they get Fire 3. You've got to start again from scratch every mob, and by the time you do get ramped up, things are dead.

    It's a very stop/start playstyle, and by the time you get properly started, it's time to stop again.

  4. #48364
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    19,025
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Where do YOU level?
    Not in FF-XIV, that's for sure, or he would know how few mobs you have to kill in order to clear a zone of side quests.
    After that it's FATEs (other players, not in your control) and instanced content (also not in your control).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    The issue tends to be that those mobs are spread out, and Black Mages have a somewhat lengthy ramp up period before they get Fire 3. You've got to start again from scratch every mob, and by the time you do get ramped up, things are dead.
    Uuh... lengthy ramp-up? Are you kidding me right now?

    BLM gets his second stack of Astral Fire at Lv20. (3rd stack at lv 40)
    At lv4 you get Transpose. You can use that to keep up one stack of Ice/Fire indefinitely. So you don't have t start at 0 AND can be in ice while jogging to your next mob, regaining full mana.
    So your "long ramp up" is at maximum 1 cast of Fire I.

    From Lv 34 on your "ramp up" is one cast of Fire III. It automatically gives you your maximum stacks.

    A melee has just as long of a ramp-up, because the first two combo skills typically hit like wet noodles.

    Seriously, to say that a BLM is slower in open world content than a tank or a healer is just plain wrong and no matter how much the other guy rages at me, that won't change.
    Last edited by Granyala; 2020-05-25 at 09:55 PM.

  5. #48365
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    If you're having downtime on a BLM, you're doing it wrong. O_o

    Esp considering that you rarely need to kill more than 3 mobs for a quest.

    What ARE you doing to level? Mobgrinds?!
    hunt log/fates

  6. #48366
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    We're not "discussing" anything. You're busy asserting that you're right and I've walked away. There's no point me putting the effort into a two way discussion when you've demonstrated that you've got nothing to add but are only interested in "winning" this conversation.
    But I added my points already that you didn't adress. We seem to disagree. My favorite tooltip design does obviously differ from yours.

    The issue tends to be that those mobs are spread out, and Black Mages have a somewhat lengthy ramp up period before they get Fire 3. You've got to start again from scratch every mob, and by the time you do get ramped up, things are dead.
    Melees have to get buffs rolling again too, low lvl BLM can transpose non-stop now due to the CD reduce.
    You are back to 100% in a single spell on low level. (lvl 20-40)
    Only cutscenes destroy that.

  7. #48367
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    19,025
    Quote Originally Posted by Nasuuna View Post
    hunt log/fates
    Yeah.. okay. If you level that way it'll be an insane drag no matter the class.
    XP from both is pretty ..... crap.
    Hunt logs are not problematic, too few mobs per sheet (typically 3-5, me thinks) and too spread out to force downtime but if you are soloing FATEs and facetanking as a caster, your HP will force you to rest. Out of combat regeneration is still leaps and bounds better than WoW/s constant eating, esp WoW Classics... ugh. Good thing conjured food has 0 kcal >.<


    Now for a more interesting/fun tidbit: A Lv 70 Red Mage can only DPS continuously (and I mean w/o a GCD pause) for 20ish minutes.
    After that you have to use lucid dreaming because you're oom. Found that one out during Eureka powergrinding.
    Last edited by Granyala; 2020-05-25 at 10:03 PM.

  8. #48368
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Seriously, to say that a BLM is slower in open world content than a tank or a healer is just plain wrong and no matter how much the other guy rages at me, that won't change.
    I wouldn't say that it's slower than a tank or healer, but it's probably amongst the slowest DPS Jobs. Fire 1 has quite a low potency of 180, and even with Astral Fire it's far from the hardest hitting skill out there. Black Mages strength at lower levels is being able to sustain that higher than average constant damage output over longer periods than other Jobs. However you can't really leverage that strength outside of FATEs where you can just turret cast.

    Melee on the other hand have a big bursty finisher with a longer build up. That burstier style works beter for leveling when you just go blow something up in a few hits. Black Mage, and Arcanist too, are left behind because their DPS output is more consistent over the longer term as opposed to being spikey in the short term.

  9. #48369
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    19,025
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    Melee on the other hand have a big bursty finisher with a longer build up. That burstier style works beter for leveling when you just go blow something up in a few hits. Black Mage, and Arcanist too, are left behind because their DPS output is more consistent over the longer term as opposed to being spikey in the short term.
    Sure absolutely, burst is superior, esp when you do not have long cooldowns associated to said burst and can barf everything onto every mob you pull.
    Considering how few mobs the game demands you to kill though, I don't see it as a major factor determining actual leveling speed.
    Travel and cutscenes will take orders of magnitude more (if we're talking about a new player), making combat opportunities feel pretty sparse. Esp in the later expansion packs. I think I fought only a handful of mobs in the open world in the course of the ShB MSQ. Oo

    If you're leveling a second class, daily duty roulettes are by far your best source of efficient xp, followed by non daily runs of your highest available dungeon.
    Side quests are barely worth doing, their xp is pathetic (read that in Lahabrea's voice). As for FATEs, no clue, never really leveled with them because I find them boring. Also I am still traumatized from all the relic FATE grinds I did. Brrrr Atma pre nerf.

  10. #48370
    I don't get it, how does that add up.

    Enemies always need X amount of Potency to be killed.
    You can do little up front and much later on, but that's still as likely to get into overkill range or needing another GCD (because your first hit was weak) as it is likely to have to use another GCD when you always deal 250 potency. It's just on the other side of the spectrum

    And what level range are we discussing, because at 42+ BLM damage gets very spikey on top.

    Fire 1 potency is 180 at lvl 1 without astral fire btw.
    Astral Fire 1 buffs it to 252 afaik, immediatly (1 cast)

    Fire 1 gets 10% potency at lvl 20 (198) and another Astral Fire brings it to 317 potency on every cast at full stacks (1 cast needed - transpose, 2 if it's the first mob in a dungeon).

    At 40 it gets another 20% on top (+30% = 234) and another Astral Fire brings it to 421 potency on every cast at full stacks (1-2 casts needed)

    At 42 it has a 40% chance for the "next spell" to basically deal 561 potency.
    That basically means from lvl 42 onwards, every spell you cast on a mob in your fire phase (which is always in Open World questing) basically deals just about 477 potency on average at that point (except for the first).

    That's a very good average pre Stormblood content, even without any oGCDs.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2020-05-25 at 10:53 PM.

  11. #48371
    Damn this game is in desperate need of some new content.

    I'm the #1 devils advocate on this forum, and even I can't be bothered to chime in on these topics LOL.

  12. #48372
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    12,712
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Damn this game is in desperate need of some new content.

    I'm the #1 devils advocate on this forum, and even I can't be bothered to chime in on these topics LOL.
    What kind of content?

    The 5.3 MSQ story will last a few hours. There will be the new Nier raid people will do once to see the ride, and then maybe only do again for some quick catchup or to try to get a glamour set.

    Otherwise, unless they do something really drastic, you're not really getting new content that will last, (besides maybe a new Eureka-esque zone for the ShB relics).

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - Druid / Steam / MyAnimeList / IMDB - - - - - - - - - - - -

  13. #48373
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    19,025
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Damn this game is in desperate need of some new content.
    I'm the #1 devils advocate on this forum, and even I can't be bothered to chime in on these topics LOL.
    Yop, we must be pretty bored if we start arguing about the low level experience.

    Anyhow, Finally managed to finish off the Stormblood Eureka relic.

  14. #48374
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    What kind of content?

    The 5.3 MSQ story will last a few hours. There will be the new Nier raid people will do once to see the ride, and then maybe only do again for some quick catchup or to try to get a glamour set.

    Otherwise, unless they do something really drastic, you're not really getting new content that will last, (besides maybe a new Eureka-esque zone for the ShB relics).
    Is WoW the same way?

  15. #48375
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    19,025
    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    Is WoW the same way?
    Pretty much, they just obfuscate it better with their "RNG-the gear grind never ends" system.
    It's easy to get to the "raid or die" point in WoW. Always has been.

  16. #48376
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    What kind of content?

    The 5.3 MSQ story will last a few hours. There will be the new Nier raid people will do once to see the ride, and then maybe only do again for some quick catchup or to try to get a glamour set.

    Otherwise, unless they do something really drastic, you're not really getting new content that will last, (besides maybe a new Eureka-esque zone for the ShB relics).
    I was being cheeky. I meant that we desperately need something new to talk about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Yop, we must be pretty bored if we start arguing about the low level experience.
    Lol the low level experience sucks, but I'm not entirely sure putting such a heavy focus on TTK is all that important. It's usually only a factor when either initially doing the MSQ or each expansion. Leveling any other job is typically done through other means. Not only that, it's stupidly easy to fix and normalize if SE wanted too.

  17. #48377
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    12,712
    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    Is WoW the same way?
    I think WoW has more content in each patch. They add zones in post-expansion patches (whereas in FFXIV, you only get new zones with an expansion box launch). They add a lot of new questlines (in FFXIV, you only get a handful of new questlines added after an expansion box launch, like Hildibrand or the raid questline or the trial questline, and a beast tribe).

    That said, FFXIV has a ton of cutscenes for... everything. I don't think WoW would be able to put out as much content as it does if they had to wait on cutscene artists to finish every quest. WoW also releases a new patch every 6 to 9 months, whereas FFXIV is every 3 months. So, in the end, while it feels like WoW patches are bigger, I think that FFXIV feels like you get more content over time.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - Druid / Steam / MyAnimeList / IMDB - - - - - - - - - - - -

  18. #48378
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    19,025
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Lol the low level experience sucks, but I'm not entirely sure putting such a heavy focus on TTK is all that important. It's usually only a factor when either initially doing the MSQ or each expansion.
    Don't know man, I always leveled as a white mage and it' quite hilarious how little combat there is during leveling.
    I don't think TTK or which class flexxes mobs faster matters at all, since 90%+ of your playtime is spent traveling or watching cutscenes.

  19. #48379
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I think WoW has more content in each patch. They add zones in post-expansion patches (whereas in FFXIV, you only get new zones with an expansion box launch). They add a lot of new questlines (in FFXIV, you only get a handful of new questlines added after an expansion box launch, like Hildibrand or the raid questline or the trial questline, and a beast tribe).

    That said, FFXIV has a ton of cutscenes for... everything. I don't think WoW would be able to put out as much content as it does if they had to wait on cutscene artists to finish every quest. WoW also releases a new patch every 6 to 9 months, whereas FFXIV is every 3 months. So, in the end, while it feels like WoW patches are bigger, I think that FFXIV feels like you get more content over time.
    Rift was the same way at launch, every 60 days a large patch came out for the first 2 years. It rotated between PVE and PVP, so one patch would have a new 20 man or 10man, next would have a new battleground, or the huge conquest update.

  20. #48380
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    I was being cheeky. I meant that we desperately need something new to talk about.
    Well, I've been giving Memoria Misera a try tonight. Pretty cool fight, the third phase was a bit touch and go until I worked out that the mechanics are linked to the shield type he uses, but overall a pretty fun boss all the same.

    I also powered through Eden's Verse too -I do feel I came in a little over prepared though. I realise it's older content, but I still rolled up with a bunch of buffs and the guides ready to go if I needed a refresher. Turns out most of it was as simple as not falling over the edge. Go figure.

    Not exactly new content, but new for me. So meh. I'm counting it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •