1. #51161
    There's a lot of, "Taking a piece of information and then subjectively applying a conclusion to it that fits your argument" going on here.

    But alright.

  2. #51162
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drindorai View Post
    Is that the truth? I'd love to see an interview with Yoshida or Ishikawa where they say this.
    I think they probably had a large, overarching concept but fine details are fleshed out much, much later.
    So yes: That can lead to inconsistencies.

  3. #51163
    Herald of the Titans Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I think they probably had a large, overarching concept but fine details are fleshed out much, much later.
    So yes: That can lead to inconsistencies.
    Reminds me of when I was writing fanfiction. I'd have these huge, sprawling outlines about plot points I wanted to hit, but had no idea how I was going to get there until I started writing. Sometimes not even then. That process just happens as you're writing, I think.

  4. #51164
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    They really have to take a look at their map design again.

    Yesterday i spent so. fucking. long. trying to find out how on earth i was supposed to get up that mountain in Dravania.

    Nvm every time i made my way to a location, only to be met with a giant cliff or straight up wall despite the map showing neither of those things in that spot.
    Last edited by Arafal; 2021-07-22 at 10:06 AM.

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  5. #51165
    Pit Lord bloodwulf's Avatar
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    posted in wrong thread by accident....moved now.

    Of course they put boosts on sale after i get my scholar (which i love btw, really excited for Sage now).

    Looking at boosting one of the following:
    Warrior
    Machinist
    Ninja

    I have a job in each of those roles, but those are the last batch that look exciting for me. I got my scholar/summoner to 76 and should hit 80 this weekend just doing roulettes. I have Samurai already for melee and enjoy it, and I have Bard for phys range, and don't enjoy the song juggling. I have a Gunbreaker and while i enjoy it, i think i want a different style tank.
    We live in an era of "me versus them", an era where something is done that you don't like means you are personally attacked. People whine too much.
    Let us play video games and be happy.

  6. #51166
    I know I'm only lvl 32, but am curious as to when some of my Paladin specific abilities start to come into play that helps differentiate myself from my Gladiator days?

  7. #51167
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodwulf View Post
    posted in wrong thread by accident....moved now.

    Of course they put boosts on sale after i get my scholar (which i love btw, really excited for Sage now).

    Looking at boosting one of the following:
    Warrior
    Machinist
    Ninja

    I have a job in each of those roles, but those are the last batch that look exciting for me. I got my scholar/summoner to 76 and should hit 80 this weekend just doing roulettes. I have Samurai already for melee and enjoy it, and I have Bard for phys range, and don't enjoy the song juggling. I have a Gunbreaker and while i enjoy it, i think i want a different style tank.
    As someone who boosted a few jobs:

    I would only boost lvl 1 jobs - MCH isn't that bad as it already starts at 30 iirc - and compared to the ARR jobs it actually has a decent kit from the start (much like dancer) - so its one of the jobs that can be leveled more relaxed.

  8. #51168
    The sad thing about the boosts is that they don't even get you past the longest part (70-80) so they seem like a bit of a waste.

    With Armory bonus (and the ring/earring if you have those) low levels are super fast anyway. It's just that last part that starts to feel like a bit of a slog.

  9. #51169
    Pit Lord bloodwulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    As someone who boosted a few jobs:

    I would only boost lvl 1 jobs - MCH isn't that bad as it already starts at 30 iirc - and compared to the ARR jobs it actually has a decent kit from the start (much like dancer) - so its one of the jobs that can be leveled more relaxed.
    So Warrior\Ninja in your opinion?


    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    The sad thing about the boosts is that they don't even get you past the longest part (70-80) so they seem like a bit of a waste.

    With Armory bonus (and the ring/earring if you have those) low levels are super fast anyway. It's just that last part that starts to feel like a bit of a slog.
    70-80 takes me a week a most? I never felt that was a slog as I enjoy Bozja. I hate running POTD\HOH over and over.
    We live in an era of "me versus them", an era where something is done that you don't like means you are personally attacked. People whine too much.
    Let us play video games and be happy.

  10. #51170
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodwulf View Post
    70-80 takes me a week a most? I never felt that was a slog as I enjoy Bozja. I hate running POTD\HOH over and over.
    A week is a pretty long time, if we're being honest. Especially if you're buying a boost to get to endgame, and then leveling for a week on top of that.

    Although enjoying Bozja seems like insanity. Insanity, I say!

  11. #51171
    Pit Lord bloodwulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    A week is a pretty long time, if we're being honest. Especially if you're buying a boost to get to endgame, and then leveling for a week on top of that.

    Although enjoying Bozja seems like insanity. Insanity, I say!
    So im 100% a gacha\blind box whore. I wont hide it. And i like the lockboxes from Bozja. I have maded a few million in my 3-4 weeks of bozja. As for a week, eh thats not that bad. It would take me far longer to do the 1-80 or 30-80 etc. I do not like basically anything from ARR.
    We live in an era of "me versus them", an era where something is done that you don't like means you are personally attacked. People whine too much.
    Let us play video games and be happy.

  12. #51172
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodwulf View Post
    So im 100% a gacha\blind box whore. I wont hide it. And i like the lockboxes from Bozja. I have maded a few million in my 3-4 weeks of bozja. As for a week, eh thats not that bad. It would take me far longer to do the 1-80 or 30-80 etc. I do not like basically anything from ARR.
    That's fair. To each their own.

    My issue is that a lot of the leveling offerings will actually start to put me to sleep. Grinding PotD/HoH, or Bozja. Dungeons are significantly more enjoyable for me, but DPS queues are just through the roof some days. I could do trusts 71-80, I guess. But it's more fun "competing" with others.

  13. #51173
    Pit Lord bloodwulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    That's fair. To each their own.

    My issue is that a lot of the leveling offerings will actually start to put me to sleep. Grinding PotD/HoH, or Bozja. Dungeons are significantly more enjoyable for me, but DPS queues are just through the roof some days. I could do trusts 71-80, I guess. But it's more fun "competing" with others.
    Bozja leveling for me turns into, set a goal of 1-2 levels a night, and get a show on another monitor. For me its been Fire Force right now, it was previously me catching up on Doctor Who cause i missed all of Jodie's seasons.
    We live in an era of "me versus them", an era where something is done that you don't like means you are personally attacked. People whine too much.
    Let us play video games and be happy.

  14. #51174
    As a sprout, what exactly is Bozja / Eureka? Are they like Argus / Korthia / Nazjatar / Mechagon?

  15. #51175
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    As a sprout, what exactly is Bozja / Eureka? Are they like Argus / Korthia / Nazjatar / Mechagon?
    Bozja is a max level zone (Which you can also access after unlocking it with a 71 job to level up) where you rise as a resistance member. Doing FATEs there lets you get 'mettle' which you can use to level up your resistance rank.

    It also has its own side story regarding the Eastern Alliance (Dalmasca, Bozja, Doma) which includes 3 Raid lites.

    It also lets you get the armor from FFXII and Resistance Weapons which have the highest ilvl in the game

    https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...stance_Weapons

    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  16. #51176
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Bozja is a max level zone (Which you can also access after unlocking it with a 71 job to level up) where you rise as a resistance member. Doing FATEs there lets you get 'mettle' which you can use to level up your resistance rank.

    It also has its own side story regarding the Eastern Alliance (Dalmasca, Bozja, Doma) which includes 3 Raid lites.

    It also lets you get the armor from FFXII and Resistance Weapons which have the highest ilvl in the game

    https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...stance_Weapons

    Ok so there's a fate system, but every zone has that. Are there any unique gameplay mechanics? Or is it just fate grinding?

  17. #51177
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    As a sprout, what exactly is Bozja / Eureka? Are they like Argus / Korthia / Nazjatar / Mechagon?
    They're sort of little self-contained zones with their own rules and progression. Eureka moreso than Bozja.

    (Oversimplified explanations incoming)

    Bozja is an open world area where "skirmishes" (FATEs) pop up, and then they sometimes lead into "Critical Engagements" (Sort of mini-trials) and as you do them you gain "Mettle" (XP) to raise your "Resistance Rank" (Level) to progress in the story of the area. You can enter at 71 and your level is synced up to 80 which is nice to try things out. You also gain job XP for each skirmish and engagement, so it's a nice leveling area as well.

    Eureka is also mostly open world. It's a little different in that your normal level is replaced by an "Elemental Level" which starts at 1. Individual mobs are significantly tougher than mobs in the normal overworld, and you mostly kill individual mobs to get FATEs to spawn, which is where the bulk of your currency will come from. There is no job XP given in Eureka for activities so it's not as useful in that regard as Bozja.

    In both areas you get currency to work on your relic from that expansion, which is really the primary purpose of these zones. Also, in both areas you take a penalty to your "level" in that zone for dying, and a really large penalty if you aren't rezzed. Which can get old fast sometimes.

    The core problem I have with both zones is that - to be frank - they're just...boring. They're a return in design to "ye olden days" of MMOs where you just sat around in an open world area waiting for things to happen, or pulling some random enemies to farm. Eureka was much worse than Bozja in this regard, but they're both still pretty slow-paced, low-activity, sorts of content.

  18. #51178
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    The shift in narrative direction, storylines and ideas being dropped, retcons, and changes in characterizations are quite apparent on a second playthrough.
    Spoiler: 

    • The Ul'dah storyline that was set up in the ARR patches anti-climatically fizzles out in HW 3.0, with all of the consequences retconned away (everybody comes back from the dead). The writers either didn't know how to end it, or what plans they had were tossed out the window when they had to write HW 3.0.
    • The Stormblood short story about Zenos' childhood shows us that Zenos was a bored young man with too much time on his hands, who started becoming bloodthirsty after an encounter with an assassin. The Shadowbringers patches retcons Zenos' motivations: every single time he goes to sleep, he dreams of Amaurot. Fandaniel insinuates that Emet-Selch may have altered or warped Zenos into the way he is. These dreams directly contradict the Stormblood short story, as it ends with Zenos sleeping soundly, which makes sense as the Amaurot backstory for the Ascians had not been created yet.
    • Midgardsomr is pretty wonkily written. At the end of 2.5, he begins following the WoL around, and pops up throughout the 3.0 storyline. At the end of 3.0, he flies off and is never seen again... until the Omega storyline during Stormblood, at which point he pops up again and reveals that he has been following the WoL around the entire time since 3.0. Um... what? If he was still following the WoL around, then why didn't he ever pop up again? There were a dozen different times when he would have been interested in what was going on and would have wanted to get a word in, such as when the WoL met Hydaelyn at the Anti-Tower. Or the confrontations with the WoDs. Or when they met Hydaelyn again. Or Shinryu using Nidhogg's eyes. Etc.
    • Stormblood completely retcons Gaius, first with him being retconned from an tyrannical dictator so hated that the Ala Mhigan resistance pursued him all the way to Eorzea just to kill him, to being "the good governor who was actually beloved!". And his characterization in the Stormblood patches is at complete odds with how he actually acted in the ARR storyline (as well as being impossible given how Garlemald is depicted by the time of Stormblood. With how evil Garlemald is retconned into being by the time of late SB, there is no way Gaius could have climbed up so far into the ranks and not be willingly complicit in evil. It's like trying to say that General Revil from Gundam was "the one good general in the Federation!".
    • The ARR story and early HW had an emphasis on political storylines and had some semblance of consequences, but by the time of late Stormblood and Shadowbringers the writers don't give a damn about the political storylines, instead glossing over them to focus on the occult plot, and even minor side characters have impenetrable plot armor.
    • Heavensward 3.0 sets up Varis as the big bad of FFXIV, as a man who truly believes that taking over the world will be for the greater good. He's everything Gaius believes him to be. Then the final patch of Stormblood retcons him into being crazy evil "kill everyone for the sake of it", the kind of man Gaius would hate because Garlemald is supposed to be taking over the world and ruling over everyone, not killing everyone! And then he gets written out of the story at the end of Shadowbringers 5.0 because evidently it was decided that 6.0 would be the last expansion before the soft reboot and the Garlemald war wasn't interesting enough (and a whole bunch of other storylines were cancelled/rushed/wrapped up as well).
    • Shadowbringers throws away a lot of plotlines, such as Garlemald, Limsa's pirate politics, the asspull cure for Tempering, decades of beast-tribe and city state hostility being forgotten overnight, Etc.


    Retcons

    • In 1.0 and ARR 2.0, the WoL isn't the only Warrior of Light; there are many Warriors of Light chosen by Hydaelyn and running around Eorzea. As the game goes on, this is quietly forgotten, and by the time of Stormblood and Shadowbringers the player WoL is treated as if they are the only one chosen by Hydaelyn on the Source.
    • In ARR 2.0, it is stated that the hard mode Primals you fight in the postgame are the same Primals you fought earlier, and that primal spirits hang around in the Lifestream until resummoned into physical reality. This is retconned later on, as each primal summoned is a different one (Primal Summoning is just fancy creation magic, pretty much the act of creating a familiar). The Shiva in Shadowbringers is not that same as Yslaye, and so on.
    • In ARR 2.1, the Scions give us exposition on how the Ascians survive being killed: they have the echo and a crystal of darkness. When they die, their soul leaves their body and begins heading towards the Lifestream, but if there was a crystal of darkness on the body at the time of death, and the crystal is used up and the soul can avoid going back to the Lifestream, and possess another body. In Stormblood, Zenos dies and was surprised to have come back from the dead. It is never mentioned that he had a crystal of darkness on his person. In the Stormblood short story about Zenos, Zenos does use crystals to cast abilities (because he is Garlean and has no aether), but it feels bizzare that this was never brought up in the game.
    • In ARR 2.0, Ifrit tries to temper the WoL, but fails, and states that his tempering didn't work because the WoL has already been claimed by another, implying that Hydaelyn has tempered the WoL. This is retconned in Stormblood, when it is stated that the echo is what made the WoL immune to tempering.
    • In the Warring Triad questline, Regula is said to be one of Emperor Varis' closest lifelong friends. And yet, after Regula dies, Varis never talks about Regula, not even once. At least Vayne and Venat lamented Dr. Cid when they learned of his demise in FFXII.
    • Yda is retconned into actually being Yda's sister, Lyse. There was nothing foreshadowing this prior to the reveal being dropped. It's quite obvious that they only came up with this after Heavensward 3.0 released and Stormblood was being written.
    • During the Omega raid storyline, Cid makes a big deal about the Ironworks not existing to make weapons, but existing to make people free. But then in the Sorrow of Werylt questline, he is making a huge weapon: the G-Warrior.
    • The new races and jobs were retconned into the story. Au Ra, Viera, and Hrothgar are apparently supposed to be just as populous as any other race (and they make up the majority races in certain powerful nations, such as Bozja and the Azim Steppe), yet they were literally never mentioned until the expansion in which they dropped. Gunblades were heavily implied to be unique Garlean weapons, but then ShB retcons them into being Hrothgar inventions, etc.
    • In 5.3, G'raha Tia uses the Crystal Tower to obliterate Elidibus, comparing the Crystal Tower to White Auracite. It makes sense that Elidibus would have overlooked or not have known about this, as he was not involved in the creation of tower. Emet was... which creates a plothole for 5.0. Why did Emet walk around the Crystarium and inside the Crystal Tower if he knew that at any time, he could have been one shotted by the Exarch? Emet only expresses fear of being killed by the WoL, hence why when he introduces himself to the Scions, Emet sends an illusion (which Urianger dispells). So why doesn't he stay away from the tower and send illusions inside instead?
    • In the 2.0 ARR story, Gaius tells his lieutenant, Livia, "my quarters. 10 minutes", implying that he's having sex with her. The 5.4. Sorrow of Werylt story retcons this, saying that Gaius never had a sexual relationship with her, and that he never made an advance on her, and that it was all Livia just crushing on him.
    • In the 2.0 ARR story, Gaius tells his lieutenant, Livia, "my quarters. 10 minutes", implying that he's having sex with her. The 5.4. Sorrow of Werylt story retcons this, saying that Gaius never had a sexual relationship with her, and that he never made an advance on her, and that it was all Livia just crushing on him.



    Dropped storylines and ideas:

    • In the 2.0 MSQ, during the Company of Heroes arc, you meet a conscripted Garlean soldier named Drex, hiding out in a shack in La Noscea. He's the first Garlemald affiliated character we meet in the story, and it's quite effective at humanizing Garemald, as he's portrayed as a shivering, pathetic man who just wants to go home and see his family again. It is brought up that he does not have enough money to afford passage back home, so he is trying to take up work to scrounge together the money. This plotline is never brought up again and we don't see the character in Ala Mhigo or Doma. Maybe we will get to see him in Bozja or Garlemald, but it's looking like he's been forgotten.
    • In the 2.0 MSQ, during the Lahabrea Investigation arc, you go to Little Ala Mhigo and meet the head of the refugees, an old warrior named Gundobald. At the end of the arc, he promises the youths that when the time to overthrow Garlemald in Ala Mhigo comes, he will lead their group in battle. Gundobald never shows up in Stormblood, nor is he mention. Strangely, another 2.0 Ala Mhigan NPC, Meffrid, shows up in Stormblood, and is a major character during the first 1/3rd of the story.
    • In the 2.1 MSQ, Elidibus is introduced. He walks into Waking Sands and only Minfillia and the WoL can see him. Tataru walks right by him and doesn't see him, implying that the Ascians are like the FFXII Occuria in that they can selectively choose who they reveal themselves to, but those with the Echo can always see them. This ability never pops up again. Afterwards, every Ascian can be seen by anyone at all times.


    But we also have dozens of interviews from Yoshida and the writing team on how they were making up the story as they went along.
    Spoiler: 


    The whole story was not planned from the beginning.



    Link



    The Crystal Tower series was not planned to set up Shadowbringers.



    Link



    Link



    On what was planned for the First:



    Link



    The writing team began writing the outline for Shadowbringers one month after Stormblood 4.0's release.



    Link



    Link



    On writing the outlines for an expansion's base story:



    Link



    We know from other interviews that after the outline is written, the storyline remains in flux right up until the last minute. G'raha Tia's fate was undecided until right up to 5.3's release.



    Link



    Emet-Selch did not exist in the first draft. The antagonists were the Sin-Eaters. Evidently Emet-Selch did not exist prior to Shadowbringers 5.0's story being created, in Summer 2017 after Stormblood 4.0 launched.



    Link



    On the Ascians and what was planned for them:



    Link

    They didn't come up with the Emet = Solus and the Ascian-Garlemald connection until they began writing Shadowbringers. Emet-Selch did not exist until they began writing Shadowbringers.



    Link



    Link



    The Elidibus arc and Endwalker 6.0 was written after Shadowbringers 5.0 launched, in late October.



    Link



    Link



    Link



    Regarding the direction of FFXIV after 6.0:



    Link



    - - - Updated - - -

    Those are the interviews from 2019 onward. Yoshida does dozens and dozens of interviews every year and I probably missed some, and that's not even getting into the interviews he did in the years before, but I can't be bothered to go digging through them right now.
    Regarding the echo and ifrit, isnt you know who a you know what and ifrit mind control didnt work because "first come, first serve"?

  19. #51179
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    Ok so there's a fate system, but every zone has that. Are there any unique gameplay mechanics? Or is it just fate grinding?
    Fate grinding, honestly. After several fates, there are also 'Critical Engagements' which are basically mini bosses that spawn in the area.
    Afterwards you unlock Zadnor, which is basically the same with new fates and events but they feature 'Duels' which is a 1v1 mini boss fight

    You can also farm Bozjan Clusters there which can be exchanged for several items like emotes, a mount and other things
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  20. #51180
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodwulf View Post
    posted in wrong thread by accident....moved now.

    Of course they put boosts on sale after i get my scholar (which i love btw, really excited for Sage now).

    Looking at boosting one of the following:
    Warrior
    Machinist
    Ninja

    I have a job in each of those roles, but those are the last batch that look exciting for me. I got my scholar/summoner to 76 and should hit 80 this weekend just doing roulettes. I have Samurai already for melee and enjoy it, and I have Bard for phys range, and don't enjoy the song juggling. I have a Gunbreaker and while i enjoy it, i think i want a different style tank.
    Warrior is fun to play in Bozja because you can pull a ton of mobs and live for a long, long time. But before then it's not fun. Also, it's not really fun outside of Bozja because there isn't really any content in which you can pull a lot of hard hitting mobs (dungeons after ARR are designed so that you can only pull 2 or 3 trash packs at a time).

    Ninja's Mudra system is fun, but you can enjoy Ninja very early on as it gets Mudras around levels 30-45.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diatribe View Post
    I know I'm only lvl 32, but am curious as to when some of my Paladin specific abilities start to come into play that helps differentiate myself from my Gladiator days?
    Paladin is the most mechanically bland tank class. It doesn't even get a charge or a ranged ability until the level 70s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    As someone who boosted a few jobs:

    I would only boost lvl 1 jobs - MCH isn't that bad as it already starts at 30 iirc - and compared to the ARR jobs it actually has a decent kit from the start (much like dancer) - so its one of the jobs that can be leveled more relaxed.
    ARR 1-50 is the fastest part of the levelling process. You can get to level 50 in a few hours just spamming squadron dungeons over and over again with only an hour or two of actual time spent playing (as you spend of the time alt tabbed out while your AI party members do the work for you).

    50 to 70 takes more effort because you have to actually play the game while you do your daily MSQ, dungeon, alliance raid, and frontline, and then you'll be 70 in a few days. Mathematically a Tales of Adventure is more efficient. If you spend 6-10 hours

    As for whether or not to boost, it depends on how much you value your time and money. If a boost right now costs $17.50, and if you earn $10 an hour, then you can just work for an hour and 45 minutes and you will have a level 70 character. Or you can spend at least a dozen hours doing the 50-70 daily roulettes to get the character up to 70. But at that point you have to ask yourself why you're boosting: is it so you can see the job storyline? Then you're basically paying $17.50 for a (relatively speaking) lackluster 1-2 hour long experience that you could have spent on another game. Are you paying so you can have fun playing in Bozja? (Do you enjoy playing Bozja alone? It's a grindfest that will be a lot more fun if you have fun to talk to over voice chat). Then I suppose that might make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    Ok so there's a fate system, but every zone has that. Are there any unique gameplay mechanics? Or is it just fate grinding?
    The FATE enemies have actual mechanics are actually somewhat challenging. The Critical Engagement FATEs are straight up boss fights like you'd see in a dungeon or a raid. But yes it's pretty much grinding, either FATEs (for EXP and memories so you can upgrade your relic weapon) or rank 3+ magitek mobs so you farm clusters.

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