1. #44601
    Completely abandoned WoW to give FF 14 a go. Been playing for the past 2 weeks, with a kind fella giving me Heaven and Blood for free -- kinda overwhelmed with the amount of things to do.

    Thoroughly enjoying it though.

  2. #44602
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Completely abandoned WoW to give FF 14 a go. Been playing for the past 2 weeks, with a kind fella giving me Heaven and Blood for free -- kinda overwhelmed with the amount of things to do.

    Thoroughly enjoying it though.
    Glad you're enjoying it! Give the Gold Saucer a go if you haven't already

    Quick tip: You can easily acquire great level 50/60/70 gear by simply queuing for your daily Frontline challenge (unlocked at level 30), which is a fun ten minute long PvP battleground. You're guaranteed 1000 PvP marks win or lose, and it only costs about 10k marks to fully gear yourself. The moment I dinged 50 on my Dragoon, I ported straight to the Wolves Den and bought myself a full set of 110 gear.
    Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss; 2019-03-25 at 07:01 PM.

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  3. #44603
    Scarab Lord Kaelwryn's Avatar
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    Don't really need to do that, unless you really want to. Lv50/60/70 job quests give you gear, plus the post msq for arr and hw also give you gear. sb post msq will give gear when shadowbringers launches. Not to mention that stormblood's pvp gear is lvl 1 glamour stuff so that's not an option for lvl 70.
    Last edited by Kaelwryn; 2019-03-25 at 07:49 PM.

  4. #44604
    Without going too crazy in depth, yes, to get the best dps you are on an overheat rotation, with wildfire

  5. #44605
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Without going too crazy in depth, yes, to get the best dps you are on an overheat rotation, with wildfire
    Timed with certain phases of the fight I'm assuming? Or just timing your Overheat window with Wildfire and other cooldowns to give a 10 second window of crazy burst, followed by a 10 second window of sub par DPS? If that's the math, that's how it works, but that sounds awful to play as IMO.

    That's part of why I stopped playing SMN even though I love the aesthetic and the overall gameplay, because of how heavily the entire class leans on that ~15 second window with Bahamut that takes 90 seconds, at best, to reach. I just can't play a class with mechanics built like that in a game where most of the boss encounters have windows of invulnerability that render that amazing game play cooldown completely useless or pointless.

    Another reason I really enjoy RDM.

  6. #44606
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Yup. If they're going to continue to implement encounters with mechanics like this, why the fuck do they keep creating classes with skills and rotations that so heavily rely on shit like this. DRG isn't the only one that has this problem.
    At the very least I want skills like Heavy Thrust removed and the damage baked into the job. Skills like that serve no purpose in a rotation outside having a button just for the sake of having a button.

  7. #44607
    Quote Originally Posted by leviathonlx View Post
    At the very least I want skills like Heavy Thrust removed and the damage baked into the job. Skills like that serve no purpose in a rotation outside having a button just for the sake of having a button.
    They should bake that damage into Vorpal Thrust or Full Thrust, just like the DoT is baked into Chaos Thrust. Single one-off abilities like that, that are only used to apply a buff or debuff every 30 seconds, should just be baked into other abilities.

  8. #44608
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leviathonlx View Post
    At the very least I want skills like Heavy Thrust removed and the damage baked into the job. Skills like that serve no purpose in a rotation outside having a button just for the sake of having a button.
    Leveling DRG right now, definitely the most annoying skill and the one I forget most. It just doesn't fit. Stands out like a sore thumb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Timed with certain phases of the fight I'm assuming? Or just timing your Overheat window with Wildfire and other cooldowns to give a 10 second window of crazy burst, followed by a 10 second window of sub par DPS? If that's the math, that's how it works, but that sounds awful to play as IMO.
    That's how I understood it. Kinda the way BM hunter used to be played.
    Yes, the class is absolutely hideous to play. Feels frantic, disorganized... and way too RNG influenced.

  9. #44609
    This may be a bit odd but one of the things I really hope for...is a good paladin story this time around.

    In ARR, it was decent. Not great but not bad. It was interesting that we didn't get the sword back but the moral of the story was that the sword didn't really matter.

    Then come HW apparantly the sword does matter, enough so that the same guy fakes his death in a weird and convoluted plot not to get the sword back, that happened off screen, but to get it to glow again?

    Then come SB and...it's a tournament arc with 0 stakes. As a GLADIATOR story it was okay I guess and fun to see the gladiator characters again, but as a paladin story it fell flat.

    I really hope in ShB we get to go out and do some good, maybe get up to some knight errantry helping people. Do some actual good, help somebody, not run around with our thumbs up our asses not accomplishing anything.

  10. #44610
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Timed with certain phases of the fight I'm assuming? Or just timing your Overheat window with Wildfire and other cooldowns to give a 10 second window of crazy burst, followed by a 10 second window of sub par DPS? If that's the math, that's how it works, but that sounds awful to play as IMO.

    That's part of why I stopped playing SMN even though I love the aesthetic and the overall gameplay, because of how heavily the entire class leans on that ~15 second window with Bahamut that takes 90 seconds, at best, to reach. I just can't play a class with mechanics built like that in a game where most of the boss encounters have windows of invulnerability that render that amazing game play cooldown completely useless or pointless.

    Another reason I really enjoy RDM.
    You TRY to line it up with things, but it's basically a frantic 10 seconds with 60 seconds of buildup, constantly, throughout the whole fight, it's why you don't see many MCH.

  11. #44611
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    IMO biggest change for DRG is Lance Mastery, it makes rotation much smoother. Mirage Dive and BotD/LotD can go die in the fire though, especially on bosses that love to fly around for a minute doing pretty much nothing, while you are looking at ticking timer and shout "Just fucking land".
    i dont get why botd even has a timer still. you should just be able to hold your eyes infinitely like samurai's combo points, and only have a timer when you go into nastrond mode.

  12. #44612
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Leveling DRG right now, definitely the most annoying skill and the one I forget most. It just doesn't fit. Stands out like a sore thumb.
    Agree, it just doesn't fit into the rotation at all, which I guess is kind of the point as it's a thing you have to pay attention to for refreshing....I really wish they'd get rid of their obsession with that kind of crap. Why does almost every single DPS class have some kind of buff or debuff to track for maximizing DPS. Again, the only one I can think of that doesn't is RDM, lol, yet another reason I love the class so much.

    Why can't classes just be about the rotation/ abilities themselves?

    That's how I understood it. Kinda the way BM hunter used to be played.
    Yes, the class is absolutely hideous to play. Feels frantic, disorganized... and way too RNG influenced.
    I agree with how RNG it feels, doesn't feel great, but it was tolerable given how quickly the reload/ quick reload abilities are off cooldown. I honestly REALLY just liked the visual and audio effects for the "hot" abilities, they felt satisfying to use. But If the game play is built around purposely overheating and then scrambling to get stuff done in that window, that's awful.

    I prefer smooth game play, not a lot of clunkyness, maybe a proc here and there. I really liked Bard, Summoner standard rotation (can't stand how reliant it is on Bahamut ability though), and of course Red Mage. Samurai isn't bad either, as it's pretty smooth and consistent, I just typically prefer ranged classes because of how frantic melee DPS in encounters can be due to dodging PBAoE's and stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    You TRY to line it up with things, but it's basically a frantic 10 seconds with 60 seconds of buildup, constantly, throughout the whole fight, it's why you don't see many MCH.
    Yeah that sounds terrible.

  13. #44613
    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    i dont get why botd even has a timer still. you should just be able to hold your eyes infinitely like samurai's combo points, and only have a timer when you go into nastrond mode.
    The only point of timer is difference between two or three Nastronds depending on how you maintained rotation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Agree, it just doesn't fit into the rotation at all, which I guess is kind of the point as it's a thing you have to pay attention to for refreshing....I really wish they'd get rid of their obsession with that kind of crap. Why does almost every single DPS class have some kind of buff or debuff to track for maximizing DPS. Again, the only one I can think of that doesn't is RDM, lol, yet another reason I love the class so much.

    Why can't classes just be about the rotation/ abilities themselves?
    With Lance Mastery you just refresh Heavy Thrust after your two combos, so it doesn't really stand out that much. I agree on the rest of your post though, if the game has some buff or debuff you are expected to maintain 100% of the time, what's even the point?
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  14. #44614
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    With Lance Mastery you just refresh Heavy Thrust after your two combos, so it doesn't really stand out that much. I agree on the rest of your post though, if the game has some buff or debuff you are expected to maintain 100% of the time, what's even the point?
    To create a dps gap between people who maintain it and the ones who don't ?

  15. #44615
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Why does almost every single DPS class have some kind of buff or debuff to track for maximizing DPS. Again, the only one I can think of that doesn't is RDM, lol, yet another reason I love the class so much.

    Why can't classes just be about the rotation/ abilities themselves?
    Probably balancing reasons.
    Classes are ridiculously similar in this game (like every class has a +% you need to keep up, every class has some kind of DoT etc... and that makes it easier to balance.

  16. #44616
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Another reason I really enjoy RDM.
    I really hope RDM is the standard to which they make future classes (at least from a DPS perspective). In terms of damage rotation. It's the right amount of rotation + randomness, with a satisfying set of finishers that don't take two minutes to set up.

  17. #44617
    Bloodsail Admiral Dugna's Avatar
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    Servers are up for anybody following this thread. New MSQ and everything
    Patch notes

  18. #44618
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham II View Post
    A lot of the people asking for Viera men to be added legitimately disgust me and I wish I could say more to counter them on the official forum without getting banned. I hope Yoshi-P doesn't appease them and instead adds Viera men that look like muscular adults if the gender lock is ever removed. Japan in general has started to - thankfully - move away from certain aesthetics, so I don't see a hugely successful game like FFXIV resorting to adding what those players desire. If they ever were added, I'd likely quit.
    Honestly I'd prefer if they were effeminate (relatively) speaking male, not because of any fetish but because it'd be a better contrast to typical stereotype. Like Granyala said, a reverse to the Au Ra would be more unique as opposed to more of the same.

  19. #44619
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    I agree on the rest of your post though, if the game has some buff or debuff you are expected to maintain 100% of the time, what's even the point?
    There can be some interesting play in these types of things. Like a WoW Rogues Slice and Dice (Or roll the bones, whatever it is now) buff, where the play is in keeping the buff running while also using your combo points on your other finishers. That creates an interesting dynamic, where you've got to decide if you've got enough time to build combo points for another finisher, should pool your energy and wait for your current Slice and Dice to run out to recast, or as in previous expansions, use a finisher with less than 5 points so as not to waste your combo points.

    Obviously that example relies on other core class mechanics to make it work, but having those mechanics tied to an important buff makes it an interesting and crucial part of your gameplay. Simple maintainance buffs/debuffs can be an important part of the overall package.

    The problem FF14 has is that not many of it's Jobs have their own unique mechanics, most usually have unique gimicks, but not actual mechanical differences. The only way they can really add these kinds of buffs is as "Press this button once every 30 seconds" type skills. That doesn't make for an interesting decision regarding how you're going to allocate your resources the same way Combo Points and Energy do, it reduces the play around the ability to pressing it pre-determined intervals.

  20. #44620
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTharne View Post
    To create a dps gap between people who maintain it and the ones who don't ?
    While a fair point, if that's the ONLY reason, that's a pretty terrible reason IMO. If they have to have something like this for whatever reason, at least make it interesting to use. As it is now, it's an annoying upkeep type of ability that only ever gets used to keep the buff up, that's not interesting or fun IMO. The effect and positional requirement could easily be baked into Vorpal Thrust or Heavy Thrust and game play would hardly change at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Probably balancing reasons.
    Classes are ridiculously similar in this game (like every class has a +% you need to keep up, every class has some kind of DoT etc... and that makes it easier to balance.
    This may be a stupid question, but why couldn't they just balance a class around NOT having something like that to upkeep? Or would that just skew the DPS because that class would outperform everything else because of it's lack of upkeep, because it's "easier" than the others that do have an upkeep mechanic?

    I really do hope SE gets away from that style of class design, everything is far too similar. The only two I ever felt stood out as a bit different were RDM and SAM. RDM has no upkeep mechanic of any kind and SAM upkeep flows naturally as you do your rotation. Everything else requires you to pay attention and use an ability or skill chain you wouldn't normally use to maintain a buff/debuff.

    The classes still feel fine, it's just so obvious how similar they are in their design with these maintenance/upkeep mechanics.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackblade View Post
    I really hope RDM is the standard to which they make future classes (at least from a DPS perspective). In terms of damage rotation. It's the right amount of rotation + randomness, with a satisfying set of finishers that don't take two minutes to set up.
    Agreed, I just really like how straight forward it is to play and how much utility it has. The dualcast mechanic just clicked with me and I love it. I can't even count how many wipes I've prevented or clutch saves I've done with RDM and it's heals and resurrection along with it's Mana Shift ability to give healers mana as they get rezzed. Plus, I really like their aesthetic.


    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    There can be some interesting play in these types of things. Like a WoW Rogues Slice and Dice (Or roll the bones, whatever it is now) buff, where the play is in keeping the buff running while also using your combo points on your other finishers. That creates an interesting dynamic, where you've got to decide if you've got enough time to build combo points for another finisher, should pool your energy and wait for your current Slice and Dice to run out to recast, or as in previous expansions, use a finisher with less than 5 points so as not to waste your combo points.

    Obviously that example relies on other core class mechanics to make it work, but having those mechanics tied to an important buff makes it an interesting and crucial part of your gameplay. Simple maintainance buffs/debuffs can be an important part of the overall package.

    The problem FF14 has is that not many of it's Jobs have their own unique mechanics, most usually have unique gimicks, but not actual mechanical differences. The only way they can really add these kinds of buffs is as "Press this button once every 30 seconds" type skills. That doesn't make for an interesting decision regarding how you're going to allocate your resources the same way Combo Points and Energy do, it reduces the play around the ability to pressing it pre-determined intervals.
    Agreed on all accounts, just want to add I think the other problem FFXIV has is that too many of the classes have the same mechanic. It doesn't even feel different between classes.

    Having a buff to maintain is fine, it CAN be part of the core class mechanics, but not THE core class mechanic. However, having the buff/debuff be applied by a single button press that does nothing else is pretty boring. Your Rogue example is a good one, because it's a decision: spend combo points on buff refresh/maintenance or spend on another finisher? In FFXIV, some classes have the buff maintained by a combo, which isn't bad either, but if that's the only reason you ever do the combo, IMO, it's just a longer button press, it's not really a decision (insofar as the decision is binary: have DPS drop or put up the buff...the answer is obvious) and therefore uninteresting or fun, it FEELS like maintenance.

    Samurai does it well I think, because the buffs/debuffs you maintain are applied naturally as you do your combos to build for the big hit (forget what the points and sword draw ability is called), so eve though you're maintaining them, it's not cumbersome and doesn't disrupt the flow of the class game play.

    Again though, I don't think it would feel so bad if not every DPS class had something like this, but almost all do, with RDM being the only exception.

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