1. #51861
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinylScratch View Post
    I'd say you get that with both games honestly. XIV players who came from WoW are pretty open about what they feel XIV does better than WoW, while WoW players keep going on about how great their game is and chalk people quitting as jumping on bandwagons. Hell on the WoW general of /vg/ most of the posters there are thoroughly convinced that the XIV thread only badmouths WoW and trolls their thread with negativity. There are a lot of people actually chalking dissent towards the game state as trolling now.

    I think end of the day emotions around both games are high, both games are okay, it's okay to like both or one over the other but they really don't need to constantly be stating it.
    I never understood this religious adherence to one MMO.
    I played WoW and XIV in parallel for quite some time, until I stopped enjoying WoW. So now it's just XIV.

    Both games and communities are much more similar that either one wants to admit.
    Especially when it comes to parses and judging player performance. As a healer, I feel that the XIV community is actually more obsessed with DPS than WoW's.
    WoW definitely has the leg up when it comes to raid content, both in design, feel (8 people just isn't the same as 25) and quantity. XIV scores more on the casual side, where WoW is pretty anemic and boring to play.

    Considering that I no longer enjoy the scheduled raid playstyle and that most of my WoW buddies quit long ago, it was an easy win for XIV.

  2. #51862
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    A lot of the jobs seem to be getting two new attacks and a minor change to their job gauge.
    This could be a lot more significant than you think - It might be because they're getting new or updated mechanics and the job gauge has been changed to reflect that.

    Watch this space.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    I'm curious what the Oath gauge cost ability did (new one). I didn't see any offensive or other defensive usages of Oath. Hoping they make our gauge more interesting with DPS opportunities too.
    This always struck me as being a bit odd with the Paladin. Other tanks get exclusively offensive uses for their gauges, where the Paladin instead has only defensive uses. It does let the Paladin use Sheltron back to back which is nice, but it always felt like a choice of when you should spend the gauge, not what you should spend it on.

    The other tanks don't have much play with their resources either, you basically choose if you want single target or AoE spenders and thats it.

    I'd prefer there to be a middle ground, where you've got to choose if you want to spend it on Mitigation or Damage on all tanks. That would allow for a trim down on the number of cooldowns tanks have and allow for more player agency and skill expression.

  3. #51863
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    This could be a lot more significant than you think - It might be because they're getting new or updated mechanics and the job gauge has been changed to reflect that.

    Watch this space.



    This always struck me as being a bit odd with the Paladin. Other tanks get exclusively offensive uses for their gauges, where the Paladin instead has only defensive uses. It does let the Paladin use Sheltron back to back which is nice, but it always felt like a choice of when you should spend the gauge, not what you should spend it on.

    The other tanks don't have much play with their resources either, you basically choose if you want single target or AoE spenders and thats it.

    I'd prefer there to be a middle ground, where you've got to choose if you want to spend it on Mitigation or Damage on all tanks. That would allow for a trim down on the number of cooldowns tanks have and allow for more player agency and skill expression.
    Agreed. I was also thinking, that while the new confiteor combo is VERY cool and fantastic looking and I'm thrilled to have it,

    BUT - I wonder if it actually does anything, or is just really 3 more hits, that just do damage? I don't know necessarily that it needed to be 3 attacks? I wonder if they're learned separately, or if they're like one button pvp combo that advances through. Curious to see when the media embargo/influencer crap gets released.

  4. #51864
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    I'd prefer there to be a middle ground, where you've got to choose if you want to spend it on Mitigation or Damage on all tanks. That would allow for a trim down on the number of cooldowns tanks have and allow for more player agency and skill expression.
    The problem is that there would need to be more than just changes to Job abilities to make this happen. We already have something like this in the form of Clemency, and people lose their shit if you're "Giving up DPS for some survival".

    Any time there's a choice between damage or extra safety, people are going to say that the ONLY choice is the damage unless the encounter design absolutely forces it (See: Fights that require a tank LB3). That's just the culture of the game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    BUT - I wonder if it actually does anything, or is just really 3 more hits, that just do damage? I don't know necessarily that it needed to be 3 attacks? I wonder if they're learned separately, or if they're like one button pvp combo that advances through. Curious to see when the media embargo/influencer crap gets released.
    It looked a lot like just a plain Confitone, Confitwo, Confithree combo, but who's to say at this point.

  5. #51865
    Hi all, so I haven't played this game since Shiva raid. I want to start preparing for Endwalker. Is there anything I need to get done? I'd guess I would need to wrap up the new MSQ that were released. I saw there was recommendations to use Bozja to level up the new jobs (sage/reaper). Do I need to do stuff now to get to a point where I'd be able to use it to level effectively? Would I even be able to get to that point before the expansion launch? When would be a good time to re-sub?

  6. #51866
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackpink View Post
    Hi all, so I haven't played this game since Shiva raid. I want to start preparing for Endwalker. Is there anything I need to get done? I'd guess I would need to wrap up the new MSQ that were released. I saw there was recommendations to use Bozja to level up the new jobs (sage/reaper). Do I need to do stuff now to get to a point where I'd be able to use it to level effectively? Would I even be able to get to that point before the expansion launch? When would be a good time to re-sub?
    I'd say a good time to resub would be now. There are exactly 2 months from now until Endwalker Early Access if you pre-order. That will give you time to finish up the MSQ and go through Bozja. I agree that Bozja will be the best way to level Reaper and Sage to 80 when Endwalker drops, but doing some of the other stuff necessary to go through the story of Bozja may be more difficult. There may not be as many people doing Castrum Lacus Latore and Dalriada, but especially Delibrum Reginae as it is a queueable raid that I don't think gives any XP.

    Leveling in Bozja will mostly just consist of doing Skirmishes and Critical Engagements. You will want to try and have all 3 zones in Southern Front and Zadnor done so you can access all the skirmishes and engagements even if you don't care about the story. If you start now you should have plenty of time to get through all of it before Endwalker.

  7. #51867
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackpink View Post
    Hi all, so I haven't played this game since Shiva raid. I want to start preparing for Endwalker. Is there anything I need to get done? I'd guess I would need to wrap up the new MSQ that were released. I saw there was recommendations to use Bozja to level up the new jobs (sage/reaper). Do I need to do stuff now to get to a point where I'd be able to use it to level effectively? Would I even be able to get to that point before the expansion launch? When would be a good time to re-sub?
    If you quit at Shiva then you have about 200+ hours of story left to get all caught up to the latest patch. If you play for 2-3 hours a day you might make it in time for Endwalker. If you don't mind not doing Endwalker as soon as it is released then be prepared for spoilers to be spread everywhere online.

  8. #51868
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    If you quit at Shiva then you have about 200+ hours of story left to get all caught up to the latest patch. If you play for 2-3 hours a day you might make it in time for Endwalker. If you don't mind not doing Endwalker as soon as it is released then be prepared for spoilers to be spread everywhere online.
    They said Shiva raid, so I assume they mean E8. In which case they only have like 10ish hours of MSQ.

  9. #51869
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    I'd say a good time to resub would be now. There are exactly 2 months from now until Endwalker Early Access if you pre-order. That will give you time to finish up the MSQ and go through Bozja. I agree that Bozja will be the best way to level Reaper and Sage to 80 when Endwalker drops, but doing some of the other stuff necessary to go through the story of Bozja may be more difficult. There may not be as many people doing Castrum Lacus Latore and Dalriada, but especially Delibrum Reginae as it is a queueable raid that I don't think gives any XP.

    Leveling in Bozja will mostly just consist of doing Skirmishes and Critical Engagements. You will want to try and have all 3 zones in Southern Front and Zadnor done so you can access all the skirmishes and engagements even if you don't care about the story. If you start now you should have plenty of time to get through all of it before Endwalker.
    Cool thanks!

  10. #51870
    When does healing get easier? Getting wall-to-wall tanks in sub-30 content when most jobs don't have an AoE is brutal. There is no green DPS happening, it's just Cure spam. All new respect for healers in Toto-Rak, that place is rough.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  11. #51871
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    When does healing get easier? Getting wall-to-wall tanks in sub-30 content when most jobs don't have an AoE is brutal. There is no green DPS happening, it's just Cure spam. All new respect for healers in Toto-Rak, that place is rough.
    Once you reach level 50, at which point everyone can buy the latest tomestone gear. Tomestone gear is bought with tomestones which drop from pretty much any instances you do while playing a job that is level 50 or higher. Tomestone gear is near BIS for its bracket (Ironworks gear for level 50, Shire gear for level 60, Scaevan gear for level 70). Instances become trivial while wearing it. Tanks will stay alive longer and healers will heal more.

  12. #51872
    Once you get holy (is that 45?), trash pulls suddenly become a little less of a pain in the butt. Then when you hit 50 you get medica 2 and your 'oh shit!' button (benediction). Not of course that you should keep it as an oh shit button, its basically a dps window cleaner (by which i mean you can let the tank plummet for a while so you can squeeze out more deeps - dead/stunned mobs arent damaging your party).

    After that healing is pretty straightforward until the dungeons and trials start getting more complicated in terms of mechanics (which kind of happens around 4.3).

  13. #51873
    Brewmaster Isilrien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    When does healing get easier? Getting wall-to-wall tanks in sub-30 content when most jobs don't have an AoE is brutal. There is no green DPS happening, it's just Cure spam. All new respect for healers in Toto-Rak, that place is rough.
    Thanks for asking this. I stopped leveling my WHM and playing my SCH for this reason. My hands were shaking at the end of Toto-Rak and then Aurum Vale...ugh.
    -- FFXIV: Hyperion | DeviantART | Owl and Thistle Art --

  14. #51874
    Quote Originally Posted by Isilrien View Post
    Thanks for asking this. I stopped leveling my WHM and playing my SCH for this reason. My hands were shaking at the end of Toto-Rak and then Aurum Vale...ugh.
    Well, fair warning...the SCH fairy lets you relax more at lower levels, but at higher levels it falls off and WHM starts to feel much more comfortable between it's array of powerful oGCDs and an AoE stun in the form of Holy.

  15. #51875
    Quote Originally Posted by Isilrien View Post
    Thanks for asking this. I stopped leveling my WHM and playing my SCH for this reason. My hands were shaking at the end of Toto-Rak and then Aurum Vale...ugh.
    Post arr content (2.1-2.5), whm is the easiest job in the game. I promise. If you have your ironworks set, youre basically back to early arr dungeons. One medica 2 on a pull and its braindead. You wont be challenged by anything until the final steps of faith (3.3). And thats not even too hard if your coheals knows the fight.

    It gets better.
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-09-20 at 03:34 PM.

  16. #51876
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Any time there's a choice between damage or extra safety, people are going to say that the ONLY choice is the damage unless the encounter design absolutely forces it (See: Fights that require a tank LB3). That's just the culture of the game.
    If there was any good time to change the paradigm. a new expansion would be it. At this stage in the game I can't see Squenix making any major changes to their formula but I can dream.

    Its not a simple problem to fix and needs some major rethinks for the games combat as a whole. I don't even think Squenix consider it to be a problem at this stage, and nor do the players. As much as I'd prefer getting away from the DPS at all costs mentality, I don't see it happening.

  17. #51877
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    When does healing get easier? Getting wall-to-wall tanks in sub-30 content when most jobs don't have an AoE is brutal. There is no green DPS happening, it's just Cure spam. All new respect for healers in Toto-Rak, that place is rough.
    I'll be very blunt here. If it's difficult for you to heal, it's not on you. Healing in this game is probably the most friendly mmo in terms of individual healing skill required. It's more dependent on how good your group is. Even in Aurum Vale (the dungeon everyone hates), it was never difficult for me if I had good tank and dps.

    The only exception to this would be Sch, they're pretty brutal to play at lower levels. But you said cure...so I'm assuming whm.

  18. #51878
    Quote Originally Posted by blackpink View Post
    I'll be very blunt here. If it's difficult for you to heal, it's not on you. Healing in this game is probably the most friendly mmo in terms of individual healing skill required. It's more dependent on how good your group is. Even in Aurum Vale (the dungeon everyone hates), it was never difficult for me if I had good tank and dps.

    The only exception to this would be Sch, they're pretty brutal to play at lower levels. But you said cure...so I'm assuming whm.
    The thing is that - at early levels - you just have no tools as a healer. If the tank is pulling a ton of stuff and the DPS can't AoE it down because you have a level 31 DRG and the tank starts going down, that's just how it is.

    Granted, at low levels a single Cure is a pretty big chunk of a tank's HP. And it's not "hard" to spam Cure. But it's also all you get. So some players might feel helpless and frustrated.

  19. #51879
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    The thing is that - at early levels - you just have no tools as a healer. If the tank is pulling a ton of stuff and the DPS can't AoE it down because you have a level 31 DRG and the tank starts going down, that's just how it is.

    Granted, at low levels a single Cure is a pretty big chunk of a tank's HP. And it's not "hard" to spam Cure. But it's also all you get. So some players might feel helpless and frustrated.
    Yea I just figured they meant, the party was dying and stuff like that. That's not something a healer has any control over. That's just a bad party. As someone who may be used to healers from other games, they may feel it's their fault.

  20. #51880
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    It's really not too difficult to heal or tank at lower levels as long as nobody is actually standing in bad. Tanks actually have a decent amount of defensive options with short CDs to make bigger pulls much more manageable if they use them , even at lower levels. A lot of people forget that the knock back prevention button also serves as a 20% attack speed debuff, which is pretty good in the lower dungeons.

    There's barely any AoE damage in dungeons (again, if people don't stand in bad) so all you really need to do is keep up with the tank and only heal them. Another issue can arise however is a tank sprints before engaging in combat, and goes wall-to-wall, while the healer ends up using a sprint in combat, meaning that you can and will fall way behind if the tank doesn't stop at a certain point.

    The last point is that you sort of have to be aware of what DPS you have in your group. Tanks I'd argue have an advantage that they're really easy to pick up (seriously, people shouldn't be afraid of tanking in FF14, it's also one of the best ways to learn encounters because mistakes won't outright kill you), have easy to understand AoE right from the get go and enough tools to be defensively sound at any level of content. DPS are sort of the opposite. Some DPS jobs have downright awful AoE that either doesn't exist until certain leveling thresholds, sucks based on the class you're playing, or takes a bit to setup (this ones a bit more rare). Another thing to consider, and this is especially true for jobs that start at 50 and 60 (the DPS ones anyway), you get thrown dozens of abilities it's a bit confusing to figure out how to play them innately. Lastly, some people even you're super nice about giving advice, just refuse to AoE (or sometimes even contribute at all to the group).

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