[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Hyral]

To give you an example, the Job I tend to play most is the Summoner. In the latest expansion the Job recieved a slightly different version of the Bahamut summon in the form of Phoenix. The Phoenix version of Dreadwyrm trance is identical, just with another icon. The method you summon Phoenix is identical to how you summon Bahamut. The skills available when Phoenix is summoned are identical to Egi Assault. The Enkindle skill for Phoenix is identical to Ark Morn, the Enkindle summon for Bahamut.

The Scholar, the other Arcanist job, got slightly modified versions of existing skills they've already had for years. Another pet summon that's functionally identical. Another AoE heal that's functionally identical. Another mandatory upgrade to your damage spells. The only ability that's remotely interesting for the Scholar that has been added in the past 2 expansions is Recitation - A cooldown that removes resource costs and forces an auto crit. Even that isn't exactly mindblowing.

They have in all respects, quite litterally, just given me more of the same skills. Nothing new, nothing exciting or different. Just more of the same.

In terms of content, they've added more story. More housing, more cosmetics etc. Nothing that stands out as being new or unique, just more of the same kind of content for the same kinds of player. The games reward structures are identical throughout each expansion. Their patch cycles and content releases are so predictable you can tell which patch is going to have new raids, new dungeons and new MSQ from here until eternity.

Quests and FATES almost exclusively fall into being kill quests or fetch quests. I struggle to think of any content I've done that was anything other.

The game found a comfortable groove to run in and has never even tried to pull itself out and experiment with something different. They just keep adding more and more of the same stuff.

That's fair. An expansion is when you'd expect larger job changes to happen and from what I've heard ShB didn't do much of that compared to the other expacs. I was playing Sch before ShB dropped and what changes they did do were for the worse to me, nothing interesting about slapping the floor during aoe pulls when there's no healing to be done, and the rest didn't seem to change much. Then again I also keep hearing people say Drk plays entirely different now, Mch feels like a new job with all the changes, and Smn and Nin feel almost as new with the adjustments from the patches to make their playstyle better. I don't usually dps and never played Drk before ShB only after so can't comment how true that is. But thank you for the explanation in that regard.

As for the rest yeah, the non raiding content is just fluff. Game is missing more things to do in the overworld. Finding FATEs that connect to another is one of the few cool things I noticed but after three expansions I can see it not having any novelty anymore for an older player. Hunts and Special FATEs would be cool but they are just static and not a new feature. This is a problem every MMO seems to have though and I don't know what could be done, but I guess its their job to find that out.

Also you don't mention raiding so I guess that's not content you care about? It seems to be the main aspect of the game where they do try to experiment with new things but if it's not your thing then it doesn't really matter.

[Onikaroshi]

That's the Catch-22 for developers.

As soon as they do make changes to a job, people flip out and act like the game kicked their dog. (Hell, I've heard people say that there were TOO MANY changes to jobs in ShB. Go figure.)

The formula works, and I'd rather they not change it. Look at wow, most of the changes they've made have just been awful. In FF I can still get BiS, I can still work towards something meaningful, it's not 100% RNG. There's so much I love about the fact that it DOESN'T change drastically every expansion.

Is there some things they could fix? Sure, like server responsiveness and the like obviously.

[Ashleyxoxo]

Any motivation to get me through the slog that is 1-50? I'm new and heard it pays off in the end.

[StrawberryZebra]

Also you don't mention raiding so I guess that's not content you care about? It seems to be the main aspect of the game where they do try to experiment with new things but if it's not your thing then it doesn't really matter.

Not anymore I don't. I did the whole hardcore raiding thing in WoW way back in TBC and WotLK. I'm no longer at a point in my life where I can dedicate the time and effort to raiding that it requires.

I used to queue for the 24 man raid content on occasion, but as someone who didn't enjoy Nier the 24 mans in Shadowbringers aren't appealing or interesting for me anymore.

That's the Catch-22 for developers.

As soon as they do make changes to a job, people flip out and act like the game kicked their dog. (Hell, I've heard people say that there were TOO MANY changes to jobs in ShB. Go figure.)

Both too many and too little changes can be true. Machinist recieved almost a complete overhaul while others recieved nothing noteworthy. I only really play Summoner and Scholar, so I can't comment on what has and hasn't happened for other jobs.

The core of my Job complaints is that nothing has felt like an improvement to my Job for the past couple of expansions. It gets to a point where I get bored of things staying the same. Those issues pale in comparison to all of the other areas I think the game has had for improvement over it's lifespan and has chosen not to take the opportunity.

The formula works, and I'd rather they not change it. Look at wow, most of the changes they've made have just been awful. In FF I can still get BiS, I can still work towards something meaningful, it's not 100% RNG. There's so much I love about the fact that it DOESN'T change drastically every expansion.

Is there some things they could fix? Sure, like server responsiveness and the like obviously.

I on the other hand consider the Raiding gear system they currently use to be something of a disaster. Sure, there's far less RNG than WoW, but that doesn't mean that having to go through multiple item trades in order to get a single upgrade is in any way a good system. For example, trading in Phantasmagoria Tomestones for Mowens Token, then trading Mowens Tokens for a weapon.

Or having to trade Book of Inundation for a Deepshadow Solvent which you can then trade for an upgrade, etc etc

It's a big reason why raiding never had any appeal for me - I can't be bothered showing up to a raid with a flowchart for all the upgrades I can get and the path I need to take.

It's symptomatic of the game as a whole though. Most, if not all, of the secondary systems have a lot of extra steps which aren't required. Like having to manually hand over quest items. Or having to use the bank/AH through a retainer. Or how about having to find a crafter/visit an NPC to insert materia. Or needing to swap your weapon, then equip the crystal before you can change jobs.

I realise those are all minor things - But all those minor inconveniences add up over time.

By far the biggest thing I think they could stand to fix though is the UI. It's both overdesigned and underfuntional. The job gauges for most jobs are the worst way to display information I've seen in a game made in the past decade. You don't have a choice to opt out of using them, they're displaying mandatory information.

The lack of reasonable macro support is another huge issue for me. I've yet to come across any functional mouseover macros in my time playing, and for a game that wants you to cast abilities on your allies while also being able to see what mobs are doing, that's a massive drawback. Ones which should work in theory often misfire if you're using them on an oGCD and the lack of queuing for macros causes all kinds of strange issues. And the amount of errors you get... Ugh.

Then there's a whole host of other smaller UI issues that bother me, like not being able to see your actual ping to the server,

Aaaaanyway, I'm going to leave it there. Hopefully you're seeing my point, even though on a second reading this post sounds far more ranty than I had intended. The TLDR is my issues are less to do with the gameplay and more with the systems surrounding it that could be vastly improved.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Any motivation to get me through the slog that is 1-50? I'm new and heard it pays off in the end.

1-50 isn't the slog. It's the 100 quests you have to do in between 2.0 and 3.0 that is the slog.

I would advise you to take your time. Yes, ARR has a lot of low points, but I found the journey and characters to be enjoyable, and ARR sets up a lot of stuff for the later expansions, including plot points that are coming back today.

Try doing other things over the journey. Try other jobs. Do the Gold Saucer (unlocks at level 15). Do the Crystal Tower raid. Btw, do Crystal Tower (unlocks at level 50) and Warring Triad (level 60) before Shadowbringers.

2.0 really picks up at the level 35 mark. It doesn't become free of low points, but at level 35 I became invested in the story. The post patch quests pick up at 2.3.

[threads]

Finished leveling all my jobs to max about a month ago. Just enjoying a nice break until the patch comes out.

[Granyala]

I don't think this is relevant TBH, at the very least definitely not to me. I know 99.46% of all gaming is strictly a hobby to pass time. I just want to have fun when I log in that's all, but I can't find any fun activities in this game right now barring raiding, and even that got old WAY too quick.

Then you are simply burned out. It happens.
I like FF-XIV and I like their formulaic approach but even I have to take breaks now and then (right now my activity is close to 0 and will stay that way until 5.2 hits).

Yes, raiding can burn you out quickly, esp with encounter design that is very frustrating coupled with an unstable server performance. I decided a few weeks ago that savage was no longer fun and no longer worth the trouble of scheduling my evenings etc.

Changing a game just to please burned out people is risky. You risk alienating the ones like me, that like the current approach.

[Hyral]

Any motivation to get me through the slog that is 1-50? I'm new and heard it pays off in the end.

Going to need more information about you and what you are hoping to get out of the game to answer that. I think it pays off if you are into FF games or RPGs and like following a story while having fun little side things to do. I wouldn't say it pays off if you are like a WoW player only looking for endless grinds and a raid-or-die mentality.

[Ashleyxoxo]

Going to need more information about you and what you are hoping to get out of the game to answer that. I think it pays off if you are into FF games or RPGs and like following a story while having fun little side things to do. I wouldn't say it pays off if you are like a WoW player only looking for endless grinds and a raid-or-die mentality.

I want to do dungeons and raids, don’t care about story.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I want to do dungeons and raids, don’t care about story.

If you just want to do current raiding right now, you can buy on the Mogstation a level 70 boost (called One Hero's Journey) for $25, and a story skip (called Tales of Adventure: Stormblood) for $25, allowing you to skip all story content up to Shadowbringers. If you skip cutscenes, you can complete Shadowbringers in about 15-20 hours, and then you can start raiding current content (Eden savage difficulty, Ultima Ultimate, Bahamut Ultimate, and Alexander Ultimate).

If you don't want to buy boosts or story skips, you can get to Shadowbringers in 60 hours if you skip cutscenes and don't do side content.

For raiding, the most demanded jobs are tanks and healers, ofcourse. Any job can solo the story content, but if you level only a healer, it will go slower because they deal a lot less damage than either DPS or tanks. Thus, if you're going to level a healer, I'd recommend you level a Scholar, as experience is shared with Summoner. You can easily switch to Summoner to do that pesky story content.

[Nasuuna]

If you just want to do current raiding right now, you can buy on the Mogstation a level 70 boost (called One Hero's Journey) for $25, and a story skip (called Tales of Adventure: Stormblood) for $25, allowing you to skip all story content up to Shadowbringers. If you skip cutscenes, you can complete Shadowbringers in about 15-20 hours, and then you can start raiding current content (Eden savage difficulty, Ultima Ultimate, Bahamut Ultimate, and Alexander Ultimate).

If you don't want to buy boosts or story skips, you can get to Shadowbringers in 60 hours if you skip cutscenes and don't do side content.

For raiding, the most demanded jobs are tanks and healers, ofcourse. Any job can solo the story content, but if you level only a healer, it will go slower because they deal a lot less damage than either DPS or tanks. Thus, if you're going to level a healer, I'd recommend you level a Scholar, as experience is shared with Summoner. You can easily switch to Summoner to do that pesky story content.

hard disagree on the healer thing.

They get instant queues for everything all the way to 80.

Tanks can take 5-15 minutes

Don't underestimate how much time save that is.

[Hyral]

I want to do dungeons and raids, don’t care about story.

I don't recommend this game at all. You can't just speed grind your way through the "slog," if you want to buy boosts you will need to get two of them at 25$ each; one for your job level and another to skip the story up to the last expansion, and even after that you will have to do the unlock quests for other dungeons/trials/raids that are not part of the main story the boost covers. It's a Final Fantasy game more than it is an MMO.

[Ashleyxoxo]

I don't recommend this game at all. You can't just speed grind your way through the "slog," if you want to buy boosts you will need to get two of them at 25$ each; one for your job level and another to skip the story up to the last expansion, and even after that you will have to do the unlock quests for other dungeons/trials/raids that are not part of the main story the boost covers. It's a Final Fantasy game more than it is an MMO.

But what I played so far was fun (I'm level 15 now), it's just too long a road!

[Hyral]

But what I played so far was fun (I'm level 15 now), it's just too long a road!

That's strange. But anyway, if that's what you want Val provided a very detailed answer above. Buying the skips is the best alternative.

[Pannonian]

Personally, i bought the skips and i don't regret it. To be more clear, i got my char to 50 and felt burned out by the main story, so i created a new char and boosted that with the idea in mind to go back to the other character to finish the story when i feel like.

Suffice to say, whenver i play FF XIV now i log in with my endgame char and haven't touched my "story char" since then.

[Kazgrel]

They're probably scared of changing what they believe is a "winning formula".

Gripes flare up on Reddit and/or Twitter from time to time regarding "the formula" and until a overwhelming amount of people all go "k done" and unsub, it'll continue this way until they wind down the game (which may or may not happen, who knows).

The blunt truth as to those wanting something different: Different game. Personally, after having had my face caved in for better part of 100 hours by Living Liquid (in TEA), I ended up taking the past 2 months off from raiding and only logged on enough to keep my house and FC submarines going. Gave Path of Exile a good go for a few weeks, brought in the new year with old friends on Halo MCC, and did another round/playthrough on 7 Days to Die.

Some MMO fans are strange in how they expect one single game to occupy their every single moment of spare time for entertainment. Not an issue exclusive to this game or WoW.

[Graeham]

I think the formula works pretty well and the game's continued success is a reflection of that fact. I do have a few gripes - such as the lack of character customisation - but the game does enough to keep me entertained when I play it and I haven't run out of things to do in-game yet.

I quite like that I can take a break and play other games. I'll be doing as much when the remakes of Resident Evil 3 and Final Fantasy 7 come out in April. I agree with Kazela in regards to the suggestion to try out other games.

[Granyala]

Some MMO fans are strange in how they expect one single game to occupy their every single moment of spare time for entertainment. Not an issue exclusive to this game or WoW.

Definitely. Esp the "There always has to be sth to do!" kind, which only ends up in horrible grind systems like Artifact Power.

I always enjoyed the ebb and flow of content/motivation. There are times when I no life with my cat and then there are times when I leave her to her own devices.

Hmm Master Chief collection... I believe my buddy is eyeballing that one too.

[Wrecktangle]

Hm I think it may have a different opinion because I recently just played through the entire game thrice (since I wanted a character on each data center), so maybe I was able to notice the contrast between expansions better. None of them has felt identical. Each one iterates on what worked and then tries new things as the game progresses.

I appreciate your viewpoint and it does offer a unique perspective, but it's not particularly relevant to my point.

Because you experienced everything in one continuous swing everything would naturally feel new and fresh. You also didn't have to deal with most of the side content when it was relevant (as most of it is left to rot once an expansion is over), which is another area that usually suffers from the "same old, same old".

No patch content has felt identical. But I do agree people can pretty much predict when the relevant content will come out. Their release schedule is very clear and consistent, you know which patch Normal Raids are going to come out, which patch the Alliance raids will come out, when the beast tribes will be added, etc. I don't think that's a negative, but it is very predictable. And I can understand if the content added isn't to someone's liking. But identical? I really can't see that having gone through it all in succession.

Like you admit, it's very hard to see it in the manner you experienced it. It's not about being able to predict dungeons, raids, alliance raids, etc. That stuff is annoying, but hardly an issue.

It's the supplementary systems that us being able to predict that sucks. How the relic will be required, what turn ins will look like, how Diadem 1,2, and even 3 (Eureka) will be. How many skills we'll get each expansion, etc. What the raids will look like # of bosses/shape of room and the itemization etc. (Your doom train example was a good counter to that point, but a rare circumstance. In fact I quite enjoyed that fight).

The formula works, and I'd rather they not change it. Look at wow, most of the changes they've made have just been awful. In FF I can still get BiS, I can still work towards something meaningful, it's not 100% RNG. There's so much I love about the fact that it DOESN'T change drastically every expansion.

Is there some things they could fix? Sure, like server responsiveness and the like obviously.

With respect to WoW there are a few changes they made that I did like in BfA. I really did enjoy the essences and leveling them up. It was a fun collectible game that got me into content types I don't play as often to get powers I wanted. I enjoyed that. I also really liked how they added player characters in cutscenes and took a more story driven approach. Clearly a point borrowed from FF14 and a much appreciated one. Their raid design teams had some really cool and innovative fights, Jaina, Mekkatorque, MOTHER, Azshara, etc. Really cool mechanical interactions. Their new AI tech is decent, and I'm excited to see if it gets improved/reused. Islands and Warfronts were by far my biggest let downs. I was expecting Islands to be fun and enjoyable and they were the furthest thing from it. Warfronts even more so. Even the Heroic iterations barely felt like a baseline.

Then you are simply burned out. It happens.
I like FF-XIV and I like their formulaic approach but even I have to take breaks now and then (right now my activity is close to 0 and will stay that way until 5.2 hits).

Yes, raiding can burn you out quickly, esp with encounter design that is very frustrating coupled with an unstable server performance. I decided a few weeks ago that savage was no longer fun and no longer worth the trouble of scheduling my evenings etc.

Changing a game just to please burned out people is risky. You risk alienating the ones like me, that like the current approach.

But am I burned out if I want to actively play? I've gone over this to death I just want a reason to play. Some kind of repeatable challenging content, some kind of reward system that feels meaningful (bear in mind I don't think WoW's is meaningful either). Side content that is actually enjoyable.

If you don't want to buy boosts or story skips, you can get to Shadowbringers in 60 hours if you skip cutscenes and don't do side content.

At work so I can't verify your link, BUT I did want to thank you for at least putting an hourly metric out there. Most people always incorrectly are like oh I got to end game in a week, but neglect to mention they don't have a job and crushed 60 hours of play into a week.

I usually cite 100+ hours, watching cutscenes to get to endgame, so 60 skipping seems reasonable, add in another 10-15 to finish ShB and it fits.

Thanks again.

I think the formula works pretty well and the game's continued success is a reflection of that fact. I do have a few gripes - such as the lack of character customisation - but the game does enough to keep me entertained when I play it and I haven't run out of things to do in-game yet.

I quite like that I can take a break and play other games. I'll be doing as much when the remakes of Resident Evil 3 and Final Fantasy 7 come out in April. I agree with Kazela in regards to the suggestion to try out other games.

I always hate this statement though. Taking a break to play other games should be commonly understood, not hailed as a game feature. Stuff like WoW's AP grind is contradictory to this in the worst way, but stuff like FF14's is too far the other way. I don't want to play all the time, and I don't want to play for 3 weeks every 6 months and be done either. There should be a middle ground.

[Onikaroshi]

With respect to WoW there are a few changes they made that I did like in BfA. I really did enjoy the essences and leveling them up. It was a fun collectible game that got me into content types I don't play as often to get powers I wanted. I enjoyed that. I also really liked how they added player characters in cutscenes and took a more story driven approach. Clearly a point borrowed from FF14 and a much appreciated one. Their raid design teams had some really cool and innovative fights, Jaina, Mekkatorque, MOTHER, Azshara, etc. Really cool mechanical interactions. Their new AI tech is decent, and I'm excited to see if it gets improved/reused. Islands and Warfronts were by far my biggest let downs. I was expecting Islands to be fun and enjoyable and they were the furthest thing from it. Warfronts even more so. Even the Heroic iterations barely felt like a baseline.

Oh, I agree on that no doubt. Especially in regards to raiding, wow has the best raiding on the market imo (I WANT to love FF raiding, but sometimes the floatiness of the server response time really gets to you).

Also... yea, islands and warfronts could have been so much better... hopefully they do Torghast right.