1. #49041
    Lmao all the fights in this game are scripted to the milisecond, just memorize the pattern and win.

  2. #49042
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    Tbh I was never very good at figuring out fights in this game. They generally were very irritating to do because the lack of tooltips or an extensive combat log meant I couldn't look back at what abilities did in order to understand them.
    While there are some more obfuscated mechanics in savage, in non savage, you figure it out the moment you stand in sth you are not supposed to stand in.

    Also: observing what others do helps A LOT. Sometimes person 1 instinctively reacts correctly and person 2 can learn from them.
    You are not supposed to figure everything out by yourself.

  3. #49043
    Herald of the Titans Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    While there are some more obfuscated mechanics in savage, in non savage, you figure it out the moment you stand in sth you are not supposed to stand in.

    Also: observing what others do helps A LOT. Sometimes person 1 instinctively reacts correctly and person 2 can learn from them.
    You are not supposed to figure everything out by yourself.
    Most of the fights are like that one with the feathers and the black/white colors. Sorry I don't remember the names. I was never able to figure that one out, and people can't explain it at all. It's fine though, since I quit. The game doesn't have enough stuff to keep me engaged long-term so I really only come back once or twice a year for a month at a time anyway.

  4. #49044
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    Most of the fights are like that one with the feathers and the black/white colors. Sorry I don't remember the names. I was never able to figure that one out, and people can't explain it at all.
    That one, while baffling at first, is actually exceedingly simple and only requires minimal movement.

    I won't bother to explain, since you quit anyway.

    BTW: I feel the same about WoW. Currently contemplating whether to buy Shadowlands at all.

  5. #49045
    Herald of the Titans Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    That one, while baffling at first, is actually exceedingly simple and only requires minimal movement.

    I won't bother to explain, since you quit anyway.

    BTW: I feel the same about WoW. Currently contemplating whether to buy Shadowlands at all.
    Oh I have zero intentions to buy Shadowlands. Made that decision several months back. I loved wow at one point, but I just don't like the way the community engages with the game, and Blizzard enables them. Game's not for me anymore, but I had fun for 13 years. I'm satisfied with that. Plus, with all the excellent games coming out in the next few years, anyone who quits but still enjoys gaming, won't want for exciting, new experiences.

  6. #49046
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I've just never jived with BLM, WAY too much of a turret caster for my liking, especially given how movement heavy most fights are.
    I prefer the Black Mage to the other casters. It's got that easy to learn hard to master approach that the others lack. It's also got a much more satisfying mastery curve and has more wiggle room to really show off what you can do. Which suits me just fine, thinking ahead, positioning well and striking hard needs you to re-think most encounters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    Tbh I was never very good at figuring out fights in this game. They generally were very irritating to do because the lack of tooltips or an extensive combat log meant I couldn't look back at what abilities did in order to understand them.
    What's always thrown me off is when bosses have three or four different versions of an attack with the same name. And there's no way to differentiate between them until they actually trigger. Like the last boss in Anamnesis Anyder that has two completely different attacks both named Depth Grip for example. I mean, I'm watching the boss, I'm looking at the cast but when you're giving me intentionally misleading information that just feels like a cheap way to catch people out.

    On the subject of which;
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Agreed, but I only ever do the 24-man raid and roulettes for leveling my sub 80 jobs anymore. My RDM and healers are all already level 80 and fuck being the healer, or anyone who is expected to be a healer or rezzer, in the current 24-man raids (any 24-man when it's current, not just these Nier ones). I queued as a DPS, not a babysitter...
    Puppet's Bunker is an absolute death trap due to all the unclear information. Has the boss got the sword in their left or right hand? Sounds easy enough until you're trying to pick it out through a mass of particle effects and aren't exactly sure which way the boss is facing to begin with. Oh and I've also got to look where the groups at the other side of the Arena are pointing their lasers too so we don't get one shot, which is a situation I've found myself in more than once.

    Don't get me started on the Artillery Boss, that one is just complete bullshit. The pods especially. You want me to quickly pick out which attack the boss is doing, then look at the monitors on the wall, then look at which pod it's linked to in a spinning circular arena where any and all of those points of reference are constantly moving around? More than once I've also been rotated into one of those pink orbs and died too. Motion sickness it causes aside, the grey on grey setting causes visability issues when picking out grey objects against the background. My characters gear is predominantly white and it doesn't always pop from the arena as well as it should and has had me thinking I'm stood somewhere safe, only to seconds later find out that my foot was just in the unsafe zone and die. Honestly, this boss should have never seen the light of day.

    To be honest, the Nier raids should have never seen the light of day full stop. Their mechanics don't represent the action combat of Nier, and they don't fit with FF14 either. The post industrial design is completely at odds with the worldbuilding that's been established in FF14, the reveal that it's down to aliens at the end just drives the worldbuilding off a cliff. The story, which is supposed to be what FF is good at, is completely hamstrung by the fact that players not already in the know are basically handed a glossary and told to get on with it.

  7. #49047
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    I prefer the Black Mage to the other casters. It's got that easy to learn hard to master approach that the others lack. It's also got a much more satisfying mastery curve and has more wiggle room to really show off what you can do. Which suits me just fine, thinking ahead, positioning well and striking hard needs you to re-think most encounters.
    All of which would be fine in a static group where timing, performance and positioning are all much more consistent. But in PuG's? Far too much trouble and frustation than it's worth IMO.

    It is satisfying to play well, no doubt about that, but the almost complete reliance on standing still just makes every time you have to move a hassle because of the things you need to think about if/when you do (Ley Lines? Enochian timer? Can I get a cast off to renew it or do I need to use Transpose and Umbral Soul?). I get that this is part of playing it skillfully, but that's just not my style of game play. Kudos to those who play it and do well, but I prefer classes that have a bit more flexibility in the movement department.

    What's always thrown me off is when bosses have three or four different versions of an attack with the same name. And there's no way to differentiate between them until they actually trigger. Like the last boss in Anamnesis Anyder that has two completely different attacks both named Depth Grip for example. I mean, I'm watching the boss, I'm looking at the cast but when you're giving me intentionally misleading information that just feels like a cheap way to catch people out.
    As you allude to in your next paragraph, much of this is down to visual cues, and can sometimes be hard to decipher in the middle of battle with all the particle effects going on. I always just try and remember that a dead DPS (or healer or tank) does no DPS, so it's worth it to pause a bit and pay attention to the mechanic for a couple seconds to help ensure you don't get killed. Tunnel vision is the leading cause of death in most MMO's, lol.
    On the subject of which;


    Puppet's Bunker is an absolute death trap due to all the unclear information. Has the boss got the sword in their left or right hand? Sounds easy enough until you're trying to pick it out through a mass of particle effects and aren't exactly sure which way the boss is facing to begin with. Oh and I've also got to look where the groups at the other side of the Arena are pointing their lasers too so we don't get one shot, which is a situation I've found myself in more than once.
    That fight is a pain in the ass because of exactly what you're saying, the other bosses being across the room also makes it difficult to see sometimes depending on your positioning. It's still not that bad, as I think it provides ample time for you to figure out whats going on before the mechanic goes off.

    Don't get me started on the Artillery Boss, that one is just complete bullshit. The pods especially. You want me to quickly pick out which attack the boss is doing, then look at the monitors on the wall, then look at which pod it's linked to in a spinning circular arena where any and all of those points of reference are constantly moving around? More than once I've also been rotated into one of those pink orbs and died too. Motion sickness it causes aside, the grey on grey setting causes visability issues when picking out grey objects against the background. My characters gear is predominantly white and it doesn't always pop from the arena as well as it should and has had me thinking I'm stood somewhere safe, only to seconds later find out that my foot was just in the unsafe zone and die. Honestly, this boss should have never seen the light of day.
    I still have no idea WTF is going on in that portion of the fight, I just follow everyone else. The pod portion of the fight is awful, the rest is fine.

    To be honest, the Nier raids should have never seen the light of day full stop. Their mechanics don't represent the action combat of Nier, and they don't fit with FF14 either. The post industrial design is completely at odds with the worldbuilding that's been established in FF14, the reveal that it's down to aliens at the end just drives the worldbuilding off a cliff. The story, which is supposed to be what FF is good at, is completely hamstrung by the fact that players not already in the know are basically handed a glossary and told to get on with it.
    I like that the mechanics differ, though. It's honestly a little refreshing to have something different than the rest of FFXIV encounters, which don't exactly have a lot of variation.

    I also don't really mind that it's aesthetic is completely different. I don't think the world building goes off a cliff, either. It gives an ancient, foreign and hidden civilization vibe that I kind of like. The story, I agree with.

  8. #49048
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    To be honest, the Nier raids should have never seen the light of day full stop. Their mechanics don't represent the action combat of Nier, and they don't fit with FF14 either. The post industrial design is completely at odds with the worldbuilding that's been established in FF14, the reveal that it's down to aliens at the end just drives the worldbuilding off a cliff. The story, which is supposed to be what FF is good at, is completely hamstrung by the fact that players not already in the know are basically handed a glossary and told to get on with it.
    It's not possible to fully represent NIER in the raids but they did a pretty good job IMO - especially the more bullet hell attacks that happen, or laser attacks. The story isn't amazing but like, it's a fan tribute to a game that's from a different world entirely. I do agree on the last part though, but it's a good excuse to get people to actually play Nier: Automata. The aesthetic is out of place but that's why it's also entirely sectioned off to itself - besides the housing parts.

    But even so we have multiple shards and time travel shenanigans involved with the main story and it can pull from basically any FF in lore. While Nier isn't FF it's not like other FF games don't have similar aesthetics or time periods. What would be truly out of place is if we got a Minecraft collaboration event. Nier doesn't fit entirely, but it's not too far out there.

  9. #49049
    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinChan View Post
    It's not possible to fully represent NIER in the raids but they did a pretty good job IMO - especially the more bullet hell attacks that happen, or laser attacks. The story isn't amazing but like, it's a fan tribute to a game that's from a different world entirely. I do agree on the last part though, but it's a good excuse to get people to actually play Nier: Automata. The aesthetic is out of place but that's why it's also entirely sectioned off to itself - besides the housing parts.

    But even so we have multiple shards and time travel shenanigans involved with the main story and it can pull from basically any FF in lore. While Nier isn't FF it's not like other FF games don't have similar aesthetics or time periods. What would be truly out of place is if we got a Minecraft collaboration event. Nier doesn't fit entirely, but it's not too far out there.
    I mean, there's literally dragons coming from outer space, along with all-powerful machinery able to create whatever it thinks of. It's not really impossible to have other aliens crash-landing on the planet. However i'd like to know how they landed on the First and not the Source!

  10. #49050
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    FFXIV Live Letter 60
    • Patch 5.4 aiming for early December.
    • Blue Mage goes up to 70.
    • QoL Mahjong changes.
    • Revamp of collectible UI
    • New routes and events being added to Ocean Fishing
    • New Triple Triad ruleset: random deck of cards
    • PS4 version of FFXIV will work on PS5. A PS5 port may be developed in the future.
    • Ishgard Restoration ends in 5.4.
    • Explorer mode: you will be able to walk through dungeons without the enemies, admiring the levels or Gposing. You will be able to mount up, summon minions, etc while inside.
    • There might be a digital fan fest.
    • More UI themes.


    . - - - - - Come play MMO-C mafia with us! / Steam / MyAnimeList - - - - -

  11. #49051
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    6.0 reveal in February same month we'll probably get BC Classic reveal.

    5.4 launch probably lining up with Shadowlands.

    I need a second PC if this keeps up.
    Legion made WoD's mistakes into traditions. It is my belief when all is said and done we will regard Legion as the beginning of the end.
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  12. #49052
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I like that the mechanics differ, though. It's honestly a little refreshing to have something different than the rest of FFXIV encounters, which don't exactly have a lot of variation.

    I also don't really mind that it's aesthetic is completely different. I don't think the world building goes off a cliff, either. It gives an ancient, foreign and hidden civilization vibe that I kind of like. The story, I agree with.
    Agreed. I neither mind the Aesthetics nor the mechanics.

    Story was, so far, a huge letdown and I am saying this as s/o who played Nier Automata, so I get some of the references.

    Ishgard Restoration ends in 5.4.
    Eew, I really hope they don't remove the Achievements. I won't make 490K points on GSM in time.
    Last edited by Granyala; 2020-10-09 at 08:31 PM.

  13. #49053
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    The Pod portion of the 3rd boss isn't that hard. First round of pods literally shows you R10 are lines, R30s are circular. First time with the combo of them, you look for the R10 and go between, second portion everything is angle, so you look for the r10s and go to the side/between again. Its honestly not that hard but does require a bit of quick thinking on that last one, which personally easier to go with the herd since someone who's better at that than me will usually find it.

    For the final boss, her sword attacks are also super easy. Sword in the ground, get under her. If the sword is held parallel to her body, run the fuck away. If the sword is held above her head, get to her sides. Same applies to the clones.

    If you're having a hard time seeing a giant gooplady and her sword then why don't you set party to limited and turn off others particles. Personally, she fucking huge and you should be able to see her sword just fine even with party and others set to full. Personally think most of the tells in puppet's bunker are fine, it took like 2 runs of it to really get it down pat (though first boss i get a little questionable with myself on which line is the safe one).

  14. #49054
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    The Pod portion of the 3rd boss isn't that hard. First round of pods literally shows you R10 are lines, R30s are circular. First time with the combo of them, you look for the R10 and go between, second portion everything is angle, so you look for the r10s and go to the side/between again. Its honestly not that hard but does require a bit of quick thinking on that last one, which personally easier to go with the herd since someone who's better at that than me will usually find it.
    I've never noticed that, I was never sure where to look or what to look for, or when when it came to the pods. I'll pay attention to this next time. I've always just followed everyone else and done just fine so far, but it's obviously always better to KNOW exactly what to do and not expect everyone else to do it for you.

    For the final boss, her sword attacks are also super easy. Sword in the ground, get under her. If the sword is held parallel to her body, run the fuck away. If the sword is held above her head, get to her sides. Same applies to the clones.

    If you're having a hard time seeing a giant gooplady and her sword then why don't you set party to limited and turn off others particles. Personally, she fucking huge and you should be able to see her sword just fine even with party and others set to full. Personally think most of the tells in puppet's bunker are fine, it took like 2 runs of it to really get it down pat (though first boss i get a little questionable with myself on which line is the safe one).
    I turned down everyone else' particle effects a LONG time ago for this exact reason, but it doesn't get rid of everything and depending on your class your own particle effects can get in your way. But turning them down for everyone else helps immensely, and honestly isn't nearly as immersion breaking or weird as you think it might be, I got used to it nearly instantly because of how much clearer my field of view was.

  15. #49055
    Scarab Lord Kaelwryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I've never noticed that, I was never sure where to look or what to look for, or when when it came to the pods. I'll pay attention to this next time. I've always just followed everyone else and done just fine so far, but it's obviously always better to KNOW exactly what to do and not expect everyone else to do it for you.



    I turned down everyone else' particle effects a LONG time ago for this exact reason, but it doesn't get rid of everything and depending on your class your own particle effects can get in your way. But turning them down for everyone else helps immensely, and honestly isn't nearly as immersion breaking or weird as you think it might be, I got used to it nearly instantly because of how much clearer my field of view was.
    So for the third boss, there's panels on the wall. They are used for both the pod portion and the platform (idk better word for this mechanic). The platform portion tells you how many people need to stand in the circle.

    also realized that second part sounds a little rude, didn't mean to be I personally only have others to none since i dont need to see other alliance's stuff and i have all names but party turned off. I found that it removes a lot of clutter on the screen, plus raising the camera up a bit gives you more room. But yeah, idk i didn't find many of the tells in puppet's bunker to be that unclear after the most part. First boss is pretty much the only one that took me a bit to realize it wasn't *all* of the lines, but the ones that are closing faster that will provided the safe spot.
    Last edited by Kaelwryn; 2020-10-09 at 10:18 PM.

  16. #49056
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I also don't really mind that it's aesthetic is completely different. I don't think the world building goes off a cliff, either. It gives an ancient, foreign and hidden civilization vibe that I kind of like. The story, I agree with.
    What I don't like with the asthetic is how badly it clashes with the rest of Norvrandt. The rest of the world is vibrant and colourful, and the times where it's dingy and washed out are intentional as part of the story. The Nier raids on the other hand take part in either grimey, foggy industrial complexes or sci-fi facilities. It doesn't fit with the established tone and setting of the rest of the world.

    The Alagan Sci-fi locations are again bright, vibrant and intentionally invoke a similar image to Garlemand which helps establish it as being part of the same universe. The Nier ones look like you're in a highly lethal Apple store.

    In terms of World Building, the idea of underground robots fighting a secret war that has gone unnoticed throughout the entire history of the world is more than a little bit of a stretch. I get that the First has had more urgent issues with Sin Eaters, but surely at least one of those books in that huge library they have in the Crystarium mentions them? Given how the raids are physically located under a Dwarven mine, in an area with hotly contested mines, you have to wonder why it took so long to discover it.

    It begs serious questions like, "What were the robots doing during the flood of light?", "Is this conflict also happening on the First?" and "Why haven't the Ascians taken notice and turned them towards their own ends?". None of it really fits with the established world. I get that it's intended to be it's own self contained narative, but so were the other 24 man raids and they felt like an organic extension of Eorzea.

    The fact that the Copied Factory is an industrial complex in a sky that's also completely underground just completely throws me. Given the distance you fall, the pressure alone should be fatal long before you ever get to the combat. Also how did they manage to get two freaking spaceships underground in the Puppets Bunker?

    Now I get that some suspension of disbelief is expected when you pick up any video game, but when there are just so many jarring exceptions to the established setup I can't help but notice them.

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinChan View Post
    It's not possible to fully represent NIER in the raids but they did a pretty good job IMO - especially the more bullet hell attacks that happen, or laser attacks. The story isn't amazing but like, it's a fan tribute to a game that's from a different world entirely. I do agree on the last part though, but it's a good excuse to get people to actually play Nier: Automata.
    I've never minded cross over content or guest characters. I'm a huge fan of fighting games and both of those are common for the genre.

    What immediately stands out in those cases though is that those Guest characters can represent themselves and the series they're from well. Akuma in Tekken 7 plays just like Akuma in Street Fighter. His move set is identical, his special move inputs are the same and he even has his Super meter mechanic too. Tekken's cast is already a complete rogues gallery of Break Dancers, Bears and Robots, so Akuma fits in just fine both thematically and mechanically.

    Notics is in Tekken 7 too, and he manages to represent himself and FF15 well too. He used all his Royal Arms in his attacks and the animations match the ones he uses in FF15. He mostly uses his Engine Blade for his basic buttons and even spell attacks during his throws too.

    Soul Caliburs list of Guest characters include Link, Darth Vader and 2B and they all managed to represent both themselves and their franchises well enough within the mechanics of the Soul Calibur games.

    Now, FF14 does get the bullet hell part of Nier right, but it misses the mark on almost everything else mechanically. Because a lot of what Nier does with it's mechanics just doesn't crossover well to a Hotbar MMO format. Like most action games, Nier has fast, free flowing combat with dodge mechanics, multiple weapons and arial combat. Borrowing the surface level asthetics and little else doesn't do the source material justice.

    It might be easier to think of it the other way around. You could stuff any game you wanted full of Moogles and Chocobos, but that wouldn't make it a Final Fantasy. If you're ripping and tearing through Chocobos in hell, you're still playing Doom. If you're kicking Moogles into a goal you're still playing Fifa.

    I won't say FF14 has missed the mark with all of their cross over content. Rathalos is very similar to his representation in Monster Hunter for instance, and that small slice of crossover content works far better than attempting to tell a whole story in what is effectively another game universe.

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinChan View Post
    What would be truly out of place is if we got a Minecraft collaboration event. Nier doesn't fit entirely, but it's not too far out there.
    Thing is, a Minecraft crossover would probably work pretty well. Not so much as combat orentated content, but certainly in terms of crafting and housing content it would allow for some diversity to be injected. I wouldn't dismiss the idea entirely - Most of the kids who grew up playing Minecraft are now in their 20's. No doubt it's going to be an influence on a lot of games in future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I've never noticed that, I was never sure where to look or what to look for, or when when it came to the pods. I'll pay attention to this next time. I've always just followed everyone else and done just fine so far, but it's obviously always better to KNOW exactly what to do and not expect everyone else to do it for you.
    Just make sure you're looking at the screen the pod is connected to, not the one the pod is directly in front of. The platform rotates during the fight, but the pods stay linked to the same screen throughout. It's not a hard mechanic to understand in the basic sense, but depending on where you're currently looking and which way you decide to rotate your camera it can be too late to avoid it before you've even seen where you need to go.

  17. #49057
    "Future Rewritten" and a Matoya dungeon makes me think they are finally dealing with the fact Yshtolas been slowly dying for years. I imagine the real Matoyas going to sacrifice her life to save her, aint no way the flagship girl is dying.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  18. #49058
    How in the fuck was 5.3 considered for an "expansion" award?

  19. #49059
    Epic!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    FFXIV Live Letter 60
    • Patch 5.4 aiming for early December.
    Think I know when we should be expecting Shadowlands.
    "I have the most loyal fanboys. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand by Thoradin's Wall and massacre my own people and I wouldn't lose any fanboys. It's like incredible." - Sylvanas Windrunner

    "If you kill your enemies, they win." - Anduin Wrynn

  20. #49060
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    What I don't like with the asthetic is how badly it clashes with the rest of Norvrandt. The rest of the world is vibrant and colourful, and the times where it's dingy and washed out are intentional as part of the story. The Nier raids on the other hand take part in either grimey, foggy industrial complexes or sci-fi facilities. It doesn't fit with the established tone and setting of the rest of the world.
    I'd bet that this is intentional. I'm just not understanding why this is a big deal.

    In terms of World Building, the idea of underground robots fighting a secret war that has gone unnoticed throughout the entire history of the world is more than a little bit of a stretch. I get that the First has had more urgent issues with Sin Eaters, but surely at least one of those books in that huge library they have in the Crystarium mentions them? Given how the raids are physically located under a Dwarven mine, in an area with hotly contested mines, you have to wonder why it took so long to discover it.
    Possibly. I never got the sense that it was a centuries long war, it waslike it was something that happened a long time ago, went dormant for a long time and only recently got started back up again for some reason.

    It begs serious questions like, "What were the robots doing during the flood of light?", "Is this conflict also happening on the First?" and "Why haven't the Ascians taken notice and turned them towards their own ends?". None of it really fits with the established world. I get that it's intended to be it's own self contained narative, but so were the other 24 man raids and they felt like an organic extension of Eorzea.
    Crystal Tower and Rabanastre are heavily integrated into the lore of FFXIV, so I agree with this. The Void Ark series is also pretty integrated in the lore, but to me that felt just as disconnected from the world as this does because it has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than the raid.

    While I get where you're coming from, I'm just taking this as exactly what it seems they intend it to be which is a cameo appearance of Nier in the game with a cursory attachment to the world, only enough to make it not completely disconnected.

    I don't disagree with anything you're saying, I'm just fine with it being as disconnected and foreign as it is.

    The fact that the Copied Factory is an industrial complex in a sky that's also completely underground just completely throws me. Given the distance you fall, the pressure alone should be fatal long before you ever get to the combat. Also how did they manage to get two freaking spaceships underground in the Puppets Bunker?

    Now I get that some suspension of disbelief is expected when you pick up any video game, but when there are just so many jarring exceptions to the established setup I can't help but notice them.
    All fine, I suppose, but I really stopped taking anything a video game throws at me seriously.

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