1. #50541
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    4,959
    Unless you're doing savage content you might as well just use things on CD.

    On my DRK I save MP for the blackest night because it doesn't take away from your damage anyways, and use it basically on CD. I'm pretty geared so I only do that if I pull more than 1 pack because there's a pretty high chance if I pull just one pack that the mob pack won't take away 25% of my health in 7 seconds (should give people a pretty good idea of how much damage trash packs can do). Some of that depends on trash cause some does hit harder than others, and while I'm not sure what default auto attacks are in FF, you can waste use of defensives if you happen to pop one during a long wind up ground attack that bosses/trash can use.

    A big thing you have to get use to which is probably the most frustrating thing about the game is the inherent delay on AoE cones and popping defensives in the game. It's either designed this way on purpose and not a huge deal once you realize what you're dealing with, but coming from something like WoW is a hard adjustment. In WoW you can leave cones at the very last micro second, or pop defensives at the last micro second and not get hit. Raid leading over the years and hearing people saying they got "clipped" is the most frustrating excuse in the world because they were just fucking slow. In FF if you try to game pressing defensives in that fashion you will always get hit for the full amount, and the same goes for AoE cones, even if you visibly have left them in the last 0.5 second. I realize this might be a 'get good' statement from some people, and of course you can just change your habits (which is what you have to do), but it still feels awful.

    From all of the things I've done as a tank you can literally just use defensives whenever though. The attack speed slow, reprisal and rampart are all things you can cycle in, while additionally using your class based mitigation as well. There's not much reason to have it sitting on CD, and contrary to popular belief it's how you're suppose to pull trash in WoW anyways by cycling defensive CDs. It allows healers to DPS and/or allows you to pull bigger anyway. If you're looking at it from a boss perspective (unless we're talking savage content), if you're appropriately geared and don't have vulnerability stacks you don't really have to use defensives at all for the majority of dungeon bosses, trials or raid encounters. Should you? Of course, especially for all the reasons listed prior.

    There's no doubt when you're actually doing hard content or trying to speed through dungeons that spreading out CDs and using them intelligently is pretty important. I think the notion of using defensive CDs so that healers can top other people off (if they made mistakes), or to just DPS is lost on a lot of people (in both WoW and FF). No reason to sit on defensives, and I'd argue that 90% of the time just rotating between them all without thinking will make your experience for both you and the people you play with easier anyways. Lots of tanks (and healers/DPS) will just sit on defensive CDS (or just be unaware they exist, especially for DPS) and just save them for "oh shit" moments, going an entire raid, dungeon, etc without ever popping them once. You can take avoidable damage a lot of the time if you actually pop defensive CDs as a DPS, the caveat here being that you know it won't be needed and you can survive upcoming attacks.

    The GCD is long enough that most ranged attacks are pretty worthless to use. The potency is really low, and unless you're prevented from physically attacking for a long period of time, they aren't all that useful to press. Most jobs when taken off a boss for a few seconds are in the middle of a combo, which both makes the next attack hit more and generally generate some sort of resource. I'm no math wizard, but I'd assume that the difference of sneaking in some ranged attacks from a damage perspective is either a DPS loss, or barely positive in most situations.

  2. #50542
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Texas, US
    Posts
    489
    After 202 hours of playing it and making it well in the story of Stormblood, I Quit, Like the story had so much filter at that point and complete static, Didn't enjoy my class anymore. Didn't enjoy being force to run group content to process and maybe it is better just watch the story on YouTube, like noting really change it's the same for everyone no matter what you do, maybe one line or 2 are different but everything else is the same.... lucky I got the game on sale!

  3. #50543
    Quote Originally Posted by |Dexter| View Post
    like noting really change it's the same for everyone no matter what you do, maybe one line or 2 are different but everything else is the same
    There's lots of character developement in SHB. You should finish that atleast. The story is really good in that one. Also, for the dungeons in SHB you don't need to run it with players anymore.

  4. #50544
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Also, for the dungeons in SHB you don't need to run it with players anymore.
    You'll still need to do 8 player trials.

  5. #50545
    I must admit I enjoyed heavensward story a lot more than stormblood. In stormblood the plot armor of two antagonists got waaaaaaaaaaay to thick. Also some cutscenes had way too much emotions attached to them to the point it became cringe AF.

    That said, still 1000x better than anything wow had.

    I've made the comparison once:
    If we put XIV story at ~ level of Tolkiens LOTR, wow story would be a dishwasher manual.


    Disclaimer for mmoc: The IF is there, which means if you think xiv story is way worse than lotr, wow story be a clothes tag.
    Ship has been abandoned.
    ---

    NextUI for XIV


  6. #50546
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Twilight Town
    Posts
    9,175
    I think I'm in the minority who actually preferred Stormblood to Heavensward. I like them both quite a bit and actually I'm currently doing all the side quests in the game and I think the side quests do a good job of addressing the tensions between the people of Ishgard that the MSQ wasn't able to do. However, Stormblood feels like a much more personal story that delves deeper into it's characters, whereas Heavensward feels like an epic classic fantasy adventure.

    I don't really like Xenos at all and I'm concerned that he'll bring Endwalker down for me, but I really liked Yotsuyu and Fordola as antagonists.

    Shadowbringers is really on a whole different level though. I really think it's one of the best stories in fiction. Everything from the 70-80 MSQ up to 5.3 is incredible.

  7. #50547
    Quote Originally Posted by |Dexter| View Post
    After 202 hours of playing it and making it well in the story of Stormblood, I Quit, Like the story had so much filter at that point and complete static, Didn't enjoy my class anymore. Didn't enjoy being force to run group content to process and maybe it is better just watch the story on YouTube, like noting really change it's the same for everyone no matter what you do, maybe one line or 2 are different but everything else is the same.... lucky I got the game on sale!
    Honestly I think the problem is us. I am enjoying the storylines in FFXIV very much. That said there are bits that get boring. During these times I take a break for a few days or a week and play something else. You have to HAVE TO, have a backup for your downtime. You can't put all your energy into any one game for all your enjoyment because that's too much for any one game to live up to nowadays. Years ago it was different because there was little else to compare to so it was all good. Now there are so many other options our minds tend to wander easily.
    I use the comparison of steak and lobster. I love to eat a juicy steak and succulent lobster tails. But if you gave them to me to eat every day I would quickly loose my taste for them. I think the best way to enjoy something you love is to savor it in bite size portions with breaks of other things in between to mix things up.
    That said, the way SQuare dose the storytelling with FFXIV is a little different than what you might be used to with other game companies who front-load everything.
    FFXIV likes to beat around the bush sometimes. Introducing characters and quests that have seemingly nothing to do with anything only to tie them in late. This pays off if you stick around long enough but if you don't then it can be a trudge to get through.
    So my advice to you or anyone would be to have patience, give it time to unfold and when it becomes too much to bear then take a break and come back late. As myself and many many others have said, it dose pay off eventually if not always in a clear and concise manner.

  8. #50548
    I think FFXIV has been more enjoyable going 'backwards', so to speak. First of all, I've seen so many people overthink ShB and, being an overthinker myself, if I'd gotten there through progression from ARR I may have done the same instead of going in without any expectations and enjoying it as a stand alone story. There have also been several story elements that without knowledge of future developments would've fallen flat or been confusing to me, instead I was able to appreciate them for what they become later.

    My only issue is the filler and unfortunately that's 1) part of being an MMO and 2) not skippable since it's tied to the MSQ. It reminds me of 'slice of life' episodes, which I have always hated in series. You're on the edge of your seat wanting to find out what happens next in the main narrative only to have a week where the focus is on a day in the life of a side character who's not even part of it. Except while I can choose to not tune in for a week in regards to FFXIV I will have to play through that episode whether I like it or not, taking a break won't change that.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  9. #50549
    Quote Originally Posted by |Dexter| View Post
    maybe one line or 2 are different but everything else is the same.... lucky I got the game on sale!
    Ahh, yes, I forgot about every other video game out there that doesn't have the exact same problem (including WoW) when you're playing through it. No matter what you do, everything winds up being the same!

    It's a good thing that problem is unique to XIV, and you can avoid playing it to not run into that!

  10. #50550
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    4,959
    There's still loads of filler in ShB to be honest, and I equate both HW and ShB to be about the same from a story side. The thing they both have going for them is that the stories aren't all over the place (despite expanding on the story in some key areas). SB is all over the place, and despite me paying attention to the MSQ in all of the entries it never really 'vibed' with me at all. Most of the Ala Mhigo side of the game was a huge meh to me, even though I like characters like Rauhban and to some extent Lyse as well. The Doman side was done much better. Fordola, the Emperor and Zenos (especially Zenos) are all characters I really just didn't care for in the slightest.

    If there's voice acting in a quest it's usually pretty important, whereas anything that's done purely by text you have to see what's transpiring before deciding to loosely skim through it. That's generally how I approached the story.

    A lot of the side quest stuff is sort of optional, except most of the trials and the main raid series for an expansion. Both the SB and ShB main raid series (along with *most* of the trials) were really good. A lot of them tie directly into the story or add quite a bit of depth to the main characters to make them entirely worth it. So I'd suggest at least doing those if you're working your way through the game from scratch.

    While dungeons are a pretty meh part of the game to me (some of the boss encounters are cool), I think the worst part of the game by far is the Alliance raids. The ShB one especially seemed to have little or nothing to do with FF at all, all the while taking the worst parts of WoW LFR and putting them into a 45-60 minute easy "raid" that you have to endure. To sum them up, it's basically ~6 encounters, 3 of which being bosses that take a long ass time to kill. You can absolutely get killed if you fuck up mechanics, but given that there's 24 people, the chance that you actually wipe is incredibly low. Aside from having little relevance to the story (the ARR one is fine, and doesn't take nearly as long), you're also met with a good portion of the raid leeching in corners of the room making it take way longer than it ever should.

    But yeah, Alliance raids really suck. I get that some people will just never be good at games or fuck up constantly, and that's okay. I'd much prefer to see people trying and dying over and over again, even if it's annoying. But purposely leeching annoys the hell out of me and there's numerous people who do this sort of thing in the 24 man raids. Unfortunately there's a huge stigma to calling people out in this game even if it's super justified and people just won't even bother.

  11. #50551
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Twilight Town
    Posts
    9,175
    Yeah gotta be honest Alliance Raids seem kinda out of place for me. Raids and Trials have Savage and Extreme modes to go through, but with Alliance Raids you clear them day one and that's it. It makes the odd numbered patches feel pretty skippable honestly.

  12. #50552
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    15,040
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    Yeah gotta be honest Alliance Raids seem kinda out of place for me. Raids and Trials have Savage and Extreme modes to go through, but with Alliance Raids you clear them day one and that's it. It makes the odd numbered patches feel pretty skippable honestly.
    Yeah Alliance Raids are pretty much just a single wing of a WoW raid on LFR difficulty, and completely linear.

  13. #50553
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Yeah Alliance Raids are pretty much just a single wing of a WoW raid on LFR difficulty, and completely linear.
    *cough* Orbone monastery *cough* XD

    people go in there and wipe for days even if they do manage to clear it eventualy
    someone else might have gotten it wrong.

  14. #50554
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordin Solus View Post
    *cough* Orbone monastery *cough* XD

    people go in there and wipe for days even if they do manage to clear it eventualy
    Yeah... i think Val is underselling them.

    I would say the crystal tower first two wings are like LFR, but starting at world of Darkness you will need people who know what they are doing. Ivalice and Nier are legit tough though. You will die a lot. Many mechanics one-shot, which is not the case on WoW LFR.

    I do believe they have a loot lockout when they come out. They do award some of the best gear and they are really well done. The Nier raids were especially impressive.

    Thinking about it, it's not uncommon to wipe on labyrinth of the ancients final boss cause new peeps don't run to the platforms.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2021-09-13 at 09:44 AM.

  15. #50555
    Yeah... i think Val is underselling them.
    No way, Val misrepresenting something about FF14?

    Cannot be.

  16. #50556
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    I think I'm in the minority who actually preferred Stormblood to Heavensward. I like them both quite a bit and actually I'm currently doing all the side quests in the game and I think the side quests do a good job of addressing the tensions between the people of Ishgard that the MSQ wasn't able to do. However, Stormblood feels like a much more personal story that delves deeper into it's characters, whereas Heavensward feels like an epic classic fantasy adventure.

    I don't really like Xenos at all and I'm concerned that he'll bring Endwalker down for me, but I really liked Yotsuyu and Fordola as antagonists.

    Shadowbringers is really on a whole different level though. I really think it's one of the best stories in fiction. Everything from the 70-80 MSQ up to 5.3 is incredible.
    It's not just you. People like to hype HW's but it didn't click with me cause i don't care about dragons.
    Stormblood though was a more personal, human story. You can relate to the characters feelings and motivations. I especially liked how they portraid 2 of the villains, which were victims of their circunstances. Fordola and Yotsuyu.

    Stormblood was when i started to fall in love with the game. Up until then i was on the verge of quitting. The good old steppes saved me and it only got better from there.
    The start is quite slow though. Now, i understand why though. FF always takes it's time to set up events that have a pay-off later on. It does look like filler before you reach it though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    I think FFXIV has been more enjoyable going 'backwards', so to speak. First of all, I've seen so many people overthink ShB and, being an overthinker myself, if I'd gotten there through progression from ARR I may have done the same instead of going in without any expectations and enjoying it as a stand alone story. There have also been several story elements that without knowledge of future developments would've fallen flat or been confusing to me, instead I was able to appreciate them for what they become later.

    My only issue is the filler and unfortunately that's 1) part of being an MMO and 2) not skippable since it's tied to the MSQ. It reminds me of 'slice of life' episodes, which I have always hated in series. You're on the edge of your seat wanting to find out what happens next in the main narrative only to have a week where the focus is on a day in the life of a side character who's not even part of it. Except while I can choose to not tune in for a week in regards to FFXIV I will have to play through that episode whether I like it or not, taking a break won't change that.
    Yes, there is some sense to it cause people who arrive now, play it all back to back. But, these story updates are months apart when they first come out. And a 2 hour story experience every couple of months that may delve on a bit of slice of life is not perceived as bad. Only when one is playing it all back to back and probably in a rush to finish it. Which i totally advise against, but it is difficult to get peeps off the "rush to max level mindset" we have been conditioned with.

  17. #50557
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Texas, US
    Posts
    489
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittahsmash View Post
    Ahh, yes, I forgot about every other video game out there that doesn't have the exact same problem (including WoW) when you're playing through it. No matter what you do, everything winds up being the same!

    It's a good thing that problem is unique to XIV, and you can avoid playing it to not run into that!
    I never say it's unique to XIV. The story was good apart of the massive filter bits but I had major issues with server latency making group content one nightmare... my latency from Texas was as high as 1000ms at one point, were in WoW it's never top 100ms

  18. #50558
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    No one goes in there and "wipes for days". The heck are you guys even talking about?

    - - - Updated - - -



    I don't see how. I've seen FAR more wipes on some LFR bosses (Granted, a fairly exclusive few. KJ for instance.) than I have on any Alliance Raid bosses.

    With 24 people, it's very easy to exploit the infinite rezzes and extremely loose tuning to pull most any group back from the brink in Alliance Raids.
    you do understand i wasnt being literal right? what i mean is wipe alot which they do. now if you have the luck to never get a shitty party thats on you but ive seen parties get decimated in the ivalice raids
    someone else might have gotten it wrong.

  19. #50559
    considering you were the only one that didnt get it i think its more on you m8
    someone else might have gotten it wrong.

  20. #50560
    so if i say im so angry that i am about to blow up, do you realy think i am going to explode? dude dont try to pass yourself as being in the right XD every1 that reads what i wrote understands that what i mean is people die a shitton and wipe stop trying to make yourself look superior
    someone else might have gotten it wrong.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •