1. #44621
    Boy the credits to the MSQ rolled real early this time, but the final shot makes me wonder Is he actually crazy, like multiple personality crazy?
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  2. #44622
    Has anyone else put themselves on the waiting list for the Shadowbringers Physical Collector's Edition for PC? Been on it a couple weeks and am just wondering if anyone did it earlier and been notified of additional stock. Getting a bit anxious at this point since I haven't seen anything online or on the store page regarding replenishment happening at a certain time. I know there's plenty of time...just getting excited and want to have it ordered ASAP.

    I know they're working on it, or at least assuming they are because this happened last year. I just haven't heard anything.

  3. #44623
    High Overlord Graeham II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    Boy the credits to the MSQ rolled real early this time, but the final shot makes me wonder Is he actually crazy, like multiple personality crazy?
    He's likely being possessed by Solus to sow the seeds of chaos against his will.

  4. #44624
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham II View Post
    He's likely being possessed by Solus to sow the seeds of chaos against his will.
    Tinfoil hat theory: The Garlean flag is one big joke, with two black things closing in around a white one its the third eye representing the puppet on the throne and the ascians around them, but in this case its more literal with the two bodyguards whispering in his ear like Xorne and Thorne in FFIX
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  5. #44625
    Hildi : It was me, Greg!

    MSQ : What is truly behind the mind of Creepy Daddy ? And ma boi Real!Zenos will stall Garlemald during our travel to the first shard, The Truest of Bro right here.
    Last edited by MrTharne; 2019-03-26 at 06:26 PM.

  6. #44626
    Yeah after the credits i was like "oh, they DID remember him!"
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  7. #44627
    MSQ The ending of SB was anticlimatic and disappointing to say the least and we got nothing for the how or the why we're going to the 1st.

  8. #44628
    Quote Originally Posted by leviathonlx View Post
    MSQ The ending of SB was anticlimatic and disappointing to say the least and we got nothing for the how or the why we're going to the 1st.
    I may be remembering incorrectly, but I don't remember us (as the player character) knowing we'd be heading to Doma after Heavensward. All signs pointed to Ala Mhigo. The story may have hinted we MIGHT go there with the story with Gosetsu and Yugiri, but nothing in stone. The only reason we really knew about it was because of information being circulated about Stormblood showing us we would certainly go to Doma, but the MSQ didn't bring up us going to Doma until a little ways into the Stormblood MSQ. Again, as I remember it.

  9. #44629
    Quote Originally Posted by leviathonlx View Post
    MSQ The ending of SB was anticlimatic and disappointing to say the least and we got nothing for the how or the why we're going to the 1st.
    I think thats why this one felt so short. In the last two there was an undetermined amount of time between turning the last quest in and when you got to ishgard or the war to free ala mihgo or sail to kugane began. By the looks of things Stormblood ends and you are straight up outside the location searching for the maguffin to 'throw wide the gates' immediately. Considering where we are going and how we are story wise going to be very separate from home this is the only way to do it and still have your character bumming around Eorzea for 3 months. In the future though its probably going to feel a lot more fluid while as time goes on i imagine going from ARR to HW must feel a lot more like a time skip or fast forward by comparison.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  10. #44630
    Bloodsail Admiral Gutler's Avatar
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    So apparently the FFXV event stuff has been datamined and the regalia is going to cost 200k MGP.

    Sig by Elyssia "When you do things right people won't be sure you've done anything at all"

  11. #44631
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    There can be some interesting play in these types of things. Like a WoW Rogues Slice and Dice (Or roll the bones, whatever it is now) buff, where the play is in keeping the buff running while also using your combo points on your other finishers. That creates an interesting dynamic, where you've got to decide if you've got enough time to build combo points for another finisher, should pool your energy and wait for your current Slice and Dice to run out to recast, or as in previous expansions, use a finisher with less than 5 points so as not to waste your combo points.

    Obviously that example relies on other core class mechanics to make it work, but having those mechanics tied to an important buff makes it an interesting and crucial part of your gameplay. Simple maintainance buffs/debuffs can be an important part of the overall package.

    The problem FF14 has is that not many of it's Jobs have their own unique mechanics, most usually have unique gimicks, but not actual mechanical differences. The only way they can really add these kinds of buffs is as "Press this button once every 30 seconds" type skills. That doesn't make for an interesting decision regarding how you're going to allocate your resources the same way Combo Points and Energy do, it reduces the play around the ability to pressing it pre-determined intervals.
    Also @Katchii

    Speaking personally - I don't really think anything that qualifies as a maintenance buff as good design. Even if there's a binary choice associated. I look at something like DRG and I see Heavy Thrust. This is a pointless button. We all agree there, but there's still so much room for improvement (if the goal is engagement/depth). Jumps shouldn't be just bland DPS buttons to press on CD. Not only that, they should be used much more frequently and there should be methods to accrue, save, or dump them as necessary. That should be the DRGs main focus. Look at BotD. It doesn't even need to be a button anymore. Just make it a passive in combat.

    I could go on, but the issue IMO is that it all stems back to encounter design. You can design jobs with more decision points/trees, but if encounters never utilize them, they're irrelevant (see half of each jobs kit). I honestly think the game needs a shift in design where the mechanics are much more varied and frequent with lower stakes.

    Pushing a button should always allow you to do something you couldn't otherwise. Unlocking skills/abilities, resource management, utility/mobility. If it's a pointless number change that you cannot feel, it's a pointless button IMO.

  12. #44632
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    Mine is currently only in the 40's, and the job is absolutely awful to play. I've never held "it gets better at end game" to be a reasonable argument in it's favour - Having to slog through a broken mess to get to the "good" part of a job is just terrible for the player.
    Tbf as much as I enjoy FFXIV that is 90% of the game for every Job. SAM and RDM were only a bit better since they start at 50 thus have already got some of their core abilties. I find the only Classes that don't feel like a trainwreck Pre-50/60ish is AST, WHM and to some extent MNK.

  13. #44633
    Quote Originally Posted by leviathonlx View Post
    MSQ The ending of SB was anticlimatic and disappointing to say the least and we got nothing for the how or the why we're going to the 1st.
    Honestly, I was surprised how short it was for the finale and yes, how anticlimactic it felt compared to past ones. This feeling is amplified by the tone the trailer set.

    (Going to put the whole thing in spoilers since this main thread still has some players noting they're still experiencing all expansion stories)

    Think back:

    A Realm Reborn: Final MSQ we are just totally broken. We lose everything we've built up and we're branded as assassins. We flee to Ishgard alongside Tataru and Alphinaud.
    Heavensward Trailer: Depicts that MSQ in snippets and starts with the long, sullen trudge through the snow into Ishgard. We see how crestfallen Alphinaud and Tataru look and the Warrior of Light is shown to be angry in Ul'dah and rather sullen going into Ishgard.

    Heavensward: Final MSQ is disastrous with the Eorzean Alliance yanked into a war they weren't prepared to wage thanks to the Griffon, but ready and willing to commit to the liberation of Ala Mhigo. We were marching in from a position of strength after ARR ended at a place of weakness.
    Stormblood Trailer: Warrior of Light and (we now know Lyse) train atop the giant statue as the rebellion prepares for war below. We're then shown the battle will extend across the world to the far east.

    With the Shadowbringers trailer, we did see the Stormblood showdown of the Warrior of Light fighting Zenos, but with the Warrior of Light seeming so haggard and exhausted, the barren landscape, and the gremlin taunting him, I was expecting a little more of a "all seems lost" MSQ conclusion putting us more in that situation. Of course, if we're going to The First, that's hard to put in place pre-expansion. I guess I was expecting something more akin to A Realm Reborn's ending with a really weighted climax to take us so low in the trailer.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    Tbf as much as I enjoy FFXIV that is 90% of the game for every Job. SAM and RDM were only a bit better since they start at 50 thus have already got some of their core abilties. I find the only Classes that don't feel like a trainwreck Pre-50/60ish is AST, WHM and to some extent MNK.
    I felt NIN was a well done gradual build. They never felt like they were particularly lacking and the expanding toolset felt more natural and enjoyable. At least from ARR through HW. I feel like the ability prune and the new SB abilities were extremely disappointing. I hope they get some of the ninjutsu we've seen other shinobi using.



    That brings a thought.... I wonder if we'll be able to freely move from The First to The Source in Shadowbringers or if the story will be more akin to WoW's Warlords where, for a time, we're stuck on one side. If so, will we meet job users of The First and we'll learn new skills from them or will we be able to move freely between the two via the Crystal Tower and we'll continue training with job quests from Eorzea. Hmmm.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2019-03-27 at 01:41 PM.

  14. #44634
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post

    That brings a thought.... I wonder if we'll be able to freely move from The First to The Source in Shadowbringers or if the story will be more akin to WoW's Warlords where, for a time, we're stuck on one side. If so, will we meet job users of The First and we'll learn new skills from them or will we be able to move freely between the two via the Crystal Tower and we'll continue training with job quests from Eorzea. Hmmm.
    Given the trailer i imagine storywise we are stuck on the First with the scions either in the bodies of their first world counterparts or actually interacting with those like a Gunbreaker Thancred and BLM 'Matoya' while characters like Cid and the Scions back home deal with the black rose situation and probably get some unwanted/expected help from Elezenos who sees killing a lot of empire soldiers as a way to home his skills in his new body while helping his 'friend' in a 'gotta catch up or they will leave me behind' vegeta kind of way. Or going wakes the main scions up and you fall into a coma and they are playable using the new system at intervals in the MSQ going 'meanwhile, back on the 14th'
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  15. #44635
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Also @Katchii

    Speaking personally - I don't really think anything that qualifies as a maintenance buff as good design. Even if there's a binary choice associated. I look at something like DRG and I see Heavy Thrust. This is a pointless button. We all agree there, but there's still so much room for improvement (if the goal is engagement/depth). Jumps shouldn't be just bland DPS buttons to press on CD. Not only that, they should be used much more frequently and there should be methods to accrue, save, or dump them as necessary. That should be the DRGs main focus. Look at BotD. It doesn't even need to be a button anymore. Just make it a passive in combat.

    I could go on, but the issue IMO is that it all stems back to encounter design. You can design jobs with more decision points/trees, but if encounters never utilize them, they're irrelevant (see half of each jobs kit). I honestly think the game needs a shift in design where the mechanics are much more varied and frequent with lower stakes.

    Pushing a button should always allow you to do something you couldn't otherwise. Unlocking skills/abilities, resource management, utility/mobility. If it's a pointless number change that you cannot feel, it's a pointless button IMO.
    Some classes are simply built around these kinds of things though. If it's not simply a buff/debuff it's a DoT that you have to maintain. I agree that it shouldn't just be a button to press to maintain it, so I agree on that point, but I don't take issue with maintaining a buff/debuff as a concept.

    As you said, I think the biggest issue is how the encounters are designed. If core job mechanics can't be effectively utilized, or (like in my case) people stop using their favorite class because of how that class mechanic just doesn't really mesh well with how encounters are designed, that's a bad thing.

  16. #44636
    Quote Originally Posted by Remilia View Post
    Honestly I'd prefer if they were effeminate (relatively) speaking male, not because of any fetish but because it'd be a better contrast to typical stereotype. Like Granyala said, a reverse to the Au Ra would be more unique as opposed to more of the same.
    Now I am envisioning Having these tall, serious as a heart attack, female Viera, and these miniscule, hyper-energetic, overly carefree, chibi bunny boys. It'll probably not go that way.

    I'm thinking more likely it'll be something like This Guy but with bunny ears.

  17. #44637
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Honestly, I was surprised how short it was for the finale and yes, how anticlimactic it felt compared to past ones. This feeling is amplified by the tone the trailer set.

    (Going to put the whole thing in spoilers since this main thread still has some players noting they're still experiencing all expansion stories)

    Think back:

    A Realm Reborn: Final MSQ we are just totally broken. We lose everything we've built up and we're branded as assassins. We flee to Ishgard alongside Tataru and Alphinaud.
    Heavensward Trailer: Depicts that MSQ in snippets and starts with the long, sullen trudge through the snow into Ishgard. We see how crestfallen Alphinaud and Tataru look and the Warrior of Light is shown to be angry in Ul'dah and rather sullen going into Ishgard.

    Heavensward: Final MSQ is disastrous with the Eorzean Alliance yanked into a war they weren't prepared to wage thanks to the Griffon, but ready and willing to commit to the liberation of Ala Mhigo. We were marching in from a position of strength after ARR ended at a place of weakness.
    Stormblood Trailer: Warrior of Light and (we now know Lyse) train atop the giant statue as the rebellion prepares for war below. We're then shown the battle will extend across the world to the far east.

    With the Shadowbringers trailer, we did see the Stormblood showdown of the Warrior of Light fighting Zenos, but with the Warrior of Light seeming so haggard and exhausted, the barren landscape, and the gremlin taunting him, I was expecting a little more of a "all seems lost" MSQ conclusion putting us more in that situation. Of course, if we're going to The First, that's hard to put in place pre-expansion. I guess I was expecting something more akin to A Realm Reborn's ending with a really weighted climax to take us so low in the trailer.


    - - - Updated - - -



    I felt NIN was a well done gradual build. They never felt like they were particularly lacking and the expanding toolset felt more natural and enjoyable. At least from ARR through HW. I feel like the ability prune and the new SB abilities were extremely disappointing. I hope they get some of the ninjutsu we've seen other shinobi using.



    That brings a thought.... I wonder if we'll be able to freely move from The First to The Source in Shadowbringers or if the story will be more akin to WoW's Warlords where, for a time, we're stuck on one side. If so, will we meet job users of The First and we'll learn new skills from them or will we be able to move freely between the two via the Crystal Tower and we'll continue training with job quests from Eorzea. Hmmm.
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    Given the trailer i imagine storywise we are stuck on the First with the scions either in the bodies of their first world counterparts or actually interacting with those like a Gunbreaker Thancred and BLM 'Matoya' while characters like Cid and the Scions back home deal with the black rose situation and probably get some unwanted/expected help from Elezenos who sees killing a lot of empire soldiers as a way to home his skills in his new body while helping his 'friend' in a 'gotta catch up or they will leave me behind' vegeta kind of way. Or going wakes the main scions up and you fall into a coma and they are playable using the new system at intervals in the MSQ going 'meanwhile, back on the 14th'
    I have a feeling it's going to be very Warlords-ish in that you're stuck there for a certain period of time until you progress far enough in the MSQ. If that's the case I doubt it would be a lengthy period of time at all, just long enough to acclimate to the new surroundings and familiarize yourself with whatever power/item/beacon you're using to traverse the space between worlds. That hooded guy at the end of the Stormblood MSQ will likely be involved very early and will accommodate this transition pretty quickly.

  18. #44638
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    There can be some interesting play in these types of things. Like a WoW Rogues Slice and Dice (Or roll the bones, whatever it is now) buff, where the play is in keeping the buff running while also using your combo points on your other finishers. That creates an interesting dynamic, where you've got to decide if you've got enough time to build combo points for another finisher, should pool your energy and wait for your current Slice and Dice to run out to recast, or as in previous expansions, use a finisher with less than 5 points so as not to waste your combo points.
    The thing is, Slice and Dice itself is not interesting part of it, managing multiple resources is. I'd be fine with something like this if there were at least several buffs you had to choose from (like warlock curses or shaman totems, but better balanced between each other).
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  19. #44639
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    The thing is, Slice and Dice itself is not interesting part of it, managing multiple resources is. I'd be fine with something like this if there were at least several buffs you had to choose from (like warlock curses or shaman totems, but better balanced between each other).
    Without Slice and Dice, Rogues would just use Sinister Strike until 5 points, Evicerate and repeat ad infinitum. The game play needs something to shake things up or else it becomes rote and predictable. Having a timed buff that costs resources is one way - It asks you to plan ahead if you want to squeeze out the most DPS possible. The effect of Slice and Dice is immediately noticable and impactful. It also has broader considerations with Poisons, Procs and so on too.

    There are times when you don't want to refresh it, and instead want to use your Combo Points on another finisher (Things are about to die soon). Times where you might want to skip using it all together (Bursting down adds or solo play). Times where you might want to let it drop, but have the Combo Points saved for later (phase changes and disconnects). Using it well is a mixture of experience and intuition, and can help separate the good Rogues from the bad ones.

    The class would be much less interesting without it, the Combo Point and Energy mechanics alone don't make for a compelling experience.

    FF14 gets this wrong on multiple levels. First of all their buffs aren't hugely impactful the way Slice and Dice is. Slice and Dice makes you go fast. Heavy Thrust just gives you a flat damage modifer that you won't notice unless you're looking out for it. Having them separate from the combo system means you simply press them after X number of combos have been completed. That makes it feel like maintainance rather than an informed player decision.

    Not having any strong Job mechanics also presents a huge hurdle too. It means the choice to keep your buff up is purely decorative - There's almost never a situation where refreshing is the wrong call. The opportunity cost is just one GCD, so it's almost never a waste the way it would be if you burned 5 Combo Points on a Slice and Dice and the boss died 5 seconds later. Not having an actual resource cost or requiring job mechanics prevents it from ever being a meaningful choice.

    At this point however the problems have been baked in as part of the jobs themselves. To fix it and allow self buffs/debuffs to be engaging would require a complete overhaul almost from the ground up for most Jobs. As much as I would like to see it happen, I can see Squenix brushing it under the rug as being too much hard work, and the longer they leave it the harder it will get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Pushing a button should always allow you to do something you couldn't otherwise. Unlocking skills/abilities, resource management, utility/mobility. If it's a pointless number change that you cannot feel, it's a pointless button IMO.
    I get the impression that a lot of jobs have pointless buttons just so they've got the same number of skills as everyone else. They should probably cull almost all of a Jobs skillset and scale things back to just the essentials like they do in PvP.

    Imagine if BotD was, effectively, a button that turned you Super Saiyan for 20 seconds. You can repeatedly jump, move at 4 times your normal run speed, your GCD is much faster and all your attacks are gaurenteed crits for the duration. Maybe put Wings and a Tail on the player too, make it feel awesome. It's the only cooldown you'd ever need on a single button. Then you could remove Life Surge, Blood for Blood and Battle Littany, you've essentialy combined them all into a super cooldown.

    The same is true with Jump. I would much rather have the coolest, most awesome version of Jump than multiple weaker Jumps and Dives. Just because you're playing an MMO doesn't mean it should be okay to ask players to have 12 different hotbars plastered all over their UI just to hold everything. Sometimes less is more.

  20. #44640
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Well, that was a short MSQ continuation. Nothing unexpected happened either.
    Hmm.

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