1. #49781
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    How do you even know they are using damage meters. I see no one *ever* chatting about DPS in game.
    When people complain about others not doing enough dps and or not using enough of a certain skill, they surely didn't just casually sift through the combat log themselves. I've had to "regularily"* block kick votes of newbies because some selfproclaimed gift to god thought others were not worthy of them.

    Edit: * well let's say I've encountered it around 5-10% of my runs which was probably in the lower tripple digits when I was done. That may not seem like alot, but going by pure statistics if you encounter this a couple of times during leveling (one job) it certainly doesn't leave a good impression of the oh so great community. And that is not even including the google translate concilliation between french people that speak absolutely no other language than french and others, who held up more than a couple of runs.
    Last edited by Haidaes; 2021-02-12 at 01:09 PM.
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  2. #49782
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    SNIP

    The current paradigm is too restrictive to allow for complex failure conditions. That really needs to change first if the content is to follow.
    We're in agreement completely here.

    The only time I've been in an M+ that simply wasn't completable was that time I tried a +19 De Other Side on Tyranical and we genuinely didn't have enough DPS to kill Hakkar. We used all our Pridefuls on him and spent a while trying different tactics, but at best got him to about 20% before he was casting Blood Shield faster than we could break it. It's not even like people were upset about it, the general attitude was "We'll come back with more gear and try again". In FF14 if the group wipes 2-3 times people just up and leave in a huff, even if the content is perfectly doable. People just expect you to already know the tactics before you set foot in the content, which is beyond unrealistic.
    To be fair, and I've said this countless times when you're playing in that field (i.e. the upper elite field) people are very knowledgeable and understanding, not toxic. This applies to both games. When I was strictly pugging savages, I'd generally clear 2-3 floors first week. This basically gives you a pass into ANY group in the first month. They don't even need logs at this point (regardless of them being solid) because people know you're good and know that occasionally people make mistakes and are open to criticism/help.

    If you're joining a +19 key and gave the gear for it, your IO really is relatively irrelevant (barring mythic raids who dont do M+ at all, but thats semi rare) and thus I would expect people to be able to say, damn everyones sustaining 5k+ dps, and we still can't clear this, gotta come back later. gg nice try guys.

    Don't let the scare stories fool you, its harder than you think to get a warning in FF14. I've been abducted and spent more time in GM Jail than most and I've always gotten off with little more than a slap on the wrist.

    Sure, I'm not actively hostile towards other players, but I will gladly call out and kick people who are leeching, not contributing to the group, or are actively holding us back. That doesn't always make me popular as I'm sure you can imagine. As of my last stay in GM Jail I've been reported almost 4 times as much as the average player without any penalties or negative consequences beyond a quick chat with a GM.
    I've NEVER been to GM Jail, but I've openly removed people from groups and told them why (low dps). I've told people their logs weren't good enough to join my parties, and I've said things like if you don't know both sides of a fight (i.e. main tank/off tank roles) then you're not ready for a clear fight. You should know both sides to be flexible. I'm not usually a dick, just openly honest.

    The forums on the other hand. Still permanently banned, but it was worth it. HAD to correct that guy. no 6th average percentile IN NORMAL PLD should ever be writing a guide on the OF about how to play. Not only was it blatantly inaccurate, like comically so, but his logs had his average CPM of 6 when it should have been like 27. He was literally pushing a button once every 10s...

    I had to take one for the team for that.

  3. #49783
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    I'm currently at 73 minutes as Warrior in a queue for the crystal tower raids. This is suffering.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    I see his problem, he's queueing as tank. Tank queues for 24mans are usually trash, healer/dps are gonna be the better choices for queueing.

    That makes no sense. I'm playing as a DRK and all 15 times I got in in under 5 mins.

  4. #49784
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    To be honest, I've found the FF14 community to be a lot harsher for pugging with than WoW.
    Yeah, particularly in current content.

    The current paradigm is too restrictive to allow for complex failure conditions. That really needs to change first if the content is to follow.
    This is my biggest issue with encounter design in FFXIV.

    I'm not actively hostile towards other players, but I will gladly call out and kick people who are leeching, not contributing to the group, or are actively holding us back.
    That was me as well. I don't even bother with most grouped content anymore, outside of pugging old raids for mount drops.
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  5. #49785
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    That makes no sense. I'm playing as a DRK and all 15 times I got in in under 5 mins.
    I got them all in about 8 hours, almost 4 of which was queueing.
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  6. #49786
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    I'm amazed you can even remember something so far back in the past.
    Well it's extremely rare that I got kicked from a dungeon, so that's probably why it stuck.

  7. #49787
    I finished 1 weapon so far. Not a fan of how long delubrum runs take. Hardly anyone uses the lost actions so it takes probably twice as long as it should.

  8. #49788
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    I'm still at the Void Ark stage ._.

  9. #49789
    Over 9000! Graeham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Well it's extremely rare that I got kicked from a dungeon, so that's probably why it stuck.
    I've only been kicked a couple of times as well. Once for a disconnect and once because someone got salty that I won a loot roll.

  10. #49790
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    To be fair, and I've said this countless times when you're playing in that field (i.e. the upper elite field) people are very knowledgeable and understanding, not toxic. This applies to both games. When I was strictly pugging savages, I'd generally clear 2-3 floors first week. This basically gives you a pass into ANY group in the first month. They don't even need logs at this point (regardless of them being solid) because people know you're good and know that occasionally people make mistakes and are open to criticism/help.

    If you're joining a +19 key and gave the gear for it, your IO really is relatively irrelevant (barring mythic raids who dont do M+ at all, but thats semi rare) and thus I would expect people to be able to say, damn everyones sustaining 5k+ dps, and we still can't clear this, gotta come back later. gg nice try guys.
    This has, largely, been my experience too - People just accept that mistakes happen. People are happy to go with suggestions if you have them, listen to feedback and work together to clear content. That goes both ways, you need to own your mistakes too and take feedback from others. Anyone with an easily bruised ego tends to be weeded out pretty quickly.

    Theres almost always been the unwritten rule that the people who are there deserve to be there. The WoW guild I'm in currently doesn't even bother with trials anymore, if you're a good player who fits with the guild then you get a spot. Easy as that. Admittedly we're far from the best guild out there, but we have consistently cleared Mythic Raids when they were relevent content.

    At least in WoW anyway, I've not really done much Savage content in FF14 due to time constraints. All of my FF14 raiding has been pugged on a very ad-hoc basis so I can't really comment on what that community is like. I've not seen anything that's been too different from WoW, aside from the requirements being significantly higher. The general attitude in FF14 is "We're going to one shot this", where when I pug in WoW it's generally "We're going to complete this even if we wipe a couple of times along the way". Part of that is SL being relatively new and people still needing to learn all the ins and outs of a M+ run of course, but it's generally always been the case when you're pushing a high key that you accept theres a chance of failure. Not that it really matters, anything beyond a +15 is just for bragging rights anyway and most people treat it as such.

    As a general observation, the "toxic" parts of most games player base is in the upper-middle, where players are accomplished enough to have some skill and experience under their belt, but aren't good enough to make the move to the upper tiers. It's a here where players tend to get stuck, and they vent that frustration on others.

    The guys at the bottom know they're bad and don't care, they're having fun with it regardless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    I had to take one for the team for that.
    F

    It was worth it!

    Quote Originally Posted by World Peace View Post
    That was me as well. I don't even bother with most grouped content anymore, outside of pugging old raids for mount drops.
    I'll happily pug pretty much anything, usually as a Tank. I'm either very brave or very foolish and I'm not sure which.

  11. #49791
    Anyone know how many sundered Ascians are left? I wonder if they're really content to simply let Fanny do whatever he wants now that the paragons are gone or if there would be internal strife.

  12. #49792
    Quote Originally Posted by Merie View Post
    Anyone know how many sundered Ascians are left? I wonder if they're really content to simply let Fanny do whatever he wants now that the paragons are gone or if there would be internal strife.
    We know of two in total at the moment. One is on our side and Fandaniel. That'll probably be all that are left, since the story concerning them is wrapping up and the items required to make more are lost.

  13. #49793
    I'm kinda hyped for the new DPS class, seeing how they share loot with DRG.
    I hope it will be some kind of hammer-wielding DPS.

  14. #49794
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    I'm kinda hyped for the new DPS class, seeing how they share loot with DRG.
    I hope it will be some kind of hammer-wielding DPS.
    I'm thinking moon knight or something like that, wielding a scythe

  15. #49795
    Quote Originally Posted by Scathan View Post
    I'm thinking moon knight or something like that, wielding a scythe
    Ya, a scythe user is the rumor but in my opinion, Lancer has the polearm theme and Samurai has the moon theme covered to some degree.
    Anything goes but I think a 2h mace wielding DPS would really do the trick for me, although Warrior is very similar to that already... but it's a tank class.

    What I'd really dig is a 1h mace (-on-a-chain) + shield DPS with light magic assisted damage. Or maybe light AND void or something.

  16. #49796
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merie View Post
    Anyone know how many sundered Ascians are left? I wonder if they're really content to simply let Fanny do whatever he wants now that the paragons are gone or if there would be internal strife.
    It was just a little line but as far as I understand it, most sundered Ascians proved to be of little challenge when Thancred and co. engaged them.
    So it is possible that they may lay low or choose not to interfere any longer.

  17. #49797
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    It was just a little line but as far as I understand it, most sundered Ascians proved to be of little challenge when Thancred and co. engaged them.
    So it is possible that they may lay low or choose not to interfere any longer.
    I don't mean the flunky black mask ones, but the 13 convocation ones that aren't dead and aren't paragons.

  18. #49798
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merie View Post
    Anyone know how many sundered Ascians are left? I wonder if they're really content to simply let Fanny do whatever he wants now that the paragons are gone or if there would be internal strife.
    MSQ 5.4 spoilers
    Spoiler: 

    Most of the 13 Ascians are dead/seats vacant.

    • Lahabrea: his grief drove him to become detached and insane, permakilled by Thordan in 3.0.
    • Nabriales: was permakilled by the Scions in 2.5.
    • Igeyorhm: permakilled by the WoL in 3.0.
    • Emmerololth: permakilled by Sharlayans when the Isle of Val was teleported into the Lifestream during the ARR patches.
    • Emet-Selch: permakilled by the WoL and Scions in 5.0.
    • Elidibus: permakilled by the WoL in 5.3.
    • Mitron: Sacrificed himself in 5.4 for Loghrif.


    For the sundered Ascians, Elidibus and Emet-Selch could have found other shards to uplift and fill those seats, but we know that the FFXIV story in universe takes place over a small amount of time, and the unsundered were so busy there is pretty much no way that they would have the time to run their evil empires on the Source AND go to other worlds looking for another fragment to uplift. Nor does the story ever say seats are refilled during the story.

    IIRC there are only 5 Ascians left.

    • Fandaniel: gone rogue
    • Deudalaphon: status unknown
    • Pashtarot: status unknown
    • Halmarut: status unknown
    • Altima: status unknown


    With the unsundered dead, I'm guessing that the Ascians have broken down and the 5 survivors are waltzing off to do their own thing. Fandaniel appears to be the only Ascian left who is actively antagonizing the Scions. For all I know the other 4 could have gone back to blend into society, or are trying to mess with other worlds, but they're not stirring stuff up on the Source. The resurrect Zodiark plan is over.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Ya, a scythe user is the rumor but in my opinion, Lancer has the polearm theme and Samurai has the moon theme covered to some degree.
    There is some overlap between some classes.

    Samurai and Dragoon both have abilities with cherry blossoms VFX.
    Samurai and White Mage both have abilities with a blooming flower motif.
    Samurai and Astrologian both have abilities with a moon motif.
    Paladin and White Mage both have abilities that use a light aspected elemental magic spell.
    Ninja and Black Mage both have fire, ice, and thunder elemental magic spells.
    Dark Knight and Ninja both have abilities that deal shadow damage.

    A moon themed job is completely within the realm of possibility, but I'd associate a death themed scythe wielder with the underworld (which FFXIV literally has in the form of the Lifestream, literally located underneath the world, at the center of the planet), not the moon.

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  19. #49799
    Elemental Lord Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Ya, a scythe user is the rumor but in my opinion, Lancer has the polearm theme and Samurai has the moon theme covered to some degree.
    Anything goes but I think a 2h mace wielding DPS would really do the trick for me, although Warrior is very similar to that already... but it's a tank class.

    What I'd really dig is a 1h mace (-on-a-chain) + shield DPS with light magic assisted damage. Or maybe light AND void or something.
    Polearms and Scythes aren't the same thing though. Polesarms are piercing weapons and scythes are slashing weapons.

  20. #49800
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    MSQ 5.4 spoilers
    Spoiler: 

    Most of the 13 Ascians are dead/seats vacant.

    • Lahabrea: his grief drove him to become detached and insane, permakilled by Thordan in 3.0.
    • Nabriales: was permakilled by the Scions in 2.5.
    • Igeyorhm: permakilled by the WoL in 3.0.
    • Emmerololth: permakilled by Sharlayans when the Isle of Val was teleported into the Lifestream during the ARR patches.
    • Emet-Selch: permakilled by the WoL and Scions in 5.0.
    • Elidibus: permakilled by the WoL in 5.3.
    • Mitron: Sacrificed himself in 5.4 for Loghrif.


    For the sundered Ascians, Elidibus and Emet-Selch could have found other shards to uplift and fill those seats, but we know that the FFXIV story in universe takes place over a small amount of time, and the unsundered were so busy there is pretty much no way that they would have the time to run their evil empires on the Source AND go to other worlds looking for another fragment to uplift. Nor does the story ever say seats are refilled during the story.

    IIRC there are only 5 Ascians left.

    • Fandaniel: gone rogue
    • Deudalaphon: status unknown
    • Pashtarot: status unknown
    • Halmarut: status unknown
    • Altima: status unknown


    With the unsundered dead, I'm guessing that the Ascians have broken down and the 5 survivors are waltzing off to do their own thing. Fandaniel appears to be the only Ascian left who is actively antagonizing the Scions. For all I know the other 4 could have gone back to blend into society, or are trying to mess with other worlds, but they're not stirring stuff up on the Source. The resurrect Zodiark plan is over.
    But that's the thing, if Deudalaphon, Pashtarot, Halmarut and/or Altima are still on the source, Fannies schemes seem to stand in contrast to the idea of blending back into society if society is going to be wiped out by the second coming of the final days. So that leaves scheming on other worlds. But they know as well as fanny does from their last convocation meeting that Elidibus and Emet Selch are gone. And there is no reason for further scheming on other worlds to cause a rejoining if the source is about to be destroyed. If I'm a sundered ascian and I just want to retire or I want more rejoinings, it doesn't seem like I would have the luxury to sit idly by while fanny burns Eorzea. It's even possible that the Sound exists in some form in the core of all the other sundered worlds as well, making even them a risky bet for retirement.

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