1. #49501
    Girls wearing school uniforms into battle has been a thing since Sailor Moon. In a game with time travel and flying cars and dragons I'm not too worried about it.

  2. #49502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Have you seen the new tank armor that is craftable? So many protruding ornaments, so many places an enemy weapon can "lock into" and either deliver the force or inhibit our movement. Completely impractical.

    So just because armor does cover your body (you failed to explain in what way a metal plate would help against a magical attack though) does not mean it's design is good or even appropriate. A full body armor or schoolgirl uniform may matter when we fight other humans but it won't make much of a difference when you stand in front of Midgardsomr or Bahamut.
    That's why I mention suspension of disbelief and how it's personal. For example to me someone holding an umbrella in front of them will look more like a tank than a GNB because at least they are using something as cover instead of literally holding their weapon behind their head just to be a Dissidia reference, meanwhile to you it might just mean their chin is strong enough to make Varian proud. Likewise even if the armor is impractical, to me it still looks better if someone at least makes some effort to protect themselves than someone just prancing around with nipple tassels. We just have different breaking points for our disbelief in this fantasy setting.
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  3. #49503
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    There's two things I particularly dislike, battle academy anime settings and when people go into dungeons glammed as something that no one sane would ever wear into battle.

    Guess I can look forward to both combined in every single duty now.
    Welcome to... 2013?

    Final Fantasy games have never had protagonists wearing "practical" outfits. It's always been about looking cool.

    It's not like the actual tanky outfits are practical either.

    This (fending chest):


    Isn't any more practical than this (healing chest):


    And I just realised I don't have any screenshots with the former being fully shown.
    Last edited by Xilurm; 2020-12-15 at 07:01 PM.

  4. #49504
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    That's why I mention suspension of disbelief and how it's personal. For example to me someone holding an umbrella in front of them will look more like a tank than a GNB because at least they are using something as cover instead of literally holding their weapon behind their head just to be a Dissidia reference, meanwhile to you it might just mean their chin is strong enough to make Varian proud. Likewise even if the armor is impractical, to me it still looks better if someone at least makes some effort to protect themselves than someone just prancing around with nipple tassels. We just have different breaking points for our disbelief in this fantasy setting.
    Oh don't get me wrong: I dislike skimpy plate-kini tanks as much as you do.
    In general, I am not a fan of slutmogs that are deliberately slutty.

    Only exception would be a dancer in XIV, because erotic allure is part of the class identity.

  5. #49505
    In my opinion, there is more than enough choice for everyone in FFXIV.

    The current tomestone tank set for example is pretty nuts. Reminds me of Dark Soul. Pretty "mild fantasy"-looking too imho, except for the cloak.
    *especially* good looking if you use the weapons from the last tome stone sets. They fit amazingly well.

    The Darkknight blade looks like a common Zweihänder, the Paladin shield and sword looks relatively generic as a knights sword&board and even the Gunblade looks like a jagged blade or something. Really cool stuff.
    I'll level a tank just because of that tbh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    That's why I mention suspension of disbelief and how it's personal. For example to me someone holding an umbrella in front of them will look more like a tank than a GNB because at least they are using something as cover instead of literally holding their weapon behind their head just to be a Dissidia reference
    Huh? I always thought it's a wrath guard stance.
    Isn't that a pretty normal guard stance? The sword pointing towards the enemy like the Samurai does in this game for example, is probably less useful in combat.. unless you want to thrust alot? But I always thought a Katana is used for cuts.
    But what do I know (and I really don't know much about it) - either way, how would your guard stance look like with a blade such as a gunblade, I think it's a pretty good fit. At least there is nothing wrong with it because stances are not necessarily meant to be only defensive.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2020-12-15 at 11:16 PM.

  6. #49506
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Huh? I always thought it's a wrath guard stance.
    Isn't that a pretty normal guard stance? The sword pointing towards the enemy like the Samurai does in this game for example, is probably less useful in combat.. unless you want to thrust alot? But I always thought a Katana is used for cuts.
    But what do I know (and I really don't know much about it) - either way, how would your guard stance look like with a blade such as a gunblade, I think it's a pretty good fit. At least there is nothing wrong with it because stances are not necessarily meant to be only defensive.
    Yes and no. It's a reference to Squall's stance in Dissidia which is wrath, but Squall does do more with it than just take hits to the chin. Then again it's been a hot minute since I last played 012 so could be remembering wrong but I'm pretty sure he does block with the blade often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Oh don't get me wrong: I dislike skimpy plate-kini tanks as much as you do.
    In general, I am not a fan of slutmogs that are deliberately slutty.

    Only exception would be a dancer in XIV, because erotic allure is part of the class identity.
    Yeah I have that exception for dancers too in any game they are available. And another one for monks since I have it ingrained from too many games that the monk class identity is bare handed and chested, or at least with very light clothing.
    "I have the most loyal fanboys. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand by Thoradin's Wall and massacre my own people and I wouldn't lose any fanboys. It's like incredible." - Sylvanas Windrunner

    "If you kill your enemies, they win." - Anduin Wrynn

  7. #49507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    And another one for monks since I have it ingrained from too many games that the monk class identity is bare handed and chested, or at least with very light clothing.
    I think monks in D&D originated as the idea that they are stereotypical medieval European monastery monks going out on a mission to heal the poor and wind up fighting bad guys along the way, so they can't afford armor and weren't professionally going out into battle so the just wore robes. But then during 90s Dragon Ball and Hong Kong action flicks exploded, so the idea of monks blended together with Asian monks, as well as martial arts practitioners who practice in dojos just wearing robes.

  8. #49508
    sorrows of werlyt questline seems to be overtaking the MSQ for emotional impact

    we will see in 5.5 how it all wraps up

  9. #49509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nasuuna View Post
    sorrows of werlyt questline seems to be overtaking the MSQ for emotional impact

    we will see in 5.5 how it all wraps up
    The Valens scenes are great and the grotesque weapon designs are cool, as well as the fights. Also glad to see Terncliff, though I wish it was more fleshed out. I hope Werlyt isn't just a single empty street with 5 NPCs in it like Terncliff.

    The kids are okay. I hope Alfonse makes it.

    My biggest problem is with Gaius. How old is he? How many years was he a part of the Garlean empire? By the time he made Legatus, there was absolutely no way he could not have known that the empire he was working for was 90% evil. Also doesn't make sense how he could make Legatus just based off of merit, as in this evil empire you either need to be... well, evil to get promoted, or you need to have some sort of backing from a higher up. Who is likely evil. And there is the narrative continuing to bend over backwards trying to whitewash Gaius' actions in ARR.

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    The Bozja story has also been good but it leaves me wanting more.

    I liked the first two tiers of Eden when it was you and Thancred and Urianger flying around in a spaceship restoring life to the world. I became less interested when they left but the last tier was decent.

    The real stinker are the Nier raids. If this is what the stories of Yoko Taro's games are like then I'm going to stay way because so far it just seems like a bunch of edgy, artsy shock value nonsense. The only thing I liked about it was the Dwarf comedy and the bullet hell corridor in the second raid, and that was it.

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    Nier might have been nice as a collaboration like the GARO collab, where you can get glamours and minions and mounts and maybe some housing stuff, but I would have rather that the Alliance Raid series be something substantial like the Ivalice story, fleshing out the world with lore and new locations to visit and progressing the story of the game and such.

  10. #49510
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    To be fair, Garlemald wasn't really portrayed as overwhelmingly evil back in the days of 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0. It only took a sharp term when the writer responsible for large swathes of ARR and HW left to go work on FFXVI.

    I'd argue they completely ruined Regula and Varis. The former by refusing to bring him up in any way even when it was narratively appropriate and the latter by having him do a complete heel face turn despite everything up until a certain cutscene presenting him as someone who wasn't happy about his people and homeland being manipulated and who also looked down on questionable experiments up until that point.

    On the other hand, I'm sure the writers are well aware that a sizable portion of their fanbase views the world in black or white to the point of sending people death threats for daring to like the 'bad guys', so it wouldn't surprise me if they're trying to wash their hands of Garlemald for the most part. Much like the Ascians, it's a large part of 1.0 and standing in the way of the development team moving on to do something completely unique with no ties to the original game.

    As for Nier? I'm not terribly impressed. Playing a male character, the glamour isn't to my liking. The fights are enjoyable enough but the story is rather lacking so far. I think the best aspect for me so far is the music rolls.

    It makes me worry about what may be shoved into 6.0 for the sake of 'rule of cool'. I suppose we'll find out when the Fan Fests go live.

  11. #49511
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post

    The real stinker are the Nier raids. If this is what the stories of Yoko Taro's games are like then I'm going to stay way because so far it just seems like a bunch of edgy, artsy shock value nonsense. The only thing I liked about it was the Dwarf comedy and the bullet hell corridor in the second raid, and that was it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ....uff....

  12. #49512
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    ....uff....
    Before Shb came out, the Nier alliance raid was hyped up as "Yoko Taro bringing his unique stuff to FFXIV". Well, we're two raids in with one to go, and so far it's just been:
    Spoiler: 
    Raid 1
    Dwarf comedy (which was fun)
    Dwarves suddenly discover an ancient city (that makes no sense why it was undiscovered when there are Amaro and airships flying over mountains) and you go in
    You fight a bunch of robots (again makes no sense why they weren't taking over the world) who are barely characterized
    White android fights black android boy and it's not clear what's happening

    Raid 2
    More dwarf comedy (that's fun)
    White androids blow up Dwarf village for no apparent reason
    Black android shows up and tells you to follow her, doesn't explain what's going on
    You go to raid 2 (again makes no sense why this place hasn't been discovered) to fight white androids (not sure why they are hostile or why they pretended being nice to you at first when they could've just shanked you)
    At the end the white androids form into a giant blob monster for... reasons


    I have absolutely no idea what's going on, why it's happening, and more importantly, why I should care.

    Contrast that with the Ivalice story. The lore of the world was fleshed out. We were introduced to new nations, and get to see more of the Garlean occupation in Dalmasca. We found out about a secret Viera kingdom. We got to visit one of the ancestral homelands of the Garleans in Goug. The physics of the setting was fleshed out with Auracite and the Crystal Resonance waves. We got to see an interesting story, with how Dalmasca was conquered and the prince and princess died and how her guards feel guilty and became pirates but now they want to set things right and liberate Dalmasca, and how the Princess might actually be alive and there might be a happy reunion. We saw an interesting story in how Emperor Solus was a patron of the theater, and how the theater troupe's lives were at risk for their controversial opinions and for their messaging in their plays, they are trying to find new ways to entertain and want to find out more about their heritage. The characters were fun. I really liked Ramza. The Moogle duo was cute comedy. I really want to see how the Dalmascan resistance reclaims their homeland. I wanted to see what Gabranth was going to do.

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    Crystal Tower also had the characters of Cid and Nero and G'raha Tia and Rammbroes going for it, which made it interesting. And learning more about Allag, as well as the 13th shard.

    The sky pirate raids didn't have that much going for them, but it developed the world as we found out more about the Fifth Astral Era and the three predominant cities of the time, and learned more about the Voidsent. The rivalry between the sky pirates crews was also fun.

    But Nier? The only thing I liked about it was the 5 minutes of Dwarf comedy. Otherwise, it has no endearing characters. It does not flesh out the world. It's just... a whole lot of flash over substance, and then you forget about it.

  13. #49513
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    And there is the narrative continuing to bend over backwards trying to whitewash Gaius' actions in ARR.
    Hmm I don't perceive it that way. They clearly state that his actions were wrong and he even states himself that his approach of "by any means necessary" was the incorrect one.

    He might have had noble intentions (if you listen to him in the Praetorium, you could already confirm that in ARR). I never really perceived him as a "bad guy" just a "misguided guy". How much he knew and didn'T know... He knew the whole Ascian shabang but he did not know the actual plans of the Ascians and how much of a pawn Garlemald really was.

    As for the questline: I find the bad guy here Austin Powers levels of cliché. Zenos 2.0, just a moron with a lot of power and a clearly damaged brain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I have absolutely no idea what's going on, why it's happening, and more importantly, why I should care.
    Uuh welcome to Nier.
    In the first 2 playthroughs of Nier Automata, that's precisely how the game feels.
    It gets a little clearer in the 3rd run (the game changes perspective after each run) but there is still a lot of room for interpretation and the story stays fairly vague.

    Apparently people like that, personally I was underwhelmed, given all the hype.

  14. #49514
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    Sadly it really does seem like it was less about making Nier fit the game world and more about giving people 2B focused fanservice. I thought Nier Automata was a decent game but a lot of the stuff I personally liked about it just isn't present in the crossover.

  15. #49515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    The Valens scenes are great and the grotesque weapon designs are cool, as well as the fights. Also glad to see Terncliff, though I wish it was more fleshed out. I hope Werlyt isn't just a single empty street with 5 NPCs in it like Terncliff.

    The kids are okay. I hope Alfonse makes it.

    My biggest problem is with Gaius. How old is he? How many years was he a part of the Garlean empire? By the time he made Legatus, there was absolutely no way he could not have known that the empire he was working for was 90% evil. Also doesn't make sense how he could make Legatus just based off of merit, as in this evil empire you either need to be... well, evil to get promoted, or you need to have some sort of backing from a higher up. Who is likely evil. And there is the narrative continuing to bend over backwards trying to whitewash Gaius' actions in ARR.
    The Valens stuff is pretty well done. I haven't finished the quest line yet, it was hitting too close to home and had to take a break. Which honestly is the biggest praise I could give it.

    Gaius had Varis and I don't think the Empire is "90% evil". Valens actions should be more reflective of himself and his Legion than the Empire as a whole considering the Empire seems to currently exist more as a concept rather than any real centralized government. There's no Emperor and we have Legati left and right siezing power in whatever way they can to stablish themselves in what new Empire might come out of this chaos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    The real stinker are the Nier raids. If this is what the stories of Yoko Taro's games are like then I'm going to stay way because so far it just seems like a bunch of edgy, artsy shock value nonsense. The only thing I liked about it was the Dwarf comedy and the bullet hell corridor in the second raid, and that was it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Nier might have been nice as a collaboration like the GARO collab, where you can get glamours and minions and mounts and maybe some housing stuff, but I would have rather that the Alliance Raid series be something substantial like the Ivalice story, fleshing out the world with lore and new locations to visit and progressing the story of the game and such.
    I've only played Automata and wasn't impressed. You had to finish the game a couple of times before it revealed more of the plot but it was mostly just Existensialism 101.

    A GARO collab would have worked so much better. Most new Nier fans seem to come from Automata and all they seem to care about is 2B's ass. A collab that just focused on art and gear would have fit much better and leave the Alliance Raid spot for something that would flesh out the story and world better. I'd kill for another Ivalice, as it is right now I've only run Muppet's Bunker once, no real interest in doing it again at all.

    Edit: I read some plot summaries of older Nier games because older fans swear there's a good story buried in there and I felt they were just edgy, artsy shock value nonsense... but then again I think most anime is exactly that so it could have just not been for me. You seem to like that stuff so maybe the older games might interest you. They have more substance than Automata that just felt really superficial, specially compared to all the hype people gave it.
    Last edited by Hyral; 2020-12-16 at 05:32 PM.
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  16. #49516
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I have absolutely no idea what's going on, why it's happening, and more importantly, why I should care. Contrast that with the Ivalice story.
    There is no contrast, it's the same shit if one haven't played Tactics and XII before (like me). Long slog through nonsensical dialogues that are referencing stuff I have no idea about. If Orbonne story can just dump Tactics' ending on player with no context, why can't Nier raids reference Automata plot constantly?
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  17. #49517
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    My biggest problem is with Gaius. How old is he? How many years was he a part of the Garlean empire? By the time he made Legatus, there was absolutely no way he could not have known that the empire he was working for was 90% evil. Also doesn't make sense how he could make Legatus just based off of merit, as in this evil empire you either need to be... well, evil to get promoted, or you need to have some sort of backing from a higher up. Who is likely evil. And there is the narrative continuing to bend over backwards trying to whitewash Gaius' actions in ARR.
    Evil? In what way? You're always going to find corrupt people in power wherever you go. What Gaius didn't know was that the Empire was founded by an Ascian. And Ascians aren't evil, well with the exception of Fandaniel maybe, who knows, we haven't seen his entire story yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    The real stinker are the Nier raids. If this is what the stories of Yoko Taro's games are like then I'm going to stay way because so far it just seems like a bunch of edgy, artsy shock value nonsense. The only thing I liked about it was the Dwarf comedy and the bullet hell corridor in the second raid, and that was it.
    Come now, I haven't played the Nier games and even I know you can't base that on a few quests that barely tell us anything.

  18. #49518
    Over 9000! Graeham's Avatar
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    I switched back to a Midlander from Raen. I really liked how the latter looked - especially towering over everybody else - but that new fending set with the dark souls aesthetic just doesn't work with horns.

    So, back to this guy:


  19. #49519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Evil? In what way? You're always going to find corrupt people in power wherever you go. What Gaius didn't know was that the Empire was founded by an Ascian.
    ... How does "the Empire is evil because it was constructed by evil people" justify working for an evil empire to commit acts of evil?

    He massacred my old Scion friends in 2.0. He sent Livia into the Waking Sands and she executed almost everyone there. And then Gaius kept sending soldiers after us all throughout 2.0, even trying to kill Biggs and Wedge. Then he was going to use the Ultima Weapon to start blowing up cities until Eorzea surrendered (READ: commit mass murder). Oh, and conquered Ala Mhigo and was apparently such a brutal ruler that people died trying to escape.

    Starting with Stormblood, the game tries to retcon him as "misguided but not evil", with him shutting down Black Rose and being presented as "the good governor" of Ala Mhigo before "the evil Zenos took over". "Actually, Livia massacred the Scions on her own accord out of jealously!". The game is presenting him as a cool character and a "tragic hero", but there is just no getting around the "he murdered hundreds of people and was planning on murdering hundreds more" part and is working apart of a heinously evil regime.

    Believe me, I'd love for Garlemald to not be a stereotypical evil JRPG empire. I'd like for it to be like Erebonia, just another country you visit and adventure in with it's own problem, a place not inherently more evil than any other. But that's not what is portrayed ingame. Ingame, literally every Garlean is either 1. apart of the empire and complicit in committing evil (the least evil was Regula and even he killed tons of people trying to obtain what were effectively weapons of mass destruction, good chance he was going to do the same thing Gaius was going to do...), or 2. a defector (Cid/Nero/Lucia/Maxima, and now Gaius). We have not met one single good Garlean who was working within the system to try to make things better and who didn't cross any lines. Because that's impossible. You can't be apart of the Garlean empire and be in a position of power without being evil or complicit in evil, because it's not morally grey empire. It's a straight up JRPG evil empire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Ascians aren't evil, well with the exception of Fandaniel maybe, who knows, we haven't seen his entire story yet.
    The one and only justification for Fandaniel not being evil would be that the Sound has somehow corrupted/twisted his soul so that he has no choice to be evil. Really, that's it.

    I think Fandaniel was either wronged in the past and is now incredibly spiteful, or he was twisted by the Sound. I'm not expecting him to become a tragic anti-villain like Emet-Selch and Elidibus. He works as a clown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    I switched back to a Midlander from Raen. I really liked how the latter looked - especially towering over everybody else - but that new fending set with the dark souls aesthetic just doesn't work with horns.
    It seems that no matter what we fantasia to, we always come back to our first pick.

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    At this point, I'm not hoping for anything substantial with Garlemald really. It sounds like it's being blown up offscreen, and at this point Garlemald isn't really relevant in the grand scheme of things. The plot focus is on fixing the Source of the Sound/preventing the Final Days and dueling Zenos. When they wrote Stormblood, they had pretty much locked themselves out of visiting Garlemald as a place to adventure in like Ishgard or Doma, and the creators clearly don't care about exploring that idea. After 4.0 it was only ever going to be the big bad evil empire to serve as villains to fight and a place to conquer. The only hope I have at this point is that we at least get a reconstruction storyline like Doma's and get to see a new government built, like with Eulmore (more indepth, please). I also hope that the fundamental problem of Garleans not being able to wield magic is addressed. I wouldn't want this to be a WW1 situation where the Allies walk in, conquer, and then walk out leaving a devastated country behind and pat themselves on the back without having actually addressed the problem.

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    I wonder if we will even get to see those three towers in Garlemald's capital (didn't see any such structures during the Estinien and Gaius segment in capital in 5.0), as seen on the map of Aldenard. Would've been cool if the capital had a magnificent skyline of towers, like that one city from FF8 whose name escapes me at the moment. But it'll probably be a dungeon like Ala Mhigo, or a ruined zone.


  20. #49520
    Over 9000! Graeham's Avatar
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    As I see it, I'm not a huge fan of the desire for characters to be punished for past actions, even if misguided or shady. I wouldn't have enjoyed FF7 if Rude, Reno, Elena, Tseng, Rufus and Reeve were executed or imprisoned at the end of the game. I wouldn't have enjoyed FF8 if Seifer was executed or imprisoned at the end of the game. I wouldn't have enjoyed FF9 if Beatrix was executed or imprisoned at the end of the game.

    ...and so on and so forth.

    The game bends over backwards to come up with reasons as to why most of the protagonists get away from danger and consequences largely unscathed. I think it's only fair that at least some of the antagonists get the same benefit.

    Granted, I would prefer Garlemald to be handled as being more similarly to Archades in FFXIV but at the end of the day Final Fantasy games have been popular in no small part due to memorable antagonists.

    I'm hoping the writers are able and willing to let both the Ascians and the Garleans have a happy ending of some sort.

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