[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Onikaroshi]

We cleared SoD exactly twice on heroic before the guild fell apart. It didnt seem that bad, just the game itself seems.... off.

I never considered mythic+ as actual new content. I did it over the expansions, but just upping the difficulty on the same dungeons over and over again does not translate to more replayability for the majority of people.

Try farming it lol. SoD was one of the worst raids we've had IMO.

But that's enough on that, too far off topic.

[Tojara]

Pretty sure i mentioned that. If it wasn't possible to res, the encounters would be way too hard.
But, failing mechanics and dying should not be something you are happy with and it does cost mettle.
Yes, the thing in FF is that you can get carried, not that the fights are easy. At least until you are doing ultimates or savage before people are decked in gear.

As you say, perhaps if there were no infinite reses, there would be nothing else these people can argue, but like this, there is personal challenge without costing progression on casual content.
Let me tell you, once you do master the encounter it feels amazing. I never feel like that in WoW. Usually i got the encounter mastered in a few pulls and i have to wait until the dummies decide to learn or not. FF solves that problem with this system, so i do like that.

I'm not sure, I feel like there are plenty of encounters even in WoW where I felt both relief and really good to finally kill it. A lot of the bosses in SoO felt that way, and bosses like Blackhand in WoD felt really good. I'd agree however that a lot of the time it's more of a relief than feeling really good about it. Keep in mind however, I don't do ultimates (yet) in FF14, but I'm not sure if they really appeal to me because I've never been a person in either game to chase achievements or cosmetic items. The thing that sort of turns me off from them isn't necessarily the difficulty, but the length of the encounter. Some of the worst encounters in WoW for me were Imperator Margok in Highmaul and Sha of Fear in ToES during MoP. What do both of those encounters have in common? They're just insanely long and while that's okay once and awhile, it's not something I routinely enjoy.

The Queen raid in Bozja was the first time I did any raiding content above 8 man that I felt was REALLY well done. While I never wiped on any of the encounters, I certainly died the 6-7 times I did the place, especially during the first few times I went through it. I went in blind, and as you can expect with a host of one shot (or two shots with the doom mechanic) mechanics I fell over a decent amount of times.

Was the above frustrating though? Not really. We didn't wipe and although I have issues with the infinite rez thing, it allowed me to get back up and experience the encounter as I learned all the hoops I needed to jump through. By the time I did the place my third time, I basically had learned all of the mechanics in that place and immensely enjoyed the encounter design as a whole. I maintain however, that if I had just took my main (DRK) as opposed to my BLM (because I wanted to level my BLM in Bozja, while getting the DRK relic weapon) that I would've died a lot less because learning shit as a BLM is pretty dumb. Lots of savage and other raiding content allows you to sometimes eat vulnerability stacks, but in this area you just kind of die if you do, so adjustments need to be made. The hot/cold boss, the chess boss, and the queen with the chess boss at the end were all brilliant encounters.

By comparison, the other big raids in that area were a pretty big disappointment IMO, but I can't say that I've ever enjoyed any of big raid stuff in FF14 at all because it largely becomes an AFK and auto attack snooze fest from people who are just checking off boxes for the day while watching youtube/Netflix. As you can tell, I much prefer the 8 man content in FF14 (and I liked 10 man raiding in Cata/MoP in WoW), with that one Bozja raid being the only real exception.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Asking for a certain io, or an achievement isn't really much different than listing a group as "completion" in the PF so it doesn't even show up for people who hadn't completed, even if they're 99% through the fight and just haven't quite secured a kill yet for one reason or another.

In both games people are just trying to get things done as smoothly as possible.

And wow isn't hemorrhaging because of anything mentioned here, it's doing it because the content is crap

There's no equivalent for IO in FF really. And yes, locking your group to duty completion is just like linking the achievement. But there's never been a moment while playing FF where someone asks me to prove I've killed a boss kill 4+ bosses away from the actual progression of the group or required 20 more item levels than the fight actually needs. People in WoW often expect you to be better geared than required for content, and better progressed.

Among us higher end FF raiders, once we're done with the tier we often like to hop into "completion" groups, listed for people who are looking to kill a fight for the first time. It's very common to see fellow veterans join these groups to help people get their kill. There are entire twitch streamers who have based their twitch career entirely on helping groups finish fights. How often do you see top WoW raiders going back to help less progressed groups? Very rarely.

Yes, there is some manners of gate keeping, but the WoW gate keeping can be ridiculously over the top, where people require you to be better progressed and better geared for even the most basic of bosses.

A lot of people who come over to FFXIV mention that they are afraid to raid because they're afraid they'll mess up and get yelled at, or that they feel too undergeared, or any number of anxieties that WoW has taught them like a Pavlovian dog to fear about even trying to raid. It takes awhile deprogramming people of their anxieties, but many of the people I've helped to do the first boss of a savage tier have gone on to clear ultimates. They were more than capable of doing it. WoW had just taught them to be fearful of the social aspects of raiding. Had taught them that people would always be toxic.

Some may claim this is ridiculous, that I'm exaggerating or overstating. I'm not. People have genuine panic attacks over messing up in raids sometimes, and we just tell them it's ok, we'll pull again. Messing up is part of learning, and you have to die to a mechanic one or more times to truly understand it.

I'm not saying the FF community is perfect. But there's a huge number of us who are pretty dedicated to not only helping newer raiders, but also want to deprogram those people who flinch in fear when raiding is mentioned.

Really, the fact that a lot of people coming over from WoW have genuine fear and anxiety towards raiding is all I really need to know. That the same old gatekeeping that's been there since gearscore in wotlk is still alive and thriving.

[cityguy193]

Try farming it lol. SoD was one of the worst raids we've had IMO.

But that's enough on that, too far off topic.

Oh god no, we never "farmed" content beyond the first few clears. I cant even imagine.

FFXIV finished downloading, and im actually excited to start this new adventure .

[Cthulhu 2020]

I'm not sure, I feel like there are plenty of encounters even in WoW where I felt both relief and really good to finally kill it. A lot of the bosses in SoO felt that way, and bosses like Blackhand in WoD felt really good. I'd agree however that a lot of the time it's more of a relief than feeling really good about it. Keep in mind however, I don't do ultimates (yet) in FF14, but I'm not sure if they really appeal to me because I've never been a person in either game to chase achievements or cosmetic items. The thing that sort of turns me off from them isn't necessarily the difficulty, but the length of the encounter. Some of the worst encounters in WoW for me were Imperator Margok in Highmaul and Sha of Fear in ToES during MoP. What do both of those encounters have in common? They're just insanely long and while that's okay once and awhile, it's not something I routinely enjoy.

The Queen raid in Bozja was the first time I did any raiding content above 8 man that I felt was REALLY well done. While I never wiped on any of the encounters, I certainly died the 6-7 times I did the place, especially during the first few times I went through it. I went in blind, and as you can expect with a host of one shot (or two shots with the doom mechanic) mechanics I fell over a decent amount of times.

Was the above frustrating though? Not really. We didn't wipe and although I have issues with the infinite rez thing, it allowed me to get back up and experience the encounter as I learned all the hoops I needed to jump through. By the time I did the place my third time, I basically had learned all of the mechanics in that place and immensely enjoyed the encounter design as a whole. I maintain however, that if I had just took my main (DRK) as opposed to my BLM (because I wanted to level my BLM in Bozja, while getting the DRK relic weapon) that I would've died a lot less because learning shit as a BLM is pretty dumb. Lots of savage and other raiding content allows you to sometimes eat vulnerability stacks, but in this area you just kind of die if you do, so adjustments need to be made. The hot/cold boss, the chess boss, and the queen with the chess boss at the end were all brilliant encounters.

By comparison, the other big raids in that area were a pretty big disappointment IMO, but I can't say that I've ever enjoyed any of big raid stuff in FF14 at all because it largely becomes an AFK and auto attack snooze fest from people who are just checking off boxes for the day while watching youtube/Netflix. As you can tell, I much prefer the 8 man content in FF14 (and I liked 10 man raiding in Cata/MoP in WoW), with that one Bozja raid being the only real exception.

The Bozja raids are a bit of an outlier, that type of region and the raids are reminiscent of FF11. Same with Eureka. DR Savage is similar but harder than regular DR, and if you die, you're perma dead unless a healer decides they want to bet on a 70% chance. The only res in there kills you, but you can have a buff on yourself that has a 70% chance to raise you. One time we had to call a run because the healers kept on losing that 70% chance trying to res one guy, and then they all ended up dead.

Ultimate is many many tiers above DR. And while the shiny weapons are a draw for me to do them, I appreciate that they will remain an eternal challenge that cannot be out geared. I enjoy challenging myself to the extreme, not only with my reaction time, ability to execute rotation, but also my stamina on long fights. A lot of the longer fights in WoW had long periods where not much happens.

The ultimates in FFXIV are extremely mechanic dense, and you're always doing something. It's not for everyone, because yes, you do have to concentrate intently for 18 minutes and make little to no mistakes. But I try to encourage anyone who has interest in hard content to do them, for they are a great challenge to overcome.

I just recently led a group of half former WoW players through Ultima Weapon Ultimate, and they all say it's the most fun they've ever had in an MMO, ever, and to them it easily beats out any fight that WoW ever offered in terms of overall fun, mechanics, spectacle, challenge, and elation they felt when it finally died.

Just wait until I take them into TEA.

[Onikaroshi]

There's no equivalent for IO in FF really. And yes, locking your group to duty completion is just like linking the achievement. But there's never been a moment while playing FF where someone asks me to prove I've killed a boss kill 4+ bosses away from the actual progression of the group or required 20 more item levels than the fight actually needs. People in WoW often expect you to be better geared than required for content, and better progressed.

Among us higher end FF raiders, once we're done with the tier we often like to hop into "completion" groups, listed for people who are looking to kill a fight for the first time. It's very common to see fellow veterans join these groups to help people get their kill. There are entire twitch streamers who have based their twitch career entirely on helping groups finish fights. How often do you see top WoW raiders going back to help less progressed groups? Very rarely.

Yes, there is some manners of gate keeping, but the WoW gate keeping can be ridiculously over the top, where people require you to be better progressed and better geared for even the most basic of bosses.

A lot of people who come over to FFXIV mention that they are afraid to raid because they're afraid they'll mess up and get yelled at, or that they feel too undergeared, or any number of anxieties that WoW has taught them like a Pavlovian dog to fear about even trying to raid. It takes awhile deprogramming people of their anxieties, but many of the people I've helped to do the first boss of a savage tier have gone on to clear ultimates. They were more than capable of doing it. WoW had just taught them to be fearful of the social aspects of raiding. Had taught them that people would always be toxic.

Some may claim this is ridiculous, that I'm exaggerating or overstating. I'm not. People have genuine panic attacks over messing up in raids sometimes, and we just tell them it's ok, we'll pull again. Messing up is part of learning, and you have to die to a mechanic one or more times to truly understand it.

I'm not saying the FF community is perfect. But there's a huge number of us who are pretty dedicated to not only helping newer raiders, but also want to deprogram those people who flinch in fear when raiding is mentioned.

Really, the fact that a lot of people coming over from WoW have genuine fear and anxiety towards raiding is all I really need to know. That the same old gatekeeping that's been there since gearscore in wotlk is still alive and thriving.

TBF, wow raiding isn't really that bad an negative as people claim either though. I have never once been yelled at or had a yelling RL. The only meme thing that is really true is people are super impatient in wow, they'll leave after one wipe even if it's at 99% due to a freak accident. It's not everyone, but there's always that one person.

I think wow being so prominent on things like youtube and the "screaming raid leader" videos going viral has made people think that high end wow raiding (or high end raiding in general) is all screaming, I'm sure there is RL out there who still do it, but it's not an affective measure.

[ketsui]

I just began playing again after not playing this for years and literally sat there for 4+ hours watching videos at a target dummy to learn my rotation for what they called the most simple class, dancer. I am enjoying the game but jesus you actually need to be intelligent to play this game. Loving it though

[Yarathir]

JP has always been super crazy on that though, like I remember back in FFXI days getting into JP groups and they'd just carry you around lol.

People underestimate JP players because they're not seen a lot in western games, but there is some crazy good players there.

True. JP groups are pretty insane.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I just began playing again after not playing this for years and literally sat there for 4+ hours watching videos at a target dummy to learn my rotation for what they called the most simple class, dancer. I am enjoying the game but jesus you actually need to be intelligent to play this game. Loving it though

You just need to sort your keybinds in a way that gives it some logical flow. That makes most classes rather quick to pick up again. From there it's just doing your basic 1-2 attack combo and hitting what lights up.

[Swnem]

I'm not sure, I feel like there are plenty of encounters even in WoW where I felt both relief and really good to finally kill it. A lot of the bosses in SoO felt that way, and bosses like Blackhand in WoD felt really good. I'd agree however that a lot of the time it's more of a relief than feeling really good about it. Keep in mind however, I don't do ultimates (yet) in FF14, but I'm not sure if they really appeal to me because I've never been a person in either game to chase achievements or cosmetic items. The thing that sort of turns me off from them isn't necessarily the difficulty, but the length of the encounter. Some of the worst encounters in WoW for me were Imperator Margok in Highmaul and Sha of Fear in ToES during MoP. What do both of those encounters have in common? They're just insanely long and while that's okay once and awhile, it's not something I routinely enjoy.

The Queen raid in Bozja was the first time I did any raiding content above 8 man that I felt was REALLY well done. While I never wiped on any of the encounters, I certainly died the 6-7 times I did the place, especially during the first few times I went through it. I went in blind, and as you can expect with a host of one shot (or two shots with the doom mechanic) mechanics I fell over a decent amount of times.

Was the above frustrating though? Not really. We didn't wipe and although I have issues with the infinite rez thing, it allowed me to get back up and experience the encounter as I learned all the hoops I needed to jump through. By the time I did the place my third time, I basically had learned all of the mechanics in that place and immensely enjoyed the encounter design as a whole. I maintain however, that if I had just took my main (DRK) as opposed to my BLM (because I wanted to level my BLM in Bozja, while getting the DRK relic weapon) that I would've died a lot less because learning shit as a BLM is pretty dumb. Lots of savage and other raiding content allows you to sometimes eat vulnerability stacks, but in this area you just kind of die if you do, so adjustments need to be made. The hot/cold boss, the chess boss, and the queen with the chess boss at the end were all brilliant encounters.

By comparison, the other big raids in that area were a pretty big disappointment IMO, but I can't say that I've ever enjoyed any of big raid stuff in FF14 at all because it largely becomes an AFK and auto attack snooze fest from people who are just checking off boxes for the day while watching youtube/Netflix. As you can tell, I much prefer the 8 man content in FF14 (and I liked 10 man raiding in Cata/MoP in WoW), with that one Bozja raid being the only real exception.

It's unfortunate you have that experience with the AFK people. It should be possible to kick them, so i don't know why people don't do it.
I have not had that issue myself though.

[Cthulhu 2020]

For those who feel aggrieved by the FFXIV cash shop, the mog station, something new I learned is that all proceeds from the mog station go back into the development of the game including regional server clusters.



This is a pretty good thing to know.

How much money from WoW token and race changes and mounts do you think goes back into the game, and how much do you think goes into stock prices and dividends?

[Rootsbum]

Pretty bummed out about Endwalkers delay.
Wish they dropped the new classes and bunnyboys on the 19th as planned. So there was something at least

[Rappy28]

Re: EW Trailer

Emet narrating, Amaurot, Convocation, WoL clutching the Azem crystal, Fandaniel wanting to bring back their world after all, and a group storming what looks like the Hydaelyn crystal. They're getting my hopes up with this trailer.

Is it really Fandaniel's voice in that part of the trailer? I can't tell because I have no idea what he sounds like in English. It's unambiguously Elidibus in Japanese, and I want to say in French too but I don't play with French VA, only text.

Then again, considering how ...unique? the English script can get, I'm not putting it past them to outright swap lines in a trailer. The very last last line before the title card and Alphinaud part seems to be Emet in English, but is someone else (and a wholly different line) entirely in Japanese and French.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Pretty bummed out about Endwalkers delay.
Wish they dropped the new classes and bunnyboys on the 19th as planned. So there was something at least

Probably too much of a hassle to rip them out of a patch and making a new one with just them in it. That would come with a slew of other changes. Essentially what WoW does as a prepatch for a couple of weeks before, they all drop straight up at launch (or early access launch). It's not like all the stuff is already in the client and just needs the server to unlock it.

[Tenjen]

Now that I have more time before EW, I can level up a few more jobs but its my land and hand jobs I am aiming to skill up. I'll focus first on doing all the hand jobs in the firmament back to back for hours on end, then use what I earn from them to level up crafting as much as I can. Hopefully get a whole bunch of scrips in the process to get my some mounts, dyes and those glams especially.

[Lane]

PSA to make sure all your sub-80 jobs are freshly dinged. Yoshi-P said in the LL that EXP gains will be reset with EW, so if you're 50% into a level you'll be 0% when it goes live.

Is it really Fandaniel's voice in that part of the trailer? I can't tell because I have no idea what he sounds like in English. It's unambiguously Elidibus in Japanese, and I want to say in French too but I don't play with French VA, only text.

I saw a voice line comparison on the official lore forum. It seems like some of the dialog and voice actors were different depending on language. I've read that the Japanese and English versions are worked on in tandem and every other language is translated from that so I tend to err on the side of the English version, but it raises some interesting questions nonetheless. It was definitely Fandaniel for English.

Link: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...age-Comparison

[Pannonian]

Well, just as i finished my last relic (took me 2 weeks longer as i just decided to also get all skytools) the release gets delayed.

So today i talked to our manager, and our release will be moved 2 weeks too (for unrelated reason) - so my vacation is saved! yeah!

[Aucald]

As it bears apparent repeating: let's drop the game vs. game infighting (e.g. WoW vs. FFXIV) and focus instead of FFXIV specifically.

[Onikaroshi]

Probably too much of a hassle to rip them out of a patch and making a new one with just them in it. That would come with a slew of other changes. Essentially what WoW does as a prepatch for a couple of weeks before, they all drop straight up at launch (or early access launch). It's not like all the stuff is already in the client and just needs the server to unlock it.

That's one thing I wish FF would improve on, their patching is horrible. 24 hour patches for major content but people just keep giving them a pass for it.

[Delever]

Lots of malding washed up WoW players in here bashing graphics, pacing and in game customization.
I m not saying the customization in XIV is great but its good enough. I m not a fan of facial features being locked into certain faces though.

But claiming that somehow having 20 different facial options that look virtually the same with incredibly minor alterations versus 4-5 distinct facial looks that you can then individually customize further through the sliders and the different options give is somehow better is a bit weird to me.

To each their own but at least keep that shit outa here.