1. #53101
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    Almost like the original question about someone doing low DPS wasn't really all that serious to begin with.
    Man if only people had answered the question "Is it ok to expect 3 people to carry you through a dungeon while you AFK" then we wouldn't have ended up with 5 pages of dumb back and forth of people throwing their epeens out and saying how dumb everyone else is.

    But their silence on answering that question speaks VOLUMES about them.



    That's all I wanted was an answer to that question and then everyone calls me a horrible person who shames people for only performing at 95%.

    Hella strawmans and hella misrepresentation of my positions. But keep going. Keep pretending I'm saying things I didn't say. I like providing quotes of what yall said to prove you wrong, meanwhile I've been challenging people to provide quotes of myself backing up the claims they've made about me, and so far none have cropped up. FUNNY HOW THAT WORKS.

    Yall have turned me into this omega rager screams at people and wants to kill their families because they're not as good as I am. I've been amused this entire time that the hyperbole keeps ramping up about me, like I'm turning into this legendary forum raid boss.

    But every single one of you have been dragging things off topic from what I'm talking about, so what am I to expect?
    Last edited by Cthulhu 2020; 2022-05-23 at 04:14 AM.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  2. #53102
    Quote Originally Posted by Gutler View Post
    Hmmmm i have a strong desire to pre-order these FFXI has a special place in my heart
    Go for it. They're actually really nice for the price. I have the FFVII ones they released a few years ago. They sound great.

  3. #53103
    Bloodsail Admiral Gutler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thestrawman View Post
    Go for it. They're actually really nice for the price. I have the FFVII ones they released a few years ago. They sound great.
    Guess i could consider them a late christmas present to myself since they dont actually release till february 2023

    Sig by Elyssia "When you do things right people won't be sure you've done anything at all"

  4. #53104
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    Weird how they moved those goalposts real fast, isn't it?

    Went from a discussion about subpar DPS to people raving about the guy that's AFK all dungeon and insulted your mom and kicked your dog. All so they can argue their side easier.

    Almost like the original question about someone doing low DPS wasn't really all that serious to begin with.
    I was kinda staying out of it due to those 2 going at it, but remember the origin of all this debacle so let's not say WE moved the goalposts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Leyre View Post
    https://imgur.com/a/73XThs6

    I know everyone has their stance regarding dps mods, but when you have people who cant even be bothered to press more than 1 button, yeah, sometimes you need them
    This isn't "sub par DPS". This isn't flaming someone for "bad DPS". This is AFK level damage. This is I'm not contributing to the run. If you run ACT, you see this somewhat frequently. It's not the end of the world, but it's disrespectful and frustrating.

  5. #53105
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    I was kinda staying out of it due to those 2 going at it, but remember the origin of all this debacle so let's not say WE moved the goalposts...

    This isn't "sub par DPS". This isn't flaming someone for "bad DPS". This is AFK level damage. This is I'm not contributing to the run. If you run ACT, you see this somewhat frequently. It's not the end of the world, but it's disrespectful and frustrating.
    Indeed, it was a conversation being had and not just by me. But some posters think it appropriate to flame and insult, while others think it appropriate to gaslight.

    I'd just like a simple answer to the question, "Is it okay to expect 3 other people to carry you through a dungeon because you're too lazy to push buttons?" and everyone launches into tangents about "Well what if the player is a noob? Then you're just hurting an innocent player!" to which my answer is, it's incredibly obvious being able to tell who's trying and who's not even without damage meters. Though some have already inadvertently or directly admitted that they think it's perfectly ok to be lazy with other players.

    See, if I want to be a lazy leveler, I go in on trusts, though it only works as a DPS. I pull a pack, do something while they kill it, pull the next pack, do something while they kill it, sit in the corner while they kill the boss, etc. If it's NPCs I'm not inconveniencing or disrespecting anyone's time.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  6. #53106
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Luckily there's two parts where you can kick someone in time before the next cut scene, before Nero (the run from the cermet door to Nero) and after Nero and before Gaius. I'd always kick someone in that part if they were AFK or auto follow.
    I get kicking if a freeloader actually inhibits you to complete the content but if it makes no difference whatsoever...
    ESPECIALLY in a dungeon were you basically SKIP all the trash until Nero anyway...

    damn you are one miserable, petty individual.

  7. #53107
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I get kicking if a freeloader actually inhibits you to complete the content but if it makes no difference whatsoever...
    ESPECIALLY in a dungeon were you basically SKIP all the trash until Nero anyway...

    damn you are one miserable, petty individual.
    While I agree with your overall sentiment the adjustments to these 2.0 level 50 ARR story ending dungeons are not as braindead easy to waltz through with ~3 people actually trying like it was before.

    With the revamps to the dungeon, 1) it's a 4 man dungeon and 2) there's pretty much no skippable trash anymore. This would make legitimately AFK players an actual hindrance to completing them now.

  8. #53108
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I get kicking if a freeloader actually inhibits you to complete the content but if it makes no difference whatsoever...
    ESPECIALLY in a dungeon were you basically SKIP all the trash until Nero anyway...

    damn you are one miserable, petty individual.
    I thought no one in this thread was arguing that there shouldn't be an expectation to not be AFK. Weird. Because it sure sounds like you're saying people should "just put up with it," with "it" being AFK during MSQ roulette.

  9. #53109
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    In content like that, who honestly gives a crap.
    I've been known to half ass it in there as well because I was busy talking to friends I ran with.
    If your own time is so much more important than those in your group, then please, by all means, gtfo and stop playing wasting others time.

    It is that simply It is super toxic to not bother and get carried while you are at something else.

  10. #53110
    Buncha fuckin MSQ roulette parsers up in here, I guess.

  11. #53111
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    While I agree with your overall sentiment the adjustments to these 2.0 level 50 ARR story ending dungeons are not as braindead easy to waltz through with ~3 people actually trying like it was before.

    With the revamps to the dungeon, 1) it's a 4 man dungeon and 2) there's pretty much no skippable trash anymore. This would make legitimately AFK players an actual hindrance to completing them now.
    I guess it's possible, I haven't done the new ones.
    Though if it is 4man, the probability of encountering AFK people is a lot lower anyway, since they can no longer hide among the masses and since they would notably prolong the run, which will not be in their interest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I thought no one in this thread was arguing that there shouldn't be an expectation to not be AFK. Weird. Because it sure sounds like you're saying people should "just put up with it," with "it" being AFK during MSQ roulette.
    In the old MSQ dungeons, an AFK player would -literally- make no dent in the completion time because mobs were skipped and bosses evaporated extremely quickly, often quickly enough that they are near dead when the 15% "want to teleport in?" timer was up.
    95% of the runtime would be fixed in length due to unskippable cutscenes.

    In such a scenario: yeah it's pretty petty to kick players for half-assing it.
    If the revamped bosses live long and people are actually dependent on the 2 DPS to do their job to down them, that's a different matter entirely.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    If your own time is so much more important than those in your group, then please, by all means, gtfo and stop playing wasting others time.
    Next time you want to act superior, analyze the context properly. Else you embarrass yourself.
    I'd never half-ass it if it puts the group in danger or messes with clear times, especially BECAUSE I value my own time.

    I just don't throw an artificial temper tantrum like some people when a player is AFK in content where it mathematically does not matter.

  12. #53112
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Kicking someone for being AFK isn't petty. If someone wants the rewards from content, they should participate in the content. Now, if they said something like "Hey kid's crying brb" or something then that's different, because life happens.
    Last edited by Poppincaps; 2022-05-24 at 08:40 PM.

  13. #53113
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    Kicking someone for being AFK isn't petty. If someone wants the rewards from content, they should participate in the content. Now, if they said something like "Hey kid's crying brb" or something then that's different, because life happens.
    I generally only kick a few types of people

    Afkers
    people who only press 1-2 buttons
    People who don't aoe on trash
    healers who spam heal and never dps
    dicks

    the first four amount to basically be afking, the last are just assholes.

  14. #53114
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    Buncha fuckin MSQ roulette parsers up in here, I guess.
    I got a Blue parse for healing on Sigma Dreamscape. I'm serious business!

    Moving on though. I was today years old when I found out that you can change your characters idle pose. The more you know.

  15. #53115
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I get kicking if a freeloader actually inhibits you to complete the content but if it makes no difference whatsoever...
    ESPECIALLY in a dungeon were you basically SKIP all the trash until Nero anyway...

    damn you are one miserable, petty individual.
    LMAO

    You still have to kill half the trash in that instance. You want to be able to AFK at the start of the dungeon and not get kicked? Wow dude. In fact, I'm in the right on this one since there's specifically and option when you go to vote kick and it asks you for a reason, and one of those reasons is AFK.

    You can no longer AFK praetorium, at least not in the way you used to be able to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    In such a scenario: yeah it's pretty petty to kick players for half-assing it.
    See that's the thing, nobody here is talking about "half-assing", we're talking about ZERO-assing it. You guys keep trying to make it about "sub par" play, the only thing I've EVER talked about are free loaders who don't do jack shit.



    As far as the addon discussion, Lucy Pyre is right on the money. There's more toxicity coming from the players who are mass reporting people for just using addons, than there is toxicity coming from people using the addons. There's so much toxicity from the anti-addon players while those using addons aren't bothering anyone and they just want to live their life. It's against ToS to shame someone for their damage, so if anyone ever does it, they get banned.



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I just don't throw an artificial temper tantrum like some people when a player is AFK in content where it mathematically does not matter.
    Nobody's throwing a temper tantrum, I just kick and move on. Simple and easy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I generally only kick a few types of people

    Afkers
    Yes

    people who only press 1-2 buttons
    Maybe, but usually yes

    People who don't aoe on trash
    healers who spam heal and never dps
    I won't kick these people, but I will typically black list them.

    dicks
    Absolutely

    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    Kicking someone for being AFK isn't petty. If someone wants the rewards from content, they should participate in the content. Now, if they said something like "Hey kid's crying brb" or something then that's different, because life happens.
    This too, if someone states a reason for going AFK, I'll go with that. That said, if someone says they're going AFK and need to deal with something at the start of the instance, and we're staring at the last boss and they're still not back, you bet I'm kicking.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    Buncha fuckin MSQ roulette parsers up in here, I guess.
    Not wanting people to be AFK leeches = serious business parsers APPARENTLY

    LOL

    See this is why nobody is taking this side seriously. Many of us don't want people to be AFK, and upon saying that people like Ghost or Yarathir start calling us elitist parsing assholes who are going to berate people for their DPS and cause the game to be a toxic cesspool.

    Hyperbole is dumb, and you should feel bad for using it.
    Last edited by Cthulhu 2020; 2022-05-25 at 12:28 AM.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  16. #53116
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    There's more toxicity coming from the players who are mass reporting people for just using addons, than there is toxicity coming from people using the addons. There's so much toxicity from the anti-addon players while those using addons aren't bothering anyone and they just want to live their life.
    The bans aren't about "toxicity", the bans are about making a public statement that the TOS matter and are to be taken seriously.

    If you're dumb enough to stream using ACT, ACT triggers and what not to simplify the gameplay, you asked for it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    You want to be able to AFK at the start of the dungeon and not get kicked?
    Naah, I was only ever AFK for the Magiteq sequence, where the amount of players never matters because trash dies in 2 shots. Just didn't feel like running the entire way w/o purpose and ported back in for Nero where there was actually someone to fight.

    I don't AFK but I also didn't care if someone did. Not in the old MSQ, anyway.
    Again: I have yet to encounter an actual AFK player ("brb, door" etc. does not count, sometimes RL does interfere) in a 4man dungeon and I play since ARR.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I generally only kick a few types of people
    People who don't aoe on trash
    healers who spam heal and never dps
    If you kick for these reasons, you are the "dick" and should be removed from the group.
    Also, be careful, these are not considered valid reasons and SE can (in theory) sanction you for griefing.

  17. #53117
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Also, be careful, these are not considered valid reasons and SE can (in theory) sanction you for griefing.
    Playstyle difference has been a valid reason to kick people for years.
    If a majority of the group don't like the player giving people a hard time for not performing a perfect rotation, that player can be kicked.
    If a majority of the group want to finish a dungeon quickly and feel someone isn't meeting their standards, that player can be kicked too.
    Last edited by Shiira; 2022-05-25 at 04:21 AM.

  18. #53118
    The mod suspension discourse is peak:
    "oh no i deliberatley and publicaly broke the games tos and now im getting suspended how could this be happening to me??"

  19. #53119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I get kicking if a freeloader actually inhibits you to complete the content but if it makes no difference whatsoever...
    ESPECIALLY in a dungeon were you basically SKIP all the trash until Nero anyway...

    damn you are one miserable, petty individual.
    But why carry? Why is it ok to not contribute?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I generally only kick a few types of people

    Afkers
    people who only press 1-2 buttons
    People who don't aoe on trash
    healers who spam heal and never dps
    dicks

    the first four amount to basically be afking, the last are just assholes.
    As long as my health, as a tank, is healthy I don’t care if the healer doesn’t damage. Healers heal, I am happy with that. Going above that is just extra icing on a delicious cake. Which is why I don’t heal. I like to heal and only heal when I play healer.

    This is for randoms btw, statics are different of course.
    Last edited by Soikona; 2022-05-25 at 10:37 AM.

  20. #53120
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Naah, I was only ever AFK for the Magiteq sequence, where the amount of players never matters because trash dies in 2 shots. Just didn't feel like running the entire way w/o purpose and ported back in for Nero where there was actually someone to fight.

    I don't AFK but I also didn't care if someone did. Not in the old MSQ, anyway.
    Again: I have yet to encounter an actual AFK player ("brb, door" etc. does not count, sometimes RL does interfere) in a 4man dungeon and I play since ARR.
    True story, one time I happened to have an entire instance of fuckers who AFK'd at the magitek part, all but me and one other guy. I asked him if he wanted to leave and requeue. We did. Still friends with that person to this day. Never found out what happened to that group.

    AFKing for the magitek part isn't as bad as just sitting at the entrance (like many did) but it's still just a shitty thing to do. I wouldn't kick anyone over it though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Imagine getting your panties in a twist, mass reporting a streamer and creating a huge divide in the community over ACT.

    Sure, Cactbot blatantly breaks the rules, custom triggers are borderline. But ACT on its own has been tacitly approved by SE for years and nobody has ever gotten banned for using vanilla ACT. And yet some in here will swear that if we allow ACT at all, it will turn into mass toxicity. It hasn't. For years. And it won't. And they're dumb for thinking that.

    Funny thing is, everyone who was running ACT and streaming it is still going to use it, they're just turning off the damage meter overlay but it's still there. There's also ways to hide the overlay from your stream, including custom triggers and cactbot but still have them be there on your client. You can mute the custom trigger program from making noise on stream as well.

    This whole entire debacle isn't going to actually stop its use, it's just going to make people hide it.

    But Lucy's biggest point is that streamers are disproportionately punished by this as compared to other players, since their whole thing is on full display. But again, they're going to keep using it, they're just going to hide it.
    Last edited by Cthulhu 2020; 2022-05-25 at 11:37 AM.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

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