[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Florena]

Everything I saw points pretty clearly at this being an epilogue to the story of FFT.

For one thing, Tactics is set i the same Ivalice that XII is...yet XIV takes great liberties. Timeline wise FF XII took place long before Tactics, but in FF XIV it's reversed where the XII inspired stuff is happening recently and the Tactics stuff is ancient history. Details are also off. Like Fran being a general.

Things don't really line up with old games, and that's because FF XIV is simply adapting thigns into its own world without BEING those old worlds. Just like the gold saucer in FFXIV is not the FF VII Gold Saucer. Doma in FF XIV is not the FF VI Doma. Ivalice in FFXIV references XII and Tactics but it isn't the same version. For one thing, Ramza dies in the FFXIV version where as he leaves Ivalice in the Tactics version.

[Graeham II]

I'm impressed by how smooth the world visit feature is. Of course, the real test will be during the expansion's launch...

[Katchii]

For one thing, Tactics is set i the same Ivalice that XII is...yet XIV takes great liberties. Timeline wise FF XII took place long before Tactics, but in FF XIV it's reversed where the XII inspired stuff is happening recently and the Tactics stuff is ancient history. Details are also off. Like Fran being a general.

Things don't really line up with old games, and that's because FF XIV is simply adapting thigns into its own world without BEING those old worlds. Just like the gold saucer in FFXIV is not the FF VII Gold Saucer. Doma in FF XIV is not the FF VI Doma. Ivalice in FFXIV references XII and Tactics but it isn't the same version. For one thing, Ramza dies in the FFXIV version where as he leaves Ivalice in the Tactics version.

After the events of Tactics, Delita becomes King and Ramza just kind of disappears, with no real discussion as to where. The story of what happens in FFXIV with Ivalice is the continuation of the events of FFT. The characters from FFT become guardians, protecting Ultima from outside interlopers using the power of the Zodiac stones.

Yes it takes some liberties, specifically by adding references to XII being more recent, but it's not meant to be an alternate set of events of FFT, it's a tale of what happened after FFT. The dialogue as the raid goes along, especially in Orbonne Monastery at the end alludes HEAVILY to that.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually I agree with you but, (yes there is a but) people play MMOs to play with their friends. It shouldn't take long to be able to do that.
It's a general problem of MMOs that most of the "play together" experience is locked past max level unless both start at the same time.

Regarding the story: I think that dropping it completely was probably too much, aye.
They should trim it down to a concise (but still well fleshed out) main story arc and drop all the annoying side things and fetch quests designed to drag things out. That is okay when it is the current expansion but when it is 4 years old content, a refocus is in order.

Completely agreed.

[Kaelwryn]

its been said by the creator of tactics himself that 14's story is not a continuation of tactics/12.

https://twitter.com/YasumiMatsuno/st...25941372215297

誤情報を拡散されると困るので記しておく。
It is troublesome to dispel misinformation, so I will write this down:

「FFTのその後のストーリー」じゃ*いよ！
It is not a "story that takes place after Final Fantasy Tactics"!

14時間生放送で語ったとおり、FF14というテーマパーク内にイヴァリ ースをもってきたらというコンセプト！　続編でも*んでも*い！
As I said during the 14-Hour Broadcast, our concept is bringing an Ivalice attraction into the theme park we call Final Fantasy XIV. IT'S NOT A SEQUEL!

バーロー！w
Ya dolts! LOL

#FF14 #リターントゥイヴァリース
#FF14 #ReturnToIvalice

[Onikaroshi]

Actually I agree with you but, (yes there is a but) people play MMOs to play with their friends. It shouldn't take long to be able to do that.
It's a general problem of MMOs that most of the "play together" experience is locked past max level unless both start at the same time.

Regarding the story: I think that dropping it completely was probably too much, aye.
They should trim it down to a concise (but still well fleshed out) main story arc and drop all the annoying side things and fetch quests designed to drag things out. That is okay when it is the current expansion but when it is 4 years old content, a refocus is in order.

The way the MSQ is built though... that's no easy task. I'm hesitant to call for anything beyond post 50 questline revamps as that's an insane amount of dev work to try to trim down the MSQ as a whole.

[Merie]

PLD used to be my most hated but the level when they get Requiscat I find it suddenly becoming much more fun, in general once they have their full DPS combo and caster/MP dump phase I find them to be a very comfortable and formulaic tank, it's a different pace from warrior but just as fun

I'm leveling a Paladin and this has been my biggest challenge getting into the game, coming to it from WoW. I haven't had a 2 button Paladin rotation to level with since Vanilla WoW back in '05. I would rather have had a more interesting rotation rather than a bazillion tank cooldowns to manage.

[Granyala]

The way the MSQ is built though... that's no easy task. I'm hesitant to call for anything beyond post 50 questline revamps as that's an insane amount of dev work to try to trim down the MSQ as a whole.

Yup, which is why I think we won't ever see one.
Esp not since Blizzard got burned by the Cata revamp b/c it came at the cost of endgame content and Yoshida will be afraid of the same happening in XIV.

They'll eventually give out a few limited free boosts like Blizzard did in WoW once the expansions start to rack up.

[Wrecktangle]

I'm fine with them gutting down the story a bit.

Outright removing it as a requirement? Hell no.

I like having to do the story as this game series is focused on it. Plus it's actually a decent story for the most part.

They already removed it as a requirement. It's just a paid one, rather than included with the cost of the expansion. All my point was saying that the game (which is not a bad game by any means and the story is indeed good) desperately needs a solution if it wants to continue to grow. The wall gets bigger every expansion and scares new players more and more. I can't imagine how many players it snagged due to BfA being awful, but imagine how many more it could have kept if the UX was actually good. At the end of the day money talks and the more money FF14 makes the more likely we as a community are to benefit in SOME capacity.

Idk about other people for me I have 0 interest in the story in ff14 because of the way it's presented.

pick up quest, teleport to a million different places only to hand in 1 thing to the npc or to have a short dialogue with them. Add in some cutscenes here and there. In a singleplayer game this would be equivalent to forcing people to backtrack a bunch of times to different locations to advance the story. Obviously it's not exactly the same since in ff14 we just teleport but there's loading screens and idk it just completely breaks the immersion for me.

Bingo. If FF14 was the industry standard in quest design and engagement I'd argue the leveling would be less of an issue, possibly not an issue at all. The problem is early FF14 is generally seen as one of the worst experiences in MMO history for experienced MMOers. The gameplay and quest design do not synergize well together at all, nor does the core game structure (rampant load screens, teleporting, etc.).

In reverse, I've had numerous friends start and while parts of the MSQ have been sluggish, they've overall enjoyed it and have climbed up to Stormblood within reasonable time. You're not going to start and be at endgame in 2 weeks like WoW, but it wasn't long ago that people said MMOs needed to NOT BE WOW and even WoW's playerbase is divided on the insta-level design and saying leveling needs a full rework to feel like there's a progress to it instead of instantly outleveling everything you start.

For sure and I don't mean to say that everyone shares my friends experiences. However, you're being a brat if you think that the majority of new players stick around or have no issues/concerns. It's widely known and documented how frustrating the ARR experience is and you'd be hard pressed to find people who think that FF14 doesn't need to improve its leveling flow.

WoW's playerbase is divided on leveling design. That's true. That's why the developers give you the option as part of the expansion to skip a lot of it. It's the smarter new player growth tool. It's not forced. Hell I have like 6 boosts on my account because I only play one character. I've never used them. The few times I've dabbled in alts, it was to play with friends, not to rush to an end game I'm already playing on another character.

It's weird how often I'm starting to see gamers actually arguing that the developers should sacrifice their integrity in the pursuit of more money and that they should place their profits above all else. From Sekiro's designer should pursue profits over the tight polish and niche audience they target to Square should care more about subscriptions than the integrity of the story in a story driven game.

They already did sacrifice the integrity by adding a paid skip. By introducing the boosts they acknowledged the problem and identified a solution. I'm merely asking to make the solution free as part of the cost of an expansion to cater to players who may not be invested in story content, or who really want to get to current challenging content with their friends.

Re: Sekiro - I'm torn. On one hand I don't think the same rules apply for a single player experience as they do for a multiplayer one. If FF14 was a purely solo game we wouldn't be having this discussion you know? I enjoyed Sekiro, but the learning curve was real. The game actually did tell me strategies that work and I just ignored them. It wasn't until Genichiro that I learned I didn't know how to play the game at all. Then it went from floundering to me being a literal master of the game and blowing through everything with ease.

I've just hit a point where more and more I feel that not every game has to be designed to appeal to every player and the industry is healthier when different games and genres appeal to differing demographics and niches.

Mind you I agree here in theory, but applications can and will vary significantly between genre and type. I don't think you need to cater to every player, but MMO's thrive on a larger playerbase. It drives new content and keeps things alive. New player retention and growth are of paramount importance.

Yup, which is why I think we won't ever see one.
Esp not since Blizzard got burned by the Cata revamp b/c it came at the cost of endgame content and Yoshida will be afraid of the same happening in XIV.

They'll eventually give out a few limited free boosts like Blizzard did in WoW once the expansions start to rack up.

Which comes full circle to what I originally asked for. I'd be scared of a full revamp ala Cata. I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just worried it won't be done right, or at what cost? There are MUCH better alternatives to this problem, and it rhymes with free skip and job potion included with expansion.

[cuafpr]

How's playing Ps4? read a few postive reviews but still curious. For whatever reason i dont get on my gaming PC much anymore so using the same account on each has some draw to it.

[Eleccybubb]

How's playing Ps4? read a few postive reviews but still curious. For whatever reason i dont get on my gaming PC much anymore so using the same account on each has some draw to it.

PS4 Player here.

Plays just fine. Is uncapped upto 60 fps which means it can drop below 30 (and it will sometimes on a base model). But more than playable.
Is crossplay with PC (you need separate keys for PC and PS4) so don't worry about people to play with.
Plays just fine with a controller (PS4 has kb/mouse support too).

All in all it's fine basically. . You will not be hampered at all by playing on PS4.

[bloodwulf]

I was talking with a friend. He is somewhat interested in playing, but does not want to do the 1-60 grind, especially after reading about the post ARR quests before Heavensward. I think the game would greatly be served by by a complete edition of the game after the new expansion releases, that includes a job and story boost and the previous 2 expansions. If story is that important, they can include a "story so far" bit that maybe plays all the skipped cinematics, though i'd argue the story is not that important for ARR, as i skipped from 30 to Heavensward and do not feel like i missed anything of any importance.

I only kept playing past the 30s by sheer determination, i bought the boost to 60 and the ARR MSQ skip, and played through Heavensward, and am now working through SB. I know a lot of people would not like the idea of buying the game, 2 expansions, and being told it will be one to two months before you can participate with friends, and i am sure that there is a non-negligible percentage of people that stop playing because of ARR.

[TheCookieGod]

To be fair, you can't play with your friends 95% of the game anyway if you consider having to go through ARR as "not being able to play with them", what with the MSQ's frequent solo duties that you can't do while in a group.

And I'm fine with that, honestly. When I sell FF14 to friends, I tell them it's a singleplayer RPG trying to pretend it's an MMO with a better story and better gameplay than we've gotten from the mainstream Final Fantasy games in over a decade now - because that's what it is. It's why the devs made the cutscenes in Meridianum and Praet unskippable when they have been for years before that. I know there are some players that mash the skip button whenever they can, but anyone who does is depriving themselves of 14's most standout feature. Especially people who skip ARR's ending. =p

I'd rather see them double down on the game's storytelling before handing out free MSQ skips.

[Katchii]

I was talking with a friend. He is somewhat interested in playing, but does not want to do the 1-60 grind, especially after reading about the post ARR quests before Heavensward. I think the game would greatly be served by by a complete edition of the game after the new expansion releases, that includes a job and story boost and the previous 2 expansions. If story is that important, they can include a "story so far" bit that maybe plays all the skipped cinematics, though i'd argue the story is not that important for ARR, as i skipped from 30 to Heavensward and do not feel like i missed anything of any importance.

I only kept playing past the 30s by sheer determination, i bought the boost to 60 and the ARR MSQ skip, and played through Heavensward, and am now working through SB. I know a lot of people would not like the idea of buying the game, 2 expansions, and being told it will be one to two months before you can participate with friends, and i am sure that there is a non-negligible percentage of people that stop playing because of ARR.

100% agreed. Story skip and level boosts should be standard with every expansion from here on out specifically for this reason. Even as someone who is a huge story lover, the barrier of entry, for players wanting to play with friends or simply to see the current content, is just WAY too high without them. Especially since one of the features of Shadowbringers is to be able to go back and replay story missions, so players who use the skips can go back and experience the story if they so choose.

I'd wager that's exactly WHY they're putting this feature into Shadowbringers. With this feature, a MSQ revamp isn't really necessary, so long as they will provide a skip and level boost voucher (so you can choose which class to boost) with the expansions moving forward.

[Bugg]

1). How does the purchasing work/what version of the hame/dlc should I get once I decide that I want to buy/sub?
2). What will get a solo player faster groups? Healer or tank? And what is the wait time difference between a healer/tank and a dps for dungeons/raids?
Thanks.

[bloodwulf]

To be fair, you can't play with your friends 95% of the game anyway if you consider having to go through ARR as "not being able to play with them", what with the MSQ's frequent solo duties that you can't do while in a group.

And I'm fine with that, honestly. When I sell FF14 to friends, I tell them it's a singleplayer RPG trying to pretend it's an MMO with a better story and better gameplay than we've gotten from the mainstream Final Fantasy games in over a decade now - because that's what it is. It's why the devs made the cutscenes in Meridianum and Praet unskippable when they have been for years before that. I know there are some players that mash the skip button whenever they can, but anyone who does is depriving themselves of 14's most standout feature. Especially people who skip ARR's ending. =p

I'd rather see them double down on the game's storytelling before handing out free MSQ skips.

The story was alright in ARR (i went and watched the recap videos that people recommend), but the gameplay of ARR is awful. The quests are slow and boil down largely to talk to X teleport talk to y teleport talk to x, that coupled with most classes have half the abilities they would have 50+ you have slow combat and slow quests. ARR would not stand on its own a standalone Single Player RPG with the stripped down combat and bare bones questing. Now yes, the duties and primal fights are fun, but they are the exception not the rules.

If the early experience was similar to that of Heavensward forward, i don't think this is a conversation that anyone would be having, but right now, ARR is more of a burden on the New Player experience then its worth. You also want New Players for sustainability.

1). How does the purchasing work/what version of the hame/dlc should I get once I decide that I want to buy/sub?
2). What will get a solo player faster groups? Healer or tank? And what is the wait time difference between a healer/tank and a dps for dungeons/raids?
Thanks.

Tank and healers seem to be about the same speed in early levels. For some of the group content you have to do, it seems tanks are the last one to fill most of the time. DPS queue times range from 10-25 minutes typically from my experience.

[cuafpr]

PS4 Player here.

Plays just fine. Is uncapped upto 60 fps which means it can drop below 30 (and it will sometimes on a base model). But more than playable.
Is crossplay with PC (you need separate keys for PC and PS4) so don't worry about people to play with.
Plays just fine with a controller (PS4 has kb/mouse support too).

All in all it's fine basically. . You will not be hampered at all by playing on PS4.

thanks! i'm thinking of getting keys for my PS4 to link to my account so i can slack off on the couch and play some vs the PC all the time.

[Dugna]

making skipping the MSQ super easy and such just basically kills it all together, the deimportance in lvling in WoW is totally different from in FF14, in FF14 you do that MSQ once and thats it its only required once you don't have to keep redoing it to lvl or do anything else. But in WoW you have to relvl each class as a different toon all together from scratch both story and narrative wise thats why if somebody says "I want to skip lvling and get to endgame" on a alt in WoW its whatever you probably already done it. But basically once you make MSQ not needed or required or skippable it leads to people not doing certain content which makes que times for example horrendus for people wanting to play organically.

I'm all for quests like again kill 10/10 sprites being cut down to like 2/2 or 4/4 something really fast and just adjust the exp but i'm not for it all being skipped on a easy free basis, if you really super wish to skip the story you pay for it which makes the impact lessened massively.

Lvling alt jobs is already ridiculously easy even without exp boosts and now we have tons.

[Onikaroshi]

But basically once you make MSQ not needed or required or skippable it leads to people not doing certain content which makes que times for example horrendus for people wanting to play organically.

Considering Leveling and MSQ are very worth it, I don't think that will ever be a problem

[bloodwulf]

making skipping the MSQ super easy and such just basically kills it all together, the deimportance in lvling in WoW is totally different from in FF14, in FF14 you do that MSQ once and thats it its only required once you don't have to keep redoing it to lvl or do anything else. But in WoW you have to relvl each class as a different toon all together from scratch both story and narrative wise thats why if somebody says "I want to skip lvling and get to endgame" on a alt in WoW its whatever you probably already done it. But basically once you make MSQ not needed or required or skippable it leads to people not doing certain content which makes que times for example horrendus for people wanting to play organically.

I'm all for quests like again kill 10/10 sprites being cut down to like 2/2 or 4/4 something really fast and just adjust the exp but i'm not for it all being skipped on a easy free basis, if you really super wish to skip the story you pay for it which makes the impact lessened massively.

Lvling alt jobs is already ridiculously easy even without exp boosts and now we have tons.

If they did something to speed it up, that might be better, but honestly, the MSQ is probably 70% talking and teleporting, with 30% of it actually do combat stuff. So even what you suggest would barely touch the speed of it. There are quests that literally have you talk to one NPC, walk 5 feet, talk to another NPC, then teleport away and talk to another NPC, then return to the original, and they barely progress the story during this process. Heavensward did a much better job of cutting a lot of that out and SB seems to be even more streamlined, both of which are examples of how the game should be.

[Dugna]

Considering Leveling and MSQ are very worth it, I don't think that will ever be a problem

k lets say every new person who purchased SHB got a skip to atleast patch 4.0 or heck even patch 4.4, now lets say thats about maybe 200-300k people, thats about 200-300k people who will have no investment no interest in the content because they don't know the story, so when SHB comes out they will skip everything bitch that things take to long and that the MSQ is "tedious" or not know the simple mechs of how quests even work in FF14, even worse they will not know a single thing bout their class/job at all. I remember when blizzard started giving out free boosts with expacs it lead to tons of people feeling entitled to clear everything and do everything with no effort at all. its much better to lets say have 50-100k steady interested users then 500k people who play for one week or 2 and then ditch for months on end not even completing a thing