[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[dope_danny]

I reached lvl 70 yesterday and finished SB MSQ (4.0), the game has been a breeze this far but now it feels like I've come into a full stop. I'd love to continue into SB Patch MSQ but it's instances are ilvl locked so I'd have to gear up to level 360 equipped ilvl anyway. What's the recommended way to gear up at lvl 70 according to MMO-Champion?

I don't want to whine, but I've found out the hard way that this game is no WoW where you get handed infinite amount of upgrades (at least for a while) the moment you reach max level in current expansion. I've found out a guide on Reddit (but it's for Patch 4.3) and seems pretty complicated, with lots of stuff to do.

There will be a time when you can buy Scaevar Gear with Tomestones of Poetics but it'll happen at ShB Launch so it's too late to wait for that if you still have MSQ to finish.

Additionally I'd like to upgrade my Relic Weapon a bit in Eureka, but getting started seems difficult this late into expansion when many players who do Eureka are already at High Eureka Lvl, so I'm not getting any invites to Fate Trains at Eureka Level 6 and soloing is so slow. How come there is no group finder for Eureka?

an easy tip i've been using for alt jobs for fresh 70's is do the daily hunts and every day you can net yourself a 330 ironworks weapon, gear too but thats easier to get in other ways compared to weapons.

[Wrecktangle]

I'll enjoy tanks being a DPS with enmity too, but positionals don't bother me that much....just when there's too many of them and the tanks an idiot that won't hold still. Monk is going to be a pain this expansion with the increase in attack speed alongside positionals. I've never mained it, but it's always been fun when I leveled it.

I like positionals.
Unless I have a random tank who makes it a sport to needlessly run and twist.

BTW: tanks have positionals too: It's called "Do not let the mouth or the butt of the dragon point towards the group"

Nah - party can adjust.

I kid - here's my beef with positionals for those who may not recall. First off, they're nearly irrelevant in solo play. Secondly, in a raiding environment a good third of them are omni-directional thus irrelevant. They added a button to overcome this limitation (button bloat IMO). They've significantly reduced the punishment for failing to meet them as the game grows. Over half the jobs don't even have them. Lastly and arguably most importantly, the netcode just doesn't support movement/positional tracking efficiently, consistently, or in an aesthetically pleasing manner.

When you combine all of these elements, it makes you wonder why they do exist. I know they do add some depth to the melee dps role, but at what cost? I could come up with a half a dozen other systems or job changes to add any complexity removed. Alternatively, they could just have one job (let's say MNK) who's whole kit is designed and balanced around positionals.

Downloaded ACT and my first run I was doubling the damage of the other DPS and tripling on AOE. Which is weird, because I'm a purple/orange parser in WoW, but I definitely know that I'm not nearly as good at FF14 yet. I wonder how many people never find out what a proper rotation is because dps guides aren't as wide spread and they don't have ACT so they don't know that they aren't that good at the game.

This is standard. Although I'm curious, what content were you doing and at what level and what jobs (you and them)? Also what did you set your encounter culling value to? Default is probably too short for a lot of different content types. The reason I ask is because it could skew your results. For instance low level dungeons with poor encounter culling settings and say you're a RDM and they're a DRG, etc.

But to add context, I'm also an orange parser (Ret Pal) in WoW, and I main tank in FF14 (PLD). There are dungeons and alliance raids where I'm top DPS, or above a DPS (or multiple) as a tank.

Because the vast majority of the community simply don't care if they're bad, they play for fun, this isn't WoW where everyone has their heads up their own ass over how good they are and that's a damn good thing because that shit breeds toxicity and FFXIV doesn't need WoW's toxicity seeping in.

Can you point on the dummy where the raider touched you?

Snark aside - you may feel that the game has no toxicity, but toxicity is fluid concept not something absolute. What may be toxic to you may not be to me and vice versa. You consider measuring and judging based on performance as toxic. I don't. You may consider a healer sitting idle 80% of a dungeon as not toxic, but I do.

[Poppincaps]

I wasnt really trying to brag or shit on anyone. Honestly without ACT nothing in the run would've even bothered me. We didn't wipe and the run went pretty fast from what I could tell. I was just observing the differences in the communities and how access of information changes things. I'm a game designer so these things are of particular interest to me. Anyways, I just downloaded it to see if I was trash or not and after doing multiple dungeons and raids and doing high dps relatively I feel I can continue playing the way I do without fear of holding my groups back. I might not even use it anymore unless I decide to get into Savage content in ShB.

[Katchii]

Nah - party can adjust.

I kid - here's my beef with positionals for those who may not recall. First off, they're nearly irrelevant in solo play. Secondly, in a raiding environment a good third of them are omni-directional thus irrelevant. They added a button to overcome this limitation (button bloat IMO). They've significantly reduced the punishment for failing to meet them as the game grows. Over half the jobs don't even have them. Lastly and arguably most importantly, the netcode just doesn't support movement/positional tracking efficiently, consistently, or in an aesthetically pleasing manner.

When you combine all of these elements, it makes you wonder why they do exist. I know they do add some depth to the melee dps role, but at what cost? I could come up with a half a dozen other systems or job changes to add any complexity removed. Alternatively, they could just have one job (let's say MNK) who's whole kit is designed and balanced around positionals.

I agree that positionals as a concept are flawed in FFXIV for the reasons you've stated, I've always disliked them because using them effectively is an act in futility in most content because of how much things move. Thinking about them and executing on them is not really fun, IMO, it's more frustrating than anything when you can't do it and doesn't really add anything exciting to the class from a game play perspective.

By "I don't mind positionals" I just mean that I accept them as part of the class/ game and am willing to deal with them if that's the class design, but I'm not trying to advocate that they're a great thing. I'll likely never main a melee DPS in this game because of them, unless it's one that makes very little use of them.

Can you point on the dummy where the raider touched you?

Snark aside - you may feel that the game has no toxicity, but toxicity is fluid concept not something absolute. What may be toxic to you may not be to me and vice versa. You consider measuring and judging based on performance as toxic. I don't. You may consider a healer sitting idle 80% of a dungeon as not toxic, but I do.

Because the vast majority of the community simply don't care if they're bad, they play for fun, this isn't WoW where everyone has their heads up their own ass over how good they are and that's a damn good thing because that shit breeds toxicity and FFXIV doesn't need WoW's toxicity seeping in.

I'd also recommend not using ACT to mock people or mentioning ACT, it's not a popular addon for a lot of people and from what I've read on the reddit SE can suspend/ban you if you use ACT to abuse people over their performances, whether that's true or not, I don't know but be careful when using it.

As Wreck said, toxicity is relative. IMO the passive aggressive mentality that seems to permeate FFXIV is far more toxic than the seemingly more overtly aggressive WoW mentality. At least in WoW, it's on the surface and you can see it, avoid it or ignore it and move on usually and not end up getting kicked from a group because of it. In general interactions in WoW are just more abrasive. I wouldn't call that "toxic."

In FFXIV, that passive aggressive mentality may mean people are more polite on the surface, but underneath you have folks who are vote kicking people because you said a bad word, reporting you for completely innocuous bullshit that simply "offended" them for some reason that you didn't know and cultivates this watch your back mentality because the thought police are out in force. You end up changing how you interact with the people in FFXIV because of it.

That's more "toxic" to me.

I wasnt really trying to brag or shit on anyone. Honestly without ACT nothing in the run would've even bothered me. We didn't wipe and the run went pretty fast from what I could tell. I was just observing the differences in the communities and how access of information changes things. I'm a game designer so these things are of particular interest to me. Anyways, I just downloaded it to see if I was trash or not and after doing multiple dungeons and raids and doing high dps relatively I feel I can continue playing the way I do without fear of holding my groups back. I might not even use it anymore unless I decide to get into Savage content in ShB.

At first, I didn't use it because I just didn't want to deal with it. It's not really a pain to set up, it just takes time and effort that I don't really want to spend since I don't care THAT much about the information it provides. But after hearing more and more people talk about it, I'll likely never use it. I'm happy enough now in my game play experience and installing it and using it could break that enjoyment because it will highlight all the stupid shit that happens in random groups. I know my performance is fine, I don't know exactly where I fall on the meters, but I know that my ranking has very little to do with skill and is almost entirely do to gear which I'm fine with. I'll continue enjoying the game without it. Ignorance really is bliss in this case...or so I've heard multiple times from several people in this thread.

[Granyala]

here's my beef with positionals for those who may not recall. First off, they're nearly irrelevant in solo play. Secondly, in a raiding environment a good third of them are omni-directional thus irrelevant. They added a button to overcome this limitation (button bloat IMO). They've significantly reduced the punishment for failing to meet them as the game grows. Over half the jobs don't even have them. Lastly and arguably most importantly, the netcode just doesn't support movement/positional tracking efficiently, consistently, or in an aesthetically pleasing manner.

Alas I have to agree on all points. I still like positionals, but I see where you come from and it is hard to deny your logic.

Esp. the solo point always bugged me. As for the netcode: I never played a class with positionals in a raid environment, in a dungeon you do them as well as you can and it seems to work .. mostly. Easiest to see when playing SAM because you get Kenki instead of slightly bugger numbers.

Then again, how many a trick attack didn't connect properly because the damn mob twitched in just that moment. ...

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Anyways, I just downloaded it to see if I was trash or not and after doing multiple dungeons and raids and doing high dps relatively I feel I can continue playing the way I do without fear of holding my groups back.

Exactly why playing w/o ACT aggravates me. It it infuriating to play blindfolded.
As a healer, I see when my healing is insufficient (and I instantly get FLAK for it lol, talk about toxic parser community, try failing as a healer and see what toxicity is all about)
As a tank, well.. ex tank since tanks are all but removed in Shadowbringers, same principles apply. Fail a tank mechanic, deliver not enough aggro -> people die and tanks get dissed hard.

Yet DPS are special because it's all hush hush and no one must see if one of them underperforms in any way!

[TriHard]

How long is it gonna take me to go through the Stormblood MSQs?

I'm like 1 hour into Yanxia at this point, just starting out the journey with Lyse and Yugiri.
Is it around the same length as Heavensward?

[Granyala]

A while.
Quite a while.

Yup, I'd say that it is comparable to endgame ARR or HW in quest density.

[Katchii]

Exactly why playing w/o ACT aggravates me. It it infuriating to play blindfolded.
As a healer, I see when my healing is insufficient (and I instantly get FLAK for it lol, talk about toxic parser community, try failing as a healer and see what toxicity is all about)
As a tank, well.. ex tank since tanks are all but removed in Shadowbringers, same principles apply. Fail a tank mechanic, deliver not enough aggro -> people die and tanks get dissed hard.

Yet DPS are special because it's all hush hush and no one must see if one of them underperforms in any way!

I can totally see this, in a raiding environment, where having the data can help you make the strategy tweaks to get the clear. However, in random dungeon stuff, normal raids, Alliance raids, etc... ("low" end content) it's not necessary and based on what I've heard around this forum it can just be aggravating because now you're acutely aware of every tiny discrepancy in performance between groups.

I can get behind the idea that having the data is better than not having it, but I also can't fully advocate that it's necessary in any other environment besides progression/ high end content because of the added aggravation or irritation that having that data in front of you provides in content where performance isn't THAT critical.

If seeing low numbers/ having the data in content where low numbers won't prevent you from clearing, aggravates you and ruins your play experience/ fun I'd question whether you're still playing for the "right" reason. I'm not going to try and say there's one right way or right reason, but IMO if you're not enjoying yourself...you're doing it wrong.

[Poppincaps]

How long is it gonna take me to go through the Stormblood MSQs?

I'm like 1 hour into Yanxia at this point, just starting out the journey with Lyse and Yugiri.
Is it around the same length as Heavensward?

There's like 40 more quests in difference between the Stormblood MSQ and the Heavensward MSQ, but I feel like they're still roughly the same length of time. Some of the Heavensward quests can be pretty long. As for the post 70 MSQ, I think it's roughly the same length as the post 60 MSQ.

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I can totally see this, in a raiding environment, where having the data can help you make the strategy tweaks to get the clear. However, in random dungeon stuff, normal raids, Alliance raids, etc... ("low" end content) it's not necessary and based on what I've heard around this forum it can just be aggravating because now you're acutely aware of every tiny discrepancy in performance between groups.

I can get behind the idea that having the data is better than not having it, but I also can't fully advocate that it's necessary in any other environment besides progression/ high end content because of the added aggravation or irritation that having that data in front of you provides in content where performance isn't THAT critical.

If seeing low numbers/ having the data in content where low numbers won't prevent you from clearing, aggravates you and ruins your play experience/ fun I'd question whether you're still playing for the "right" reason. I'm not going to try and say there's one right way or right reason, but IMO if you're not enjoying yourself...you're doing it wrong.

Well you could make an argument that you don't really want to be learning your weaknesses when you get to savage content. So dungeons, alliance raids, and even normal raids having that feedback on your play in different situations is definitely valuable for improving your play. Although this is just a situation where you've gotta know yourself and what you can and can't handle. Low DPS doesn't really bother me unless we're hitting enrages and can't get past a fight because of it, but I've learned over the years playing WoW that if a PUG is bad, nothing you say will fix it in time for you to overcome the fight you're currently on.

That being said, parsing in WoW has brought a great deal of joy for me over the years and has also ruined the game for me at points. I understand why they don't want to endorse something like ACT or FFLogs, but why they also allow it as a personal performance enhancing tool so long as you don't attack other people for it.

I will say it is concerning in a raid environment for me where the guild has accepted the usage of ACT but then someone who's raiding Savage gets kicked because their performance isn't up to par. Presumably they could turn around and report the people in the guild which is kinda lame. Wonder if Square has exceptions for situations like that.

[Katchii]

Well you could make an argument that you don't really want to be learning your weaknesses when you get to savage content. So dungeons, alliance raids, and even normal raids having that feedback on your play in different situations is definitely valuable for improving your play. Although this is just a situation where you've gotta know yourself and what you can and can't handle. Low DPS doesn't really bother me unless we're hitting enrages and can't get past a fight because of it, but I've learned over the years playing WoW that if a PUG is bad, nothing you say will fix it in time for you to overcome the fight you're currently on.

That being said, parsing in WoW has brought a great deal of joy for me over the years and has also ruined the game for me at points. I understand why they don't want to endorse something like ACT or FFLogs, but why they also allow it as a personal performance enhancing tool so long as you don't attack other people for it.

I will say it is concerning in a raid environment for me where the guild has accepted the usage of ACT but then someone who's raiding Savage gets kicked because their performance isn't up to par. Presumably they could turn around and report the people in the guild which is kinda lame. Wonder if Square has exceptions for situations like that.

I'd argue that parsing in dungeons, allied raids and normal PuG raids is largely pointless because of how variable the group make-up and performance is and how meaningless the overall performance is (ie good or bad DPS parsing isn't usually what determines if you get the clear). True, you can feel good about pumping out great numbers in a decent group where you're carrying your whole group because they're either undergeared or just underperforming, but so what? I'm not sure that kind of data is relevant to Savage raiding or Extreme clears since the dynamic and expectations of the encounter and group are so vastly different. It would be like trying to get data on your average commute time by parsing your average speed in your car on an empty road in the middle of the night vs on the roads you actually drive day to day during normal hours. The test environment doesn't reflect the actual environment. Parsing yourself on a rough run caused by a bad group where you can't truly perform doesn't help you improve/ doesn't really provide data you can use to critique your performance, it just shows you that you had a bad run with a bad group.

Parsing yourself on a dummy would be helpful, if all you're trying to do is get a handle on your output based on performing your rotation optimally, to ensure you have a complete grasp of your class and understand what tweaks are needed to maximize your output. But this isn't indicative of how you would perform in an encounter where you also need to do mechanics and have phase change timings, etc.. to manage too.

I'd also argue that for the kinds of people who care enough about their performance, parsing in dungeons, etc... is not really all that helpful in improving their performance or grasp of the class or encounters. People like this already typically already know their class well enough to know when they're performing "well." All parsing typically does in this type of content is give them a game to play to see how high they can push their numbers, and show how the other group members are performing. It doesn't usually provide actionable data they can use to improve themselves, and knowing how well or how badly the rest of the group is performing is just FYI type stuff since you can't really broadcast that you know about it or do anything with it in any meaningful sense since ACT is a big no no and people are sensitive about it.

[Granyala]

However, in random dungeon stuff, normal raids, Alliance raids, etc... ("low" end content) it's not necessary and based on what I've heard around this forum it can just be aggravating because now you're acutely aware of every tiny discrepancy in performance between groups.

While it is a double edged sword, I also want it for that.
It is rare that I play a DPS, so I want to see how I perform. That is the most important function of ACT for me.
I hate the feeling of "stuff dies slow, surely I am gimping". I need to see that I am doing okay and there is no way to do that as DPS w/o seeing the numbers.

[Katchii]

While it is a double edged sword, I also want it for that.
It is rare that I play a DPS, so I want to see how I perform. That is the most important function of ACT for me.
I hate the feeling of "stuff dies slow, surely I am gimping". I need to see that I am doing okay and there is no way to do that as DPS w/o seeing the numbers.

Which is totally fine, not at all trying to say otherwise, if you enjoy it and use it have at it. Enjoy your game your way. I've just seen many others who say they find seeing ACT in some groups ruining their day because of how bad other people are, even though they still cleared the content. Having a bad run is always frustrating, but you don't need ACT to know that, but somehow having the hard numbers just makes it worse.

As to the bolded, I disagree somewhat. Sure, from a purely numbers standpoint there's no way to know precisely how well you are or are not doing without them, but if you play enough you get a feel for it. I don't think you need a number to understand whether you're doing your job well or not. If you are comfortable with your job, you know when your performance is lacking based on delays in attacks, casting, not moving out of mechanics, etc... having a parse just tells you by how much.

If you're doing the same thing you've always done in group content, and things were melting before and they're not this time, you know it's not you specifically holding the group back. As I said, it's not precise but I don't think it needs to be. It's more of a pass/fail type thing, which is really all I care about. Am I doing good enough to not be a detriment or not? As satisfying as it would be to see me topping the meters sometimes. I don't really want to deal with all the other stresses that can come with ACT. Pass/fail is fine by me.

[Granyala]

having a parse just tells you by how much.

Exactly. I am a mathematical person. I do not care about feelings that much because they are often deceptive.
Too often had I runs where I thought "that went well" on my SPriest (a class I played for 10 years) only for the numbers to be below average due to stuff I didn't immediately notice while playing.

I don't always run ACT in low end content, because when I heal numbers are irrelevant to me, I only activate it when I feel like it or play DPS.

[The Oblivion]

the care bear shit in ffxiv is honestly the worst part for me. so many players are awful and in content they should never be doing. being able to show them how shit they are is needed. i wish ffxiv would just open up to addons so we can fix the ui, link parses and death logs, and all other benefits. my time > peoples feelings because they suck

[Katchii]

Exactly. I am a mathematical person. I do not care about feelings that much because they are often deceptive.
Too often had I runs where I thought "that went well" on my SPriest (a class I played for 10 years) only for the numbers to be below average due to stuff I didn't immediately notice while playing.

I don't always run ACT in low end content, because when I heal numbers are irrelevant to me, I only activate it when I feel like it or play DPS.

Fair enough, nothing wrong with that, the tool exists, use it for whatever you want. If you enjoy it, use it.

But using your specific example, you would have been fine/content/happy with your performance but seeing the actual numbers made you not so much. You admitted that knowing/seeing the numbers affected your experience negatively, where you would have been fine otherwise.

Take that as you will, not trying to advocate one way to play over the other, just giving more information about the other side of the coin is all.

[The Oblivion]

Fair enough, nothing wrong with that, the tool exists, use it for whatever you want. If you enjoy it, use it.

But using your specific example, you would have been fine/content/happy with your performance but seeing the actual numbers made you not so much. You admitted that knowing/seeing the numbers affected your experience negatively, where you would have been fine otherwise.

Take that as you will, not trying to advocate one way to play over the other, just giving more information about the other side of the coin is all.

ignorance is bliss to some players. for others knowing they are bad, makes them less happy and want to improve. had he not used meters in that run, he would be ignorant to how lacking is damage is.

not everyone is okay being carried just because a boss died while they get dragged long grey parsing.

[Binaris]

Meh, I use ACT in dungeons so that I can see whose playstyle differs from my own. I like to play like I have other relying on me and put forth the effort. Act tells me when someones playstyle does not match that so I know who I can vote to remove based on difference in playstyle.

[Katchii]

the care bear shit in ffxiv is honestly the worst part for me. so many players are awful and in content they should never be doing. being able to show them how shit they are is needed. i wish ffxiv would just open up to addons so we can fix the ui, link parses and death logs, and all other benefits. my time > peoples feelings because they suck

I agree to a point. Wasting other peoples time is never acceptable, but neither is being an asshole over numbers when the numbers aren't going to change the overall outcome, like in MSQ dungeons and trials. You can be critical of others without being an asshole.

When this happens in performance oriented content though, yeah, let them know. People need to live up to the expectations.

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ignorance is bliss to some players. for others knowing they are bad, makes them less happy and want to improve. had he not used meters in that run, he would be ignorant to how lacking is damage is.

not everyone is okay being carried just because a boss died IN SPITE of them.

Not doing your best =/= being carried. There's a pretty profound difference, IMO, to having a "less than average run" and being carried.

[The Oblivion]

I agree to a point. Wasting other peoples time is never acceptable, but neither is being an asshole over numbers when the numbers aren't going to change the overall outcome, like in MSQ dungeons and trials. You can be critical of others without being an asshole.

When this happens in performance oriented content though, yeah, let them know. People need to live up to the expectations.

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Not doing your best =/= being carried. There's a pretty profound difference, IMO, to having a "less than average run" and being carried.

its really only useful in noob content to easily spot afk's and leeches. nothing more.

[Katchii]

Meh, I use ACT in dungeons so that I can see whose playstyle differs from my own. I like to play like I have other relying on me and put forth the effort. Act tells me when someones playstyle does not match that so I know who I can vote to remove based on difference in playstyle.

This is exactly why they don't want meters in the game. "Difference in play style" as you put is not a good enough reason to kick someone, unless they're literally holding the group back from completing the content.