1. #51901
    Using Rescue just to disrupt how someone is playing just because you don't like it is probably a recipe for nothing good to happen, honestly.

  2. #51902
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    Use Rescue. They get the message pretty quick when you physically stop them doing big pulls and stop them running off. They won't like it, but they'll stop doing it.

    Plus it's probably the only effective use of Rescue you'll get. So there is that.
    Rescue has a lot of effective usages.

    Trolling other people with it, is NOT one of them. Do it a few times in a dungeon and you will get reported.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RohanV View Post
    I'm contemplating using a Fantasia to switch my character from Face 1 to Face 2. It feels like overkill, though. However, it would be my original Fantasia from the MSQ from way back when.

    The hair stylist guy is just hair style and hair color, right?
    You also get facial markings, make up, and some racial options (i.e.: my Au Ra can change scales and horn rings iirc)
    @Overkill: Well, i shouldn't talk about that - and while i haven't changed race in 2 years - i chugged about 5 fantasia alone this year to make small corrections (eye color, nose etc.)

  3. #51903
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    I managed to get Sunken Temple of Qarn for roulette on my NIN, it's one I've been dreading. I'd watched a guide just in case and I'm so glad I did. I was the only one focusing bees and thankfully discovered their Final Sting (one-shot ability) has a cast time and can be stunned. Aside from the tank dying to Doom on the first boss, it was a surprisingly easy run. Not sure I'd want to have to heal it though.
    It's not bad to heal if the tank and DPS know what they're doing, IMO.

    I usually use my daily roulette bonus on a DPS then single queue for dungeons I'm comfortable doing on healer. Copperbell Mines, for example, is healer friendly because the mobs reset if they're dragged too far making big pulls impossible until the area before the last boss. Half the time the roulette bonus is for tanks in need anyway and the queue time for healers is still less than a minute. It might not be the most efficient way of doing things, but it works well enough for me. I still haven't tried Guildhests, I don't know if those are worth it?
    Guildhests are not worth it. Wait times are usually pretty long, in my experience, and the xp you get is pitiful. The challenge log challenge to do 10 of them results in a decent amount of xp, but you're far better off just doing other dungeons with the time you'd spend doing guildhests IMO.

    Once I get Holy I figure farming FATEs will be a lot easier. I have managed to solo (with chocobo) a couple of the boss ones for a decent chunk of EXP, but the ones with multiple mobs are a chore with only Stone & Aero. I've also been working on my Hunting Log.
    I'm not sure FATE farming (especially solo) at low levels is a worthwhile time expenditure, unless you're just trying to shake things up and not do dungeons all the time.

    Highest dungeon you can do typically gives FAR better xp/hour. Palace of the Dead is good too, but it does get boring. At higher levels in zones with groups doing it, FATE farming can come close to PotD for xp/hour.

    But, all of this is assuming you're focused entirely on optimizing your xp/hour and nothing else. If you're having fun doing what you're doing, don't change it. Nothing worse than having a game you enjoy feel like a chore and getting disheartened from playing. Do what you enjoy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    Use Rescue. They get the message pretty quick when you physically stop them doing big pulls and stop them running off. They won't like it, but they'll stop doing it.

    Plus it's probably the only effective use of Rescue you'll get. So there is that.
    This is some really bad advice, IMO.

    It won't stop anyone from doing big pulls if they really want to and will do nothing but piss them off.

    Using words to communicate is FAR better than trolling someone.

  4. #51904
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Rescue has a lot of effective usages.
    The most effective of which is stopping people from dying because they screwed up. Not letting them overpull and die is one of those uses, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    This is some really bad advice, IMO.

    It won't stop anyone from doing big pulls if they really want to and will do nothing but piss them off.

    Using words to communicate is FAR better than trolling someone.
    Healers do it to me all the time. I've done it to other tanks on occasion too, it's a reasonably common thing to see in my groups when I'm DPSing. It's always been understood as a universal "don't pull any more" in all situations.

    It could just be something that happens on my data center perhaps, but I was under the impression it was widely used and understood. Apparently I was wrong on that count.

  5. #51905
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    But, all of this is assuming you're focused entirely on optimizing your xp/hour and nothing else. If you're having fun doing what you're doing, don't change it. Nothing worse than having a game you enjoy feel like a chore and getting disheartened from playing. Do what you enjoy.
    FATEs and Hunting Log are my jam. I'm disappointed they didn't continue the latter after ARR. I'm getting to the level where I can just hang out in Coerthas and do FATEs, which is my favorite. I used to not do the boss ones, but they're fun on DRK.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  6. #51906
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    The most effective of which is stopping people from dying because they screwed up. Not letting them overpull and die is one of those uses, imo.
    That may be your opinion, but e.g. it is used in many E9S strategies to handle some mechanics better/easier/more efficient - without anyboy screwing up.

  7. #51907
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    The most effective of which is stopping people from dying because they screwed up. Not letting them overpull and die is one of those uses, imo.
    Using words would be more effective, IMO. Since there's many other uses for Rescue, it could be misinterpreted easily, or the person literally has no idea what's going on. Actual words, if you use the right ones, would not be so easily misinterpreted.

    Healers do it to me all the time. I've done it to other tanks on occasion too, it's a reasonably common thing to see in my groups when I'm DPSing. It's always been understood as a universal "don't pull any more" in all situations.

    It could just be something that happens on my data center perhaps, but I was under the impression it was widely used and understood. Apparently I was wrong on that count.
    I've never heard it being used for this purpose, seen it used multiple times to pull people out of AoE or to pull the dumb DPS with aggro towards the tank so they could pull aggro off them.

    I'll keep an eye out to see if I'm just not paying attention, though.

  8. #51908
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    That may be your opinion, but e.g. it is used in many E9S strategies to handle some mechanics better/easier/more efficient - without anyboy screwing up.
    I won't say it's the only use, but I know from personal experience I've used it a lot more for pulling people out of one shot AoE's and more commonly still from being knocked off platforms due to mechanics. (Or backflips)

    For the average player, it'll almost exclusively be used as a reaction to people failing mechanics than as intentional part of their strategy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I've never heard it being used for this purpose, seen it used multiple times to pull people out of AoE or to pull the dumb DPS with aggro towards the tank so they could pull aggro off them.
    Given the reaction, nor have others. Thats why I'm inclined to believe it may simply be a trend on my Data Center rather than one that's widely used. YMMV,

  9. #51909
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    The most effective of which is stopping people from dying because they screwed up. Not letting them overpull and die is one of those uses, imo.



    Healers do it to me all the time. I've done it to other tanks on occasion too, it's a reasonably common thing to see in my groups when I'm DPSing. It's always been understood as a universal "don't pull any more" in all situations.

    It could just be something that happens on my data center perhaps, but I was under the impression it was widely used and understood. Apparently I was wrong on that count.
    There's no such thing as overpulling.

  10. #51910
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiggestNoob View Post
    There's no such thing as overpulling.
    There is for beginners of the game.
    Sure, us veterans can't overpull anymore.

  11. #51911
    Considering my Halatali group wiped because the tank pulled more than I could heal for I don't see how anyone can say there's no such thing as overpulling.

    Unless there's some secret here I'm missing to keep a low level tank up against 8 mobs as a low level healer, in which case please share.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  12. #51912
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Considering my Halatali group wiped because the tank pulled more than I could heal for I don't see how anyone can say there's no such thing as overpulling.

    Unless there's some secret here I'm missing to keep a low level tank up against 8 mobs as a low level healer, in which case please share.
    In most dungeons anymore, it's practically impossible to overpull, given the mob segregation and forced pauses and walls and stuff. Dungeons at that level mean the players have practically full tool kits.

    In some of the lower level dungeons (by that I mean 50 and below) it's still possible because there's not as much segregation between mob sections so you can pull WAY more than you should, and classes don't have nearly their full toolkit to be able to compensate for the incoming damage.

    As @Granyala said, beginners can overpull easily by biting off more than they can chew. Veterans won't because they're more aware of how much they can't and can't handle...usually because they were a beginner once and died by overpulling, lol.

  13. #51913
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    It's only really possible to overpull in the pre-50 ARR dungeons, as 1. those are the only dungeons in which you can pull more than 3 packs at once in between boss fights, and 2. you don't have access to overpowered tomestone gear that trivializes the numbers.

  14. #51914
    Quote Originally Posted by Isilrien View Post
    Thanks for asking this. I stopped leveling my WHM and playing my SCH for this reason. My hands were shaking at the end of Toto-Rak and then Aurum Vale...ugh.
    SCH later on becomes more difficult from a regular healing standpoint because its kit is centered on proactive healing and shielding. Predicting and denying incoming damage. It will not have as much burst potential and reactive healing tools as other healers.

  15. #51915
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Considering my Halatali group wiped because the tank pulled more than I could heal for I don't see how anyone can say there's no such thing as overpulling.

    Unless there's some secret here I'm missing to keep a low level tank up against 8 mobs as a low level healer, in which case please share.
    As others have stated that can only happen in legacy dungeons (the 1.0 dungeons) that were left in the sub 50 MSQ. There aren't a ton of them, but they certainly exist and you could possibly pull way too many mobs there. You can to some degree still prevent a wipe if everyone is well geared for whatever level the dungeon is (very unlikely for sprouts) and pushes buttons as frequently as they should, but again both these traits are very rare for existing players, let alone new ones..

  16. #51916
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    SCH later on becomes more difficult from a regular healing standpoint because its kit is centered on proactive healing and shielding. Predicting and denying incoming damage. It will not have as much burst potential and reactive healing tools as other healers.
    That's why I like about the Scholar... they theme it around strategy and tactics, and to play optimally, you actively need to know the fight you're engaging in.

  17. #51917
    Heals get way easier at level 50. Well... whm does. All white mages. Once you get medica 2, the literal only choice you face is whether to heal your tank at 60% (with cure 2) or 1hp (with benediction). The rest of the time you're dpsing.

    Val keeps mentioning allagan gear and yes, it really helps (and carried me all the way through hw 3.0). But its the medica 2 crutch that makes you think 'this is the easiest class you can ever play in game!' No rotation. No looking at the boss to see which weapon theyre holding to tell you what tankbuster is coming... you just medica 2... wait, then medica 2 again.

    Your literal next test is 3.3 and the final steps of faith... and even then, youve got another healer to cover you (which you aint gonna need as a whm because we have medica 2). Oh, and now you have off global cd lily heals for tanks... this is super easy. Then at 60 you get a second benediction (tetra).

    Stormblood: What do you get? Oh! a shield spell. You gonna use this in trusts (so you can deeps a bit more). But in df groups, maybe not. You have a solid tool kit at this point. Medica 2 is your basic crutch. Afflatus solus is your insta on the move cast, cure 2 when you wanna pick someone up and are chilling, regen to pick up everyone else between mechanics, and benediction to scare the pants out of your tank).
    Shb: Affaltus misery and afflatus rapture (now youre an insta cast healer). Cure 2 no longer is a thing. You now have a shield (divine benison) a dot heal (regen), an aoe heal (afflatus rapture - but still medica 2 (or cure 3 if stacked) for the hell of it). Afflatus misery to pretend youre an aoe dpser. *assize is the literal best aoe you have i currently believe based on current in game experience (proc this every time its up in aoes)).

    Temperance (wings) if youre in savages or if you just want to flex in normal dungeons. (you dont need this in normal dungeons - this is a squeeze button for actually decent players).

    Point is, level 1-49 as a whm (sorry, thats my only experience, though i wanna level sch and ast)), youre a reaction healer... damage comes in, you need to preempt it a bit to get in position and start firing those casts out.

    From 50-69 you have way more skills to keep people up (medica 2 (a MASSIVE heal), benediction (let your tank panic), and afflatus solas (insta heal every 30 seconds)) Youre becoming a 'movement based spot/pre-emptive healer. You regen everyone (medica 2 (and regen in downtime), but your job is to dot heal everyone (in range), then let them figure out mechanics. Then res them when they dont.

    From 70-80 you are an insta cast healer with support heal gaps. You collect lilies. You use them for aoe healing. Medica 2 is now just an enhancement... kinda like cure 3 30 or so levels ago. Cast if youre worried and need to bolster your afflatus rapture. Then cure 3 for the hell of it because your mana pool no longer is a thing. But you still have that mana regen spell... so anytime you need to be greedy. Be greedy. The point is, your job is to survive, keep everyone alive, then dps between the actual mechanics. Try not to die and ruin your co-heals mana pool.

    Point is, mechanics are a much bigger (one shot) deal. Healing (itself) is still super easy (so long as people dont screw up mechanics, but if they do, better hope your mana regen isnt on cd).

    But you still have all the spot heal stuff you always had (cure 2, regen, bene, tetra, benison). Master this and healing (on a whm) is super easy (at least for the story).
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-09-24 at 01:12 PM.

  18. #51918
    Scarab Lord Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Healers need to stop DPSing and heal their tank when it's at less than 20%

    Honestly, that run I had with an Astrologian who only spammed Gravity was terrifying.
    I did get a good use of Superbolide at least
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  19. #51919
    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    Heals get way easier at level 50. Well... whm does. All white mages. Once you get medica 2, the literal only choice you face is whether to heal your tank at 60% (with cure 2) or 1hp (with benediction). The rest of the time you're dpsing.

    Val keeps mentioning allagan gear and yes, it really helps (and carried me all the way through hw 3.0). But its the medica 2 crutch that makes you think 'this is the easiest class you can ever play in game!' No rotation. No looking at the boss to see which weapon theyre holding to tell you what tankbuster is coming... you just medica 2... wait, then medica 2 again.
    Not sure I'd get in the habit of this too much. Medica 2 is low potency, and the Regen effect much smaller than the actual Regen spell. It's also more mana than most spells, though this isn't an issue in shorter fights.

    Unless there's actual group damage going out and you need an AoE heal - and you're sure the Regen won't be wasted, in which case Medica 1 is actually much better - it's not a good idea to just keep using Medica 2 constantly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Healers need to stop DPSing and heal their tank when it's at less than 20%

    Honestly, that run I had with an Astrologian who only spammed Gravity was terrifying.
    I did get a good use of Superbolide at least
    Hey, pipe down over there, if you're alive to complain then what's the problem?

  20. #51920
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Healers need to stop DPSing and heal their tank when it's at less than 20%

    Honestly, that run I had with an Astrologian who only spammed Gravity was terrifying.
    I did get a good use of Superbolide at least
    Tell that to the ff14 community.

    Im not being a jerk. This is the meta. Healers who solely heal are currently the worst players in the game. I learned this (luckily) very early on. My job is literally 80% dps, 20% healing. If you wanna unbalance this, then tanks do less mitigation and/or dps take more pulsing damage and/or more dispelling needs to happen (with my one single target dispel on a 2.5sec gcd). All of this sounds like a reason i'd never want to play a healer ever again.
    The thing is, you need to make heals and tanks super braindead or no one wants to play them. Make them really narrow in high end content. But in story, they need to be so much more fun than dps or you have massive dps queues for duty finder dungeons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Not sure I'd get in the habit of this too much. Medica 2 is low potency, and the Regen effect much smaller than the actual Regen spell. It's also more mana than most spells, though this isn't an issue in shorter fights.

    Unless there's actual group damage going out and you need an AoE heal - and you're sure the Regen won't be wasted, in which case Medica 1 is actually much better - it's not a good idea to just keep using Medica 2 constantly.

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    Hey, pipe down over there, if you're alive to complain then what's the problem?
    I get the point. but its super effective. On paper it might lack something. But in game, medica 2 is ultra powerful as a crutch heal. Not only does it flatten incoming damage (multiply it with benison and regen if you need to), but it grants you time to utilise your entire tool-kit and never have want for mana. The literal last time i struggled with mana was... i forget... i think it was a level 30ish dungeon? (it had dragons in it, and was the first and last time i worried about mana - i think it was the airship quest).

    Pre 50 (especially 40-50 dungeons are hard as a heal - but thats because you havent yet embraced the incredible power of holy quite yet), its tough. Once you get holy (goodbye trash issues), and medica 2 (goodbye aoe damage), all you have to think about is burst. And at 50 you get an oh shit (bene) button. The class is starting to make sense.

    And prospective whm's... it actually gets easier here on in. Whm is... White mage, i, ippollite believe, is such a good class at end game. I think i have every single skill available to me to save any single idiot who didnt listen. (thanks rescue).
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-09-24 at 01:39 PM.

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