1. #51441
    There's always been a vocal group of people against the cash shop, and there always will be one as there will always be a cash shop.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again:

    Just because you paid to get into the theme/roller coaster park does not mean there won't be other expenses inside. Food and drink are still paid for, souvenirs and gifts are still paid for, arcades and carnival like games are still paid for, hell even some rides might still be paid for.

    Though if they started gating in game playable content behind an additional pay wall or player power then I'd see reason to be vocal, but until such time raids, dungeons, or PvP are gated behind an additional wall I personally see no reason to bitch and complain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    The money raised through the Mog Station is also guaranteed to be pumped back into the game and is the reason we have had server improvements over the years.
    This.
    Last edited by Yzak; 2021-08-13 at 09:21 PM.
    At times, the frequent redundancy and stupidity of these forums, turns me into an argumentative ass.

    To most of you, I apologize in advance. I will attempt to be nicer.

  2. #51442
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    I think the issue with this one specifically is that it is an iconic raid boss. I think that's pretty wrong. All of the other cash shop shit doesn't really bother me honestly.

  3. #51443
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    I think the issue with this one specifically is that it is an iconic raid boss. I think that's pretty wrong. All of the other cash shop shit doesn't really bother me honestly.
    That's fair, I'm just whinging about the whinging of the existence of the cash shop in general more than anything. Though tbf they'd have to be careful in where they put this mount in the game. Tie it to Ultimates or PvP and you'd piss off the casual base.

    They could have done something in requiring books from A4S, A8S, and A12S along with one of the more current raids I guess, but then I'd guess the more casual crowd would complain in having to clear something current. Think they would have been damned either way.
    At times, the frequent redundancy and stupidity of these forums, turns me into an argumentative ass.

    To most of you, I apologize in advance. I will attempt to be nicer.

  4. #51444
    I am so glad I don't like most of the mounts in this game. The ARR CE coeurl is the only one I want that's going to cost extra or possibly the Regalia if they add it to the shop.

    The rest, well, I wish it were account wide. I have a hard time spending money on something only one character can use. I am guaranteed to have alts, so having to buy multiple emotes and/or glamours sucks. I tend to only buy during sales though, so it's not as bad. I still like that old event items can be purchased from the shop, better that than never being able to get something if you missed it (WoW).
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  5. #51445
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakhath View Post
    Obviously I meant a big sword or hammer. Axe is out because of Warrior, but it shouldn't be too difficult to make sense of what I said.
    Obviously thats what you mean..

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakhath View Post
    I'd love for a fun twohanded dps class of any type at this point.
    You're absolutely correct. It wasnt to hard to make sense of what you wrote.




    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    or possibly the Regalia if they add it to the shop.

    The Regalia should be up for 200,000 MGP next month. So need to buy in it in the cash shop, yet.

  6. #51446
    I spent like 20 minutes sitting in Ul'dah with a group of 20 people or so watching some random person play songs on the harp. Everyone stood up and clapped and cheered when the person finished a song. The cities actually feel alive in this game and its quite a different feeling after having played WoW for so long

  7. #51447
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    I spent like 20 minutes sitting in Ul'dah with a group of 20 people or so watching some random person play songs on the harp. Everyone stood up and clapped and cheered when the person finished a song. The cities actually feel alive in this game and its quite a different feeling after having played WoW for so long
    Wait till you encounter an entire band throwing a gig.

  8. #51448
    Quote Originally Posted by Drindorai View Post
    Two things here: It didn't really ever come off that Emet-Selch was confused by what the CRYSTAL TOWER was capable of doing, but more of how G'raha Tia as the Crystal Exarch managed to bring the tower and the Scions to the first. Which ties pretty directly into the second thing, by the time the Crystal Tower had gotten to The First, the Garlond Ironworks had heavily modified it with their artificial Alexander, pretty drastically changing how it worked. The Ascians may be immoral but they are not really omniscient.

    The Crystal Tower was meant ultimately to just usher in another Umbral Calamity by connecting to the Thirteenth (At least from the Ascians' point of view, Xande thought it was to be used to allow the Cloud of Darkness and the void into the Source to defeat his enemies by siphoning off Bahamut's power), not time and dimension travelling, that was something outside influences figured out and enacted later.
    An artificial Omega/Alexander hybrid mind you, by having that at the Crystal Towers core it influenced both space (omega's domain) and time (alexander's domain) to take it to the first. . But I don't mean to bring up an old discussion, but rather touch on

    Not to bring up an old discussion from last week, what I actually want to speak about is the nature of the machine itself, I suspect that the reason it went haywire Aka the Twinning, was because it's continued existence was a threat to the better future intended by its creators. The original Alexander was summoned by its people for a brighter future but the first thing it saw in its predictive modeling and insight into time, was that no such bright future existed as a result of its involvement. EVERY possibility ended in turning the world into a husk due to its nature as a primal. So it set about a series of events leading to not just its demise, but it being locked out of time so it couldnt be summoned again either. This makes me wonder if the Omegalander didnt do the same, the exarch has no idea why it went nuts all of a sudden but perhaps it was setting up its own demise after foreseeing that Elidibus was going to take over the crystal tower. An event which would have been several times worse if the tower still had its ability to go through space and time.

    It wasn't a primal and it's abilities weren't as extensive as either Omega and Alexander as it was hand made by the Son's of Sid, but once future events came close and clear enough for its calculations, it once again took itself out of the equation so the purpose it was designed for would be achieved.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Wait till you encounter an entire band throwing a gig.
    There are a lot of official bands now on every data center. I especially adore The Songbird's (who are present on all the US Data Center servers)
    Last edited by Tenjen; 2021-08-15 at 08:42 PM.

  9. #51449
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    A vocal minority have been grumbling about the cash shop for years, though mysteriously they're not bothered enough by such things to take a stand and vote with their wallets. They just complain about 'whales' and ignore the simple fact that MMO's are pretty good bang for their buck when accounting for the cost of the monthly subscription fee.

    It's not as though MMO's are cheap to develop and maintain, either. So the 'whales' offset the need to raise the price of a subscription fee to compensate for ongoing costs and funding issues.

    The money raised through the Mog Station is also guaranteed to be pumped back into the game and is the reason we have had server improvements over the years.
    I'm STILL waiting for Aymerics armor to be wearable by females and dyeable....

    It will be the only thing I'll ever purchase off that cash shop.

  10. #51450
    It wasn't a primal and it's abilities weren't as extensive as either Omega and Alexander as it was hand made by the Son's of Sid, but once future events came close and clear enough for its calculations, it once took itself out of the equation so the purpose it was designed for would be achieved.
    I like this interpretation of it. I think I agree.

  11. #51451
    Guess the guy deleted his post
    Last edited by babalou1; 2021-08-14 at 09:02 PM.

  12. #51452
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    I spent like 20 minutes sitting in Ul'dah with a group of 20 people or so watching some random person play songs on the harp. Everyone stood up and clapped and cheered when the person finished a song. The cities actually feel alive in this game and its quite a different feeling after having played WoW for so long
    look up the songbirds on twitch they do concerts all the time.

    Sig by Elyssia "When you do things right people won't be sure you've done anything at all"

  13. #51453
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    It wasn't necessarily a companion that I miss but the mechanics and actual interactions you could have with your pet because it had a physical presence in the world, where it could be targeted, moved, and acted as a separate entity entirely. Being able ot have your pet tank the enemy while you fired away from a distance, or captured that objective or ran away are things that are gone.
    There is room for a pet job like this. I just don't think it should be the Summoner. Summons in older FF games would show up, use their cinematic attack, then go. It felt like you were calling in a favour from an ultra powerful god like entity, there was never any kind of companionship or interaction between you and them outside of them turning your enemies into mushroom clouds.

    I think the Summoner should be that in FF14. You point and the heavens split and Ramuh smites your enemies with a lightning bolt.

    You hit the nail on the head with the reason - Any pet job should have their pet as an actual companion. One you can choose, level up, customise their skills and how they engage in combat and personalise to your hearts content. Similar, perhaps, to a BM hunter from WoW, where you can pick and choose what you want as your pet, what it looks like and which skills it has to end up with something unique to you.

    There's lots of unique interactions they could add to a job like this. Dashes where you get a quick ride from your pet, coordinated double team attacks and positional bonuses depending on where each of you are stood. Out of combat flavour skills like feeding it, grooming it, perhaps even emotes and poses for your pet too. There's a lot of room in this space for a functional job in terms of it's abilites, job fantasy and asthetics.

    The Summoner wasn't that kind of pet class. It never interacted with its pet outside of simply pointing. And that's fine, I want them to lean into that fantasy and that design more. It opens up a lot of design space for a more traditional pet job, as well as DoT orentated Mages and allows them to have that job idenity all to themselves without Summoners stepping on their toes.

  14. #51454
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    There is room for a pet job like this. I just don't think it should be the Summoner. Summons in older FF games would show up, use their cinematic attack, then go. It felt like you were calling in a favour from an ultra powerful god like entity, there was never any kind of companionship or interaction between you and them outside of them turning your enemies into mushroom clouds.

    I think the Summoner should be that in FF14. You point and the heavens split and Ramuh smites your enemies with a lightning bolt.
    While I don't necessarily disagree, the lore has already deeply established them as a pet class, calling on Egi's rather than large scale summons with massive amounts of power.

    You hit the nail on the head with the reason - Any pet job should have their pet as an actual companion. One you can choose, level up, customise their skills and how they engage in combat and personalise to your hearts content.
    I don't see this as a requirement. The Warlock in WoW doesn't have this requirement and acts just fine as a pet class.

    Similar, perhaps, to a BM hunter from WoW, where you can pick and choose what you want as your pet, what it looks like and which skills it has to end up with something unique to you.
    This would be great, but again not something I see as a hard requirement.
    There's lots of unique interactions they could add to a job like this. Dashes where you get a quick ride from your pet, coordinated double team attacks and positional bonuses depending on where each of you are stood. Out of combat flavour skills like feeding it, grooming it, perhaps even emotes and poses for your pet too. There's a lot of room in this space for a functional job in terms of it's abilites, job fantasy and asthetics.
    All of these would be cool, but again, not something I see as a hard requirement or even necessary, especially for a class that pulls these helpers out of the aether.

    The Summoner wasn't that kind of pet class. It never interacted with its pet outside of simply pointing. And that's fine, I want them to lean into that fantasy and that design more. It opens up a lot of design space for a more traditional pet job, as well as DoT orentated Mages and allows them to have that job idenity all to themselves without Summoners stepping on their toes.
    Or, they could make the Summoner what they initially actually set out to create by improving the pet AI and controls rather than what they have now. It was always intended to be a pet class. I want them to turn it into what they envisioned, not cut pieces from it just to make it work.

  15. #51455
    I don't really see how a Summoner in the classical FF sense would work in a multi-player setting.

    The idea of just doing occasional big summons to hit something really hard now and then doesn't really fit the pace of the game. You could have the Summoner cast some smaller spells to build up to a big summon, but then you've basically got what we have now with Deathflare.

    You could just remove the Egi mechanic altogether and just have a regular caster rotation with different summon-themed Deathflare-style burst mechanics I guess. That seems less interesting than what we have now, though.

    Not to mention that you can't exactly stop everything for a long animation every time the summoner wants to use a skill, of course! (Not that anyone suggested that. It's just always a big part of the theme of it though.)

  16. #51456
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    There is room for a pet job like this. I just don't think it should be the Summoner. Summons in older FF games would show up, use their cinematic attack, then go. It felt like you were calling in a favour from an ultra powerful god like entity, there was never any kind of companionship or interaction between you and them outside of them turning your enemies into mushroom clouds.
    IMO, when people think "summoner", they do think of the Yuna style of summoners who keep their summons on the battlefield permanently as a pet, not the one off cutscene attack summons like in the mainline FF games of eld. It was the former style of summoning that was more evocative and was copied in other games, not the latter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    While I don't necessarily disagree, the lore has already deeply established them as a pet class, calling on Egi's rather than large scale summons with massive amounts of power.
    I don't think lore is a credible excuse given how many times they've retconned the lore to throw in new stuff they deem cool. That said, if Square introduces Beastmaster as that permanent pet class, then I'm fine with FFXIV Summoner not fulfilling that niche. The lore can be whatever Square wants it to be ATM. If they want the lore of Summoner to command big pets on the battlefield permanently, they can do that.
    Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss; 2021-08-15 at 03:07 AM.

  17. #51457
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    IMO, when people think "summoner", they do think of the Yuna style of summoners who keep their summons on the battlefield permanently as a pet, not the one off cutscene attack summons like in the mainline FF games of eld. It was the former style of summoning that was more evocative and was copied in other games, not the latter.
    Lies, Yuna ain't shit. Rydia for life.

  18. #51458
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    IMO, when people think "summoner", they do think of the Yuna style of summoners who keep their summons on the battlefield permanently as a pet, not the one off cutscene attack summons like in the mainline FF games of eld. It was the former style of summoning that was more evocative and was copied in other games, not the latter.
    Not sure what you're basing this opinion on. And it's largely irrelevant. Who are "people" here?

    FF Summons have always typically been summon -> do big attack -> leave. FFX was really the only mainline FF that strayed from this. FFXI has a system that keeps the Summon out, too though but in that game the summons were what brought the power, the Summoner was just the thing controlling the pet and didn't really contribute much on their own.

    From the beginning, the FFXIV Summoner was receiving comments about how it doesn't really feel like a FF Summoner because it controls tiny pets that don't feel very powerful rather than the big ones that actually look and feel impactful. But FFXIV has since established the lore for why that is and created a class around that lore, with a design intent that reflected that.

    I'd rather they move forward with and make the actual class design reflect their design intent than have them take a core piece of the Summoner pet class away because they can't get the pet AI and control system to work right.

    I don't think lore is a credible excuse given how many times they've retconned the lore to throw in new stuff they deem cool.
    What lore have they retconned? I'm honestly not aware of anything, or at least anything on the scale of what it would mean to have the Summoner control large powerful summons, which would basically be a primal.

    And this wouldn't be a retcon, they'd have to completely redo the entire Summoner quest chain and story line and the underlying cornerstone lore of the world to make Summoners control large, primal-like entities.

    That said, if Square introduces Beastmaster as that permanent pet class, then I'm fine with FFXIV Summoner not fulfilling that niche.
    Why can't there be more than one pet class?

    The lore can be whatever Square wants it to be ATM. If they want the lore of Summoner to command big pets on the battlefield permanently, they can do that.
    It currently doesn't though, and based on the established lore it would be a pretty massive deal if they did that. Given that the large entities we'd be controlling would be extremely similar (if not identical) to Primals and the primary purpose of the Scions is to prevent those from popping up, as a predominant member of the Scions it would be against everything we stand for to control Primals, or Primal-like, entities.

  19. #51459
    When I first saw the summoner job I immediate thought of Yuna. Aesthetically, I was disappointed with the carbuncles and the neon colored, cartoony egi versions of the primals. The gameplay isn't terrible, although, obviously a disappointment if you were wanting MMO Yuna like I was. I think the summons could stand to use a graphical overhaul to look more badass and less jokey. Summoner's probably the job I feel the least serious on because the entire aesthetic just doesn't lend itself to that. I'm running around with a book and brightly colored balloon animals.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  20. #51460
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    I think SMN needs a rework, in a sense that the mundane pet auto-attacks need to be removed entirely and the player controls the big hits.
    That way you won't get the derpy AI-timing and get to nuke when you want to. Also, w/o basic attacks, they can make the actual hits bigger and feel more impactful.

    As for the aesthetics: I agree that a rework is in order. Although the carbuncles are quire popular, something meaner looking would bee nice. I'm against making them bigger though, blue Bahamut is already a pain in a multiplayer setting.

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