1. #49721
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    The challenge in Castrum was never the fights. They're about the same difficulty as DR. The challenge in Castrum is simply getting into Castrum with a group larger than 20 people in the first place.

  2. #49722
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    The challenge in Castrum was never the fights. They're about the same difficulty as DR. The challenge in Castrum is simply getting into Castrum with a group larger than 20 people in the first place.
    I actually will disagree.

    In Castrum, the first and last fights had punishing elements which made it so the group would be punished if they didnt do things right, didnt kill things fast enough, didnt perform mechanics correctly. And it would result in a wipe of a group, and possible even harm the run because of the clock being low on time.

    In Delubrum, it really doesnt matter how many people die or miss mechanics...because there is no punishing players for messing up. There is no enrages, except for the rage building in your healer as they rez you for the ninth time. The doom mechanic is very mitigateable by the fact that you can just rez as many times as you want to. Compare it to Eureka (specifically Absolute Virtue), where there was safe guards against mass chain rezing by Dooming the healer when they did.

    To me, it just feels like a major downgrade because there is just nothing that stop mass rezzing to victory. Theres no real challenge outside of the mechanics (which you figure out after the first or second attempt). Especially if they expect you to grind DR for Relic. Making bosses health sponges doesnt mean harder content either.

  3. #49723
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    They didn't reveal Dancer last time until the very last trailer, 2 months before the launch, 5-6 months after the first trailer.
    My bad, I completely forgot they released the shadowbringers trailer in multiple versions.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  4. #49724
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    My bad, I completely forgot they released the shadowbringers trailer in multiple versions.
    I think a lot of people complaining about the teaser trailer forget this, same with Stormblood, whose first trailer only showed the monk fight on the statue and absolutely nothing else. Compared to that, the Endwalker teaser is downright crazy

  5. #49725
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Hmm... i see. But, as you point out FF does add new things as well. They don't just make a system the expansion revolves around.

    I honestly don't like it myself. Covenants for example, are a huge pain. I am forced into grinding anima to unlock my power and i am locked into my ability choices despite their worth unless i want to grind all over again. I make a power rather than a theme or cosmetic choice.
    If the system didn't revolve around player power it would be much more pleasant to engage with.

    I don't really like the way WoW does it, and there is my other point. Just cause the expansions don't revolve around a new system, doesn't mean it's a bad thing as WoW often misses the mark on it. It's preferable to experiment without forcing the player (eureka, bozja). That is how you reach at fun.
    I find confort in knowing FF isn't gonna screw me over with some power system they decided to make up for every expansion.
    It doesnt have to be a power system and you re not right in assuming that I have a WoW players bias. I quit WoW back in ARR because FFXIV drew me more as a game for many many reasons. I EXCLUSIVELY played FFXIV all the way until clearing shiva savage in shadowbringers. My steam has a good 5k hours on the game. I absolutely love the game and the core of the game and have raided every tier since then.
    But there is a problem. Its gotten to the point where like I said every single expansion is exactly the same type of content but with even less stuff added to this content and some content being cut entirely.
    I m not asking them to reinvent the wheel but they have to add new systems to the game. For example dungeons have been a snoozefest since forever. As a tank player, running a dungeon is basically pulling all the mobs from one end to the next, the WHM spams holy to stunlock em, I hallowed ground on the next pull and we finish the dungeon in 10 minutes. Why not do something exciting with dungeons? Make challenging versions of dungeons that reward cosmetic gear.
    They added ultimate raids for the raiding crowd only to cut it down entirely in shadowbringers with only 1 ultimate.
    All of the "new" content they add is basically content that is consumed in5 minute intervals or in the case of the new island a new afk hub.
    They havent even upped the number of raid bosses in a raid or something akin to that.
    Back in ARR and HW the number one thing I kept thinking while playing is "this game is fucking amazing! imagine what this game will have in 6 years from now".
    Little did I know it would basically have the same exact things but reskinned.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I think he's talking about how WoW introduces new, experimental features and content every expansion.

    • MoP introduced Challenge Mode dungeons, Pet Battles, the Brawler's guild, hunter pet taming challenges, and Timeless Isle.
    • WoD introduced Garrisons (I stand by my opinion that the garrison system was in fact great. The problem was that there wasn't enough actual endgame content, leaving garrisons as virtually the only content left to do. So Garrisons became defacto endgame content when they weren't meant to be.)
    • Legion introduced the Mage Tower and Artifacts.
    • BFA introduced War Fronts and Island expeditions (I quite liked the Island Expeditions. I preferred leveling up my characters up to cap through it rather than slogging through the mediocre questlines).
    • Shadowlands introduced Torghast.


    In contrast, FFXIV doesn't really do that much new experimental content/features.

    • Heavensward introduced PotD and Diadem.
    • Stormblood introduced Eureka.
    • Shadowbringers introduced Trusts (technically already appeared before as squadrons).

    It seems that the only real new thing Endwalker is introducing is the Island Sanctuary.


    Part of the reason why I spend half of my time AFKing in the Gold Saucer is because of the really different content it offers. Triple Triad, Mahjong, and the jumping puzzle, and "If the Slice is Right" is really fun.

    - - - Updated - - -

    EDIT: I guess Shadowbringers also introduced Fishing Expeditions.
    This sums it up perfectly

  6. #49726
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattleya View Post
    I think a lot of people complaining about the teaser trailer forget this, same with Stormblood, whose first trailer only showed the monk fight on the statue and absolutely nothing else. Compared to that, the Endwalker teaser is downright crazy
    Well one of my points is not really adressed by it. As far as showing of combat goes the whole switching though classes in the Shadowbringers trailer was quite a new high and even sparring with Lyse was alot cooler than blocking one attack and seeing Alisaie fail at red mage again or the weird "sage" show-off from alphinaud. The later would have probably been better if they had gone more for the style they used in the class display, because my first reaction was that Alphinaud went a new form of mechanist..

    But as for the second class and context that will definitely be part of the next trailers then. I saw those trailers so many times, I completely forgot that there are the incomplete versions ^^;.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  7. #49727
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Yeah, i tried to search for leaked stuff and found nothing but that video, which is unimpressive cause we saw the city in cinematics and that is what it is. Just an asset.

    I am very curious to see what they come up with. If it's just a garlean continent i would be disappointed. I like it when they blindside us like shadowbringers. I would love a time travel to the end days and to meet the peoples and the actual reason for the end days. Also, to reveal the roots of the twists wecame to find out.


    As for jobs, i really am hoping for a Chemist battle job. Based on FFT and X-2. With a musket as weapon to shoot concotions from. Healer ofc.

    For dps job, my preference would go first to make Blue mage a normal job. After that Geomancer is a good one. I liked the Necromancer on one of the latest dungeons.
    Beastmaster worries me. Pet AI's are always a problem.

    If it's a time travel expansion, it really needs time mage somehow though.
    great post agreed

  8. #49728
    Quote Originally Posted by TidalConflux View Post
    I actually will disagree.

    In Castrum, the first and last fights had punishing elements which made it so the group would be punished if they didnt do things right, didnt kill things fast enough, didnt perform mechanics correctly. And it would result in a wipe of a group, and possible even harm the run because of the clock being low on time.

    In Delubrum, it really doesnt matter how many people die or miss mechanics...because there is no punishing players for messing up. There is no enrages, except for the rage building in your healer as they rez you for the ninth time. The doom mechanic is very mitigateable by the fact that you can just rez as many times as you want to. Compare it to Eureka (specifically Absolute Virtue), where there was safe guards against mass chain rezing by Dooming the healer when they did.

    To me, it just feels like a major downgrade because there is just nothing that stop mass rezzing to victory. Theres no real challenge outside of the mechanics (which you figure out after the first or second attempt). Especially if they expect you to grind DR for Relic. Making bosses health sponges doesnt mean harder content either.
    That's DR savage. That's the difficulty you want.

  9. #49729
    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    It doesnt have to be a power system and you re not right in assuming that I have a WoW players bias. I quit WoW back in ARR because FFXIV drew me more as a game for many many reasons. I EXCLUSIVELY played FFXIV all the way until clearing shiva savage in shadowbringers. My steam has a good 5k hours on the game. I absolutely love the game and the core of the game and have raided every tier since then.
    But there is a problem. Its gotten to the point where like I said every single expansion is exactly the same type of content but with even less stuff added to this content and some content being cut entirely.
    I m not asking them to reinvent the wheel but they have to add new systems to the game. For example dungeons have been a snoozefest since forever. As a tank player, running a dungeon is basically pulling all the mobs from one end to the next, the WHM spams holy to stunlock em, I hallowed ground on the next pull and we finish the dungeon in 10 minutes. Why not do something exciting with dungeons? Make challenging versions of dungeons that reward cosmetic gear.
    They added ultimate raids for the raiding crowd only to cut it down entirely in shadowbringers with only 1 ultimate.
    All of the "new" content they add is basically content that is consumed in5 minute intervals or in the case of the new island a new afk hub.
    They havent even upped the number of raid bosses in a raid or something akin to that.
    Back in ARR and HW the number one thing I kept thinking while playing is "this game is fucking amazing! imagine what this game will have in 6 years from now".
    Little did I know it would basically have the same exact things but reskinned.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This sums it up perfectly
    I understand that it may be fatigue since i played ARR but was unimpressed and only returmed in ShB. So, i guess it is not affecting me in the same way wethers it does you.

    I totally would like to see a mythic+ system in FF. Yoshida has been asked about it and it's a popular request in the community. He said they didn't have the resources or would have to cut something and honestly, i would be ok with them cutting on Eureka/bozja cause that content uses up a ton of resources and is mostly ignored after a few weeks.

    But, it is what it is. Playing different mmo's, i learned that none of them is perfect. They all have strong points and weak points and don't really seem keen on copying each other for some reason. FF is no exception. Atm i play both WoW and FF and they scratch different hitches. One is good at some things and one at others.
    Would be good if they tried to learn from each other more though.

  10. #49730
    Quote Originally Posted by Thestrawman View Post
    That's DR savage. That's the difficulty you want.
    And I've done it. I am just very disappointed that the DR Normal didnt have a modicum of punishment outside of Boss 3's final phase. Like why doesnt the Queen have any sort of punishment mechanic if too many people die? We have seen it before in normal duties.

    It is a tad insulting to the more casual playerbase that DR normal is coddling.

  11. #49731
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattleya View Post
    This applies to the entire genre really. There are three types of MMORPG: Those that died, those that managed to find success and keep doing what made them successful without innovation, and those that are stuck in crowdfunding hell
    While certainly true, FF14 is by and far the biggest offender in the genre of the games that actually matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I don't like the atitude of sitting in a chair and saying "re-invent the wheel! Surprise me!" when the wheel clearly gets everyone moving already.
    Maybe the wheel in this case isn't perfect, but it's the best we have come up with so far. It works. Don't diss it. Many players enjoy it and sitting on the high chair and shouting "surprise me! Give me what i don't know if i want!" is a tall and risky order. Not that they should stop trying, but lets not diss what works too much.
    I know what I want:

    • More active/dynamic combat - That means less rigid rotations, more interaction inside job kits (i.e. decision flows), procs, less binary oGCDs, and options for faster GCD gameplay (SkS is not that).
    • Better Netcode - Nuff said.
    • Glamour system overhaul - You have such nice gear and a cool dye system, but metal doesn't dye well at all and you're limited to one dye channel.
    • More raid bosses in a raid - 4 bosses isn't really good. I also don't think they need to design every single savage fight to be 8-14 minutes long. Some of my favorite fights were the Kefka/ExDeath gate keeper fights. High impact 4 and a half minute fights with rapid mechanics.
    • More dynamic raid design - Raid design is very rigid. Once I know a fight I catch myself dozing off sometimes because my muscle memory takes over.

    I recognize that most people may not like what I like, but there's compromise in there.

    Hmm... i see. But, as you point out FF does add new things as well. They don't just make a system the expansion revolves around.

    I honestly don't like it myself. Covenants for example, are a huge pain. I am forced into grinding anima to unlock my power and i am locked into my ability choices despite their worth unless i want to grind all over again. I make a power rather than a theme or cosmetic choice.
    If the system didn't revolve around player power it would be much more pleasant to engage with.

    I don't really like the way WoW does it, and there is my other point. Just cause the expansions don't revolve around a new system, doesn't mean it's a bad thing as WoW often misses the mark on it. It's preferable to experiment without forcing the player (eureka, bozja). That is how you reach at fun.
    I find confort in knowing FF isn't gonna screw me over with some power system they decided to make up for every expansion.
    Eureka and Bozja are not my penultimate idea of fun. They're WILDLY polarizing content types and honestly I can't stand them for how grind heavy they are.

    Grinding? I play maybe cumulatively 3 hours a week and I put up 85%+ logs, 99% if you go by ilvl. I do one M+ and some raiding as a casual tag a long a week and the maw weeklies. I don't have to grind a damn thing in this game and it's great!

    I understand that it may be fatigue since i played ARR but was unimpressed and only returmed in ShB. So, i guess it is not affecting me in the same way wethers it does you.

    I totally would like to see a mythic+ system in FF. Yoshida has been asked about it and it's a popular request in the community. He said they didn't have the resources or would have to cut something and honestly, i would be ok with them cutting on Eureka/bozja cause that content uses up a ton of resources and is mostly ignored after a few weeks.

    But, it is what it is. Playing different mmo's, i learned that none of them is perfect. They all have strong points and weak points and don't really seem keen on copying each other for some reason. FF is no exception. Atm i play both WoW and FF and they scratch different hitches. One is good at some things and one at others.
    Would be good if they tried to learn from each other more though.
    All great points here though.

  12. #49732
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I don't like the atitude of sitting in a chair and saying "re-invent the wheel! Surprise me!" when the wheel clearly gets everyone moving already. Maybe the wheel in this case isn't perfect, but it's the best we have come up with so far. It works. Don't diss it. Many players enjoy it and sitting on the high chair and shouting "surprise me! Give me what i don't know if i want!" is a tall and risky order. Not that they should stop trying, but lets not diss what works too much.
    People say this ironically, but honestly that's what players are paying for. Good design, ideas, and concepts that any Tom, Dick and Harry couldn't think of off the top of their heads.

    Either that or players are all sitting around bemoaning the genre being "stale" and "the same as always" while also saying that the wheel is fine and not to change anything up.

  13. #49733
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TidalConflux View Post
    I actually will disagree.either.
    Castum is the opposite of challenging.

    Challenging means: you can turn the boat around with ample skill. In Castrum one tiny group decided success/failure on the last boss. Jack shit you can do about it if they can't seem to get it right.

    1st boss is more of a coordination game: split the raid up properly and the get one party to STOP doing crap until the other catches up.

    Castrum feels very much like DR normal in terms of actual difficulty, most mechanics are very obvious and straight forward. Oh and you can also chain-rez bosses you just have less time to do so.

  14. #49734
    Quote Originally Posted by TidalConflux View Post
    It is a tad insulting to the more casual playerbase that DR normal is coddling.
    I don't find it insulting. I just wanted to do it for the quest completion. I have no interest in doing it again for the challenge. With the lost mettle and rewards being lack luster, there's no compelling reason for me to throw myself at the fights when my success rate is somewhat dependent on the competency of 20+ other players.

    They put in the Savage mode for those who actually want a challenge so I'm OK with (and actually prefer) the Normal version that's required to finish the quest being easy, because the competency of the average player at any given time is...questionable.

  15. #49735
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    With the lost mettle
    People still whine about that?
    Mettle has 0 uses past getting to 700K once to unlock savage.

  16. #49736
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    People still whine about that?
    Mettle has 0 uses past getting to 700K once to unlock savage.
    Getting to rank 15 in the first place is pretty hard, so people are incentivized NOT to run DR until they hit rank 15.

  17. #49737
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I understand that it may be fatigue since i played ARR but was unimpressed and only returmed in ShB. So, i guess it is not affecting me in the same way wethers it does you.

    I totally would like to see a mythic+ system in FF. Yoshida has been asked about it and it's a popular request in the community. He said they didn't have the resources or would have to cut something and honestly, i would be ok with them cutting on Eureka/bozja cause that content uses up a ton of resources and is mostly ignored after a few weeks.

    But, it is what it is. Playing different mmo's, i learned that none of them is perfect. They all have strong points and weak points and don't really seem keen on copying each other for some reason. FF is no exception. Atm i play both WoW and FF and they scratch different hitches. One is good at some things and one at others.
    Would be good if they tried to learn from each other more though.
    Frankly I'd be happy if they just tuned level cap versions of leveling dungeons. It was so tiresome running the same two dungeons for 3-6 months when all the dungeons I leveled up through were basically never seen again upon reaching the cap.

  18. #49738
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    People still whine about that?
    Mettle has 0 uses past getting to 700K once to unlock savage.
    I'm not capped on Rank yet, so...yeah. Losing mettle sucks before you're capped.

    Otherwise you're right, it has no bearing on anything.

  19. #49739
    spent the weekend doing 51 old alliance raids for my ShB relic. still can't believe this is what the community wanted over eureka.

  20. #49740
    Over 9000! Graeham's Avatar
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    I ran the new raid for the third time for the weekly quest. It went smoothly even though seven people dropped out right at the start. It took a bit longer to defeat the bosses but there were minimal deaths. I can't wait to get a hold of the tank set.

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