1. #49721
    Quote Originally Posted by TidalConflux View Post
    I actually will disagree.

    In Castrum, the first and last fights had punishing elements which made it so the group would be punished if they didnt do things right, didnt kill things fast enough, didnt perform mechanics correctly. And it would result in a wipe of a group, and possible even harm the run because of the clock being low on time.

    In Delubrum, it really doesnt matter how many people die or miss mechanics...because there is no punishing players for messing up. There is no enrages, except for the rage building in your healer as they rez you for the ninth time. The doom mechanic is very mitigateable by the fact that you can just rez as many times as you want to. Compare it to Eureka (specifically Absolute Virtue), where there was safe guards against mass chain rezing by Dooming the healer when they did.

    To me, it just feels like a major downgrade because there is just nothing that stop mass rezzing to victory. Theres no real challenge outside of the mechanics (which you figure out after the first or second attempt). Especially if they expect you to grind DR for Relic. Making bosses health sponges doesnt mean harder content either.
    That's DR savage. That's the difficulty you want.

  2. #49722
    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    It doesnt have to be a power system and you re not right in assuming that I have a WoW players bias. I quit WoW back in ARR because FFXIV drew me more as a game for many many reasons. I EXCLUSIVELY played FFXIV all the way until clearing shiva savage in shadowbringers. My steam has a good 5k hours on the game. I absolutely love the game and the core of the game and have raided every tier since then.
    But there is a problem. Its gotten to the point where like I said every single expansion is exactly the same type of content but with even less stuff added to this content and some content being cut entirely.
    I m not asking them to reinvent the wheel but they have to add new systems to the game. For example dungeons have been a snoozefest since forever. As a tank player, running a dungeon is basically pulling all the mobs from one end to the next, the WHM spams holy to stunlock em, I hallowed ground on the next pull and we finish the dungeon in 10 minutes. Why not do something exciting with dungeons? Make challenging versions of dungeons that reward cosmetic gear.
    They added ultimate raids for the raiding crowd only to cut it down entirely in shadowbringers with only 1 ultimate.
    All of the "new" content they add is basically content that is consumed in5 minute intervals or in the case of the new island a new afk hub.
    They havent even upped the number of raid bosses in a raid or something akin to that.
    Back in ARR and HW the number one thing I kept thinking while playing is "this game is fucking amazing! imagine what this game will have in 6 years from now".
    Little did I know it would basically have the same exact things but reskinned.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This sums it up perfectly
    I understand that it may be fatigue since i played ARR but was unimpressed and only returmed in ShB. So, i guess it is not affecting me in the same way wethers it does you.

    I totally would like to see a mythic+ system in FF. Yoshida has been asked about it and it's a popular request in the community. He said they didn't have the resources or would have to cut something and honestly, i would be ok with them cutting on Eureka/bozja cause that content uses up a ton of resources and is mostly ignored after a few weeks.

    But, it is what it is. Playing different mmo's, i learned that none of them is perfect. They all have strong points and weak points and don't really seem keen on copying each other for some reason. FF is no exception. Atm i play both WoW and FF and they scratch different hitches. One is good at some things and one at others.
    Would be good if they tried to learn from each other more though.

  3. #49723
    Quote Originally Posted by Thestrawman View Post
    That's DR savage. That's the difficulty you want.
    And I've done it. I am just very disappointed that the DR Normal didnt have a modicum of punishment outside of Boss 3's final phase. Like why doesnt the Queen have any sort of punishment mechanic if too many people die? We have seen it before in normal duties.

    It is a tad insulting to the more casual playerbase that DR normal is coddling.

  4. #49724
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattleya View Post
    This applies to the entire genre really. There are three types of MMORPG: Those that died, those that managed to find success and keep doing what made them successful without innovation, and those that are stuck in crowdfunding hell
    While certainly true, FF14 is by and far the biggest offender in the genre of the games that actually matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I don't like the atitude of sitting in a chair and saying "re-invent the wheel! Surprise me!" when the wheel clearly gets everyone moving already.
    Maybe the wheel in this case isn't perfect, but it's the best we have come up with so far. It works. Don't diss it. Many players enjoy it and sitting on the high chair and shouting "surprise me! Give me what i don't know if i want!" is a tall and risky order. Not that they should stop trying, but lets not diss what works too much.
    I know what I want:

    • More active/dynamic combat - That means less rigid rotations, more interaction inside job kits (i.e. decision flows), procs, less binary oGCDs, and options for faster GCD gameplay (SkS is not that).
    • Better Netcode - Nuff said.
    • Glamour system overhaul - You have such nice gear and a cool dye system, but metal doesn't dye well at all and you're limited to one dye channel.
    • More raid bosses in a raid - 4 bosses isn't really good. I also don't think they need to design every single savage fight to be 8-14 minutes long. Some of my favorite fights were the Kefka/ExDeath gate keeper fights. High impact 4 and a half minute fights with rapid mechanics.
    • More dynamic raid design - Raid design is very rigid. Once I know a fight I catch myself dozing off sometimes because my muscle memory takes over.

    I recognize that most people may not like what I like, but there's compromise in there.

    Hmm... i see. But, as you point out FF does add new things as well. They don't just make a system the expansion revolves around.

    I honestly don't like it myself. Covenants for example, are a huge pain. I am forced into grinding anima to unlock my power and i am locked into my ability choices despite their worth unless i want to grind all over again. I make a power rather than a theme or cosmetic choice.
    If the system didn't revolve around player power it would be much more pleasant to engage with.

    I don't really like the way WoW does it, and there is my other point. Just cause the expansions don't revolve around a new system, doesn't mean it's a bad thing as WoW often misses the mark on it. It's preferable to experiment without forcing the player (eureka, bozja). That is how you reach at fun.
    I find confort in knowing FF isn't gonna screw me over with some power system they decided to make up for every expansion.
    Eureka and Bozja are not my penultimate idea of fun. They're WILDLY polarizing content types and honestly I can't stand them for how grind heavy they are.

    Grinding? I play maybe cumulatively 3 hours a week and I put up 85%+ logs, 99% if you go by ilvl. I do one M+ and some raiding as a casual tag a long a week and the maw weeklies. I don't have to grind a damn thing in this game and it's great!

    I understand that it may be fatigue since i played ARR but was unimpressed and only returmed in ShB. So, i guess it is not affecting me in the same way wethers it does you.

    I totally would like to see a mythic+ system in FF. Yoshida has been asked about it and it's a popular request in the community. He said they didn't have the resources or would have to cut something and honestly, i would be ok with them cutting on Eureka/bozja cause that content uses up a ton of resources and is mostly ignored after a few weeks.

    But, it is what it is. Playing different mmo's, i learned that none of them is perfect. They all have strong points and weak points and don't really seem keen on copying each other for some reason. FF is no exception. Atm i play both WoW and FF and they scratch different hitches. One is good at some things and one at others.
    Would be good if they tried to learn from each other more though.
    All great points here though.

  5. #49725
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I don't like the atitude of sitting in a chair and saying "re-invent the wheel! Surprise me!" when the wheel clearly gets everyone moving already. Maybe the wheel in this case isn't perfect, but it's the best we have come up with so far. It works. Don't diss it. Many players enjoy it and sitting on the high chair and shouting "surprise me! Give me what i don't know if i want!" is a tall and risky order. Not that they should stop trying, but lets not diss what works too much.
    People say this ironically, but honestly that's what players are paying for. Good design, ideas, and concepts that any Tom, Dick and Harry couldn't think of off the top of their heads.

    Either that or players are all sitting around bemoaning the genre being "stale" and "the same as always" while also saying that the wheel is fine and not to change anything up.

  6. #49726
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TidalConflux View Post
    I actually will disagree.either.
    Castum is the opposite of challenging.

    Challenging means: you can turn the boat around with ample skill. In Castrum one tiny group decided success/failure on the last boss. Jack shit you can do about it if they can't seem to get it right.

    1st boss is more of a coordination game: split the raid up properly and the get one party to STOP doing crap until the other catches up.

    Castrum feels very much like DR normal in terms of actual difficulty, most mechanics are very obvious and straight forward. Oh and you can also chain-rez bosses you just have less time to do so.

  7. #49727
    Quote Originally Posted by TidalConflux View Post
    It is a tad insulting to the more casual playerbase that DR normal is coddling.
    I don't find it insulting. I just wanted to do it for the quest completion. I have no interest in doing it again for the challenge. With the lost mettle and rewards being lack luster, there's no compelling reason for me to throw myself at the fights when my success rate is somewhat dependent on the competency of 20+ other players.

    They put in the Savage mode for those who actually want a challenge so I'm OK with (and actually prefer) the Normal version that's required to finish the quest being easy, because the competency of the average player at any given time is...questionable.

  8. #49728
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    With the lost mettle
    People still whine about that?
    Mettle has 0 uses past getting to 700K once to unlock savage.

  9. #49729
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    People still whine about that?
    Mettle has 0 uses past getting to 700K once to unlock savage.
    Getting to rank 15 in the first place is pretty hard, so people are incentivized NOT to run DR until they hit rank 15.

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  10. #49730
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I understand that it may be fatigue since i played ARR but was unimpressed and only returmed in ShB. So, i guess it is not affecting me in the same way wethers it does you.

    I totally would like to see a mythic+ system in FF. Yoshida has been asked about it and it's a popular request in the community. He said they didn't have the resources or would have to cut something and honestly, i would be ok with them cutting on Eureka/bozja cause that content uses up a ton of resources and is mostly ignored after a few weeks.

    But, it is what it is. Playing different mmo's, i learned that none of them is perfect. They all have strong points and weak points and don't really seem keen on copying each other for some reason. FF is no exception. Atm i play both WoW and FF and they scratch different hitches. One is good at some things and one at others.
    Would be good if they tried to learn from each other more though.
    Frankly I'd be happy if they just tuned level cap versions of leveling dungeons. It was so tiresome running the same two dungeons for 3-6 months when all the dungeons I leveled up through were basically never seen again upon reaching the cap.

  11. #49731
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    People still whine about that?
    Mettle has 0 uses past getting to 700K once to unlock savage.
    I'm not capped on Rank yet, so...yeah. Losing mettle sucks before you're capped.

    Otherwise you're right, it has no bearing on anything.

  12. #49732
    spent the weekend doing 51 old alliance raids for my ShB relic. still can't believe this is what the community wanted over eureka.

  13. #49733
    Over 9000! Graeham's Avatar
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    I ran the new raid for the third time for the weekly quest. It went smoothly even though seven people dropped out right at the start. It took a bit longer to defeat the bosses but there were minimal deaths. I can't wait to get a hold of the tank set.

  14. #49734
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Hmm, sage feels a bit redundant as just another healer with scholar already existing.
    My biggest hope here is that they clean up the Scholar at the same time. At the moment, it's a complete and utter mess, both in terms of it's gameplay and it's identity. It's got far too many redundent tools (Do I really need 3 different kinds of AoE Shield?), too many niche use skills (Dispersion) and mechanics that don't really work or have any kind of interplay (Fairy Gauge).

    I get that they want to have two healers be focused on throughput and two on preventative shielding, but how they're going to make the Sage different from the Scholar when they've already had to give the Scholar slightly different flavours of the same skill remains to be seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    They're not really missing an archetype, though there's plenty of inspiration to draw from if you look at other games or even FFXI (Really only three left they could get from there; Corsair, Geomancer and Rune Fencer), but based on the shirts Yoshi-P was wearing (which have historically been teasers themselves), the rumors are circling that it's a Scythe wielding class, possibly a Reaper, a death themed class. Beastmaster and Puppetmaster have been discussed as the next limited job, which would be cool I think.
    That would depend if you mean a mechanical archetype or a job fantasy one. Mechanically, there's space for a DoT orentated melee and a pet orentated melee without overlapping.

    From a fantasy perspective, there's lots of scope for a technology themed melee, Battlemages, straight forward big hitters, Strength based dual wielders and, well... Pretty much anything really. Were it up to me, I'd like a 2h hammer wielding Job that doesn't do anything fancy, but just smashes things with it. It's a niche that has been sorely missing in FF14.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    I know what I want:

    • More active/dynamic combat - That means less rigid rotations, more interaction inside job kits (i.e. decision flows), procs, less binary oGCDs, and options for faster GCD gameplay (SkS is not that).
    • Better Netcode - Nuff said.
    • Glamour system overhaul - You have such nice gear and a cool dye system, but metal doesn't dye well at all and you're limited to one dye channel.
    • More raid bosses in a raid - 4 bosses isn't really good. I also don't think they need to design every single savage fight to be 8-14 minutes long. Some of my favorite fights were the Kefka/ExDeath gate keeper fights. High impact 4 and a half minute fights with rapid mechanics.
    • More dynamic raid design - Raid design is very rigid. Once I know a fight I catch myself dozing off sometimes because my muscle memory takes over.

    I recognize that most people may not like what I like, but there's compromise in there.
    I know you and I have criticised Squenix for playing things a little bit too safe with FF14 in the past, and I think that it still stands up today. I'm not sure if they're reluctant to take risks due to 1.0 flopping, if it's a lack of time and resources or if it's a simple lack of vision. Whatever the reason they've found their grove and they seem to be sticking to it.

    I'd love for them to try something that's a huge departure from their norm. Both Job and content design is extremely rigid, and while some people may appreciate that, long term it gets very stale. I'd *love* to have an 8 man raid that's a joined up cohesive place rather than a series of instanced encounters - Even the Alliance raids are guilty of this, most of them are long corridors to boss rooms followed up by a teleport or a flight or something to another corridor with a boss room. The less said about Matoya's Relict the better.

    Bosses, as has been said hundreds of times before, are all just a case of learning the safety dance. I don't think I've ever seen one where the group has needed to quickly readjust on the fly. WoW was doing this as far back as BWL with his Chromagus and Nefarian and hasn't really ever stopped since.

    Job design too is in the same mould. They have loosened a little here with the Dancer and it's more RNG approach, but fundamentally the decision is always "Which of these buttons has the highest potency?" A job that breaks away from the static build and spend mechanics every other job has would be a welcome change. Procs are one way to do it, RNG to shake it up is another. Maybe just a Job thats limited by their ability cooldowns. Theres plenty of options, but they'd need to completely redesign existing jobs to take advantage of them. While a couple of jobs could use a complete overhaul (Summoner), a new job is the perfect opportunity to try something, you know... New!

    Also yes, the server tick rates are horrible. I get why they did it, but sometimes it makes for some really janky gameplay that's really not acceptable in 2021. I really notice it as a tank when I'm positioning mobs and I know I hit them with a Nascent Cyclone, but the mob is going to run towards the healer for a couple of seconds before it realises and turns back around. I don't play Melee DPS for this reason and this reason alone.

  15. #49735
    So I gave up tanking and I don't play my SMN anymore, Figured I would give Dancer a try.

    Is it just me or does it seem like Dancer is smash face across keyboard = profit. Just click until ability's glow then click those. Not that I don't mind it because with my reaction time I don't mind playing something that is that simple.

    (to be clear this is at starting level, just started leveling it)
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  16. #49736
    Stood in the Fire listo95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    So I gave up tanking and I don't play my SMN anymore, Figured I would give Dancer a try.

    Is it just me or does it seem like Dancer is smash face across keyboard = profit. Just click until ability's glow then click those. Not that I don't mind it because with my reaction time I don't mind playing something that is that simple.

    (to be clear this is at starting level, just started leveling it)
    That's about it. Press the shiny button and win while using things on CD. At least you look glorious while doing it!

  17. #49737
    Quote Originally Posted by listo95 View Post
    That's about it. Press the shiny button and win while using things on CD. At least you look glorious while doing it!
    Right. I honestly think this may be the class for me lol. My reaction time and memory is a bit shit these days, so being able to smash my face into the keyboard and win is great LOL.
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  18. #49738
    Stood in the Fire listo95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Right. I honestly think this may be the class for me lol. My reaction time and memory is a bit shit these days, so being able to smash my face into the keyboard and win is great LOL.
    The opener is insanely easy also lol.
    Standard Finish - Technical Step/Finish - Flourish - Reverse Cascade or Rising Windmill - Devilment - follow priority.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And this is not me bashing the job lol, I main DNC. I just love the aesthetic so much.

  19. #49739
    Quote Originally Posted by listo95 View Post
    The opener is insanely easy also lol.
    Standard Finish - Technical Step/Finish - Flourish - Reverse Cascade or Rising Windmill - Devilment - follow priority.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And this is not me bashing the job lol, I main DNC. I just love the aesthetic so much.
    ya I'm digging it more than I though I would.
    Check me out....Im └(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┐└(-.-)┐ Dancing, Im └(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┐└(-.-)┐ Dancing.
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  20. #49740
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    That would depend if you mean a mechanical archetype or a job fantasy one. Mechanically, there's space for a DoT orentated melee and a pet orentated melee without overlapping.

    From a fantasy perspective, there's lots of scope for a technology themed melee, Battlemages, straight forward big hitters, Strength based dual wielders and, well... Pretty much anything really. Were it up to me, I'd like a 2h hammer wielding Job that doesn't do anything fancy, but just smashes things with it. It's a niche that has been sorely missing in FF14.
    More referring to the big fantasy tropes. There's still plenty of room to add new ones, as slightly different flavors of the already filled roles, but they have the big ones filled.

    Agreed 100% on the mechanics though. I would hope that with a DoT oriented melee they would stray from the rote combo based ones they already have. Monk and Dragoon both have DoT's that are part of their "core" rotation, so having another class that plays similarly but just does less damage with their melee attacks and relies instead on the damage from their DoT's would be boring. The game play would need to be fundamentally different from the other melee jobs for me to want to play it. Of the melee DPS jobs, the only one I like is Ninja because it does feel different enough with the Mudras.

    Melee job with a pet would be cool if they actually let it be a pet and not do what they did to SMN and just give it an animal that follows you but isn't really functionally different from a DoT. Puppetmaster could fit here, as could Beastmaster. But I want them to fix what they did to SMN first (or at least alongside the patch that introduces another pet class), I used to love it, but Shadowbringers killed it.

    Red Mage somewhat fills the battle mage role, but I would really enjoy one that's more melee oriented than ranged.

    The class from FFXI that I wished they translated over was Blue Mage, but they went with the FF5 iteration instead. Would have loved to have them be a melee job that mixed martial arts and monster spells rather than what we have. BLU is still fun, though, I just liked the FFXI version better...MUCH better.

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