1. #49001
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I do not see him as a villain at all. Merely an individual acting in self interest.

    He doesn't want to destroy worlds because he finds it fun, he does it because he deems it a necessity in order to restore his own.
    The best Villains are always those with Goals that are hard to disagree with. Though the way he attains those goals are what makes him villainous.

  2. #49002
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    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    Kind of crazy to see them start putting out Emet Selch merch. Granted he's probably the most popular FF villain since Sepiroth or maybe Sin if you count it but still odd to see villains get merch outside of a brief period for Gabranth stuff. Hopefully he gets a bring arts figure.
    I think you might be looking too hard into it. It's a ShB themed deck so it has the hero and the villain on the cover. Who else would be put there, Chai-Nuzz and Vauthry? I think Emet makes sense, he's there as the main villain of the base story of the expansion.
    "I have the most loyal fanboys. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand by Thoradin's Wall and massacre my own people and I wouldn't lose any fanboys. It's like incredible." - Sylvanas Windrunner

    "If you kill your enemies, they win." - Anduin Wrynn

  3. #49003
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    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    Pretty sure a guy who wants to kill everyone living on all of the remaining shards for the chance that MAYBE Zodiark will bring his people back... is pretty evil?
    From our limited PoV yes.
    You are just as evil to the termites if you eradicate a nest in your garden.
    I'm sure most farm animals would also call us evil for treating them like crap and slaughtering them en masse to put them on the next barbecue.

    Yes his deeds actually go against Ascian beliefs. They pondered if they had the right to interfere if another civilization was under duress or whether using their powers would be playing God. People have a tendency do do that when their existence is on the line and when they see a small sliver of hope.

  4. #49004
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    I think you might be looking too hard into it. It's a ShB themed deck so it has the hero and the villain on the cover. Who else would be put there, Chai-Nuzz and Vauthry? I think Emet makes sense, he's there as the main villain of the base story of the expansion.
    You say that but from what i've read i think the earth deck is actually based on Vauthry/Innocence Emet will probably just sell more than worlds most giant baby.

    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  5. #49005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    From our limited PoV yes.
    You are just as evil to the termites if you eradicate a nest in your garden.
    I'm sure most farm animals would also call us evil for treating them like crap and slaughtering them en masse to put them on the next barbecue.
    Until you can prove to me they even understand the concept of evil or have a level of consciousness humans do this is not the same at all. Emet could easily verify the sundered life was living, thinking, conscious life, that they are human. He just considered them inferior expendable due to their natural born deficiencies. It is not the same thing.
    "I have the most loyal fanboys. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand by Thoradin's Wall and massacre my own people and I wouldn't lose any fanboys. It's like incredible." - Sylvanas Windrunner

    "If you kill your enemies, they win." - Anduin Wrynn

  6. #49006
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTharne View Post
    I thought the poster was saying that the Amaurotines thought of the other Ancients (the ones outside the capital) has inferiors.

    And also I really don't see where was the evil about their initial plan (before the Sundering). It is not stated that they would kill everyone all at the same time to revive their people. All they were going to do is no different than a farmer/sheperd tending to their crops/animals and recolting a part of it for food. (Maybe it's a harsh comparison but when they first appeared the new life forms probably looked the same to them as animals do to us.)

    And then a group of people went over everybodies head, against their government/the majority and decided to take a decision for the remaining of their people and dooming them. The real villains here are Venat and his comrades who summoned Hydaelyn and who started everything we have now.

    Edit : And of course they feel superior to us because objectively they are. Emet was in the right with what he was doing but we also were in the right in stopping him. That is what is so good about this storyline.
    It is stated outright that after they cultivated the planet enough to accomplish it, they would sacrifice as much life as necessary to bring those who sacrificed their lives in the summoning of Zodiark back. Zodiark, by his very nature and power required HUGE amounts of aether to maintain, that aether would have been provided via people sacrificing themselves. That's why the people summoned Hydaelyn, to prevent the continuous sacrifices to Zodiark to maintain him.

    The real villain(s) is the thing/person who started "The Sound" that ended up destroying the planet and required the summoning of Zodiark in the first place. We still don't know where that came from or what truly started it.

    There aren't really any villains among the Amaroutines, they were all just doing what they thought was best. That's how heroes and villains work, really, it's all a matter of perspective. Since we're a "Hero" our opposition is considered the "Villain" but the roles would be reversed when viewed from the opposite perspective. That's what makes Emet-Selch such a compelling villain, IMO.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    Until you can prove to me they even understand the concept of evil or have a level of consciousness humans do this is not the same at all. Emet could easily verify the sundered life was living, thinking, conscious life, that they are human. He just considered them inferior expendable due to their natural born deficiencies. It is not the same thing.
    Emet-Selch outright states as much. He doesn't see us as equals, we're lesser beings to him.

    How is that not similar to how we view farm animals?

  7. #49007
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Emet-Selch outright states as much. He doesn't see us as equals, we're lesser beings to him.
    How is that not similar to how we view farm animals?
    It isn't.
    It's a convenient, made-up distinction to soothe one's conscience when dealing with exploitation of "lower animals".

  8. #49008
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    It isn't.
    It's a convenient, made-up distinction to soothe one's conscience when dealing with exploitation of "lower animals".
    It isn't what? It isn't similar?

    Not quite understanding what you're trying to say because I'm not sure what you mean here.

  9. #49009
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Not quite understanding what you're trying to say because I'm not sure what you mean here.
    I herp-a-derped, sorry.
    I meant to say that it is similar to how we view farm animals and that the distinction between "self conscious" and "not self conscious" is a convenient cop-out in that circumstance.

  10. #49010
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I herp-a-derped, sorry.
    I meant to say that it is similar to how we view farm animals and that the distinction between "self conscious" and "not self conscious" is a convenient cop-out in that circumstance.
    Gotcha, 100% agree.

  11. #49011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    It isn't.
    It's a convenient, made-up distinction to soothe one's conscience when dealing with exploitation of "lower animals".
    Right. I want to say sorry I butted into your discussion, I made the assumption you were taking Emet's side and if that was true your stance now wouldn't make sense, so had to go back a few posts to see this started with you being proper on the use of the word villain.

    I disagree the distinction of conscious is made up but the overall take that he is a person acting on self-interest and his thought process similar to those who use the distinction between animals and people as an excuse for abuse to be correct.
    "I have the most loyal fanboys. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand by Thoradin's Wall and massacre my own people and I wouldn't lose any fanboys. It's like incredible." - Sylvanas Windrunner

    "If you kill your enemies, they win." - Anduin Wrynn

  12. #49012
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    Last Tales from the Shadows dropped today

    Spoiler: 
    I really want to visit the original timeline and check up on those guys, and say "well done!" and help them rebuild their world.

  13. #49013
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Last Tales from the Shadows dropped today

    Spoiler: 
    I really want to visit the original timeline and check up on those guys, and say "well done!" and help them rebuild their world.
    Well we have been going back to Ishgard for years and they make a specific deal about the WoL being able to do it so i imagine we will come back to Norvrandt as often as we do Dravania.

    I mean imagine leaving all the amourotine stuff behind and never studying it. Thats like if the explorers league just left ulduar after the raid in WoW and never studied the tech after all the threats were dealt with.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  14. #49014
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    Well we have been going back to Ishgard for years and they make a specific deal about the WoL being able to do it so i imagine we will come back to Norvrandt as often as we do Dravania.

    I mean imagine leaving all the amourotine stuff behind and never studying it. Thats like if the explorers league just left ulduar after the raid in WoW and never studied the tech after all the threats were dealt with.
    He's talking about the people that are from future Eorzea though. The one where G'raha came from.

  15. #49015
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    He's talking about the people that are from future Eorzea though. The one where G'raha came from.
    Ah, well at this point i would never say never about anything. Especially when they can now give us control of another character. They just need to run into a primal or garlean weapon and go "hey graha tia did you ever see this before?" and queue flashback time.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  16. #49016
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    They just need to run into a primal or garlean weapon and go "hey graha tia did you ever see this before?" and queue flashback time.
    Considering that he was locked in the tower for most events, I'd say his knowledge of actual events will be rather limited.

  17. #49017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    From our limited PoV yes.
    You are just as evil to the termites if you eradicate a nest in your garden.
    I'm sure most farm animals would also call us evil for treating them like crap and slaughtering them en masse to put them on the next barbecue.

    Yes his deeds actually go against Ascian beliefs. They pondered if they had the right to interfere if another civilization was under duress or whether using their powers would be playing God. People have a tendency do do that when their existence is on the line and when they see a small sliver of hope.
    I'd agree that the term villain is a bit too superficial. His motivations have more depth than that word provides. I think the more apt term is Antagonist.

  18. #49018
    Take a look at the future timeline Graha came from. An entire population of people who lost everything, including the WoL and the Scions. The entire place was completely destroyed and ruined. What did they do? They chose selflessness, to, for not a single benefit to themselves, devote some of their ENTIRE lives for the CHANCE that they could save the WoL in the past. No benefit to their future, no time spent that could have otherwise been used to help themselves, no. They chose selflessness, not some primal god to save themselves. Not some wish to kill all their enemies so they could bring back all of their friends or something. That's the parallel to Emet, him and half of his people wanting to sacrifice all the new life they created because they only cared about themselves. There was a large percentage of the population that wanted to let the new creations live so they could move on, but again, Emet and the people like him weren't the good guys in this story.

    I don't buy this whole uuuhhhh, he doesn't know any better! He's just misunderstood! Bla bla stepping on a cockroach. These are things the story writers specifically want you to see, and ask yourself, and think about, but what do people do? Emet-Selch did nothing wrong! He's a good guy at heart! Please. He might have good intentions based on what happened to him, so he is not doing a specific evil thing purely for the sake of being evil, but what he is doing is still inherently evil, regardless, which makes him a villain. These types of bad guys are very common in FF lore.
    Last edited by La; 2020-09-18 at 06:22 AM.
    *Insert every single ridiculous PC parts detail here that no one cares about*

  19. #49019
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    Take a look at the future timeline Graha came from. An entire population of people who lost everything, including the WoL and the Scions. The entire place was completely destroyed and ruined. What did they do? They chose selflessness, to, for not a single benefit to themselves, devote some of their ENTIRE lives for the CHANCE that they could save the WoL in the past. No benefit to their future, no time spent that could have otherwise been used to help themselves, no. They chose selflessness, not some primal god to save themselves. Not some wish to kill all their enemies so they could bring back all of their friends or something.
    You are aware that, by altering the timeline, they were essentially killing all entities that have been born past the incursion point?
    They did this so they wouldn't lose anyone, they stood to gain a lot if it works.

    This isn't "selflessness" at all. In fact, going back and "fixing" the future because it turned out in a way you dislike is on of the oldest topics of Sci-Fi and generally considered unethical.

    The real kicker of the entire shabang is: with their knowledge, sophistication and sheer limitless power, why didn't the Ascians
    a) have the same idea.
    b) see what was going on under their noses and put a stop to it.

  20. #49020
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Considering that he was locked in the tower for most events, I'd say his knowledge of actual events will be rather limited.
    I have to imagine during that mad dash we see a glimpse of any and all beast tribes are going "y'know what? fuck it" and summoning everything. It is the end of the world after all right? odds are that timelines ascians spent those years getting more summonings going and especially after the scions are all gone.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

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