1. #49881
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    WoL is just a big ol dummy ok?

    One of the problems with using the echo to justify "seeing" AoEs is trusts. None of the npcs have the echo and yet they dodge them just fine so. Echo may give us a bit of a leg up in reading that, but its not entirely the echo. It, imo, is also battle instincts.
    Not discounting their battle instincts, but I think that has much more to do with game mechanics and how stupid or awful it would be to have a group of NPCs that stood in everything and got hit by enemy AoE's constantly than it does with any actual character growth/ ability. I mean, they adjust to mechanics faster and more smoothly than the WoL, that shouldn't really be all that believable in context given OUR battle experience and instincts.

  2. #49882
    Scarab Lord Kaelwryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Not discounting their battle instincts, but I think that has much more to do with game mechanics and how stupid or awful it would be to have a group of NPCs that stood in everything and got hit by enemy AoE's constantly than it does with any actual character growth/ ability. I mean, they adjust to mechanics faster and more smoothly than the WoL, that shouldn't really be all that believable in context given OUR battle experience and instincts.
    You mean like npcs in most solo duties? Personally i am of the opinion that aoe markers themselves are strictly a game play mechanic and not a lore thing at all.

  3. #49883
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    You mean like npcs in most solo duties? Personally i am of the opinion that aoe markers themselves are strictly a game play mechanic and not a lore thing at all.
    The only reason it has a lore implication at this point is because of what happened with Fordola, otherwise I'd be right there thinking it's nothing but a game mechanic. But here we are, with an in-game lore rationale for it....along with several examples of NPCs that don't have the Echo also being able to do it. I know, it's weird. Don't think about it too hard, lol, it just makes things more complicated than they need to be and IMO doesn't affect the enjoyment you can get out of it so...whatever.

  4. #49884
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    If the Echo allowed you to canonically dodge AoEs, it would have been certainly been made clear in the game. People would have commented on "hey, you're inexplicably dodging attacks" or Minfillia would have said so when she first explained what your power was.

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    It's also notable that

    5.4 and Bozja spoilers
    Spoiler: 

    of the three Resonant users thus far, only Fordola has the combat precognition ability. The other two Resonant users do not appear to have that ability. Misija could see visions of the future, but had no combat precognition. And IIRC Zenos didn't get that either, and you don't use Urianger's device against him to counteract it. In fact, I'm not even sure what Zenos even got out of the Resonant besides being able to control Primals, as body hopping and darkness teleportation is more indicative of Ascian powers, and Fandaniel insinuates that is because either Zenos was a reincarnated Amaurotine all along, or that Emet-Selch had done something to Zenos' soul.

    At the end of 5.0, when Zenos is about to kill his father, his eyes flash like when Fordola activated her Resonant pre-cognition ability, but Zenos didn't use any apparent superpowers when killing Varis. So was that just a stylistic choice/fancy camera effects for drama? (the dev team admitted that Thordan looking up at the WoL at the end of HW 3.0 was the same thing - stylistic). The only thing I can think of is that maybe the Resonant is what allowed Zenos to channel aether into his blade after it was broken (Zenos stabs Varis. Varis breaks Zenos' sword. Zenos' eyes flash, and now red aether extends the broken blade to its normal length). But, again, this might not be related to the Resonant, but to Zenos' true nature... whatever it is.






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    They probably just weren't thinking too much about trying to be consistent with the Echo and the Resonant at the time Stormblood 4.0 was being written. The Echo just wasn't super important to the narrative back then like it is now. It was just a plot device to justify whatever they wanted. It wasn't until Shadowbringers when the metaphysics of the soul took center stage of the narrative that the Echo became important and the writers started trying to have it all make sense. We know that they didn't come up with the Ascian backstory until after 4.0 had released, and they didn't start writing the Shadowbringers patches until after 5.0 released, which was when they would have been hammering out the specifics around current lore around the Echo. Which obviously hadn't been hammered out when Stormblood was being written.
    Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss; 2021-03-02 at 01:41 AM.

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  5. #49885
    It's possible the echo is similar to being a newtype in gundam, where you are given a heightened reaction time. It can be a definite advantage in dodging attacks compared to most, but is by no means a 100% guarantee. Not to mention sometimes you can't always avoid an attack just because you see it coming. The speed of your senses may outstrip the speed of your body to maneuver around it.
    Last edited by Merie; 2021-03-02 at 02:47 AM.

  6. #49886
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I mean, they adjust to mechanics faster and more smoothly than the WoL, that shouldn't really be all that believable in context given OUR battle experience and instincts.
    No they don't. I have seen trust buddies gimp countless of times, even die.
    Especially Urianger loves to keel over on the first boss in ShB.

    Still, you don't need the echo to see where the enemy is aiming crap. Two eyes and a working brain are enough, most of the time. Keep in mind that the scions have about as much battle experience as we do.

  7. #49887
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    No they don't. I have seen trust buddies gimp countless of times, even die.
    Especially Urianger loves to keel over on the first boss in ShB.

    Still, you don't need the echo to see where the enemy is aiming crap. Two eyes and a working brain are enough, most of the time. Keep in mind that the scions have about as much battle experience as we do.
    In my experience, aside from the unavoidable stuff, the only times any of the NPCs in Trusts have been significantly damaged or killed has been when I've screwed up and dropped an AoE on them because I wasn't paying attention to mechanics, or pulled way more trash than I'm supposed to and the NPC healer couldn't keep up with the incoming damage. Otherwise, when a boss is dropping stuff, they always know where to go and go there almost before the boss even starts casting. For most of the Shadowbringers dungeons I honestly just watched where my Trust NPCs were going and learned the fights and never had any issues.

    I also didn't say you needed the Echo, was only pointing out what happened with Fordola and how she got trounced by Lyse before she got the Echo and after she got it was able to easily dodge and avoid her and that the Echo obviously had something to do with that and is a lore substantiated reason why we the WoL can "see" the enemy AoEs.

  8. #49888
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    In my experience, aside from the unavoidable stuff, the only times any of the NPCs in Trusts have been significantly damaged or killed has been when I've screwed up and dropped an AoE on them because I wasn't paying attention to mechanics, or pulled way more trash than I'm supposed to and the NPC healer couldn't keep up with the incoming damage. Otherwise, when a boss is dropping stuff, they always know where to go and go there almost before the boss even starts casting. For most of the Shadowbringers dungeons I honestly just watched where my Trust NPCs were going and learned the fights and never had any issues.
    Same for the most part, though there was the one time I ran Grand Cosmos with Urianger and he died to mortal flame. I think what happened was that I took the furniture closest to him and he decided "well, guess I'll die instead of running to other furniture"

  9. #49889
    I got a question concerning the New Game+ feature. On my Miqo'te, I have classes at less than lvl 50 and would like to get them caught up to lvl 50, but I am at a loss for how to go about doing this.

    Does New Game+ help level other jobs? And can I initiate it without tossing out progress I have made on the MSQ?

  10. #49890
    Scarab Lord Kaelwryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RampageBW1 View Post
    I got a question concerning the New Game+ feature. On my Miqo'te, I have classes at less than lvl 50 and would like to get them caught up to lvl 50, but I am at a loss for how to go about doing this.

    Does New Game+ help level other jobs? And can I initiate it without tossing out progress I have made on the MSQ?
    NG+ doesn't offer any rewards, its just for replaying for the story.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...bs_1_to_70_in/ for leveling alt jobs. for 70+, throw in pixie dailies, bozja, dungeons (either with real people or trusts).
    Last edited by Kaelwryn; 2021-03-03 at 06:06 AM.

  11. #49891
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    NG+ doesn't offer any rewards, its just for replaying for the story.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...bs_1_to_70_in/ for leveling alt jobs. for 70+, throw in pixie dailies, bozja, dungeons (either with real people or trusts).
    Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

  12. #49892
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cattleya View Post
    Same for the most part, though there was the one time I ran Grand Cosmos with Urianger and he died to mortal flame. I think what happened was that I took the furniture closest to him and he decided "well, guess I'll die instead of running to other furniture"
    Guess you roasted his favorite sofa and he no longer saw any point in going on with life w/o his sofa.

  13. #49893
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    Damn the FFXIV reddit really does not like you thinking critically about that game. I made a thread about how FFXIV needs a proper pet class like the Hunter in WoW and I got hella downvoted...

    It was even worse when I asked whether FFXIV should think about doing an engine overhaul or in 5 or so years moving on to FF17 or something. This one was more confusing to me because it was more of a question rather than a strong assertion.

  14. #49894
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    I stay away from reddit for that reason. The upvote system, by its very nature, creates an echo chamber. The most popular opinion at the time of the subreddit's creation - that is, the opinion of the people who founded the subreddit - becomes dominant opinion. Other voices are eventually choked out as their posts fall to the bottom and never read, and then those people figure "why bother posting at all then?" and consequently stop posting. And then you have the people who feel a subconscious need to chase after that reddit karma/dopamine hit from getting upvotes/getting replies (because their opinion was popular enough/upvoted enough to be near the top and so thus people reply to them), which means they try to conform to the popular sentiment.

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  15. #49895
    But to be fair, any class can summon the Grand Company Chocobo to fight by his or her side. Although, I can see why this would not be ideal for some people.

  16. #49896
    Elemental Lord Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RampageBW1 View Post
    But to be fair, any class can summon the Grand Company Chocobo to fight by his or her side. Although, I can see why this would not be ideal for some people.
    True, but most of the time you're in instanced content where you can't summon the Chocobo. I do like the Chocobo system though, just wish you could bring it along on more adventures.

  17. #49897
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    Damn the FFXIV reddit really does not like you thinking critically about that game. I made a thread about how FFXIV needs a proper pet class like the Hunter in WoW and I got hella downvoted...
    Technically SMN already is a pet class.
    While not as dependent on it as a BM hunter, you do feel the impact if you neglect it's abilities.

    Personally I am not a fan of XIVs pet-AI and they would need to fix that first.

    As for the engine overhaul: the only thing I want overhauled is the shitty netcode. It pisses me off to no end when I do everything right on my screen and the server thinks "NOOPE. Stuff happened a second before you could see it so you stood in the crap. Haha. /Trollface"

  18. #49898
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Technically SMN already is a pet class.
    While not as dependent on it as a BM hunter, you do feel the impact if you neglect it's abilities.
    It really doesn't feel like a pet class though, not anymore. It feels more like changing stances now than changing pets.

    Personally I am not a fan of XIVs pet-AI and they would need to fix that first.
    Not sure if I agree or not, more explanation below.

    As for the engine overhaul: the only thing I want overhauled is the shitty netcode. It pisses me off to no end when I do everything right on my screen and the server thinks "NOOPE. Stuff happened a second before you could see it so you stood in the crap. Haha. /Trollface"
    Agreed as well. I think the netcode has something to do with why pets don't really work well, the delays in inputs and responses make them act weird, I never really felt the AI was "off" because they always went where I told them to and attacked what I was attacking, but more that pets just felt weird in general because of the delays in their responses, using abilities on enemies that weren't there anymore, and stuff like that.

  19. #49899
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    but more that pets just felt weird in general because of the delays in their responses, using abilities on enemies that weren't there anymore, and stuff like that.
    Yeah that's the main complaint of my SMN buddy too. The pet does the attack when it is in the mood and not her.

  20. #49900
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    One thing I particularly loathe about the FFXIV Reddit - and FFXIV community as a whole - is the lack of variety in what is posted and fawned over. All too often someone will post brilliant art of a male character and it'll be downvoted, but the skimpiest and trashiest art of almost any female character will be praised to the heavens.

    Twitter has its own share of problems where the FFXIV community is concerned but I'll give it points for having much more variety on that front.

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