[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[KrayZ33]

okay...

nobody cares about killing 1 mob. if you actually played all the jobs from 1 to 40, you would see how much longer it takes BLM compared to the rest. your opinions dont change reality.

Your reality is twisted by you playing wrong.

you seem to think TTK 1 mob is what determines leveling speed, you are wrong. When leveling BLM is hindered early by mana gates, needing to use a weak ability to use a strong one, no oGCD, downtime, lack of multi mob ability in the world, worthless AA (all casters have this).

TTK for 1 mob is indeed what leveling speed is about. you don't mob up 10 mobs in FFXIV like you'd do in WoW for example. Even then, BLM has superb AoE for dungeons, even early on. You don't need oGCDs, and most classes don't even have one before lvl 30. DRG sure doesn't Even SAM Kenki is no where near on a high enough level before they get the kenki positional increase.

The 3 largest impacts are no oGCD, when you level, you routinely kill a mob with just these, no AA when low level, this is where melee strongly pulls ahead in total time to level, and total time spent casting. BLM will naturally have the most time spent casting of any caster dps, including healers, while they have a low TTK any single mob, when chaining together the slow down increases significantly. Melee have only running down time between mobs, this run time is far less then BLM cast times at low level. None of this even accounts for the fact that when leveling, you will be getting hit from time to time, BLM is the most negatively impacted of any job by this.

Enemy mobs are literally dead by the time you ran up to the mob with a melee class.
You never have to run into Umbral Ice phases when you do leveling in Open world.
Cast time = GCD time btw. It's not like BLM loses *anything* by casting in terms of speed. This too is a fact.

BLM can and will insta gib mobs, the thing is, all jobs do that now. Everyone can instagib world mobs. But all other jobs do it with less cast time, less total cast time, and by using oGCD's.

this is my last reply to you, as you seem to ignore facts. if you dont believe me, i dont care. play every job from 1-30 yourself and time it. BLM WILL be the slowest in total time.

No. Again, BLM Potency is on average higher per cast. Cast time = GCD. Melees don't have considerably faster GCD, melees also don't have oGCDs ready to spam as you make them out to be.

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this just shows you have very little experience. you WILL have downtime. its not a lot, but it does exist.

No. You are just spouting nonsense that isn't true.
Saying anything about "little experience" when you are the one having to level while we don't is just funny.

[Granyala]

this just shows you have very little experience. you WILL have downtime. its not a lot, but it does exist.

Yes, clearly a person that leveled every class in this MMO, both combat and crafter to it's maximum level has "little experience".
How many do I need to level to be counted a veteran? Every class 10x over?!

nobody cares about killing 1 mob.

You still failed to prove your dumb claim and answer the questions of what you do that slows you down so much.
Considering the low amount of quests in this game, you do most of your leveling
1st class: main quest + daily dungeon. MSQ requires very little combat compared to other MMOs.
2nd class: side quests + daily dungeon. A little more combat than the MSQ but still barely anything to grill compared to say, WoW.
3rd class: only dungeons remain. In which the performance of the other players determine your leveling speed.

Also, there is no point in AoE pulling quest mobs in FF, you do not need as many as in WoW. In most quests you go to one location, click the thingy to summon your mob and then move on. By the time you reach your next destination, HP/Mana are regged, even if you are too incompetent to use transpose.

So yes: killing 1 mob is the only relevant metric for open world leveling here and BLM is pretty good at that.

[The Oblivion]

Yes, clearly a person that leveled every class in this MMO, both combat and crafter to it's maximum level has "little experience".
How many do I need to level to be counted a veteran? Every class 10x over?!


You still failed to prove your dumb claim and answer the questions of what you do that slows you down so much.
Considering the low amount of quests in this game, you do most of your leveling
1st class: main quest + daily dungeon. MSQ requires very little combat compared to other MMOs.
2nd class: side quests + daily dungeon. A little more combat than the MSQ but still barely anything to grill compared to say, WoW.
3rd class: only dungeons remain. In which the performance of the other players determine your leveling speed.

Also, there is no point in AoE pulling quest mobs in FF, you do not need as many as in WoW. In most quests you go to one location, click the thingy to summon your mob and then move on. By the time you reach your next destination, HP/Mana are regged, even if you are too incompetent to use transpose.

So yes: killing 1 mob is the only relevant metric for open world leveling here and BLM is pretty good at that.

this just shows you havent leveled anything from 1 to 40 in a long time. inexperience is what you are spouting. if you think killing 1 mob is the metric that matters, there is nothing i can do to help you LMFAO

[KrayZ33]

Where do YOU level?
If it's your second job and not Squadron, instances or PotD, it's not the fastest (in all of them, BLM is stupidly strong, if you ever ran PotD with 2 BLMs as a melee, you would've noticed)
If it's your first job and you are doing MSQ. You *never* pull more than 1 mob, because MSQ quests XP is the fastest way to level and MSQ quests aren't designed like that.

"lmfao"

Granyala gets it.

[Granyala]

there is nothing i can do to help you LMFAO

Likewise.
You go on ahead, playing the game wrong and waaah waah'ing on the forums, while the rest of us uses efficient means to level and get out of the low level drag ASAP.

[StrawberryZebra]

And we are discussing outliers anyway and not a "general problem

We're not "discussing" anything. You're busy asserting that you're right and I've walked away. There's no point me putting the effort into a two way discussion when you've demonstrated that you've got nothing to add but are only interested in "winning" this conversation.

Esp considering that you rarely need to kill more than 3 mobs for a quest.

The issue tends to be that those mobs are spread out, and Black Mages have a somewhat lengthy ramp up period before they get Fire 3. You've got to start again from scratch every mob, and by the time you do get ramped up, things are dead.

It's a very stop/start playstyle, and by the time you get properly started, it's time to stop again.

[Granyala]

Where do YOU level?

Not in FF-XIV, that's for sure, or he would know how few mobs you have to kill in order to clear a zone of side quests.
After that it's FATEs (other players, not in your control) and instanced content (also not in your control).

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The issue tends to be that those mobs are spread out, and Black Mages have a somewhat lengthy ramp up period before they get Fire 3. You've got to start again from scratch every mob, and by the time you do get ramped up, things are dead.

Uuh... lengthy ramp-up? Are you kidding me right now?

BLM gets his second stack of Astral Fire at Lv20. (3rd stack at lv 40)
At lv4 you get Transpose. You can use that to keep up one stack of Ice/Fire indefinitely. So you don't have t start at 0 AND can be in ice while jogging to your next mob, regaining full mana.
So your "long ramp up" is at maximum 1 cast of Fire I.

From Lv 34 on your "ramp up" is one cast of Fire III. It automatically gives you your maximum stacks.

A melee has just as long of a ramp-up, because the first two combo skills typically hit like wet noodles.

Seriously, to say that a BLM is slower in open world content than a tank or a healer is just plain wrong and no matter how much the other guy rages at me, that won't change.

[Nasuuna]

If you're having downtime on a BLM, you're doing it wrong. O_o

Esp considering that you rarely need to kill more than 3 mobs for a quest.

What ARE you doing to level? Mobgrinds?!

hunt log/fates

[KrayZ33]

We're not "discussing" anything. You're busy asserting that you're right and I've walked away. There's no point me putting the effort into a two way discussion when you've demonstrated that you've got nothing to add but are only interested in "winning" this conversation.

But I added my points already that you didn't adress. We seem to disagree. My favorite tooltip design does obviously differ from yours.

The issue tends to be that those mobs are spread out, and Black Mages have a somewhat lengthy ramp up period before they get Fire 3. You've got to start again from scratch every mob, and by the time you do get ramped up, things are dead.

Melees have to get buffs rolling again too, low lvl BLM can transpose non-stop now due to the CD reduce.
You are back to 100% in a single spell on low level. (lvl 20-40)
Only cutscenes destroy that.

[Granyala]

hunt log/fates

Yeah.. okay. If you level that way it'll be an insane drag no matter the class.
XP from both is pretty ..... crap.
Hunt logs are not problematic, too few mobs per sheet (typically 3-5, me thinks) and too spread out to force downtime but if you are soloing FATEs and facetanking as a caster, your HP will force you to rest. Out of combat regeneration is still leaps and bounds better than WoW/s constant eating, esp WoW Classics... ugh. Good thing conjured food has 0 kcal >.<


Now for a more interesting/fun tidbit: A Lv 70 Red Mage can only DPS continuously (and I mean w/o a GCD pause) for 20ish minutes.
After that you have to use lucid dreaming because you're oom. Found that one out during Eureka powergrinding.

[StrawberryZebra]

Seriously, to say that a BLM is slower in open world content than a tank or a healer is just plain wrong and no matter how much the other guy rages at me, that won't change.

I wouldn't say that it's slower than a tank or healer, but it's probably amongst the slowest DPS Jobs. Fire 1 has quite a low potency of 180, and even with Astral Fire it's far from the hardest hitting skill out there. Black Mages strength at lower levels is being able to sustain that higher than average constant damage output over longer periods than other Jobs. However you can't really leverage that strength outside of FATEs where you can just turret cast.

Melee on the other hand have a big bursty finisher with a longer build up. That burstier style works beter for leveling when you just go blow something up in a few hits. Black Mage, and Arcanist too, are left behind because their DPS output is more consistent over the longer term as opposed to being spikey in the short term.

[Granyala]

Melee on the other hand have a big bursty finisher with a longer build up. That burstier style works beter for leveling when you just go blow something up in a few hits. Black Mage, and Arcanist too, are left behind because their DPS output is more consistent over the longer term as opposed to being spikey in the short term.

Sure absolutely, burst is superior, esp when you do not have long cooldowns associated to said burst and can barf everything onto every mob you pull.
Considering how few mobs the game demands you to kill though, I don't see it as a major factor determining actual leveling speed.
Travel and cutscenes will take orders of magnitude more (if we're talking about a new player), making combat opportunities feel pretty sparse. Esp in the later expansion packs. I think I fought only a handful of mobs in the open world in the course of the ShB MSQ. Oo

If you're leveling a second class, daily duty roulettes are by far your best source of efficient xp, followed by non daily runs of your highest available dungeon.
Side quests are barely worth doing, their xp is pathetic (read that in Lahabrea's voice). As for FATEs, no clue, never really leveled with them because I find them boring. Also I am still traumatized from all the relic FATE grinds I did. Brrrr Atma pre nerf.

[KrayZ33]

I don't get it, how does that add up.

Enemies always need X amount of Potency to be killed.
You can do little up front and much later on, but that's still as likely to get into overkill range or needing another GCD (because your first hit was weak) as it is likely to have to use another GCD when you always deal 250 potency. It's just on the other side of the spectrum

And what level range are we discussing, because at 42+ BLM damage gets very spikey on top.

Fire 1 potency is 180 at lvl 1 without astral fire btw.
Astral Fire 1 buffs it to 252 afaik, immediatly (1 cast)

Fire 1 gets 10% potency at lvl 20 (198) and another Astral Fire brings it to 317 potency on every cast at full stacks (1 cast needed - transpose, 2 if it's the first mob in a dungeon).

At 40 it gets another 20% on top (+30% = 234) and another Astral Fire brings it to 421 potency on every cast at full stacks (1-2 casts needed)

At 42 it has a 40% chance for the "next spell" to basically deal 561 potency.
That basically means from lvl 42 onwards, every spell you cast on a mob in your fire phase (which is always in Open World questing) basically deals just about 477 potency on average at that point (except for the first).

That's a very good average pre Stormblood content, even without any oGCDs.

[Wrecktangle]

Damn this game is in desperate need of some new content.

I'm the #1 devils advocate on this forum, and even I can't be bothered to chime in on these topics LOL.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Damn this game is in desperate need of some new content.

I'm the #1 devils advocate on this forum, and even I can't be bothered to chime in on these topics LOL.

What kind of content?

The 5.3 MSQ story will last a few hours. There will be the new Nier raid people will do once to see the ride, and then maybe only do again for some quick catchup or to try to get a glamour set.

Otherwise, unless they do something really drastic, you're not really getting new content that will last, (besides maybe a new Eureka-esque zone for the ShB relics).

[Granyala]

Damn this game is in desperate need of some new content.
I'm the #1 devils advocate on this forum, and even I can't be bothered to chime in on these topics LOL.

Yop, we must be pretty bored if we start arguing about the low level experience.

Anyhow, Finally managed to finish off the Stormblood Eureka relic.

[Ashleyxoxo]

What kind of content?

The 5.3 MSQ story will last a few hours. There will be the new Nier raid people will do once to see the ride, and then maybe only do again for some quick catchup or to try to get a glamour set.

Otherwise, unless they do something really drastic, you're not really getting new content that will last, (besides maybe a new Eureka-esque zone for the ShB relics).

Is WoW the same way?

[Granyala]

Is WoW the same way?

Pretty much, they just obfuscate it better with their "RNG-the gear grind never ends" system.
It's easy to get to the "raid or die" point in WoW. Always has been.

[Wrecktangle]

What kind of content?

The 5.3 MSQ story will last a few hours. There will be the new Nier raid people will do once to see the ride, and then maybe only do again for some quick catchup or to try to get a glamour set.

Otherwise, unless they do something really drastic, you're not really getting new content that will last, (besides maybe a new Eureka-esque zone for the ShB relics).

I was being cheeky. I meant that we desperately need something new to talk about.

Yop, we must be pretty bored if we start arguing about the low level experience.

Lol the low level experience sucks, but I'm not entirely sure putting such a heavy focus on TTK is all that important. It's usually only a factor when either initially doing the MSQ or each expansion. Leveling any other job is typically done through other means. Not only that, it's stupidly easy to fix and normalize if SE wanted too.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Is WoW the same way?

I think WoW has more content in each patch. They add zones in post-expansion patches (whereas in FFXIV, you only get new zones with an expansion box launch). They add a lot of new questlines (in FFXIV, you only get a handful of new questlines added after an expansion box launch, like Hildibrand or the raid questline or the trial questline, and a beast tribe).

That said, FFXIV has a ton of cutscenes for... everything. I don't think WoW would be able to put out as much content as it does if they had to wait on cutscene artists to finish every quest. WoW also releases a new patch every 6 to 9 months, whereas FFXIV is every 3 months. So, in the end, while it feels like WoW patches are bigger, I think that FFXIV feels like you get more content over time.