1. #52401
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    There was also more MSQ content. You can't just compare things 1 to 1, you have to look at the overall package. The cutscenes were far longer in Endwalker than even in Shadowbringers. There were also way more side quests in each of the zones for both ShB and Endwalker compared to SB. Additionally, the ShB role quests spun off into the Void Questline.

    Now you can disagree with where they've placed their resources, but say that it's less content seems disingenuous. Someone even wrote up a google doc of how many cutscenes there are in each expansion and Endwalker have over double the total cutscenes of the 4.0 MSQ with SB having 11 hours and 32 minutes of cutscenes and Endwalker having 23 hours and 37 minutes of cutscenes. Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1827500247
    Val keeps spouting that line about less content convenient forgetting things like Bozja with its 3 raids, 1 solo/ex, and 2 zones. Or things like the void quest line or solo instances like Sapphire weapon.

  2. #52402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thestrawman View Post
    Val keeps spouting that line about less content convenient forgetting things like Bozja with its 3 raids, 1 solo/ex, and 2 zones. Or things like the void quest line or solo instances like Sapphire weapon.
    Yeah, I mean they've said they've increased their team size. Like do people think they're just dicking around? The only complaint I think is fair is the lack of a second Ultimate in ShB, but COVID hit them and everyone else hard and they had to cut it so their team could focus on Endwalker content. It sucks for hardcore players, but it makes sense that if something gets cut or something would have to be delayed, then you cut the content that a smaller portion of the playerbase engages with.

  3. #52403
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    And that doesn't include everything, such as the decreasing number of new sets (most of Endwalker's dungeon and crafted gear is recolors of old stuff), or the amount of recycled music (Varis didn't even get his theme. Seat of Sacrifice and Diamond Weapon did not get second theme phases. No new dungeon boss music for 5.4 and 5.5. Bozja... etc), and so on. There is a clear, steady decrease in the amount of content that releases over time.

  4. #52404
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post


    And that doesn't include everything, such as the decreasing number of new sets (most of Endwalker's dungeon and crafted gear is recolors of old stuff), or the amount of recycled music (Varis didn't even get his theme. Seat of Sacrifice and Diamond Weapon did not get second theme phases. No new dungeon boss music for 5.4 and 5.5. Bozja... etc), and so on. There is a clear, steady decrease in the amount of content that releases over time.
    Not an authority on gear sets so not going to comment on that one but seeing how you're wrong on music I'm leaning to you being wrong again.

    Bozja had four different themes. Eden had a different theme for almost every fight. All the Nier music. And yes SoS and diamond weapon themes don't change but that has been true for many trial bosses. Byakko, Tsukuyomi, Lakshmi, and Sepherot all come to mind.

  5. #52405
    Quote Originally Posted by Thestrawman View Post
    Not an authority on gear sets so not going to comment on that one but seeing how you're wrong on music I'm leaning to you being wrong again.

    Bozja had four different themes. Eden had a different theme for almost every fight. All the Nier music. And yes SoS and diamond weapon themes don't change but that has been true for many trial bosses. Byakko, Tsukuyomi, Lakshmi, and Sepherot all come to mind.
    Lakshmi theme doesn't change throughout the fight, true. Sephirot does if you count the FF6 first phase theme that all the Triad primals share. Tsukuyomi definitely has different music in phases, but I don't know if they're unique to her?

  6. #52406
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    Tsukuyomi did indeed have the music change. I imagine Soken fighting cancer in a hospital had something to do with SoS only having the one theme.

    Not sure why 5.4 and 5.5 not having new dungeon boss music is mentioned since neither did 4.4 and 4.5, only HW was the one which did that. On that note, at least Endwalker has a dungeon miniboss theme made specifically for it. HW/Stormblood had nothing there, and ShB just reused a Dissidia theme.
    Image is also wrong about the Gold Saucer, which was added in ARR.

    Either way, looking for a pattern when your data only has three entries (no i'm not counting Endwalker which doesn't even have patches yet, someone show me the crystal ball that image creator used to find out there's no Bozja equivalent in EW), one of which was definitely impacted by the start of COVID ruining schedules, seems silly.

    I will say, logically, Endwalker should have more content in its patches than Shadowbringers did. No sudden new pandemic changing the work environment (well, presumably...), an influx of players (aka revenue) and their planned server expansions show an interest in growing the game further.

    So if content per patch stays the same (or worsens) from here on, then yes, I'll start complaining too
    Last edited by Cattleya; 2022-01-27 at 09:30 PM.

  7. #52407
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    I imagine Soken fighting cancer in a hospital had something to do with SoS only having the one theme.
    Soken isn't the only composer working on this game, and Square has a plethora of composers they could contract. What about Tsuyoshi Sekito who did The Last Remnant's powermetal? What about Masashi Hamauzu, who did FF10's and FF13's soundtracks? Uematsu? And so on.

    show me the crystal ball that image creator used to find out there's no Bozja equivalent in EW
    I believe it's referring to one of the recent interviews where Yoshida said that the 6.X relic would not be similar to Eureka and Bozja, though it's unclear if that means that there won't be zones.

  8. #52408
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Soken isn't the only composer working on this game, and Square has a plethora of composers they could contract. What about Tsuyoshi Sekito who did The Last Remnant's powermetal? What about Masashi Hamauzu, who did FF10's and FF13's soundtracks? Uematsu? And so on.



    I believe it's referring to one of the recent interviews where Yoshida said that the 6.X relic would not be similar to Eureka and Bozja, though it's unclear if that means that there won't be zones.
    Why is having To the Edge throughout the entire fight a bad thing? Besides your very incorrect argument that there is somehow less music then previous expacs.

  9. #52409
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    wat?



    Well, you have to level those jobs just like any other game if you're going to play them. Not to mention time/resources on gearing them at max level. So people get just as invested in the job they main.
    Half the gear is shared and you usually start equipping 2nd jobs 3-4 weeks in from raid loot while progressing. So unless you completely switch the role you are playing (range-> melee / tank -> dps / dps -> heal or whatever), you don't really have to invest a lot.
    And leveling, can be done while being AFK with trusts while doing something else.

    It's *waaaaaay* different from the usual MMO where you have to redo MSQ and refarm basic powers and all that "shit".

    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post


    And that doesn't include everything, such as the decreasing number of new sets (most of Endwalker's dungeon and crafted gear is recolors of old stuff), or the amount of recycled music (Varis didn't even get his theme. Seat of Sacrifice and Diamond Weapon did not get second theme phases. No new dungeon boss music for 5.4 and 5.5. Bozja... etc), and so on. There is a clear, steady decrease in the amount of content that releases over time.
    okay but what about the stuff you haven't mentioned?
    And do you want to compare Diadem or Eureka with Bozja?
    And deep dungeons might not be there but what about Sapphire weapon and stuff like that?
    The amount of "content" you get out of that is basically equal (although Sapphire weapon was way more awesome), it's just less "grindy"

    As for music. Heavensward Original Soundtrack has 58/60 songs, Stormblood 105, and Shadowbringers 88. So what does that mean when not every trial has a second song.

    And Ishgard restoration for DoH/DoL was way more special than whatever came before as well (for DoH/DoL)
    Or stuff like ocean fishing.
    Or the crafting rework in general.
    What about housing?
    Races?

    I mean, all of that is just stuff out of my head and not a proper write-up. The problem is: so is yours.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-01-27 at 11:57 PM.

  10. #52410
    Heavensward absolutely did NOT add Gold Saucer. That was around from the end of ARR.

  11. #52411
    the way they spun the loporrits to make me smile ear to ear every time they appear, is masterful. I dont think this aethyrburner is getting built. Im too busy clicking on singingway.

    ETA: Jebke and cookingway explain the heart of the expansion. I wasnt ready.

    Eta2: shaggles, you sharp-teethed fuck! (Okay, i admit, im in narration mode, but its too cute!). If i can hit a wider point, its this:... um. Its this!: im so happy just playing this game.

    ETA3: i got a meal at the end of this? shaggles minion or riot! I need cute sharp teeth. I googled. Its a possibility in some level 89 dungeon or other apparently (im sort of mad its not here... but im happy it exists.)
    Last edited by ippollite; 2022-01-28 at 03:48 PM.

  12. #52412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post


    And that doesn't include everything, such as the decreasing number of new sets (most of Endwalker's dungeon and crafted gear is recolors of old stuff), or the amount of recycled music (Varis didn't even get his theme. Seat of Sacrifice and Diamond Weapon did not get second theme phases. No new dungeon boss music for 5.4 and 5.5. Bozja... etc), and so on. There is a clear, steady decrease in the amount of content that releases over time.
    You're being so disingenuous with this. You list Bozja as only having 2 zones, but you also forget to mention that it introduced 3 raids as opposed to the 1 raid in Eureka and 0 in Diadem, one of the raids also had a Savage mode. You also forgot to mention the Ishgardian Restoration questline. You also failed to acknowledge the increase in cutscene content for the MSQ in ShB and especially in Endwalker.

    You also say that SAM and RDM got more trial weapons, but due to the addition of DNC and GNB, there are going to inherently be more weapons and armor sets in the game, because every dungeon, trial, and raid has to include a weapon for each of the new jobs.

    This is a perfect example of looking at individual elements and not the overall picture.

  13. #52413
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    You're being so disingenuous with this. You list Bozja as only having 2 zones, but you also forget to mention that it introduced 3 raids as opposed to the 1 raid in Eureka and 0 in Diadem, one of the raids also had a Savage mode. You also forgot to mention the Ishgardian Restoration questline. You also failed to acknowledge the increase in cutscene content for the MSQ in ShB and especially in Endwalker.

    You also say that SAM and RDM got more trial weapons, but due to the addition of DNC and GNB, there are going to inherently be more weapons and armor sets in the game, because every dungeon, trial, and raid has to include a weapon for each of the new jobs.

    This is a perfect example of looking at individual elements and not the overall picture.
    I think it's also important to correct the data. For example for dungeons, what is listed is inaccurate. Heavensward never gave 3 dungeons per patch (it was 2), and Stormblood only had 2 on even number patches, otherwise it was 1.

    There is still a reduction of overall dungeon content, no doubt, but the way this is presented makes it look like there is 3 times as many dungeons in Heavensward compared to Shadowbringers.

    Shadowbringers has 8 trials - I assume they were just looking at normal modes and excluded Memoria Misera.

    And as I had mentioned in an above post, GS was in ARR.

    If something as small as voice lines in alliance raids is mentioning, I'm not sure why trusts, which were voice acted, was excluded.

    DOL/DOH also got new Diadem and the Firmament with high level crafting and crafting/gathering relics, which aren't specifically questlines, but I would argue is far more content than what was seen in previous expansions for that particular area of the game.

  14. #52414
    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    Eta2: i dont know who Amon is, and at this point. Im to ashamed to ask! I mean, i know its ... and i know he's ... but i have no idea who amon is and why he keeps being brought up. Apparently its very important and im supposed to know... and care.
    I guess even SE didn't know what to do with him. They changed the whole "How souls work" just to give him some kind of motivation and make him a tragic character: it didn't work. That was pretty much the pattern of Endwalker: Logic and consistency be damned, we will make everything super sad and emotional.


    Amon was a leading engineer in the allagan empire. He inherited part of Hermes/ Fandaniels soul. He was always haunted by visions of the original final days but thought them to be a bad dream. He brought the Allagan Emperor Xande back to live but death changed him, ultimately making Amon bitter about life. Because if the end is inevitable why prolong the suffering that is life until it finally comes. Once Emet Selch recruited him to the Ascians, they unlocked all of the previous Fandaniels memories. He used that knowledge for his plan to reenact the final days.

    He doesn't explain himself very well. I didn't really care about him too. Game does too little to make him actually interesting.


    On the other topic, I see people are comparing content between the expansions. Maybe it's just the kind of content I prioritize, but I felt like I had less to do overall. Somehow there weren't that many glamours to hunt this time because most of the gear sets are recolours.

    I am unsubbed again, partly because I am bored and February is packed with other releases like WH3.

  15. #52415
    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    Eta2: i dont know who Amon is, and at this point. Im to ashamed to ask! I mean, i know its ... and i know he's ... but i have no idea who amon is and why he keeps being brought up. Apparently its very important and im supposed to know... and care.

    eta5: i JUST MET AMON!!!. I couldnt care less. Point of order im mid cut scene (end of dungeon) and im here telling you i dont care. Im not sure how i explain this... hang on... amon appeared, i couldnt have given less of a shit if you paid me... not because he's unimportant, but because i have no idea who he is. Call him anything you like squeex. I dont care that he's amon. i have literally no idea who amon is. This cut scene is... is... that zodiark cut scene where fandaniel explained himself. Poor hermes. To be represented by two clangorous (google synonym search - what a cute word!) idiots. Clangorous... sounds like a bell and an idiot all at once. Just like amaurot.
    He's shown or discussed multiple times in the story. For you to have even done Shadowbringers you had to do the Crystal Tower raid he was introduced.

    Amon is a famous Allagan scholar/scientist who resurrected Xande, their Emperor. He is also a previous incarnation of Fandaniel/Hermes

    I have no idea how you got to where you are in the story and have literally zero clue who he is.

    Also, please remember, this is not the spoiler thread. You need to put spoiler tags on story spoilers.

  16. #52416
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    This is a 300+ hour long game. It is rather unreasonable to remember a filler throwaway boss from a side story from the first 100 hours of the game who had zero main story relevance whatsoever until 200+ hours later. It's way worse than FF13 in that regard, where at one point you fight a guy who comes back from the dead, but it has no impact and you go "who?" because that was like 40 hours ago and you've completely forgotten about him.

  17. #52417
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    This is a 300+ hour long game. It is rather unreasonable to remember a filler throwaway boss from a side story from the first 100 hours of the game who had zero main story relevance whatsoever until 200+ hours later. It's way worse than FF13 in that regard, where at one point you fight a guy who comes back from the dead, but it has no impact and you go "who?" because that was like 40 hours ago and you've completely forgotten about him.
    Yeah, it's pretty unlikely that many people felt any kind of connection to Amon or even found any relevance in the reveal.

    If I hadn't made a point of farming for his hat, I might not have even remembered the name. I would remind people that not only is there a huge gap in MSQ playtime between CT and EW, but for those of us that did CT when it was new/relevant, it has also been nearly nine calendar years and it's not like he was even a big part of the CT quest story to begin with. He doesn't even appear in the echo cutscene of Xande talking about death scarring his soul and wanting to consign the world to nothingness, which is his one really relevant connection.
    Last edited by Ghost of Cow; 2022-01-29 at 08:39 PM.

  18. #52418
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    I think he's one of those things where you just go back, see his model and who he was and piece everything together anyways. Nothing is really lost for not remembering who he was, but just doing the CT once more to see where he was positioned makes certain elements of the story 'feel' a little bit better.

  19. #52419
    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    Actually, side point, but now that ive mentioned it: Where the hell is y'stola in this expansion?
    She's sharing the role of Exposition Dumping with like... 3 other characters at this point. The Scions are overloaded with smart, well educated book worms. That doesn't leave a lot of screen time for each.

    It's partly why I miss having Lyse around. Someone who just wants to solve problems by punching them until they stop being problems is a nice change of pace.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    For you to have even done Shadowbringers you had to do the Crystal Tower raid he was introduced.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Crystal Tower optional content? Aren't ALL 24 man raids optional unlocks?

    I don't think I even completed the quest to unlock it until after Shadowbringers MSQ so I could use it to level up some of my other jobs.

  20. #52420
    SQ made the Crystal Tower series mandatory going into ShB for obvious reasons. It must be completed by the tail end of the ARR patch quests or you can't progress now.

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