1. #53121
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    The mod suspension discourse is peak:
    "oh no i deliberatley and publicaly broke the games tos and now im getting suspended how could this be happening to me??"
    The biggest thing that cracks me up is that some of the people doing the reporting are breaking the TOS themselves too with whatever addons or graphical changes (outside of Reshade. Like legit graphical mods which is just as against the TOS) they're using, and they somehow believe themselves to be superior than the person streaming their game and doing the same thing... Saw a handful of people getting called out on Twitter for being hypocrites that way.

    If people are trying to get a crusade going against TOS breakers, then breaking the TOS is breaking the TOS. Streamers shouldn't be held to a higher standard just because they're streaming...everybody who posts proof of them using that stuff should get reported, otherwise people are just playing favorites. Report people on Twitter using custom poses and NPC replacements from screenshots they post showing themselves on a date with their favorite NPC!

    (On a completely random side note...holy crap this thread has almost 2700 pages)
    Last edited by Kittahsmash; Today at 11:12 AM.

  2. #53122
    The whole TOS outrage thing is at least partially to blame on SE as well, regardless of how brazen people were in using them. They've said for years that its against the TOS but they don't care if you don't talk about it. Imagine a cop saying its against the wall to rob someone but as long as you don't brag about the watch and wallet you got, they won't really care.

  3. #53123
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittahsmash View Post
    The biggest thing that cracks me up is that some of the people doing the reporting are breaking the TOS themselves too with whatever addons or graphical changes (outside of Reshade. Like legit graphical mods which is just as against the TOS) they're using, and they somehow believe themselves to be superior than the person streaming their game and doing the same thing... Saw a handful of people getting called out on Twitter for being hypocrites that way.

    If people are trying to get a crusade going against TOS breakers, then breaking the TOS is breaking the TOS. Streamers shouldn't be held to a higher standard just because they're streaming...everybody who posts proof of them using that stuff should get reported, otherwise people are just playing favorites. Report people on Twitter using custom poses and NPC replacements from screenshots they post showing themselves on a date with their favorite NPC!

    (On a completely random side note...holy crap this thread has almost 2700 pages)
    Forgot about this gem. Yeah, a lot of the people who are mass reporting for ACT use are also those using Anamnesis, something SE has ZERO tolerance for and far more people have gotten banned for using. You can use the program to change the appearance of your character in any way you like. And people think this is okay but ACT isn't. Gpose andies reporting people for ACT use is the most hypocritical thing.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  4. #53124
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakhath View Post
    The whole TOS outrage thing is at least partially to blame on SE as well, regardless of how brazen people were in using them. They've said for years that its against the TOS but they don't care if you don't talk about it. Imagine a cop saying its against the wall to rob someone but as long as you don't brag about the watch and wallet you got, they won't really care.
    Not only that, but they have had people who have been using them on their streams or openly talked about utilizing them, for years, participate in past media tours.

  5. #53125
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittahsmash View Post
    The biggest thing that cracks me up is that some of the people doing the reporting are breaking the TOS themselves too with whatever addons or graphical changes (outside of Reshade. Like legit graphical mods which is just as against the TOS) they're using, and they somehow believe themselves to be superior than the person streaming their game and doing the same thing... Saw a handful of people getting called out on Twitter for being hypocrites that way.

    If people are trying to get a crusade going against TOS breakers, then breaking the TOS is breaking the TOS. Streamers shouldn't be held to a higher standard just because they're streaming...everybody who posts proof of them using that stuff should get reported, otherwise people are just playing favorites. Report people on Twitter using custom poses and NPC replacements from screenshots they post showing themselves on a date with their favorite NPC!

    (On a completely random side note...holy crap this thread has almost 2700 pages)
    I get your point, but it's not entirely relevant. Sure, it might make them hypocrites, but the fact of the matter is that people have been told time and again to not publicly talk about the mods they use (if any) and associate that with their characters or CBU3 GMs will likely suspend your account. Streaming is pretty much directly publicly displaying them. If anything, expecting streamers not to get hit while they are openly streaming themselves breaking the ToS is holding streamers to a different standard.

    In short: don't record yourself robbing a store and then get mad that the police knocks on your door.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    But Lucy's biggest point is that streamers are disproportionately punished by this as compared to other players, since their whole thing is on full display. But again, they're going to keep using it, they're just going to hide it.
    That's not disproportionately. That's entirely proportional to how public they are about it by the very definition of streaming.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Casualty View Post
    Not only that, but they have had people who have been using them on their streams or openly talked about utilizing them, for years, participate in past media tours.
    I get that, but it doesn't matter if they never enforce ToS or if they enforce it once a week, once a month, once a year, or every second of every day. It is entirely their right to start enforcing them when they see fit and just because they let you break it yesterday doesn't mean it's not still against ToS today. I get that it may be vexing, but that's how it is.

    More than anything, this came about because Square gave people a finger ("Hey, we can't check your computer against mods, so just.. don't talk about them or promote them or anything.") and people took the entire hand ("Lol what if we make YouTube videos of us using mods and explain where and how to get them?", "What if we publicly streamed the newest most challenging content that is the subject of an unofficial World First race and had our many mods out in the open for all to see?")

  6. #53126
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    If you kick for these reasons, you are the "dick" and should be removed from the group.
    Also, be careful, these are not considered valid reasons and SE can (in theory) sanction you for griefing.
    You're wasting three other people's time. Specially the no aoe thing, that can get tanks killed.

    The spam heal thing is a case by case, some tanks need it

  7. #53127
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    #gposers is literally a tag on twitter and people post supremely modded pictures under that tag, often with their character names attached. I've had people talk about graphical mods in game, in public channels. In the past SE has taken a far more firm stance against mods that change the game files than ACT which is effectively just plucking data from the combat log.

    And yes, the punishment of streamers is disproportional. Plenty of people use ACT. Many use cactbot. Some even use tools that literally just show what their rotation should be on screen. Some few even use tools that just do your rotation for you, a combat bot. There's no crackdown on these.

    Banning one streamer is just a token message. It's not going to change anything at all. "They deserve it" blah blah blah one person gets banned, nothing changes except for everyone just hides it from sight for a month or two until the heat dies down then they go back to using it til the next Ultimate and everyone's openly using it again.

    Anyone who thinks this token ban is going to change anything is delusional. The anti-ACT andies see this as some kind of crusade to get rid of it, when in reality no such thing is going to happen. The only effect this has had is to divide the community between people who were minding their own business and those who are obsessed with others and ruining their day.



    Yes, addons are against the ToS. At the end of the day, this changes absolutely nothing other than create toxicity. For as much as SOME PEOPLE seem to think that ACT users will create mass toxicity, it seems the opposite is true, and in their crusade against preventing hypothetical toxicity, they become the toxic ones.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  8. #53128
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    #gposers is literally a tag on twitter and people post supremely modded pictures under that tag, often with their character names attached. I've had people talk about graphical mods in game, in public channels. In the past SE has taken a far more firm stance against mods that change the game files than ACT which is effectively just plucking data from the combat log.

    And yes, the punishment of streamers is disproportional. Plenty of people use ACT. Many use cactbot. Some even use tools that literally just show what their rotation should be on screen. Some few even use tools that just do your rotation for you, a combat bot. There's no crackdown on these.

    Banning one streamer is just a token message. It's not going to change anything at all. "They deserve it" blah blah blah one person gets banned, nothing changes except for everyone just hides it from sight for a month or two until the heat dies down then they go back to using it til the next Ultimate and everyone's openly using it again.

    Anyone who thinks this token ban is going to change anything is delusional. The anti-ACT andies see this as some kind of crusade to get rid of it, when in reality no such thing is going to happen. The only effect this has had is to divide the community between people who were minding their own business and those who are obsessed with others and ruining their day.



    Yes, addons are against the ToS. At the end of the day, this changes absolutely nothing other than create toxicity. For as much as SOME PEOPLE seem to think that ACT users will create mass toxicity, it seems the opposite is true, and in their crusade against preventing hypothetical toxicity, they become the toxic ones.
    I'm not disagreeing with you on the idea this ban is more a token and won't really change anything, but that works both ways I think. SE won't change their stance. It's against the TOS and has always been against the TOS, so complaining about bans because people are breaking the TOS just seems stupid to me.

    If you don't want to risk getting banned, don't use add-ons/mods. If you use add-ons/mods, don't whinge about getting banned.

    And calling it disproportional for streamers to get banned more is really disingenuous, or not based in reality. Just like with anything related to legal matters, the cases with the most easily accessible, irrefutable evidence move faster than those without. So you mean to say, that those people that are literally showing off their crime are getting arrested more often? :shocked pikachu face:

  9. #53129
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    If you don't want to risk getting banned, don't use add-ons/mods. If you use add-ons/mods, don't whinge about getting banned.
    TBF, its more like... if you don't want to get banned don't talk about them, and don't stream with them, they've flat out said multiple times they have no idea what we have on our pc running with the game.

  10. #53130
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    TBF, its more like... if you don't want to get banned don't talk about them, and don't stream with them, they've flat out said multiple times they have no idea what we have on our pc running with the game.
    This. How can you truly be surprised that if you stream with mods running at full blasts that you might get banned? That's a step beyond just mentioning ACT in passing. That's standing on a stage and going "HI GUYS I USE THESE AND THESE MODS." Especially during a world first race of the new Ultimate content.

    And we should be outraged that that gets you banned? What kind of favoritism do people think streamers are entitled to, exactly?

  11. #53131
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    TBF, its more like... if you don't want to get banned don't talk about them, and don't stream with them, they've flat out said multiple times they have no idea what we have on our pc running with the game.
    I meant what I said. The likelihood they'll catch you if you don't stream and never talk about it is, as you implied, exceedingly low. But the point is, using add-ons/mods is against the TOS, and has always been against the TOS, period.

    If you don't want to risk it, don't use them.

  12. #53132
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I meant what I said. The likelihood they'll catch you if you don't stream and never talk about it is, as you implied, exceedingly low. But the point is, using add-ons/mods is against the TOS, and has always been against the TOS, period.

    If you don't want to risk it, don't use them.
    That brings me to something else that might worth considering too. For years, they've had a "don't ask, don't tell" approach and people have kind of overstepped those bounds countless times. If they ever feel compelled to develop anti-cheat or mod detection stuff to put inside of the client because of it, then everyone is just screwed with regards to that.

  13. #53133
    Master of the Void The Dark One's Avatar
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    I use mods.

    Everyone I know uses mods to some extent. I really don't get the drama.

    It's just kind of a don't ask, don't tell kinda thing.

    I certainly wouldn't stream with them on though, because that's just asking for trouble.

    I do want to state through that I do not use ACT. Never cared for it. Plenty of my static do though, and from what I've seen I'm doing just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    If they ever feel compelled to develop anti-cheat or mod detection stuff to put inside of the client because of it, then everyone is just screwed with regards to that.
    I wouldn't be too worried about that. It's Square. If they were going to start doing that they would tell us and give plenty of warning.
    Fundamental civil rights are only "political" if you're trying to take them away from people.

  14. #53134
    Quote Originally Posted by The Dark One View Post
    I wouldn't be too worried about that. It's Square. If they were going to start doing that they would tell us and give plenty of warning.
    Probably. And I'm not actively worrying about it. Merely considering what could happen if people keep testing the ToS and YoshiP's "suggestions" in particular.

  15. #53135
    Quote Originally Posted by The Dark One View Post
    I use mods.

    Everyone I know uses mods to some extent. I really don't get the drama.

    It's just kind of a don't ask, don't tell kinda thing.

    I certainly wouldn't stream with them on though, because that's just asking for trouble.

    I do want to state through that I do not use ACT. Never cared for it. Plenty of my static do though, and from what I've seen I'm doing just fine.



    I wouldn't be too worried about that. It's Square. If they were going to start doing that they would tell us and give plenty of warning.
    I'm not disagreeing with the mentality, or the sentiment. Just, use at your own risk. It's the rule. If you don't want to get in trouble for breaking the rule....don't break the rule. It's not any more complicated than that. And certainly don't advertise that you were breaking it.

    It's like speeding. Pretty much everyone does it and most people rarely, if ever, get caught. That doesn't mean it's not a violation, so you can't really get surprised or upset when you finally do get caught speeding and given a speeding ticket, when you were actually speeding. I mean, yes you can get upset, but it would be stupid to get upset at the cop for pulling you over for speeding.

    If you never want to get in trouble for speeding, don't speed. And especially don't do it in an area you know is always filled with cops.

  16. #53136
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    That brings me to something else that might worth considering too. For years, they've had a "don't ask, don't tell" approach and people have kind of overstepped those bounds countless times. If they ever feel compelled to develop anti-cheat or mod detection stuff to put inside of the client because of it, then everyone is just screwed with regards to that.
    I've heard it might be something with Japanese privacy laws, they CAN'T look at what's running on the pcs there, legally. But that's second hand info

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