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  1. #1

    Tanking/Healing Stress is Tough

    So I first started MMOs that followed the trinity with WoW. My first class was a Paladin during vanilla. Playing a pally back then meant you were holy or doing PVP. I found healing to be pretty fun and managed to make it all the way to a naxx clear. At that point though, I began to find healing back then to be rather stressful. Make a single mistake, and the raid leader would set guildies aside and be known for cussing folks out privately.

    Eventually, I went DPS with DK and went off to make a server first clear of Icecrown before I hit the WoW apathy wall. Fast forward today and I'm now an avid player of FFXIV. Started off as a DRG, then went SAM in SB. About halfway through, I decided to try tanking as DRK to avoid the long queues. With the release of SHB, I've cleared Titania EX as GNB and I'm a bit conflicted the about continuing to play the role, let alone the game.

    The reason so is because I notice healers seem to be under some pressure with the changes. Make one mistake and the DPS(not all, plenty y'all cool) FREAKS out every other instance or so. Same goes for me. I've made a flub here and there due to being tired or distracted by reality, but I'm a competent tank. FFXIV is known for having a pretty chill community, but since the expansion, I've noticed some seriously toxic folks.

    What with a lot of WoW refugees being a thing, and the game pushing 16 million, I'm wondering if a lot of those refugees are bringing some of the toxicity that has existed in WoW into the player base, or is it always like this when a new expansion drops? I'm not some insecure mofo who can't take criticism, but when people start sending tells wishing death to my firstborns, and being stabbed with a linoleum knife, that kinda wears on you after awhile.

    So what y'all think? Should I get used to tanking being a choice to be a proper hardcore raider, or will things cool off once things start to settle with the expansion?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima22689 View Post
    FFXIV is known for having a pretty chill community, but since the expansion, I've noticed some seriously toxic folks.
    This is where you're making your mistake.

    XIV community is no different than any other online community. Long before Shadowbringers people were bitching at each other, mostly tanks and healers since those are the roles that always get yelled at, and especially in XIV since it's harder to yell at DPS with Square's stance on meters.

    I used to tank almost exclusively during ARR and HW, but I don't even really like tanking anymore after my experiences in XIV, honestly. A group of 4 people will end up with 6 different opinions on what you should be doing. You pulled too few. You pulled too many. You went too fast. You went too slow. You moved too much. You turned the boss half a degree further than the Monk expected and messed up one positional.

    Had an alliance raid group yelling at the tank the entire final fight because he tanked Phlegethon in the center and they thought he should be elsewhere, as if it matters now. Had another group making fun of the Sprout tank in Castrum MSQ because he dared to pull two groups and stop to kill them. Listened to drama in discord because a tank didn't know Titania EX perfectly yet during Early Access.

    Eventually you don't want to be thinking about the fact that it's likely that - even if nothing is said - everyone is thinking, "Oh, this tank shoulda done this and that and whatever." and you go level a Dragoon or Samurai or something like everyone else.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima22689 View Post
    The reason so is because I notice healers seem to be under some pressure with the changes. Make one mistake and the DPS(not all, plenty y'all cool) FREAKS out every other instance or so. Same goes for me. I've made a flub here and there due to being tired or distracted by reality, but I'm a competent tank. FFXIV is known for having a pretty chill community, but since the expansion, I've noticed some seriously toxic folks.

    What with a lot of WoW refugees being a thing, and the game pushing 16 million, I'm wondering if a lot of those refugees are bringing some of the toxicity that has existed in WoW into the player base, or is it always like this when a new expansion drops? I'm not some insecure mofo who can't take criticism, but when people start sending tells wishing death to my firstborns, and being stabbed with a linoleum knife, that kinda wears on you after awhile.

    So what y'all think? Should I get used to tanking being a choice to be a proper hardcore raider, or will things cool off once things start to settle with the expansion?
    Few notes:

    • You had someone wish you threat threats to you and a first born? Over what exactly? Failing? In what context. It's not that I don't believe you, and this community is not nearly as perfect as some people pretend it is, but I haven't ever see anything this vile. Mind sharing the actual specifics of what happened and how it led to that?
    • The game isn't pushing 16M players. That's accounts created.
    • WoW refugees are a real thing, but they're not the root cause or any real appreciable gain in toxicity to the community as far as I can tell. It's natural that as a playerbase gets larger so do negative (and positive) events. It's the natural law of averages.
    • The expansion JUST started, and you've gotten enough negative experiences where you were verbally harassed to consider quitting? The reason this seems suspicious is you were a top progression raider (by your admission) in WoW. I know what it takes to be one, as I was one as well. So I KNOW you can take criticism, but I'm curious what you're doing and where/and how/when that's drawing so much negativity your way.

  4. #4
    I main spec an AST since Heavensward. It can be stressful at the start of expacs in FF14 cause people are trying to learn new keysets (it worse now then ever before with reworks even if all of them are for the better in the end) as well as gearing. And really your right as a healer and tank your first in the line of fire if a group keeps wiping with out a known reason. For healers are they doing all they can, tanks are you using CD's for big damage spikes and tank busters.
    Now this is from my point of view but I use to do Nocturnal Sect almost full time in instances and raids unless I was in a raid with a scholar then I went Diurnal all the way threw SB. Now its reverse cause Noct feels so much weaker to me. Could be just me, could be gear or the fact that Noct is now weaker seeing that the shields cost so much MP. I had a few groups where I was gonna try and go back to Noct Sect did one big pull thinking we were gonna be ok. Get to the end of the pull cause im a stubborn p.i.t.a and be out of mana, say screw it go back to Diurn for the rest of the instance and be able to help with some dps on pulls in between heals and tossing out cards.
    I still think FF14's community is a hell of a lot more chill then WoW's is but same time thats not everyone. I seen a few more bad eggs this expac then I have in the past, but I could have just been lucky.
    SEnix also is very heavy on their tolerance policy. If someone is really harassing you like that for really no reason other then a wipe and you kept your chill. Report them. I have seen and heard of people being temp banned for less then death threats. But same time it is a double edge sword, if they didnt do anything wrong and you report them they will turn the report back on you. Its just like the RMT report. Tells you only use if they are doing such a thing for you yourself can get in trouble instead.

    If your on the Primal data center and even Behemoth server thats where I am. I can heal ya as you get use to tanking =)
    Last edited by rizyukaizen; 2019-07-15 at 07:52 AM.

  5. #5
    I exclusively play tanks atm and I dont really feel stress, noone says anything to me. Generally I wall to wall because im comfortable but sometimes i do 1-2 packs if i just dont feel like paying attention. I go into EXs, i do my job if we kill it i do my rolls and move on if we dont I keep pulling till it collapses. Im not sure what exactly is stressing you but the community isnt THAT aggro, tho to be fair very mild toxic statements can get you time outs in xiv.

  6. #6
    Honestly I haven't experienced this at all. It might be a datacenter thing but I will say that I've seen a freakout and threats like...once in my time playing FFXIV since ARR closed beta.

    Maybe things have changed a bit, though. I won't lie and say that I haven't gotten frustrated at a clear influx of people clearly inexperienced with the game, especially healers, who can't even keep up with the most simple instances like Aurum Vale. That being said it's never gotten aggressive from what I've seen and at best people have gotten kinda dry/snarky because things like messaging threats will actually get you banned.

    If that actually happened the way you're describing it, report them and move on. This isn't WoW, you can actually report people who harass you and they will be punished for it.

  7. #7
    Scarab Lord gaymer77's Avatar
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    I'm actually one of those WoW refugees right now but I'm not of the toxic variety. My boyfriend wanted to try the game out back at the end of June so he created an account. I had tried FF14 back before the first expansion ever even hit. I didn't get far in it because I had a shitty connection because I was living in the country with my sister & had to deal with satellite internet (which gives HUGE latency in case you're ever curious). The game was rather difficult to play with such a high MS that I just gave up on it. When my boyfriend wanted to play I reactivated my account by paying the $12 for the 1 character per server thing. Since we have high speed Xfinity I was able to actually play it and enjoyed the game now. I bought us the Shadowbringers expansion and him the base game. We are thoroughly enjoying the game and he's not a fan of the whole MMORPG genera either lol.

    As far as healing or tanking being stressful, its the nature of the role. Some times a tank or healer can autopilot much of the content but generally speaking when there's new content/patches/expansions the pressure is more on your tank or healer than anything else. Tanks are expected to know the insides and outs the day new stuff is released. Healers are expected to know when they should pop healing CD or top everyone off to prevent that huge AOE damage from killing people off. For the most part, DPS just have to know when to not stand in shit, move out of the way, or when to roll their face over the keyboard to the left vs when to the right (ok exaggeration but seriously that's what it seems like some times lol).

    \My advice is don't give up on tanking or healing if you enjoy the responsibility of the role. Tanks & healers are almost always in high demand in just about every game that plays the trinity set up because the number of DPS classes/specs always outnumber the number of healer or tank classes/specs. Typically the numbers are for every 1 tank class/spec and healer class/spec there are 2-3 dps classes/specs to equal out (so like 1 tank + 1 healer = 3 DPS not 2 like you'd think it would be).

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima22689 View Post
    So I first started MMOs that followed the trinity with WoW. My first class was a Paladin during vanilla. Playing a pally back then meant you were holy or doing PVP. I found healing to be pretty fun and managed to make it all the way to a naxx clear. At that point though, I began to find healing back then to be rather stressful. Make a single mistake, and the raid leader would set guildies aside and be known for cussing folks out privately.

    Eventually, I went DPS with DK and went off to make a server first clear of Icecrown before I hit the WoW apathy wall. Fast forward today and I'm now an avid player of FFXIV. Started off as a DRG, then went SAM in SB. About halfway through, I decided to try tanking as DRK to avoid the long queues. With the release of SHB, I've cleared Titania EX as GNB and I'm a bit conflicted the about continuing to play the role, let alone the game.

    The reason so is because I notice healers seem to be under some pressure with the changes. Make one mistake and the DPS(not all, plenty y'all cool) FREAKS out every other instance or so. Same goes for me. I've made a flub here and there due to being tired or distracted by reality, but I'm a competent tank. FFXIV is known for having a pretty chill community, but since the expansion, I've noticed some seriously toxic folks.

    What with a lot of WoW refugees being a thing, and the game pushing 16 million, I'm wondering if a lot of those refugees are bringing some of the toxicity that has existed in WoW into the player base, or is it always like this when a new expansion drops? I'm not some insecure mofo who can't take criticism, but when people start sending tells wishing death to my firstborns, and being stabbed with a linoleum knife, that kinda wears on you after awhile.

    So what y'all think? Should I get used to tanking being a choice to be a proper hardcore raider, or will things cool off once things start to settle with the expansion?

    Im going to generalize here .

    I feel the BIGGEST problem for Hardmode and up is DPS stand in shit ALL the time.

    Part of it is player skill, and part of is people forgetting how the Circle vs actual animations work.

    in ANY hardmode content the biggest problem i have ever seen is someone just dipping there toe in a telegraphed heal.

    You think with out a DPS meter people wouldnt tunnel vision but i see it ALLL the time.

    This community has the mentality of - My DPS can not suffer so i will stand here and the healer will heal me thru the damage...- The only problem is that Shadowbringers has changed healers, and its more important than ever. yet DPS will still stand in shit.


    I say this from a DPS and Healer perspective .

    I have been caught off guard it happens in not blaming anyone for standing in shit. Im blaming the people who stand in shit and blame others.

  9. #9
    interesting on plan on tanking later in FF14...... i'm a tank by nature so was hoping FF14 was tank friendly
    Member:BFA Alpha, Member since 2/7/2018

  10. #10
    Tanking is never stressful to me. Healing is only stressful if you try to concern yourself with being a DPS at the same time.

    Basically Mechanics are everything in this game, if People know Mechanics everything is fine and non-stressful.

  11. #11
    Friend of mine has noticed an increase in DPS and healers trying to pull for him.
    Let one die and don't let them set the pace of your pulls and they typically settle down. Our FC healers are feeling the strain of tanks still trying to mass pull entire dungeons while they're adjusting to their new MP pool caps and changes to their jobs. I've noticed more tanks on my roulette runs have been taking thing in chunks until I hit 80 and we're better geared. Then I started seeing more comfortability in the large scale pulls again.

    There's probably a little more asshattery just from an influx of players, both WoW refugees and returning XIV players, looking to catch up and get through the new content. I honestly think it will level out.

    I'm 2 levels from capping Ninja, then I'll start working on tanks and healers next.

    Just remember, they can kick you if they feel that strongly about it. You'll be in a new run within minutes while they can wait their 15+ for a tank replacement.

  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire TigTone's Avatar
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    I only healed during the first 1/4 of stormblood as white mage. Only thing stressful was DPS not avoiding mechanics. Other than that I didn’t have people bitching at me.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Friend of mine has noticed an increase in DPS and healers trying to pull for him.
    Let one die and don't let them set the pace of your pulls and they typically settle down. Our FC healers are feeling the strain of tanks still trying to mass pull entire dungeons while they're adjusting to their new MP pool caps and changes to their jobs. I've noticed more tanks on my roulette runs have been taking thing in chunks until I hit 80 and we're better geared. Then I started seeing more comfortability in the large scale pulls again.

    There's probably a little more asshattery just from an influx of players, both WoW refugees and returning XIV players, looking to catch up and get through the new content. I honestly think it will level out.

    I'm 2 levels from capping Ninja, then I'll start working on tanks and healers next.

    Just remember, they can kick you if they feel that strongly about it. You'll be in a new run within minutes while they can wait their 15+ for a tank replacement.
    That's so hypocritically toxic. Yeah them pulling is lame as fuck, but being spiteful back isn't what I expect from this great community. All it does is continue to breed resentment and hostility between the player types. I'm all for teaching a hard lesson, but even I see this as over the top.

    Also side-bar, it takes mere seconds to get a replacement for any role, including healer in my experience. I've kicked quite a few and never had to wait more than maybe 30s to a minute on Primal for a replacement healer/DPS. Can't speak for tank yet since it's my main.

  14. #14
    I played in stormblood and vanilla ffxiv and there was always toxic ppl.I quit at 49 my healer because i cba dealing with these ppl anymore.Even tho i killed garuda pre nerf easy mode

  15. #15
    I honestly haven't had this happen. People never give me shit for tanking, I just do what I want.
    Quote Originally Posted by True Anarch View Post
    Never claimed I was a genuis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Furitrix View Post
    I don't give a fuck if cops act shitty towards people, never have.

  16. #16
    I wouldnt say its stressful unless youre just not comfortable with a class, like im horrible on DRK, and AST but i have loads of fun healing on my sch/whm and tanking on paladin. Its all about knowing whats coming up and being ready for it tho. Leave the derpy dps to their floor tanking when they do a stupid and laugh at them.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    I'm actually one of those WoW refugees right now but I'm not of the toxic variety. My boyfriend wanted to try the game out back at the end of June so he created an account. I had tried FF14 back before the first expansion ever even hit. I didn't get far in it because I had a shitty connection because I was living in the country with my sister & had to deal with satellite internet (which gives HUGE latency in case you're ever curious). The game was rather difficult to play with such a high MS that I just gave up on it. When my boyfriend wanted to play I reactivated my account by paying the $12 for the 1 character per server thing. Since we have high speed Xfinity I was able to actually play it and enjoyed the game now. I bought us the Shadowbringers expansion and him the base game. We are thoroughly enjoying the game and he's not a fan of the whole MMORPG genera either lol.

    As far as healing or tanking being stressful, its the nature of the role. Some times a tank or healer can autopilot much of the content but generally speaking when there's new content/patches/expansions the pressure is more on your tank or healer than anything else. Tanks are expected to know the insides and outs the day new stuff is released. Healers are expected to know when they should pop healing CD or top everyone off to prevent that huge AOE damage from killing people off. For the most part, DPS just have to know when to not stand in shit, move out of the way, or when to roll their face over the keyboard to the left vs when to the right (ok exaggeration but seriously that's what it seems like some times lol).

    \My advice is don't give up on tanking or healing if you enjoy the responsibility of the role. Tanks & healers are almost always in high demand in just about every game that plays the trinity set up because the number of DPS classes/specs always outnumber the number of healer or tank classes/specs. Typically the numbers are for every 1 tank class/spec and healer class/spec there are 2-3 dps classes/specs to equal out (so like 1 tank + 1 healer = 3 DPS not 2 like you'd think it would be).
    You dont have to know things day one you just have to understand the games...patterns well say. Most of the dungeon bosses go, in some order, Tank Buster/Party Wide/Stack or Movement. I managed to guess decently well between them but after getting hit once by a named attack you know what that is and in dungeons no single attack is killing you outright. Tank CD the buster, Reprisal / heart of light / whatever the other tanks have for party mit the party wide move for movement things and collect shinies.

    The game is really heavy into learn the patterns, Titania EX is basically a choreographed dance with a bit of dps check sprinkled on.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Friend of mine has noticed an increase in DPS and healers trying to pull for him.
    Let one die and don't let them set the pace of your pulls and they typically settle down. Our FC healers are feeling the strain of tanks still trying to mass pull entire dungeons while they're adjusting to their new MP pool caps and changes to their jobs. I've noticed more tanks on my roulette runs have been taking thing in chunks until I hit 80 and we're better geared. Then I started seeing more comfortability in the large scale pulls again.
    Heh, I was doing a first time run of one of the new expert dungeons as PLD. The healer had a macro at the start of the run saying to pull big. So I pull 2 packs in the middle. I die and we wipe.

    So the next time I only pull one pack. The healer runs ahead to the second pack, pulls them, and then casts that Rescue/Lifegrip spell to pull me to the second pack!

    Tanking in FFXIV has steadily become a worse and worse experience.

  19. #19
    Press X to doubt.

    I haven't seen a single example of toxicity as a healer at any point, including in Shadowbringers when nobody knew anything about any of the bosses. And I dont even really play with a Free Company, 99.9% of it is with randoms.

    I think the worst I've ever experienced is, while tanking on an alt, having the healer tell me to pull more because we could go faster. OR as that healer, doing the same thing. Which isn't even toxicity.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by RohanV View Post
    Heh, I was doing a first time run of one of the new expert dungeons as PLD. The healer had a macro at the start of the run saying to pull big. So I pull 2 packs in the middle. I die and we wipe.

    So the next time I only pull one pack. The healer runs ahead to the second pack, pulls them, and then casts that Rescue/Lifegrip spell to pull me to the second pack!

    Tanking in FFXIV has steadily become a worse and worse experience.
    Wow, that's a new one. Haven't seen that level of aggression before.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    Press X to doubt.

    I haven't seen a single example of toxicity as a healer at any point, including in Shadowbringers when nobody knew anything about any of the bosses. And I dont even really play with a Free Company, 99.9% of it is with randoms.
    I don't doubt it at all.

    Tanks are essentially driving the car in groups, but a lot of players have a hard time working with others and expect every tank to give them an experience that's just like all the solo content: That is, doing everything at their pace, the way they want.

    Does it happen every time? Nah. Does it happen the majority of the time? No. Does it happen often enough that it makes people just want to play a different role so no one complains at them about every little thing? Yep.

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