1. #49021
    Scarab Lord Kaelwryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    You are aware that, by altering the timeline, they were essentially killing all entities that have been born past the incursion point?
    They did this so they wouldn't lose anyone, they stood to gain a lot if it works.

    This isn't "selflessness" at all. In fact, going back and "fixing" the future because it turned out in a way you dislike is on of the oldest topics of Sci-Fi and generally considered unethical.

    The real kicker of the entire shabang is: with their knowledge, sophistication and sheer limitless power, why didn't the Ascians
    a) have the same idea.
    b) see what was going on under their noses and put a stop to it.
    Except, if you read the short story, they didn't kill those people. The doomed timeline continued to exist. In our time line, those people are possibly never born so you can't exactly say they were killed when they...potentially don't exist in our timeline.
    Last edited by Kaelwryn; 2020-09-18 at 01:52 PM.

  2. #49022
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    Except, if you read the short story, they didn't kill those people. The doomed timeline continued to exist. In our time line, those people are possibly never born so you can't exactly say they were killed when they...potentially don't exist in our timeline.
    According to the short story, they EXPECTED to disappear or something afterward, ie kill those people. They didn't expect for things to just continue on afterward.

  3. #49023
    I think Venat should have been Azem. How ironic would it have been if we were a primal just like Elidibus and were destined to combat the other over our opposing belief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    You are aware that, by altering the timeline, they were essentially killing all entities that have been born past the incursion point?
    They did this so they wouldn't lose anyone, they stood to gain a lot if it works.

    This isn't "selflessness" at all. In fact, going back and "fixing" the future because it turned out in a way you dislike is on of the oldest topics of Sci-Fi and generally considered unethical.

    The real kicker of the entire shabang is: with their knowledge, sophistication and sheer limitless power, why didn't the Ascians
    a) have the same idea.
    b) see what was going on under their noses and put a stop to it.
    I have long wondered why Graha tia didn't destroy his own existence and create a paradox by changing the timeline that gave way to becoming his present self. My only conclusion is that we're not dealing with one timeline here but a multiverse, like in the Avengers. If so, that dark timeline is still continuing. And I wonder if the Ascians from it end up co-opting the same strategy to summon Zodiark in their "dark" timeline. If so, that could set the stage for us having Zodiark as a final boss, even though we stopped the rejoinings in our own world. That the ascians would co-opt our own tactics isn't even an alien concept any more now that Elidibus did as much himself.

  4. #49024
    Scarab Lord Kaelwryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    According to the short story, they EXPECTED to disappear or something afterward, ie kill those people. They didn't expect for things to just continue on afterward.
    Yes, this is true but ultimately they didn't kill anyone by sending g'raha back in time. Truthfully from what we know from ShB story and short stories, being born in that doomed time line is...I think most people would rather not have gone thru that horror.

  5. #49025
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    Yes, this is true but ultimately they didn't kill anyone by sending g'raha back in time. Truthfully from what we know from ShB story and short stories, being born in that doomed time line is...I think most people would rather not have gone thru that horror.
    I'm not sure you can make that decision for them though. It's like others making the decision for us that being born into a fragmented existence is too much of a horror.

    Also just because they didn't actually kill anyone doesn't erase the moral implications of their actions. If you opened fire into a crowded room and everyone manages to avoid your shots doesn't mean you are now blameless. They may not have intended it with malice but neither do the Ascians when they rejoin worlds.
    "I have the most loyal fanboys. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand by Thoradin's Wall and massacre my own people and I wouldn't lose any fanboys. It's like incredible." - Sylvanas Windrunner

    "If you kill your enemies, they win." - Anduin Wrynn

  6. #49026
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    Except, if you read the short story, they didn't kill those people. The doomed timeline continued to exist.

    In our time line, those people are possibly never born so you can't exactly say they were killed when they...potentially don't exist in our timeline.
    Yeah, easy cop-out by SE to circumvent any ethical issues.

    In Star Trek, the "they never existed" is seen the same as if we killed them.
    There is a nice episode "Children of Time" from Deep Space Nine tackling such a scenario.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Merie View Post
    My only conclusion is that we're not dealing with one timeline here but a multiverse, like in the Avengers. If so, that dark timeline is still continuing. And I wonder if the Ascians from it end up co-opting the same strategy to summon Zodiark in their "dark" timeline. If so, that could set the stage for us having Zodiark as a final boss, even though we stopped the rejoinings in our own world. That the ascians would co-opt our own tactics isn't even an alien concept any more now that Elidibus did as much himself.
    If we don't, then it's just a matter of time until the Ascians bridge the dimensional gap (it's what they do anyway) and start interfering in or timeline again, yup. maybe a backdoor for SE to still keep Zodiark around.

  7. #49027
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Yeah, easy cop-out by SE to circumvent any ethical issues.

    In Star Trek, the "they never existed" is seen the same as if we killed them.
    There is a nice episode "Children of Time" from Deep Space Nine tackling such a scenario.

    - - - Updated - - -


    If we don't, then it's just a matter of time until the Ascians bridge the dimensional gap (it's what they do anyway) and start interfering in or timeline again, yup. maybe a backdoor for SE to still keep Zodiark around.
    But the Ascians have no knowledge of time travel.

  8. #49028
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thestrawman View Post
    But the Ascians have no knowledge of time travel.
    5.3 MSQ
    Spoiler: 
    Emet and Elidibus were morons. Once they found about the Exarch, they had victory in their hands. They should've teleported away and gotten to work on their own time machines. Garlemald is already in a ripe position to build the next one; all they had to do would have been to return to the Source, take over as leader, stabilize the empire, make peace with the other nations, and then used the resources of and infrastructure and research to build a time machine. If the Scions and the Eorzean Alliance caught on and tried sabotaging it, Emet and Elidibus could always build up another civilization on another shard to do it, and they would never need to worry about the Scions or the WoL coming to stop them. At that point it's pretty much just "take a nap until it's finished". They could go back to before the Sundering if they wanted and stop it from happening. Only problem is they still don't have a fix for the Sound yet.

    But, instead, they just hung around and fought the WoL and the Scions, and thus got killed, wasting their perfect opportunities to set everything straight.

  9. #49029
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    Yes, this is true but ultimately they didn't kill anyone by sending g'raha back in time. Truthfully from what we know from ShB story and short stories, being born in that doomed time line is...I think most people would rather not have gone thru that horror.
    Point being they thought they would. It's a happy coincidence that they didn't, but they plotted and moved forward with their plan fully intending to eradicate their entire timeline, history and people born after the event they were trying to stop.

  10. #49030
    Quote Originally Posted by Thestrawman View Post
    But the Ascians have no knowledge of time travel.
    How is it they didn't have time travel considering Emet had a hand in making the Allagan empire? I would think even their technology would pale in comparison to that of the ancients.

    Frankly I think that if the Emet Selch didn't have the means to bend time to save his past than the fact that the sundered succeeded should have been all the proof he needed that their capabilities were sufficient to be their true successors.

  11. #49031
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thestrawman View Post
    But the Ascians have no knowledge of time travel.
    The old ones, maybe.
    Emet and Elidibus should know about it the moment we encounter Omega and Alexander.

    I'm not sure the Allagan Empire had the technology for it, as far as I know, that came from Alex/Omega, of whom the latter is basically an alien.

  12. #49032


    Do we have an idea which one is Azem?

  13. #49033
    The second one from the right

  14. #49034
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    The second one from the right
    How do we know?

  15. #49035
    Quote Originally Posted by Merie View Post
    How do we know?
    Azem's features are quite distinct, and the second one from the right matches perfectly.

  16. #49036
    I'm still new (rushed to the end) and need minimum ilvl 460 to complete the latest story dungeon. What's the quickest way to get it?

  17. #49037
    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    I'm still new (rushed to the end) and need minimum ilvl 460 to complete the latest story dungeon. What's the quickest way to get it?
    Fastest would be buying gear off the market board. Neo ishgardian set at 480 Ilvl. Start with weapon then go from their.

    Also do your daily roulettes on your lvl 80 class to get tomestones of phantasmagoria and Allegory. Phantasmagoria is not capped and will net you 460 Ilvl gear. Allegory is capped at 450 a week but will net you 490 gear.

    You should also work towards unlocking both Eden 8 man raids and the first Nier 24 man.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    The old ones, maybe.
    Emet and Elidibus should know about it the moment we encounter Omega and Alexander.

    I'm not sure the Allagan Empire had the technology for it, as far as I know, that came from Alex/Omega, of whom the latter is basically an alien.
    Allagan tech is based off of Omega, so they knew about it, but since Ascians can already travel the rift there was no need to explore that option.

    How much the Ascians know about Alexander on the other hand is hard to know. Or it could be the sheer amount of aether required to do it is impossible even for them.

  18. #49038
    Edit: nvm I got it.
    Last edited by AryuFate; 2020-09-25 at 11:37 PM.

  19. #49039
    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    The Neo Ishgardian items are lower stats than my Weathered set though.
    Make sure you're looking at the Higher Quality items, the ones with the little symbol next to them. You'll need to click onto an item from the market board to see if any HQ ones are listed, and from there you can see the stats. FF14's Market Board is not very intuituve.

    Those should be much better than Weathered gear by far, and even better than what you'll get as drops from current Dungeons.

  20. #49040
    Finally beat ShB and got caught up to 5.3 recently - so I can actually view these threads again. Really enjoyed the ending to the MSQ, and what we have up to 5.3. Still need to beat the puppet raid though, and try out some of the end-game dungeons. Always get distracted with leveling alt classes and crafters. I wonder if we'll be going to the Garlean Empire for more than a side-thing? We always get teased it, but never into it all.

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