1. #51881
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    It looked a lot like just a plain Confitone, Confitwo, Confithree combo, but who's to say at this point.
    Yeah, but I really hope they don't do that. That's reallllllly boring even if it's the most stunning attack sequence to ever grace an MMO (imo).

  2. #51882
    Brewmaster Isilrien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Well, fair warning...the SCH fairy lets you relax more at lower levels, but at higher levels it falls off and WHM starts to feel much more comfortable between it's array of powerful oGCDs and an AoE stun in the form of Holy.
    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    Post arr content (2.1-2.5), whm is the easiest job in the game. I promise. If you have your ironworks set, youre basically back to early arr dungeons. One medica 2 on a pull and its braindead. You wont be challenged by anything until the final steps of faith (3.3). And thats not even too hard if your coheals knows the fight.

    It gets better.
    Thank you to you both for the encouragement and comments! I appreciate them <3
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  3. #51883
    Thanks for the advice, everyone. It looks like level 46 for Holy, but I'll probably keep getting synced to a lower level until I have level 50+ gear. (Currently level 38.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Isilrien View Post
    Thanks for asking this. I stopped leveling my WHM and playing my SCH for this reason. My hands were shaking at the end of Toto-Rak and then Aurum Vale...ugh.
    I kept getting Toto-Rak in roulettes, after about 3 groups with overzealous tanks I had to take a break. It's so stressful between having to make sure I'm running with the tank so I don't get locked out by webbing (most tanks haven't been mindful of this) and the poisons. There's no way to fit in any DPS during trash pulls when the tank goes from full HP to 30% in one GCD. Even on bosses, I would have to weave Stone->Cure->Stone->Cure.

    I'm at the level where I run the risk of getting Sunken Temple of Qarn or Cutter's Cry now and I dread it. I may have to look into PoTD again or some other leveling alternative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Tanks actually have a decent amount of defensive options with short CDs to make bigger pulls much more manageable if they use them , even at lower levels. A lot of people forget that the knock back prevention button also serves as a 20% attack speed debuff, which is pretty good in the lower dungeons.
    One particularly squishy PLD I noticed wasn't using Rampart on large pulls. I usually pop that on 4+ mobs when I tank. That one was especially dicey, even Cure spam barely kept him alive.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  4. #51884
    Quote Originally Posted by blackpink View Post
    Yea I just figured they meant, the party was dying and stuff like that. That's not something a healer has any control over. That's just a bad party. As someone who may be used to healers from other games, they may feel it's their fault.
    Aye, I guess that's the issue. Healer is really stressful for some people, because they feel they fucked up when it's not going well. It can very well be, but it can also be others at fault, or a combination. It could also just be gear - especially while leveling - and that people are too used to large pulls and don't take that into consideration. I once had a wipe like that, also on WHM, where the tank was just dropping even with CDs and spamming my largest heal available at that level.

    About the SCH vs WHM: at lower levels, I found SCH to be much easier. The fairy heals a lot, and you get Aetherflow earlier than the WHM gets his/her tools beyond the basic heals. My WHM is now in the mid 50 range, and it started to really open up with 50, and is getting even better around now. Can't say how it will be later in game, though. But from what I've seen till now it develops in this direction: SCH may have a bit more potential, but requires good play of you AND your party, and you have to know the encounters - it's much more proactive play. In any other case, WHM seems to be better, as you will have more tools to react to stuff - fails from yourself, the party, or just when learning new encounters. In terms of damage, SCH does more aoe and WHM more single target till now. But I've seen WHM actually gets good additional damage tools later on, whereas SCH only gets a few buffs to the single target. And the SCH aoe stays the same from somewhere mid 50 iirc till 80, so that will drop off A LOT in comparison.

  5. #51885
    So am i crazy or is Sages job gauge a straight up ATB gauge?
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  6. #51886
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    When does healing get easier? Getting wall-to-wall tanks in sub-30 content when most jobs don't have an AoE is brutal. There is no green DPS happening, it's just Cure spam. All new respect for healers in Toto-Rak, that place is rough.
    Honestly, that sounds like a scrub tank. There is no point in wall to wall pulling at lower level dungeons cause peeps don't have AoE damage.
    Maybe the tank thinks they can do it with their one aoe ability, but he is missing the healer dps, so i dunno if it's a net positive.
    Indeed it's an unecessary straining of the healer and likely will lead to a wipe.

    Other factors come in as well such as the gear the tank is using and if he is popping defensives.

    Either way, don't judge healing for what it is at sub 30. You don't even cast cure at max level. You have completely different tools.

    Hint for the way, wich i didn't discover until much later... Holy stuns enemies. It's preventive healing.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2021-09-21 at 12:26 PM.

  7. #51887
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    So am i crazy or is Sages job gauge a straight up ATB gauge?
    LOL, it does look that way, but it's just a timer where they get a charge every 10 seconds? is what it looked like. But yeah, it definitely looks like an ATB gauge.

  8. #51888
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Honestly, that sounds like a scrub tank.
    It's most of them, unfortunately. No sprout icon = 9 times out of 10 I'm going to have a hard time because they just keep running and pull everything. Sprout icon = 50/50 chance I've got either a new/cautious tank or another mass puller (worse because the sprouts don't tend to use their defensive cooldowns). One time a tank stopped and said, "I'm the only one with an AoE at this level, aren't I?" They quit pulling so much after that.

    It does feel like a me thing though when I get into groups as DPS with a non-sprout healer who says "go big on pulls" and only once has it resulted in a wipe. I mean, it's possible to keep most tanks up with Cure spam (I haven't had one die on me yet though it's gotten close), it's just not fun. It's also making me self conscious about tanking. I don't tend to pull much because I don't see the point with no DPS AoE and I do think it's a loss of DPS when the healer can't contribute, but that's what most groups do and seem to expect.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  9. #51889
    Scarab Lord Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    When does healing get easier? Getting wall-to-wall tanks in sub-30 content when most jobs don't have an AoE is brutal. There is no green DPS happening, it's just Cure spam. All new respect for healers in Toto-Rak, that place is rough.
    Ask the tanks to slow down. It's not like the group can nuke mobs when they don't even have great DPS at low levels

    I usually pull 5-6 mobs on low levels. But I keep an eye on the healer to see if they are comfortable or I just ask straight away if they are ok with it
    Last edited by Maljinwo; 2021-09-21 at 02:25 PM.
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  10. #51890
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    It's really not too difficult to heal or tank at lower levels as long as nobody is actually standing in bad. Tanks actually have a decent amount of defensive options with short CDs to make bigger pulls much more manageable if they use them , even at lower levels. A lot of people forget that the knock back prevention button also serves as a 20% attack speed debuff, which is pretty good in the lower dungeons.

    There's barely any AoE damage in dungeons (again, if people don't stand in bad) so all you really need to do is keep up with the tank and only heal them. Another issue can arise however is a tank sprints before engaging in combat, and goes wall-to-wall, while the healer ends up using a sprint in combat, meaning that you can and will fall way behind if the tank doesn't stop at a certain point.

    The last point is that you sort of have to be aware of what DPS you have in your group. Tanks I'd argue have an advantage that they're really easy to pick up (seriously, people shouldn't be afraid of tanking in FF14, it's also one of the best ways to learn encounters because mistakes won't outright kill you), have easy to understand AoE right from the get go and enough tools to be defensively sound at any level of content. DPS are sort of the opposite. Some DPS jobs have downright awful AoE that either doesn't exist until certain leveling thresholds, sucks based on the class you're playing, or takes a bit to setup (this ones a bit more rare). Another thing to consider, and this is especially true for jobs that start at 50 and 60 (the DPS ones anyway), you get thrown dozens of abilities it's a bit confusing to figure out how to play them innately. Lastly, some people even you're super nice about giving advice, just refuse to AoE (or sometimes even contribute at all to the group).
    i had all phys ranged, all melee, and 3 tanks maxed before i knew about the slow on arms length lol.

  11. #51891
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Ask the tanks to slow down. It's not like the group can nuke mobs when they don't even have great DPS at low levels

    I usually pull 5-6 mobs on low levels. But I keep an eye on the healer to see if they are comfortable or I just ask straight away if they are ok with it
    I once had a healer that flat out didn't even have Sprint on their bar and therefore refused to use it. I used it without asking and ended up way ahead of the healer and ended up wiping the group because I ended up LoS and low health and they couldn't recover fast enough. They let me know the sprint thing. While I thought it was weird and kind of dumb, we never had any issues after that.

    Communication is key.

    This was in Toto-Rak, by the way. It was me as GLD, WHM, BRD and MCH (so we had PLENTY of AoE with those two DPS and me), so pulling wall to wall was a breeze, so long as the healer was there with me.

  12. #51892
    Brewmaster Isilrien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Thanks for the advice, everyone. It looks like level 46 for Holy, but I'll probably keep getting synced to a lower level until I have level 50+ gear. (Currently level 38.)



    I kept getting Toto-Rak in roulettes, after about 3 groups with overzealous tanks I had to take a break. It's so stressful between having to make sure I'm running with the tank so I don't get locked out by webbing (most tanks haven't been mindful of this) and the poisons. There's no way to fit in any DPS during trash pulls when the tank goes from full HP to 30% in one GCD. Even on bosses, I would have to weave Stone->Cure->Stone->Cure.

    I'm at the level where I run the risk of getting Sunken Temple of Qarn or Cutter's Cry now and I dread it. I may have to look into PoTD again or some other leveling alternative.



    One particularly squishy PLD I noticed wasn't using Rampart on large pulls. I usually pop that on 4+ mobs when I tank. That one was especially dicey, even Cure spam barely kept him alive.
    That's been exactly my experience, too, with rare exceptions. I'm also looking at leveling outside of dungeons until I get higher level and then maybe I'll try again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostfred View Post
    Aye, I guess that's the issue. Healer is really stressful for some people, because they feel they fucked up when it's not going well. It can very well be, but it can also be others at fault, or a combination. It could also just be gear - especially while leveling - and that people are too used to large pulls and don't take that into consideration. I once had a wipe like that, also on WHM, where the tank was just dropping even with CDs and spamming my largest heal available at that level...
    I know I'm human and things sometimes don't go well for the reasons you've listed and for other reasons. When you get blamed by the tank and one of the DPS, however, then you rapidly lose interest in playing as a healer (even though you prefer it so much that you've healed in various MMOs for around 20 years). Granted, that happened once but it left a bad taste in my mouth because I was asked to shoulder all responsibility.
    Last edited by Isilrien; 2021-09-21 at 04:01 PM.
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  13. #51893
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nasuuna View Post
    i had all phys ranged, all melee, and 3 tanks maxed before i knew about the slow on arms length lol.
    The wording is kind of confusing if you read it for what it is lol.

  14. #51894
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I once had a healer that flat out didn't even have Sprint on their bar and therefore refused to use it. I used it without asking and ended up way ahead of the healer and ended up wiping the group because I ended up LoS and low health and they couldn't recover fast enough. They let me know the sprint thing. While I thought it was weird and kind of dumb, we never had any issues after that.

    Communication is key.

    This was in Toto-Rak, by the way. It was me as GLD, WHM, BRD and MCH (so we had PLENTY of AoE with those two DPS and me), so pulling wall to wall was a breeze, so long as the healer was there with me.
    I just want to add there: healers have, in general, no instant heals available at these low levels, which could be cast on the move. It can happen, that the tank takes some damage while pulling and continues to run. On one hand, you can lose range as a healer if you stand and cast a heal. On the other hand, if you don't, it can happen that as soon as the tank stops to run and takes the hits of all mobs, he dies before your first heal is through. That's another reason for SCH to be imo easier at low level compared to WHM: the faerie can heal quite a bit even on the move. There are sometimes (very rare, though) also things in the middle of the room which break LOS. I almost had a tank die in Halatali after my heal was broken, because he just moved around a pillar shortly before it was through. I had to run quite a lot till I got him in LOS again, as he was just staying behind it.

    But ofc things like that get better with experience as a healer, and you also learn to deal with different types of tanks and instances, and how to adjust your positioning as well. After 45 or so, I want to stay in melee range to all the mobs anyway to SLAP THAT GROUND (as SCH).

    [e]
    Quote Originally Posted by Isilrien View Post
    I know I'm human and things sometimes don't go well for the reasons you've listed and for other reasons. When you get blamed by the tank and one of the DPS, however, then you rapidly lose interest in playing as a healer (even though you prefer it so much that you've healed in various MMOs for around 20 years). Granted, that happened once but it left a bad taste in my mouth because I was asked to shoulder all responsibility.
    Aye, that can be annoying. When you fuck up as a healer, the consequences can be quite harsh. Even if you don't fuck up, people often are quick to blame you when something's not going well. Though, to be honest, I've been lucky till now in that regard. I've never been called out for, and if I failed, I knew myself. If it's something major and leads to a wipe, I usually always say sorry in the chat and that it was my fault - never had a negative reaction to that in FF14.

    On the other hand, when a run is going really smooth (which almost all dungeon runs usually do), people are quick to commend and be nice to the healer and tank. The role of the DPS somehow gets undervalued at times, for the better or worse.
    Last edited by Frostfred; 2021-09-21 at 07:18 PM.

  15. #51895
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostfred View Post
    I just want to add there: healers have, in general, no instant heals available at these low levels, which could be cast on the move. It can happen, that the tank takes some damage while pulling and continues to run. On one hand, you can lose range as a healer if you stand and cast a heal. On the other hand, if you don't, it can happen that as soon as the tank stops to run and takes the hits of all mobs, he dies before your first heal is through. That's another reason for SCH to be imo easier at low level compared to WHM: the faerie can heal quite a bit even on the move. There are sometimes (very rare, though) also things in the middle of the room which break LOS. I almost had a tank die in Halatali after my heal was broken, because he just moved around a pillar shortly before it was through. I had to run quite a lot till I got him in LOS again, as he was just staying behind it.

    But ofc things like that get better with experience as a healer, and you also learn to deal with different types of tanks and instances, and how to adjust your positioning as well. After 45 or so, I want to stay in melee range to all the mobs anyway to SLAP THAT GROUND (as SCH).
    For clarification, this was not a noob healer, it was a veteran one from my FC who has been playing since 2.0 in ilevel 510+ healing gear. I knew that going into it (as I was leveling my alt tank through the MSQ and my FC volunteered to help me out) so didn't even think twice about wall to wall pulling, which I have done countless times before in Toto Rak on my main. They told me not to sprint because they didn't have it on their bars because they said they didn't have room and refused to make room for it and I was a bit floored (no pun intended) after we wiped. Like, stunned silence blinking at the screen for a few seconds.

    BUT, after they let me know and I stayed with the group with no sprinting, everything went very smoothly. I still think the reasoning is ridiculous, but after communicating and understanding, the group was fine and the rest of the dungeon went flawlessly. I'm focusing on the communication part rather than their reasoning, because their reasoning is irrelevant, IMO. The group knowing how to function together due to communicating is what made things go smoothly after the little hiccup at the beginning.

  16. #51896
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    I kept getting Toto-Rak in roulettes, after about 3 groups with overzealous tanks I had to take a break. It's so stressful between having to make sure I'm running with the tank so I don't get locked out by webbing (most tanks haven't been mindful of this) and the poisons. There's no way to fit in any DPS during trash pulls when the tank goes from full HP to 30% in one GCD.
    Use Rescue. They get the message pretty quick when you physically stop them doing big pulls and stop them running off. They won't like it, but they'll stop doing it.

    Plus it's probably the only effective use of Rescue you'll get. So there is that.

  17. #51897
    I'm contemplating using a Fantasia to switch my character from Face 1 to Face 2. It feels like overkill, though. However, it would be my original Fantasia from the MSQ from way back when.

    The hair stylist guy is just hair style and hair color, right?

  18. #51898
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RohanV View Post
    I'm contemplating using a Fantasia to switch my character from Face 1 to Face 2. It feels like overkill, though. However, it would be my original Fantasia from the MSQ from way back when.

    The hair stylist guy is just hair style and hair color, right?
    He also does like face paint and facial features like scars and other stuff that is more specific to the different races. Basically changing your face shape, skin color, voice, and body stuff like height, bust size, and physique require a fantasia.

    Personally, I'd say do it. You got the Fantasia for free and we already have a decent idea of what the future races will be like. We know what bunny boys will be like and the only other race we're getting is Female Hrothgar, so you don't really have to worry about them adding another race that you'll want to fantasia into down the road unless you want to change into a bunny boy or fem Hrothgar.

  19. #51899
    Quote Originally Posted by RohanV View Post
    I'm contemplating using a Fantasia to switch my character from Face 1 to Face 2. It feels like overkill, though. However, it would be my original Fantasia from the MSQ from way back when.

    The hair stylist guy is just hair style and hair color, right?
    If it makes you feel any better, I've used mine to adjust eye color a little bit. (Granted I will never change race, I just make more alts.)

  20. #51900
    I managed to get Sunken Temple of Qarn for roulette on my NIN, it's one I've been dreading. I'd watched a guide just in case and I'm so glad I did. I was the only one focusing bees and thankfully discovered their Final Sting (one-shot ability) has a cast time and can be stunned. Aside from the tank dying to Doom on the first boss, it was a surprisingly easy run. Not sure I'd want to have to heal it though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isilrien View Post
    That's been exactly my experience, too, with rare exceptions. I'm also looking at leveling outside of dungeons until I get higher level and then maybe I'll try again.
    I usually use my daily roulette bonus on a DPS then single queue for dungeons I'm comfortable doing on healer. Copperbell Mines, for example, is healer friendly because the mobs reset if they're dragged too far making big pulls impossible until the area before the last boss. Half the time the roulette bonus is for tanks in need anyway and the queue time for healers is still less than a minute. It might not be the most efficient way of doing things, but it works well enough for me. I still haven't tried Guildhests, I don't know if those are worth it?

    Once I get Holy I figure farming FATEs will be a lot easier. I have managed to solo (with chocobo) a couple of the boss ones for a decent chunk of EXP, but the ones with multiple mobs are a chore with only Stone & Aero. I've also been working on my Hunting Log.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    Use Rescue.
    No Rescue until level 48.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

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